Currency Exchange Inflation

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Posted by: KumajirouSan.3527

KumajirouSan.3527

So I’ve just gotten myself a self style hair kit with some gold I had lying around. 250 gems cost me 17 gold and 80 silver i believe. Seriously, This is starting to get ridiculous. I play this game all day every day and even I can hardly afford these prices. Imagine a casual player trying to get some of these items, the only choice they would have would be to actually spend real money on it and the entire point of the exchange is so we don’t have to do that. I’d rather spend real money on gems because I want to not because I have to. We need to fix this, obviously nerfing every possible way of making gold isn’t working and we need to try something else. Even if it mean making gold easier to come by and inflating prices slightly it would be better than prices inflating but actual income rate staying low.

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

Why fix something that is not broken?
The system is controlled by the players.
Players clearly prefer to buy stuff for gold rather than real money, thus the prices are getting higher and higher.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Tamaki Revolution.3548

Tamaki Revolution.3548

So I’ve just gotten myself a self style hair kit with some gold I had lying around. 250 gems cost me 17 gold and 80 silver i believe. Seriously, This is starting to get ridiculous. I play this game all day every day and even I can hardly afford these prices. Imagine a casual player trying to get some of these items, the only choice they would have would be to actually spend real money on it and the entire point of the exchange is so we don’t have to do that. I’d rather spend real money on gems because I want to not because I have to. We need to fix this, obviously nerfing every possible way of making gold isn’t working and we need to try something else. Even if it mean making gold easier to come by and inflating prices slightly it would be better than prices inflating but actual income rate staying low.

Why does anyone have to change their hair style? The gold —→ gems exchange is just a perk. This game needs people to spend actual cash on gems.

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Posted by: KumajirouSan.3527

KumajirouSan.3527

Well I just did some research and saw the currency exchange is based on the actual amount of people spending real world money on the gem store, Previously I thought it was relevant to the overall prices of the trading post as I was told it was. So yeah, Let’s change this thread from “why is the currency exchange so expensive” to “why aren’t you throwing your money at arenanet right now?”

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Posted by: Tamaki Revolution.3548

Tamaki Revolution.3548

I wouldn’t go that far :P Now I miss the days when 2.2g or so bought a character slot, but eventually the game needs cash for gems to continue running. I feel bad for new people, but it was inevitable. I wish I had stocked up a lot sooner.

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Posted by: Essence Snow.3194

Essence Snow.3194

It was set up to do exactly what it is doing. It was inevitable that prices would always rise. To ensure that they do promotions and additions are thrown in rapid succession one after another. Ever think you’ll buy gems after the promotion wears off and prices settle back down only to see another on come in on it’s heels and further increase the rate? Yep, that’s on purpose.

Unfortunately this has a negative side effect………detouring new players. There is one thing that any mmo needs and that is a constant influx of new players. Anything that detracts from such (imo) is not a good thing.

Serenity now~Insanity later

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Posted by: azurrei.5691

azurrei.5691

Unfortunately this has a negative side effect………detouring new players. There is one thing that any mmo needs and that is a constant influx of new players. Anything that detracts from such (imo) is not a good thing.

It might deter players that would normally spend gold on gems, not players that would spend $$ on gems – working as intended.

In any event, the only thing that personally interests me in the store atm is the new medium armor set – ill prob grab 2 of those when they are hopefully on sale at Christmas just for use of the s—- skirts for my thieves. All gems bought with gold, of course. (@30-36g/800 1-2 months ago)

(edited by azurrei.5691)

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

250 gems cost me 17 gold and 80 silver i believe. Seriously, This is starting to get ridiculous.

and yet you decided to spend 17.8g to buy those gems. THAT is why it costs so much gold to buy gems – because people are willing to pay it. If you (and everyone else) stopped buying gems for ridiculous prices, the prices would become less ridiculous.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

No if everyone stopped buying the prices will remain the same as long as nobody is also buying gold with gems. The price will stabilize once the two sides of the exchange balance one another in terms of gems.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Essence Snow.3194

Essence Snow.3194

No if everyone stopped buying the prices will remain the same as long as nobody is also buying gold with gems. The price will stabilize once the two sides of the exchange balance one another in terms of gems.

The two sides (buying gems with gold and buying gold with gems) are so lopsided it’s not even funny. So buying gold with gems will never be able to fully balance the ratio. Players buy gems with cash mainly to get items in the store not to convert it to gold. Most of the gems created never enter into the equation, thus their ability to balance the ratio is non-existent.

Serenity now~Insanity later

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

Unfortunately this has a negative side effect………detouring new players. There is one thing that any mmo needs and that is a constant influx of new players. Anything that detracts from such (imo) is not a good thing.

That would however only be the case if gold to gems was a major selling point for the game.
I wouldn’t say that is the case however, it is just a side-note and most people probably don’t even know about it before they buy the game.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Well I just did some research and saw the currency exchange is based on the actual amount of people spending real world money on the gem store, Previously I thought it was relevant to the overall prices of the trading post as I was told it was. So yeah, Let’s change this thread from “why is the currency exchange so expensive” to “why aren’t you throwing your money at arenanet right now?”

Your research is wrong. See below:

3) Gem exchange. Anet offers an alternative to getting Cash Shop currency. You’re allowed to exchange in game Gold for Gems (and vice versa). This is a great option for those who don’t want to spend real money on Gems. The exchange itself is like a big pot for all the servers combined. In it exists both Gold and Gems. The less of one is in the pot, the exchange ratio becomes more expensive for the other. To prevent abuse, there’s a buffer (I think it was 30% difference) in the exchange rates for Gold -> Gems and Gems -> Gold.

Buying Gems with real money doesn’t affect the exchange. It’s when the players who buy the Gems and then convert them for Gold via the exchange.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Essence Snow.3194

Essence Snow.3194

What would be the major selling points in your opinion?

Serenity now~Insanity later

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Unfortunately this has a negative side effect………detouring new players. There is one thing that any mmo needs and that is a constant influx of new players. Anything that detracts from such (imo) is not a good thing.

That would however only be the case if gold to gems was a major selling point for the game.
I wouldn’t say that is the case however, it is just a side-note and most people probably don’t even know about it before they buy the game.

You may have considered it a major selling point, I considered it a footnote. And at no time did they ever say that it would be an “affordable” way to do so.

I have pointed out that those with the mindset to buy gold to buy a precursor or legendary that now it’s 70% cheaper than a year ago. Right now it’s around 4g per $1. And the now nerfed champ farmers are complaining they need gold to boost up their crafting skills to so they can craft their ascended weapons. Well there you go, 4g per $1, what are you waiting for.

I understand, you what to play a game for “free”. Just like TV and movies are “free” and music is “free”. Just buy some gems you cheapskates or ignore the cash shop because the days of “cheap” gems for gold is long gone and isn’t coming back.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: silvermember.8941

silvermember.8941

Unfortunately this has a negative side effect………detouring new players. There is one thing that any mmo needs and that is a constant influx of new players. Anything that detracts from such (imo) is not a good thing.

That would however only be the case if gold to gems was a major selling point for the game.
I wouldn’t say that is the case however, it is just a side-note and most people probably don’t even know about it before they buy the game.

You may have considered it a major selling point, I considered it a footnote. And at no time did they ever say that it would be an “affordable” way to do so.

I have pointed out that those with the mindset to buy gold to buy a precursor or legendary that now it’s 70% cheaper than a year ago. Right now it’s around 4g per $1. And the now nerfed champ farmers are complaining they need gold to boost up their crafting skills to so they can craft their ascended weapons. Well there you go, 4g per $1, what are you waiting for.

I understand, you what to play a game for “free”. Just like TV and movies are “free” and music is “free”. Just buy some gems you cheapskates or ignore the cash shop because the days of “cheap” gems for gold is long gone and isn’t coming back.

As a person who only does gem to gold, cheap gold is so sweet. I am waiting for a time so i can maximize my gem to gold rate.

As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki

This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.

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Posted by: John Smith.4610

John Smith.4610

Next

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

You may have considered it a major selling point, I considered it a footnote. And at no time did they ever say that it would be an “affordable” way to do so.

I have pointed out that those with the mindset to buy gold to buy a precursor or legendary that now it’s 70% cheaper than a year ago. Right now it’s around 4g per $1. And the now nerfed champ farmers are complaining they need gold to boost up their crafting skills to so they can craft their ascended weapons. Well there you go, 4g per $1, what are you waiting for.

I understand, you what to play a game for “free”. Just like TV and movies are “free” and music is “free”. Just buy some gems you cheapskates or ignore the cash shop because the days of “cheap” gems for gold is long gone and isn’t coming back.

Hm?
Was this meant for me, because what I said was more or less exactly the same as you, but with fewer words

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
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Posted by: azurrei.5691

azurrei.5691

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

It is true – it is simply demand for gems vs demand for gold (aka supply of gold vs supply of gems,) which IS controlled by players…BUT Arena Net has control of the direction (new gem store items vs new in game items/reasons for the need for gold in game.)

(edited by azurrei.5691)

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Posted by: Zypher.7609

Zypher.7609

When ever I see posts like this i laugh a little. I love how high the Gold —> Gem has become. Reason being is I will spend an extra 10 minutes at work, to then come home and buy some gems and get around 40 gold at the current exchange. That is the easiest 40 gold/10 minutes I have ever made.

System working as intended.

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Posted by: TooBz.3065

TooBz.3065

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

You tend to answer a lot of questions this way. Almost Socratic (I’d think you were a lawyer if I didn’t know you were an economist).

I wish you would complete the thought, become most of us don’t think in economic terms. Although I’m sure repeating yourself over and over gets old.

Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

You may have considered it a major selling point, I considered it a footnote. And at no time did they ever say that it would be an “affordable” way to do so.

I have pointed out that those with the mindset to buy gold to buy a precursor or legendary that now it’s 70% cheaper than a year ago. Right now it’s around 4g per $1. And the now nerfed champ farmers are complaining they need gold to boost up their crafting skills to so they can craft their ascended weapons. Well there you go, 4g per $1, what are you waiting for.

I understand, you what to play a game for “free”. Just like TV and movies are “free” and music is “free”. Just buy some gems you cheapskates or ignore the cash shop because the days of “cheap” gems for gold is long gone and isn’t coming back.

Hm?
Was this meant for me, because what I said was more or less exactly the same as you, but with fewer words

Only the first part. I never heard ANet advertise the exchange as a feature for casual players.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Alukah.2063

Alukah.2063

You may have considered it a major selling point, I considered it a footnote. And at no time did they ever say that it would be an “affordable” way to do so.

I have pointed out that those with the mindset to buy gold to buy a precursor or legendary that now it’s 70% cheaper than a year ago. Right now it’s around 4g per $1. And the now nerfed champ farmers are complaining they need gold to boost up their crafting skills to so they can craft their ascended weapons. Well there you go, 4g per $1, what are you waiting for.

I understand, you what to play a game for “free”. Just like TV and movies are “free” and music is “free”. Just buy some gems you cheapskates or ignore the cash shop because the days of “cheap” gems for gold is long gone and isn’t coming back.

Hm?
Was this meant for me, because what I said was more or less exactly the same as you, but with fewer words

Only the first part. I never heard ANet advertise the exchange as a feature for casual players.

Key point of the first part of his statement: “if”.

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

Only the first part. I never heard ANet advertise the exchange as a feature for casual players.

Nor have I ever claimed such a thing.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Only the first part. I never heard ANet advertise the exchange as a feature for casual players.

Nor have I ever claimed such a thing.

Oops. Misread it. Sorry.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Vick.6805

Vick.6805

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

Greed.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

Greed.

I would say being cheap.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

It is true – it is simply demand for gems vs demand for gold (aka supply of gold vs supply of gems,) which IS controlled by players…BUT Arena Net has control of the direction (new gem store items vs new in game items/reasons for the need for gold in game.)

No, it’s just demand for gems and demand for gold. Supply is irrelevant for a variety of factors.

And the two aren’t even necessarily linked. If they released an update that massively increased the amount of gems people wanted (like a 1000 gem item that would un-soul bind an soulbound item and allow it to be sold) while simultaneously introducing something that caused a massive increase in the demand for gold (like precursor crafting) you could have a situation where both indices moved in the same direction, as opposed to opposite each other as they would do if they were correlated.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
DnT is Recruiting – http://www.dtguilds.com/

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Posted by: Mourningcry.9428

Mourningcry.9428

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

Quaggan.

Definitely quaggan.

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

You tend to answer a lot of questions this way. Almost Socratic (I’d think you were a lawyer if I didn’t know you were an economist).

I wish you would complete the thought, become most of us don’t think in economic terms. Although I’m sure repeating yourself over and over gets old.

More like a college professor, tossing out hints about something and seeing how quickly someone can complete the thought.

Most of the statements aren’t that hard to figure out, and Anet employees have to be careful about how much they say, especially someone like John who has access to a lot of sensitive info about the way the game works. I suppose it’s just his way of pointing towards the answer without giving away too much info.

In this case the rest of the statement is something to the effect that the exchange rate only indicates how many people are converting gold to gems compared to how quickly other people are converting gems to gold.

Relatively few people buy gems to convert to gold (or have stockpiled them over time and convert them back to gold) because the cost in gold continues to rise. This will not change until people get tired of grinding the game for gold and start buying gems with real money instead. But eventually it will reach the point where the value of gems outweighs the effort needed to grind out the gold for them.

This is entirely intentional, so it is “working as intended.” Buying gems with in-game currency is a bonus, not the original purpose of the cash shop.

(edited by tolunart.2095)

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Posted by: Rouven.7409

Rouven.7409

It simply meant that more people convert gold into gems which would indicate that apparently there is enough gold to go around.

I would be interested in a graph showing the % of players according to the % of gold exchanged. Or at least what kind of function we would see, even though my math is rusty I would google that

“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”

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Posted by: Essence Snow.3194

Essence Snow.3194

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

Let me try this again, hopefully w/o getting infracted this time.

Is that one thing: The desire for players to play for rewards vs directly buying them?

Serenity now~Insanity later

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Posted by: John Smith.4610

Previous

John Smith.4610

Next

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

You tend to answer a lot of questions this way. Almost Socratic (I’d think you were a lawyer if I didn’t know you were an economist).

I wish you would complete the thought, become most of us don’t think in economic terms. Although I’m sure repeating yourself over and over gets old.

I often leave the answer open for others for two reasons:

1. There’s lots of smart people here who know the answers and they should get an opportunity to demonstrate it.

2. It further reinforces the point when some of the community knows and understands what I’m attempting to convey and can demonstrate it without my help.

The answer is the demand for gems vs the demand for gold, but the kicker is only in the subset of players participating in exchanges in each direction.

/nod to azurrei.5691

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Posted by: Vick.6805

Vick.6805

Those two reasons are honestly why your posts often come across as condescending. Just honest feedback on my part, although I’ll likely get infracted for it.

Besides, if you’re going to let your fellow forum-dwelling economists supply the answers, the rest of us who may or may not know anything about economics have no idea which answer to reference unless you chime in.

And, if you’re going to nod at Azurrei, then please read the second half of his/her post and act on it. I think it’s more than obvious how the pendulum has become stuck in drastic favor of the gem store with regard to any balance between in-game item releases vs items released through the gem store.

The over-arching problem may not be the game’s economics, but a problem arises when ANet’s pursuit of real life economics starts to impact its customers negatively.

I don’t begrudge you your profits. I think you have a good product, despite its issues, and you deserve to reap the rewards. But, at this point, I’m starting to wish you had gone with a subscription model so we never had to deal with the gem store.

If you want horizontal (cosmetic) progression, make it balanced between the gem store and the rest of the game. That’s all anyone’s asking for.

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

I have a question for JS:
when designing the gem exchange, did you consider making it more like the rest of the TP instead? where players will list gems for whatever coin price they want, then buyers can do buy orders or buy sell listings like every other commodity in the game?
I guess I’m just curious why that method wasn’t utilized and an entirely different system had to be made for converting gems.
I could see a couple benefits to what I just described, but also a couple problems. biggest problem would be zero starting gems (when the game opened). instead of 20s = 100 gems, the first person would of listed 1 gem = 10g. but that would quickly drop. the main benefit would be how quickly it equilibrates to supply/demand and how transparent it is in terms of functionality.
I am aware that with either system, the current gold → gem price would be about the same

(edited by Mystic.5934)

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Those two reasons are honestly why your posts often come across as condescending. Just honest feedback on my part, although I’ll likely get infracted for it.

Besides, if you’re going to let your fellow forum-dwelling economists supply the answers, the rest of us who may or may not know anything about economics have no idea which answer to reference unless you chime in.

And, if you’re going to nod at Azurrei, then please read the second half of his/her post and act on it. I think it’s more than obvious how the pendulum has become stuck in drastic favor of the gem store with regard to any balance between in-game item releases vs items released through the gem store.

The over-arching problem may not be the game’s economics, but a problem arises when ANet’s pursuit of real life economics starts to impact its customers negatively.

I don’t begrudge you your profits. I think you have a good product, despite its issues, and you deserve to reap the rewards. But, at this point, I’m starting to wish you had gone with a subscription model so we never had to deal with the gem store.

If you want horizontal (cosmetic) progression, make it balanced between the gem store and the rest of the game. That’s all anyone’s asking for.

Please don’t rip John. We actually love it when he goes ham on people.

But in regards to your desires to have more luxury items (aka Gem Shop). All these items are optional. They have no impact on the game itself. They are just for looks. It’s fine that you want more “stuff”. Everyone does. But realize that if you want this “stuff”, you have the option of either paying real money for Gems, or using in game Gold to convert to Gems. There are players here who haven’t spent a single penny on Gems, yet use the exchange to buy what they want in the Gem Store.

As for the economics of the game, all markets are based on these applications. Real world or virtual world. You can’t change the rules for GW2. Otherwise, there’d be no Open Market like the Black Lion Trading Company. Your only options at that point would be either NPC merchants, or direct player to player trading. And since Anet decided to add a mechanic that prevents scams with player to player trades, you have to live with the market as it is.

FYI – It’s fine that not everyone went to school for business, or has an understanding about how economies work. That’s why they hire people like John to make sure the in game market doesn’t die like in other games.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: John Smith.4610

Previous

John Smith.4610

Next

We did consider using the same method for the exchange and TP. I’m not currently at liberty to discuss all our rational, but I will say that we game to the correct conclusion that using a standard trading system would have been a mistake.

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Posted by: Qaelyn.7612

Qaelyn.7612

Actually, I think the biggest problem with unregulated exchange of gems and gold would be price manipulation on a massive scale leading to complaints that would dwarf whatever problems people currently have with item prices on the TP.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

“game to the correct conclusion”? Freudian slip? :p

Attachments:

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

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Posted by: John Smith.4610

Previous

John Smith.4610

“game to the correct conclusion”? Freudian slip? :p

Lol, that’s good enough that I’m not going to edit the mistake

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Posted by: laokoko.7403

laokoko.7403

Anet is probably trying to say buy more gem. Because no one is buying gem, so the price went up.

Probably need to check the NCSOFT Q3 financial report to see if that’s true.

It’s possible to invest(manipulate) the gem price. The problem is the buy and sell price tax is so large. You are probably better of invest(manipulate) other item.

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

The over-arching problem may not be the game’s economics, but a problem arises when ANet’s pursuit of real life economics starts to impact its customers negatively.

Yes, the situation does affect their customers negatively. However, it’s getting better, and they can look forward to the day when the gems they buy are worth a decent amount of in-game gold.

You do realize, of course, that “buying” gems with in-game currency is not putting money in anyone’s pockets, and therefore the concern about it is secondary to those who spend real money on the game. Anet is literally sacrificing their profit potential to give a benefit to those who deliberately refuse to spend money on the game.

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

Anet is probably trying to say buy more gem. Because no one is buying gem, so the price went up.

Probably need to check the NCSOFT Q3 financial report to see if that’s true.

It’s possible to invest(manipulate) the gem price. The problem is the buy and sell price tax is so large. You are probably better of invest(manipulate) other item.

That’s oversimplifying things. People buy many, many gems, as evidenced by previous financial reports that show the game is very profitable. There have been no announcements like “5/10/15 million copies sold!” so it’s pretty obvious this year’s income comes mostly from the cash shop.

However, the exchange is not affected by people buying gems, but by people trading gems for gold, whether they bought these gems with real money or in-game currency is irrelevant. More gems are spent in the shop than are exchanged for gold, removing them from circulation in the same way that buying an item from a vendor removes gold from the game while the TP involves most of the gold going from one player to another.

Yes, you can show a profit by converting gold to gems, holding them for a while, and converting the gems back into gold. But the exchange is deliberately set up to make “currency flipping” costly in the short term, unless you are watching the exchange like a hawk to take advantage of spikes in demand. It’s not a primary strategy for making money in the game, when prices of common items can change drastically within a 24 hour period and provide immediate profit.

(edited by tolunart.2095)

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Posted by: Esplen.3940

Esplen.3940

Yes, you can show a profit by converting gold to gems, holding them for a while, and converting the gems back into gold. But the exchange is deliberately set up to make “currency flipping” costly in the short term, unless you are watching the exchange like a hawk to take advantage of spikes in demand. It’s not a primary strategy for making money in the game, when prices of common items can change drastically within a 24 hour period and provide immediate profit.

This.

With the 30% tax on “flipping” gold, you have to be really patient. So unless you were doing good gold making strategies at the beginning of the game and put all your money into gems, you’re not going to be making that much and can easily make more by playing the Trading Post.

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

It’s actually fairly simple. As the player base matures, we can acquire gold much more quickly (dungeon runs, champ farming, selling in-demand mats) than we could as lower level players. On the other hand, the amount of players willing to buy gems with cash and THEN trade it for gold is unlikely to move much, if at all. (Personally speaking, while I’ve spent about $250 on gems over the past year, all of it was spent buying the stuff I wanted directly from the gem store.)

So now we have an excess of gold and the same amount of gems for sale. What inevitably occurs? Prices for gems goes up.

(edited by Zaxares.5419)

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Posted by: havellian.4073

havellian.4073

High price for gems is a win-win for anet. A higher price will invariably make more people consider buying gems instead of spending gold for cash shop items = profit. For the people still willing to spend gold, they use up more gold on conversion and usually purchase gem store items which are soul bound = greater gold sink.

Win-win for Anet, possibly lose-win for players. Lose because things are more expensive, win because better gold sink = keeps inflation in check

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Posted by: Ensign.2189

Ensign.2189

Currency exchange is just an exchange rate. Everything you’ve learned about exchange rates applies here. Inflation or deflation in one or both of the currency areas is just one of many factors driving the evolution of the equilibrium exchange rate over time.

<walks away in disgust of the past 35 years of paranoid inflation propaganda>

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Posted by: Vick.6805

Vick.6805

Please don’t rip John. We actually love it when he goes ham on people.

You speak for the people that love it, and I’ll speak for the people who hate it.

But in regards to your desires to have more luxury items (aka Gem Shop). All these items are optional. They have no impact on the game itself. They are just for looks.

I see this subjective argument all the time. I’m not sure “no impact” is accurate in a game where the entire endgame is based around cosmetics. If they’re going to advertise a game based around horizontal progression…where is the horizontal progression outside the gem store lately? Or is this game buy-to-play, then buy-to-progress (or, if trading gold, grind-to-progress)? Again, I’d rather pay a subscription and have these rewards be part of the in-game content. I didn’t buy the Home Shopping Network MMO.

It’s fine that you want more “stuff”. Everyone does. But realize that if you want this “stuff”, you have the option of either paying real money for Gems, or using in game Gold to convert to Gems. There are players here who haven’t spent a single penny on Gems, yet use the exchange to buy what they want in the Gem Store.

Making items available outside the gem store rewards all players for being loyal, regardless of whether or not they’ve supported the gem store, since, as you said, the gem store is supposed to be optional. Those players who are not spending RL currency on gems are still contributing in other ways toward keeping the game and its economy alive.

However, my point was more that because of the seemingly insane gold>gem exchange, that option is becoming more and more of a joke. It’s there, but it’s more vestigial than feasible. And, IF players really have that much gold lying around that this exchange rate is somehow acceptable for the average player, then isn’t adding desirable non-gem-store items to the game a good way to drain some of that, too? We have an extensive system of gold sinks in-game, but the one I see being ignored is new in-game non-gem-store items that people would actually want to trade and/or spend gold for.

Also, if everything is for sale directly through the gem store, how is ANet going to offer incentive for new content? Back pieces and masks aren’t going to be acceptable placation rewards for long. Many of us already have piles of them.

FYI – It’s fine that not everyone went to school for business, or has an understanding about how economies work. That’s why they hire people like John to make sure the in game market doesn’t die like in other games.

Yes, I’m aware. My plea was just for less cryptic responses. If I’m already not understanding something or am already frustrated about how the game economy works, having dev responses that make the confusion worse…has a tendency to incite rage. lol

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Posted by: juno.1840

juno.1840

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

You tend to answer a lot of questions this way. Almost Socratic (I’d think you were a lawyer if I didn’t know you were an economist).

I wish you would complete the thought, become most of us don’t think in economic terms. Although I’m sure repeating yourself over and over gets old.

I often leave the answer open for others for two reasons:

1. There’s lots of smart people here who know the answers and they should get an opportunity to demonstrate it.

2. It further reinforces the point when some of the community knows and understands what I’m attempting to convey and can demonstrate it without my help.

The answer is the demand for gems vs the demand for gold, but the kicker is only in the subset of players participating in exchanges in each direction.

/nod to azurrei.5691

Except the exchange rate is controlled to some degree by ANet. I believe this was officially stated shortly after beta and was the driving force which increased prices shortly after release from the lows at 30s per 100 gems.

So I think your original answer should have been “If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only two things..”

EDIT: If this isn’t true, you could always provide an official ANet statement like “ANet does not influence the gold/gem conversion rate”.

Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”

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Posted by: linuxotaku.4731

linuxotaku.4731

The gold to gem rate on the exchange is not a measure of inflation. If you consider how the exchange works and interacts with players you’ll realize that it’s a great measure of only one thing…

While technically true, this is also at best incomplete. Inflation (more gold available to players) will affect the demand curve for gems via gold (i.e. how many gems will be bought via gold at any given price). Increasing the gold : gems ratio will probably make more gems available (people like me, disinterested in farming) — that’s a dampening effect for inflation in the cost of gems, but it’s complicated by other factors (e.g. I’m less happy with where the game is going now, and so I’m spending much less RM).

A big increase in the gold : gem ratio strongly suggests there has been inflation — unless you also have a big reduction in the volume of the gold<→gems exchange market. AFAIK the latter information isn’t public.

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Posted by: Mystic.5934

Mystic.5934

they only influence it so far as to add attractive items for sale in the gem store.
buying gems with gold does benefit Anet, as then gems become more attractive to buy with $$, resulting in more gems bought with $$.

also, what’s up with the conversion rate? every time I buy gems with coin I have to check several prices around the amount I’m looking to spend. This is a theoretical example that illustrates what I have observed:
100g00s00c = 1428 gems
100g05s00c = 1428 gems
100g06s00c = 1426 gems
100g07s00c = 1428 gems
100g08s00c = 1429 gems
100g07s00c = 1428 gems
100g06s00c = 1426 gems
100g08s00c = 1429 gems
100g09s00c = 1428 gems
it’s happened often enough that I convinced myself it’s not just other people buying and selling gems. It’s like there are some magical amounts that give more than the amounts around it, and some amounts that give less. 200g always seems to give about 4 gems more than 199g99s00c…