Does the economy need more gold sinks?

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

Ive got a terrible idea….

For example (these numbers could be adjusted if needed) all gold on an account less than 100 is not taxed. Gold between 100-200 is taxed at 20% gold between 200-300 is taxed 50% and gold greater than 300 is taxed 70%. taxation happens daily at the same time daily quests reset.

Then people will just hoard commodities to avoid this tax.

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: pinkbunnies.4620

pinkbunnies.4620

Then people will just hoard commodities to avoid this tax.

Why? Also the gold will have to be in someone’s pocket and will end up siphoned out of the economy through the tax anyways. Someone’s always going to end up holding the hot potato/without a chair.

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: CassieGold.7460

CassieGold.7460

Then people will just hoard commodities to avoid this tax.

Why? Also the gold will have to be in someone’s pocket and will end up siphoned out of the economy through the tax anyways. Someone’s always going to end up holding the hot potato/without a chair.

In GW1, we used Ecto as currency. In GW2, you would find people using Lodestones as a method of banking wealth.

Tax = Bad…. Sinks are things that people should choose, if you implement a Tax people would rage quit quickly, and the high level community (ie, the wealthy) can have a staggering impact on the game when you start to irk them (watch what happens to lodestone prices when they realize that they have to store their wealth as goods, and buy up the available supply to do so.)

Giving them something to spend their money on, something that encourages them to voluntarily siphon hundreds of gold out of the economy… that’s what a good sink does.

Which is why I go back to expensive armor (like t3), neat weapons (like the cultural weaps, but purchased with coin.) and other cosmetic enhancements…. The suggestion for player housing a while back is another great opportunity for a sink.

LVL 80’s: Thief / Warrior / Guardian / Mesmer

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Lucas of the Desert.2165

Lucas of the Desert.2165

Nah a tax wouldn’t do it people always find other currencies to avoid paying taxes^^ lodestones, ectos, butter, w/e.

What i really question is arenanets choice to implement mystic binding agents… it’s essentially a way to avoid a rather major gold sink —> elonian wine.
Why would they possibly want less gold sinks?? I try to think of a reason but the only thing i can come up with is that they’d like to keep the inflation for a while in game.

This is rather mysterious actually… what if they want to make money a bit less valueable just to implement other gold sinks or lower the drop rates later on. It makes people feel better if the have 400 gold instead of 40g in their bank.

Highly possible that i’m wrong but hey i didn’t understand arenanets need for these high numbers anyway (i’d rather keep my 525 health and my 50 energy :P ele ftw!)

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: bluemonkey.1762

bluemonkey.1762

Vol, you’re argument makes no sense:
You rail against the players “vendoring their greens/blues”
and then state 2 posts later:
“Keep in mind that gold sinks are transactions that take gold out of the economy – not items”.

But the very act of vendoring is what makes items=gold. So picking up any item which can be vendored is equivalent to creating gold in the system. Which is why sensible sinks for trade goods=economic sense. People willing to buy extra trade goods on the AH remove currency via TP fees; the trade goods disappear from the system without further economic benefit to the player; raising prices & motivating gatherers (while simultaneously annoying crafters). On the other hand, straight out gold sinks have a more distributed effect on the economy.

The mystic forge can be a gold sink depending on how players choose to interact with it. But maybe more importantly, it creates a limit on the relationship in prices between items of differing quality. For example, as long as lvl 80 greens→yellows at a predictable rate in the mystic forge, the price on the yellows cannot freely float much higher than that of the underlying greens. In this way, the price on individual yellows could be “gamed” higher, but the average price could not be forced higher without raising the average price on the green items across the board. And to do that would require a heck of a lot more money than any cartel is likely to put into it. But what if they did? The less fabulously wealthy sell their greens for gold; spending the gold elsewhere & use Karma/Laurels/Badges to buy rares & exotics.

Besides, if you have so much gold that you don’t know what to do with it, you probably have too much free time. Who’s got 6 characters with 12 legendaries? mmmm didn’t think so. AreaNet has lots of time to figure out what to do about that…

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: laharl.8435

laharl.8435

I personally would like to see more gold sinks, karma sinks and every currency in the game with more sinks. I want to be flooded with options, especially vanity options. More stat combinations or proc options would be nice as well. More variety! Not that there isn’t a good amount of it now, but I would like even more quality options.

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Goloith.6349

Goloith.6349

To the OP, there is plenty of gold sink, but the problem is that there is not enough low-end material sinks. It’s obvious that there is plenty of high-end material sinks with exotic/ascended/legendary, but no not enough low end to make the economy work for the other 90% of the player base that is not a TP god.

So this would be my suggestion:
1.) Remove the ability to repair from an NPC
2.) Convert all repair canisters to repair kits.
3.) Make Repair Kits craft-able by all professions except Chief (they already have great consumables) and make the kits crafted by each profession the same, don’t make it so that only Armorsmith’s kits can repair armor. – People are already short on space the way it is.
4.) Make these kits craft-able with lower tier materials. DO NOT include teir 6 materials, there is already an incredible amount of demand and will only feed the TP gods.

This will allow the average person to make some if they put the effort in. Right now those who have the big pockets can basically bar new entries to the trading post.

Don’t get me wrong, the rich will probably get richer, but so will the average person.

i7 920 OC 4.2Ghz, 2x 6970s in Eyefinity mode
Davidah (Guardian) Goloith (Engineer)
Achuni (Mesmer) Doreanora (Thief)

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: marnick.4305

marnick.4305

3) Armor repair and waypoint costs, though I feel those are trivial…

This one sinks the most of all. It is not trivial in volume.

If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: CassieGold.7460

CassieGold.7460

3) Armor repair and waypoint costs, though I feel those are trivial…

This one sinks the most of all. It is not trivial in volume.

Here’s why I say trivial:

  1. You only pay armor repair when you die…. on average, I pay armor repair once every few days…. the experienced end of the community, that tend to ammass the most wealth, are impacted the least by this sink.
  1. If you pay 3s to WP to a faucet that grants 50s, is the WP sink significant? It slows your gain from the faucets, but not significantly. Best example: I WP from Orr to HotW, costs me 4s, and the dungeon grants 65s+ in pure coin rewards (boss kills + dungeon reward.) The 4s is not significant compared to the resultant income, and that excludes any income from drops.

Armor repair and WP costs tend to keep a broad swath of the community in check, and there is balance at that end of the economy. The place that I feel we need more sinks is at the higher end of the economy, because Luxury goods are moving further in price away from the ‘average man’ income / wealth level…. and a lack of sinks at the high end allows that gap to widen, creating a barrier to market entry.

Make sense?

LVL 80’s: Thief / Warrior / Guardian / Mesmer

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

3) Armor repair and waypoint costs, though I feel those are trivial…

This one sinks the most of all. It is not trivial in volume.

Here’s why I say trivial:

  1. You only pay armor repair when you die…. on average, I pay armor repair once every few days.

Outrageous claims like “I never die” are unrealistic and make me think that you never play!

  1. If you pay 3s to WP to a faucet that grants 50s, is the WP sink significant? It slows your gain from the faucets, but not significantly. Best example: I WP from Orr to HotW, costs me 4s, and the dungeon grants 65s+ in pure coin rewards (boss kills + dungeon reward.) The 4s is not significant

Simply wrong.

The place that I feel we need more sinks is at the higher end of the economy, because Luxury goods are moving further in price away from the ‘average man’ income / wealth level…. and a lack of sinks at the high end allows that gap to widen, creating a barrier to market entry.

Make sense?

This does make sense. It sounds an awful lot like real life, too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18944097

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

I don’t think any ne here is in a position to say which sinks are trivial and which aren’t. No one has the data.

But going from purely anecdotal evidence though, I’d say the amount of money I spend on sinks is as follows:

1. TP
2. WPs
3. Salvage Kits
4. Repairs

PS @ Svarty, it’s anecdotal evidence. It’s pretty silly to call it outrageous, unless you’ve played with him? It is very possible to not die very frequently, you know.

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: CassieGold.7460

CassieGold.7460

3) Armor repair and waypoint costs, though I feel those are trivial…

This one sinks the most of all. It is not trivial in volume.

Here’s why I say trivial:

  1. You only pay armor repair when you die…. on average, I pay armor repair once every few days.

Outrageous claims like “I never die” are unrealistic and make me think that you never play!

  1. If you pay 3s to WP to a faucet that grants 50s, is the WP sink significant? It slows your gain from the faucets, but not significantly. Best example: I WP from Orr to HotW, costs me 4s, and the dungeon grants 65s+ in pure coin rewards (boss kills + dungeon reward.) The 4s is not significant

Simply wrong.

Okay, how about this then: if the WP cost to reach a faucet is 4s and the income from the faucet exceeds 40s (which it does) then the WP cost is a sink of less than 10%, making it less of a sink than the TP fees which hit at 15%. Arguably, return from a single dungeon path (just vendor the blues / greens) can approach 90s w/o rare drops, at which point, your WP cost is less than 5% the return from the faucet.

As to ‘never die’ claims…. I run dungeons with a static guild group, people going down hard on runs we know well is rare. I tend to hammer out daily events etc in queensdale, or Orr, and again, rarely have problems. Most of the time, if I’m going all the way to defeated, it’s while pugging, or on weekends when the guild group is pushing harder content… my M-F gameplay tends to be low risk, 1-2 dungeon paths, + 30ish minutes on a random map working on daily or map completion. Maybe that’s ‘never playing’ and maybe it’s not. Your mileage may vary based on your gameplay methods.

LVL 80’s: Thief / Warrior / Guardian / Mesmer

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Death Reincarnated.3570

Death Reincarnated.3570

Many of the general gameplay sinks (i.e. Repairs, Salvage Kits, WP’s etc.) can be offset, and concurently made insignificant, by playing the game. This is not a hard task and why the prices of the sinks are what they are.

Proud member of Legion of Honour XIII

Do not click this link!

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Goloith.6349

Goloith.6349

Seriously guys/gals, if ANET really wanted to have a player driven economy they would be utilizing crafting materials from all tiers for legendaries to obtain them. Think about EVE’s Titans, not many people have them, but it requires a ton of Titanium (low end material) to build one. ANET wants people in low end zones, there’s your answer.

i7 920 OC 4.2Ghz, 2x 6970s in Eyefinity mode
Davidah (Guardian) Goloith (Engineer)
Achuni (Mesmer) Doreanora (Thief)

Does the economy need more gold sinks?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: CassieGold.7460

CassieGold.7460

Seriously guys/gals, if ANET really wanted to have a player driven economy they would be utilizing crafting materials from all tiers for legendaries to obtain them. Think about EVE’s Titans, not many people have them, but it requires a ton of Titanium (low end material) to build one. ANET wants people in low end zones, there’s your answer.

Like the Gift of Metal and Gift of Wood?

Only problem with this is: currently the legendary market appeals to too small a segment of the community.

More high end exotics that used the Gift of Metal / Gift of Wood would help drive this kind of demand…. but, that wouldn’t create a sink, it would just increase the value of raw materials in the trade of such materials.

LVL 80’s: Thief / Warrior / Guardian / Mesmer