Guild Wars 2

ok i have just witnessed a serious market crash on the price of dusk. today at 11:58P PST all of dusk has sold out and then 1 dusk has appeared on the market and caused a serious problem. i have just witnessed a market monopoly. how and who and why is this happening. and also when will our beloved crafting to 500 will come out to actually help with this serious market crash imagine all the precursers sold out.

It won’t last. Give it a few hours.

Noones gonna buy it, because its such an obvious super spike on the price.

You’re an idiot to buy it at the price, or expect it to sell at the price all of a sudden.

Yep. People have tried to corner the market on Precursors before. All have failed. Just give it time.

says one thing.
Nobody playing the game normally would be able to even attempt to monopolize precursors …

The fact that someone is attempting suggests TP flipping rewards are breaking the game.

TP Flipping. It’s basically PvP. Except there are no teams and you can attack people who didn’t even realize they were playing.

I don’t think you understand what the definition of the word “monopoly” is….

About 10 Dusks gets traded in a day. Give it a few hours and it’ll get undercut.

also except thee fact that rewards 10X to 1000X comparing to the rest of the game…
And this applied to a MINOR aspect of the game.

And what happens in the rest of the game when something is too rewarding?
Seems only TP have been saved from balancing….

Well this is indeed a bad sign…

Dusk prices will escalate a little further. All market items, specially those high priced and with low supply when immensely overpriced, it stabilizes a little higher than it was previously.

Example:

Dusk Market :Old Price 700g
Player A: “It’s a high value, let me wait a little longer to see if it decreases a little”
Dusk Market :Spikes to 1000g
Player A: “kitten, it spiked to 1k gold… If i only bought it @ 700g”
Dusk Market :Starts reducing as no1 will pay 1000g.
Player A: “I’ll better buy it fast, or it might spike again and i have to spend even more gold” – Spent 800g for dusk…

The willingness to pay higher for the Dusk will increase due to a item market spike. Always!

Some illegal market prices do just this. The item worth 10, someone spike it to 50 and set others to 25 to create that sense of sale/discount/bargain… A sneaky move…

/cheers

Creating a monopoly = ban. kkthxbye arenanet

Onkelbubu.3108:

Creating a monopoly = ban. kkthxbye arenanet

since when?
afaik they are even defeinding that sort of behavior.

There is a reason if after 1 year, tp flippers are the only to do sums of gold that no other player can ever dream to do in 3X the time.

Same thing is happening with The Legend?

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29180

Ursan.7846:

I don’t think you understand what the definition of the word “monopoly” is….

About 10 Dusks gets traded in a day. Give it a few hours and it’ll get undercut.

Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service and a lack of viable substitute goods.³ The verb “monopolize” refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge high prices.

ok by having this 1 or more guys working as a team they buy out all the Dusks aka goods. (ya lots of gold) and what happens is that one guy or team of guys have what i call Market Control. because no one has the goods they are able to sell their goods at whatever price they want. lets just say the avrage of what they bought dusk at was 715g. and what this team can do is sell a few of his dusks and under cut them selves bringing down their first asking price of 999G to about last sellor price of 950G and we all know about the listing fea of 5% and agine at 10% when his items sells. and there for causing a “Bargon” to happen witch makes players feel that hay the price is droping to the point where i would buy it at 800g. thank you LHound.8964 for the post about sneaky move. so here is a break down off how they can profit from crashing and monopolizing the market of Gw2.

950G > 47G 50S 00C taken right as he puts a sell price
902G 50S 00C _> is whats left over.
10% selling fea> 90G 25S 00C
Total sell is 812G 25S 00C

avrage buy order
715G

Sold
812G 25S 00C

total Profit
97G 25S 00C

and who knows if it Keeps under cutting a lot they may just as well go and buy out all the Dusks agine and cause havic agine to the market.

(I hope my Math is correct in not math Wizz or Shakespear with english)

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Same thing is happening with The Legend?

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29180

yeap Merket control. and a full blown monopoly is happening.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Noones gonna buy it, because its such an obvious super spike on the price.

You’re an idiot to buy it at the price, or expect it to sell at the price all of a sudden.

Failed? Lol.. The market has been controlled by people for months;)

just do what they did on runescape

have anet set min max prices of items and let ppl set prices within th emin max prices of items.

tada economy is saved and players can once againa fford things that should never of been overpriced by 150% in the first place.

screw TP flippers they ruin economys

krixis.9538:

just do what they did on runescape

have anet set min max prices of items and let ppl set prices within th emin max prices of items.

tada economy is saved and players can once againa fford things that should never of been overpriced by 150% in the first place.

screw TP flippers they ruin economys

Setting Minimum and Maximum prices is not a good thing. The regulators (in this case ANet in the form of John Smith and John smith’s minions) can’t define how the price should flow, it simply removes all the economic parameters like speculation from the equation.

Now what they could do, is like a regulator should do, set a penalty for those who are abusing the system (market manipulation is punishable by law) and setting higher taxes for those who pass trough a certain amount of gold/profit. This is how it should be. With taxes being higher as the selling price increases (adjusted also trough inflation), there will be a point where the gain is maximum. This way the prices will tend to the optimum maximum profit value, instead of spiking up everyday!

Market regulations is a delicate subject, specially with the operation being done, stealthed by the game’s client and locked into the servers database. Some kind of more intense monitoring of the market should be done, to reduce the TP schemes…

/cheers

Runescape. Isn’t that the game where two kids forced another kid, on threat of extreme violence and death, to hand over his virtual items to them?

Found it, it is:

http://www.virtualpolicy.net/runescape-theft-dutch-supreme-court-decision.html

I just went out and read something about the runescape economy. Min/maxing 1) puts Anet in control of the price of items; 2) some items are not sold on the TP because people are not willing to pay the price minimum; 3) will drive players to mail buying for max items that can be sold above the max (because players are willing to pay more than the max price). Which leads to abuse, as the superrare items are now in the banks of the rich few, rather than on the TP for all to see and to buy.

No thanks.

Just so you know, attempting to control the Precursor market will result in MASSIVE financial losses.

If you are looking to buy Dusk, put in a buy offer or check back later. The guy who is trying to spike the price will be bankrupt soon if he keeps it up.

GW1 had a max price of 100k and the only thing it did was remove a lot of items from the market. Price control doesn’t work. The very first successful communist Lenin found out the harsh way and was practically forced to reintroduce capitalism. Stalin removed that again and single handedly created the holodomor. Mao managed to have millions die in the Great leap Forward.

Price control does not work.

No one in their right mind would pay +1000g for Dusk.

+1000g for new legendary precursors? You bet.

Trying to control the precursor market is unbelievably stupid. With craftable precursors coming in the near future, and new precursors dropping each day from the constant zergs anyway, it’s basically asking to lose all your money.

PS. This is NOT a monopoly. It’s still an open market, meaning anyone could come and undercut them by however much they want, meaning they’ll have to either keep buying out the competition or keep re-listing their stock. Either way they lose colossal amounts of money.

He could make some small profit margin if players are stupid enough, but then again people that want to buy precursor has been following that market for a long time and know the reasonable price it goes for.

A monopoly only really works if there isn’t strong competition in that market to be able to stop you. However since new Precursors are create out of thin air everyday in the form of loot and mystic forge rewards its impossible to truly monopolize that market. Sure you might be able to sell 1 or 2 at an exceedingly high price, but you are left with a fair amount of that precursor and the long term value won’t be a huge increase, likely not enough to cover the 15% fee. Also since it has been announced that a more control-able way to get precursors is coming they will likely take a fairly large value hit when that happens.

gaspara.4079:

A monopoly only really works if there isn’t strong competition in that market to be able to stop you. However since new Precursors are create out of thin air everyday in the form of loot and mystic forge rewards its impossible to truly monopolize that market. Sure you might be able to sell 1 or 2 at an exceedingly high price, but you are left with a fair amount of that precursor and the long term value won’t be a huge increase, likely not enough to cover the 15% fee. Also since it has been announced that a more control-able way to get precursors is coming they will likely take a fairly large value hit when that happens.

Well, to be truly honest. If you are able to control a large portion of the market share (e.g. 80%). You can pretty much operate as a monopoly, don’t get the wrong ideas guys. This buyer will have a monopoly for a short period of time.

I already know the reason why he is doing it, gutsy move nonetheless.

PMilkos.9103:

Trying to control the precursor market is unbelievably stupid. With craftable precursors coming in the near future, and new precursors dropping each day from the constant zergs anyway, it’s basically asking to lose all your money.

Not entirely. If the new precursors to new legendaries cannot be acquired through mystic forging, the “old series” precursors might actually go up in price as less people will try to forge them (leading to a smaller supply, leading to increased prices). And since zerging will likely come to a moderate halt September 3rd, this will drain another supply line for “old series” precursors.

Vol.5241:

No one in their right mind would pay +1000g for Dusk.

+1000g for new legendary precursors? You bet.

I think you are underestimating the mindless zerg farmers who made 1000+g from the gauntlet and other farms.

I’m afraid this will probably be the new price point due to the massive gold inflation we have seen this past month. Due to the low volume and high demand for precursors they will inevitably be hit hardest by the inflation.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vol.5241:

No one in their right mind would pay +1000g for Dusk.

+1000g for new legendary precursors? You bet.

I think you are underestimating the mindless zerg farmers who made 1000+g from the gauntlet and other farms.

I’m afraid this will probably be the new price point due to the massive gold inflation we have seen this past month. Due to the low volume and high demand for precursors they will inevitably be hit hardest by the inflation.

I call BS, and you are prob the one who bought them all or scaremongering.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vol.5241:

No one in their right mind would pay +1000g for Dusk.

+1000g for new legendary precursors? You bet.

I think you are underestimating the mindless zerg farmers who made 1000+g from the gauntlet and other farms.

I’m afraid this will probably be the new price point due to the massive gold inflation we have seen this past month. Due to the low volume and high demand for precursors they will inevitably be hit hardest by the inflation.

If that were the case the precursors would have risen immediately or shortly after the gauntlet got nerfed.

The only reason why we are seeing these huge prices is because of speculators. Why do you think they all rose overnight?

Because of the legendary skin rechanges.

Though I doubt Bifrost and Sunrise get changed.

Footsteps (in the form of a trail of new krytan words) to the shield please. Or pages flying around while running.

Vol.5241:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vol.5241:

No one in their right mind would pay +1000g for Dusk.

+1000g for new legendary precursors? You bet.

I think you are underestimating the mindless zerg farmers who made 1000+g from the gauntlet and other farms.

I’m afraid this will probably be the new price point due to the massive gold inflation we have seen this past month. Due to the low volume and high demand for precursors they will inevitably be hit hardest by the inflation.

If that were the case the precursors would have risen immediately or shortly after the gauntlet got nerfed.

The only reason why we are seeing these huge prices is because of speculators. Why do you think they all rose overnight?

Because of the legendary skin rechanges.

Though I doubt Bifrost and Sunrise get changed.

A lot of people made good amount of gold and materials throughout the gauntlet and are now able to craft a legendary, so more people need precursers => prices rise.
Best example is zap

Vol.5241:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vol.5241:

No one in their right mind would pay +1000g for Dusk.

+1000g for new legendary precursors? You bet.

I think you are underestimating the mindless zerg farmers who made 1000+g from the gauntlet and other farms.

I’m afraid this will probably be the new price point due to the massive gold inflation we have seen this past month. Due to the low volume and high demand for precursors they will inevitably be hit hardest by the inflation.

If that were the case the precursors would have risen immediately or shortly after the gauntlet got nerfed.

The only reason why we are seeing these huge prices is because of speculators. Why do you think they all rose overnight?

Because of the legendary skin rechanges.

Though I doubt Bifrost and Sunrise get changed.

They have been rising ever since the start of the gauntlet patch.

Dusk is up 100g since pre-gauntlet.
Dawn is up 60g
Zap is up 130g
Spark is up 60g
…
so on and so forth.

And that is just on the buy orders. The sell order have risen even faster.

I agree this last price spike is from speculators, but the rise has been happening over this whole month due to the insane amount of gold entering the market.

Now on the website:

“Legendary Weapon Updates. Legendary weapons are getting a stat boost and an Offensive Infusion slot to align with the new Ascended weapons! Legendaries are also receiving additional functionality: When out of combat, Legendary weapon bearers will be able to choose between different stat combinations for your weapon. And to top it all off, many Legendaries are getting some aesthetic upgrades!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/september-03-2013/

Kenage Achalarus.4276:

Ursan.7846:

I don’t think you understand what the definition of the word “monopoly” is….

About 10 Dusks gets traded in a day. Give it a few hours and it’ll get undercut.

Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service and a lack of viable substitute goods.³ The verb “monopolize” refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge high prices.

You are absolutely correct on the definition of a monopoly. However, it doesn’t apply here.

Whoever listed that Dusk for 999G though has absolutely no way to control the supply of Dusk. And 10 Dusks per 24 hours does get created in someway.

As long as he has no way to control incoming supply, there is no monopoly

See attached. The two Dusks listed at 999G are still there, and undercut 6 times.

I feel bad for whoever was silly enough to list them at 999G.

Ursan.7846:

Kenage Achalarus.4276:

Ursan.7846:

I don’t think you understand what the definition of the word “monopoly” is….

About 10 Dusks gets traded in a day. Give it a few hours and it’ll get undercut.

Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service and a lack of viable substitute goods.³ The verb “monopolize” refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge high prices.

You are absolutely correct on the definition of a monopoly. However, it doesn’t apply here.

Whoever listed that Dusk for 999G though has absolutely no way to control the supply of Dusk. And 10 Dusks per 24 hours does get created in someway.

As long as he has no way to control incoming supply, there is no monopoly

See attached. The two Dusks listed at 999G are still there, and undercut 6 times.

I feel bad for whoever was silly enough to list them at 999G.

I think you fail to see the point. Some people have the gold just to be kittens…someone wanted to drive up the price of precursors, someone may have succeeded…if prices stay between 700-800 gold…they have succeeded…

…or they probably have inside info on what it will cost to craft precursors and are trying to set the price of precursors to match it

I bet on the latter, because we all know how good Anet is at leaking info to the right people…

And why the kitten would you feel bad for some rich TP trader trying to manipulate the market by pricing the item at 999g? Trust me…that is peanuts to him.

LordByron.8369:

also except thee fact that rewards 10X to 1000X comparing to the rest of the game…
And this applied to a MINOR aspect of the game.

And what happens in the rest of the game when something is too rewarding?
Seems only TP have been saved from balancing….

That’s because GW2 hired a free market economist to run the economy. He enjoys watching the trading post and believes that it’s good for the game. For example, because you can save up and buy a precursors, the precursor drop rate can be very, very, very, very, very low.

Of course what this misses is the idea that the game is not suppose to be a market simulation, but is suppose to be fun. Complaining is pointless and hopeless, ANet will continue to believe this is a good thing until the day everyone quits in disgust.

Buying up all the Dusks that just happened to be up on the TP at that moment and buying out all the Dusks that are being held in reserve off TP to be posted if the price were higher are two totally separate things. And that’s not counting the new Dusks entering play every single day. Add in picking a price blatantly above the average cost to generate a Dusk by brute-force via the Mystic Forge and this little ride is going to come to a grizzly, hilarious end.

This attempt doesn’t have even a fraction of the deep pockets required – there was no concerted countermove to eliminate the half-dozen undercuts that showed up almost immediately. Sure, today is not a great day to be a buyer, but its a fabulous day to watch fools get parted from their money – and I mean seller fools.

“Controlling” the market for 20 minutes and making 0 actual sales at your ransom-rate isn’t controlling the market AT ALL.

Apparently some one or a group of some sort is trying very hard to control the price of few items on the TP.
It will never work in their favor, look at what happen to Genesis, try to control the market and place 39 of them at 220g, only took a week for the price to drop back to normal and that 39 Genesis is still there.

Buttercup.5871:

Now on the website:

“Legendary Weapon Updates. Legendary weapons are getting a stat boost and an Offensive Infusion slot to align with the new Ascended weapons! Legendaries are also receiving additional functionality: When out of combat, Legendary weapon bearers will be able to choose between different stat combinations for your weapon. And to top it all off, many Legendaries are getting some aesthetic upgrades!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/september-03-2013/

Have to wonder what will happen to all those Sigils installed in Legendary weapons that will no longer have a slot for them… and to all the builds that get FAR more out of the effects of a well chosen sigil than they ever will out of an offensive infusion…

Nike.2631:

Buttercup.5871:

Now on the website:

“Legendary Weapon Updates. Legendary weapons are getting a stat boost and an Offensive Infusion slot to align with the new Ascended weapons! Legendaries are also receiving additional functionality: When out of combat, Legendary weapon bearers will be able to choose between different stat combinations for your weapon. And to top it all off, many Legendaries are getting some aesthetic upgrades!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/september-03-2013/

Have to wonder what will happen to all those Sigils installed in Legendary weapons that will no longer have a slot for them… and to all the builds that get FAR more out of the effects of a well chosen sigil than they ever will out of an offensive infusion…

sigils are not going away… I wish people would stop spreading that ridiculous rumor.

Sigils are not going away, but it’s not a given that they slot into ascended gear either.

Nike.2631:

Sigils are not going away, but it’s not a given that they slot into ascended gear either.

I would think that is it a given, since removing their slot would make Ascended gear dramatically inferior to Exotics.

HaHa

^ Gosh I wish I could get a straight up and down response like that when I ask the rest of Anet an even simpler question like “Are Vet Subjugators SUPPOSED to be casting 6 super wells at a time directly on a Non-Rezzable NPCs??”… Or when DM attempters are asking “Are all those spiders in TAFU not SUPPOSED to despawn?” …and You guys even get Hard numbers on top… You market guys are so spoiled

John Smith.4610:

Hey all, I pulled the data (again) on dusk sales for the last 2.5 days. This shows the quantity of unique buyers and sellers and dusks:

I think it may be a bit premature to start panicking.

Thanks, Mr. Smith.

What would be interesting would be to see the transactions ploted vs. time.

Can’t hurt to hope

John Smith.4610:

Hey all, I pulled the data (again) on dusk sales for the last 2.5 days. This shows the quantity of unique buyers and sellers and dusks:

I think it may be a bit premature to start panicking.

lol, now people will be panic buy…. all unique buyers. and then we will have a huge discussion on inflation

John Smith.4610:

Hey all, I pulled the data (again) on dusk sales for the last 2.5 days. This shows the quantity of unique buyers and sellers and dusks:

I think it may be a bit premature to start panicking.

Whoa, this is a lot more Dusks sold than the 10/day figure you gave us a while ago.

Can you explain the difference between the buyer/seller/sold columns? Thanks!

I think it’s safe to assume that the chart for Day 25 and 26 would indicate that a handful of players sold multiple Dusks to unique buyers. That’s far from being able to “control” the market. As for the Legend, looks like it’s one seller per buyer.

I can only conclude that a few players panicked on news about Legendary weapon upgrades, and went out and bought Dusks. This move was just speculation that the prices would skyrocket. It happens in the real world markets too.

So here’s a question for you market Geniuses….

Everytime I’ve found a Rare Greatsword and sold it on the Market, it was 10s over the price of an Ecto. Do you think that has anything to do with the precursor’s mysterious supply rates? There’d have to be SOME kind of correlation for someone or someones to be going through that many of them when they could be crafting more themselves for less upfront investment. What could possibly explain that volume being so high? Some kind of tear in the RNG Mystic Toilet continuum?