Guild Wars 2

Ok…I -tried- to give the system some leeway and put myself in it, I tried, hard. I really did people. But…this is insane.

some of the things are way too expensive, just look at the cost of say, Iron shield parts, I caught one Iron shield part worth -more- than the darksteel equivalent. What kind of sense does that make?!

Heres my problem, the way it stands a lot of the items that peopel would even go tot he trading post for, are so insanely expensive that players with the kind of courage the trading post desperately needs, will just go and get the items themselves. sure Ancient bone isn’t exactly common, but for the time it would take to get 66 silver you could just go and find the item yourself. Then to many sellers(and I’m not alone in this, I asked people outside my circle), they abandon or never enter the system because of the lack of any kind of control. People like me and many others feel powerless to the powers that set market value and don’t get any decision about their own items sale.

Yes, some people don’t mind making as much money as possible, but some like me and -many- others, feel like cheats and jerks when we sell items for more than it’s even remotely worth by our standards. Whether the prices are and wrong is a non-issue, but the fact the seller has no decision, and the buyer’s dont have the courage(or intensive) to wait for much of a lower price, it just ends up pushing everyone out of the trading post.

I don’t claim to be an export but this is out of hand, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. And don’t tell me that my first example, the price of silver dubloons, and the price of charged lodestones(both of which are abusing the fact legendaries require it) is fair. the fact is, many people like me are getting pushed out of the system due to any lack of control, and none of the buyuers have the courage to fix anything(or again, the insensitive).

so….any ideas? Because I’m up to finding a solution that makes it much friendlier to trade, both as buyer and seller.

It is a free and global market(NA/EU). The prices for every are determined by supply and demand. Most players are either lvl 80 or a new player, so the t1 and t6 items are more common than the t3-t4 items. The value of item various during the day in the morning prices for crafting mats are high in the afternoon they are cheap.

The players that rush to sell items for quick gold do not gain the maximum profit. Still players that are patient will either make a profit off of that or get a significantly cheaper item due to buy orders. Flipper make their money off of the impatient people that want to make quick gold.

The price of silver doubloons and charged lodestones is justified. Their is a very low drop rate for those items. Can not control any of the crafting market for a prolong period of time since those items are in constant supply.

You are about to have the same experience with the trading forum as you did with the dungeon forum I think, but here we go

What you are expecting is a price system similar to those of the control economies of single player RPGs with with a consistent pricing pattern. GW2 is more complicated and dynamic, and is more akin to a free market where supply and demand are the major factors.

Let’s look at your shield example. Both iron and darksteel shield parts have similar levels of demand. The differentiating factor is the cost of the component parts. Iron is in high demand thanks to a number of recipes and the fact that it takes 3 ore per ingot. Iron may well be produced at the same rate as platinum, but it doesn’t go as far so it’s price is higher and that price is passed on to the shield parts.

But isn’t a darksteel shield more useful, therefore more valuable? Sure it is, to a level 65 character, but it’s useless to a level 35 character. More pertinently a shield part’s value is dependant on the level the weaponsmith is at. In this case take a look at the supply and demand and it makes sense. Take a look at what your preconceived ideas of the prices are and you will be confused.

Are prices of silver doubloons or charged lodestones fair? Given their supply and demand, yes. Is it fair that people who want legendaries have to pay so much fair? In my opinion it’s a little on the high side, but the problem is with how many sources we have been given for them rather than the market reaction. Charged lodestones are passable given the new sparks in Orr, but I think there should be more sources of silver doubloons through natural gameplay (park a level 25 at a jumping puzzle, really?)

Hi there, me again.

That’s because crafting materials aren’t always just crafting materials but have other uses that may temporarily drive up their price. In the case with iron, the Bazaar is in town and will accept iron for Zephyr Sanctum Supply Boxes. There were spikes at other times for other reasons. Same is true with all crafting materials.

For instance when they introduced ascended items, which required players to craft them for themselves caused a run on crafting supplies. Which highlighted the fact that players weren’t harvesting enough materials in the middle level zones. Which then cause a rush on middle level items on the TP to act as sources for these materials. Add in Mystic Forge promotion, where a lot of one tier item is used to make fewer of the next tier and the whole crafting market of materials, as least in the crafting areas that can make ascended items rise in price rather sharply.

Flip side is few cared about making a profit crafting on the way up. This made some items dirt cheap because supply outran demand by a huge number. That’s why silver settings are cheaper than silver ingots which are cheaper than the silver ore to make them. They just flooded the market with them hoping to get something back. That’s why there are not a lot of items players can craft and make a profit on, unless of course they had harvested the materials themselves.

In the case of Silver Doubloons, players don’t do the content where they drop, thus they are in short supply. They are only found in drops in level 20-30 zones and because leveling is so quick and easy in this game, players blow right past those zones. Charged Lodestones are the same except in high level zones and if you’ve ever been to Orr, it’s not all that inviting to visit frequently.

So it’s not rocket surgery, not enough player do the content that drops them. If they do get them they may choose to keep them for their own use rather than sell them. This leads to low supply and whenever there is low supply and high demand, prices are high. That’s why it’s a “law”.

While that explains the cost of shield part, you are making a mistake by oversimplifying the market with nothing but supply and demand. I’m well aware the nature of silver doubloons as rare items comparatively combined with the demand as a legendary part skyrockets their price.

My issue is, how does one fix that. You can try and make excuses all you want for the prices, they’re all interesting, but the fact its happening and the seller has no ability to work with a buyer and fix it(nor do the buyers have reason or motive to believe sellers will do so when sellers cannot give an indication), so you end up with a lot of potential price problems that are just plan absurd with no justification other than pure luck caused it. If supply and demand are the SOLE drivers for profit to the point no one can have any power at all, then the market is quite frankly broken.

so again I ask, what can be done, how would the game fix this market and make it something anyone could get into an effect, and actually have fair dealings with buyers -and- sellers working together, instead of leaving sellers powerless, and buyers too afraid to make a meaningful move. to that, i have no answer.

You can choose the price as much as you can a gallon of gas or a can of soda. You have no market power alone there, yet the economy functions.

And please don’t bring up the speculator crap. Speculators are just like people who invest in oil prices and people too stingy to pay are the guys who bike to work or buy an electric car. They are ALL part of the supply and demand.

You look at a lvl 80 sharpening stone and say, “no way I’m paying 30s for that.” You then buy the lvl 60 version. Supply and demand.

You look at those ancient bones and say, “not buying those”. Also supply and demand…

All that is needed for the market to reach equilibrium is a method that facilitates individuals to state their price. The TP does this just fine.

VideoGamermike.5813:

While that explains the cost of shield part, you are making a mistake by oversimplifying the market with nothing but supply and demand. I’m well aware the nature of silver doubloons as rare items comparatively combined with the demand as a legendary part skyrockets their price.

My issue is, how does one fix that. You can try and make excuses all you want for the prices, they’re all interesting, but the fact its happening and the seller has no ability to work with a buyer and fix it(nor do the buyers have reason or motive to believe sellers will do so when sellers cannot give an indication), so you end up with a lot of potential price problems that are just plan absurd with no justification other than pure luck caused it. If supply and demand are the SOLE drivers for profit to the point no one can have any power at all, then the market is quite frankly broken.

so again I ask, what can be done, how would the game fix this market and make it something anyone could get into an effect, and actually have fair dealings with buyers -and- sellers working together, instead of leaving sellers powerless, and buyers too afraid to make a meaningful move. to that, i have no answer.

Because silver doubloons are a limiting factor in the number of Juggernauts that can be made not everyone will be able to afford one when they want to make it. If there was a rule that all silver doubloons had to be put on the TP for one copper unless you own a colossus then there would still be a bottle neck. There are currently enough silver doubloons for less than 150 Juggernauts, which might sound like a lot but really isn’t. So after these 150 Juggernauts are made people are still limited and they are still complaining that they have to be on the TP at the exact time somebody happens to sell.

Silver doubloons will still be hard to get on the TP because they are hard to get in the open world. With silver doubloons it really does all come down to supply.

Here is something you probably haven’t considered. Because silver doubloons are so valuable people actually go out do their way to acquire them. In this way the trading post is actually pushing up the number being found. I am also perpetual confident in saying that the number that have been farmed expressly to be sold on the TP well exceeds the 3,500 sitting on the trading post. So the trading post has actually meant that more people have been able to get them than if people were forced to sell them for one copper.

You seem to want to be able to push the prices to where you think is fair. Let’s say a mechanism was introduced to let you do that. What do you think the chances are that you would feel the effects of your actions in a market where thousands of others take place every day with the same power? You ask for the impossible because you have a dubious preconceived notion of what you think the price should be.

The main issue you are having VideoGamermike.5813 is that the TP is global instead of server based like in other mmo. A server based auction supply was easier to control and you can feel that you are really contributing. With a global market it is harder to have control over any specific item. The rarer items are more abundant in a global market . Hard to imagine getting a legendary if it was rare to even see a precursor on a server based TP.

VideoGamermike.5813:

Ok…I -tried- to give the system some leeway and put myself in it, I tried, hard. I really did people. But…this is insane.

some of the things are way too expensive, just look at the cost of say, Iron shield parts, I caught one Iron shield part worth -more- than the darksteel equivalent. What kind of sense does that make?!

Heres my problem, the way it stands a lot of the items that peopel would even go tot he trading post for, are so insanely expensive that players with the kind of courage the trading post desperately needs, will just go and get the items themselves. sure Ancient bone isn’t exactly common, but for the time it would take to get 66 silver you could just go and find the item yourself. Then to many sellers(and I’m not alone in this, I asked people outside my circle), they abandon or never enter the system because of the lack of any kind of control. People like me and many others feel powerless to the powers that set market value and don’t get any decision about their own items sale.

Yes, some people don’t mind making as much money as possible, but some like me and -many- others, feel like cheats and jerks when we sell items for more than it’s even remotely worth by our standards. Whether the prices are and wrong is a non-issue, but the fact the seller has no decision, and the buyer’s dont have the courage(or intensive) to wait for much of a lower price, it just ends up pushing everyone out of the trading post.

I don’t claim to be an export but this is out of hand, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. And don’t tell me that my first example, the price of silver dubloons, and the price of charged lodestones(both of which are abusing the fact legendaries require it) is fair. the fact is, many people like me are getting pushed out of the system due to any lack of control, and none of the buyuers have the courage to fix anything(or again, the insensitive).

so….any ideas? Because I’m up to finding a solution that makes it much friendlier to trade, both as buyer and seller.

You already got an answer from the Game Economist in the Thread you opened about this topic 2 months ago.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Am-I-the-only-one-experiencing-this/first

Let me point out a couple of things John said. Perhaps you forgot:

John Smith.4610:

A couple of points to consider:
A Trading Post is not an Auction House and that is an intentional decision.
When a player posts a buy or sell order, that player is making a public statement. I am willing to pay this money or trade this item at this price. Those who offer the highest willingness to pay get matched first. I don’t see anything but market failures and weird scams coming from a system that allows arbitrary trading. Our system now works quickly and efficiently and gives (virtually) everyone what they’re asking for.
This system was not designed intentionally to enhance the quantity of gold sunk, that’s simply a byproduct of an efficient market.

John Smith.4610:

I think you may misunderstand how the system works again. I recommend you go to gw2Spidy and look at some of the charts over time. Also take a little bit of time to look at how the trading post really works and then reformulate your problem. I’m happy to answer any questions you might have.

VideoGamermike.5813:

While that explains the cost of shield part, you are making a mistake by oversimplifying the market with nothing but supply and demand. I’m well aware the nature of silver doubloons as rare items comparatively combined with the demand as a legendary part skyrockets their price.

My issue is, how does one fix that. You can try and make excuses all you want for the prices, they’re all interesting, but the fact its happening and the seller has no ability to work with a buyer and fix it(nor do the buyers have reason or motive to believe sellers will do so when sellers cannot give an indication), so you end up with a lot of potential price problems that are just plan absurd with no justification other than pure luck caused it. If supply and demand are the SOLE drivers for profit to the point no one can have any power at all, then the market is quite frankly broken.

so again I ask, what can be done, how would the game fix this market and make it something anyone could get into an effect, and actually have fair dealings with buyers -and- sellers working together, instead of leaving sellers powerless, and buyers too afraid to make a meaningful move. to that, i have no answer.

I don’t really understand what you’re trying to get here. But that depends on the mindset you are assuming and your intentions.

So here they are:

First off, with an economic mindset, there is no problem or issue here. The price is at equilibrium and it’s fair. The price is controlled by both the seller (very few drops) and the buyer (very few buyers for the item).

But if we were to take this from a gameplay standpoint, there is an issue, as this particular component is unreasonably rare, especially when compared to specific components of other legendaries.

The solution for this problem is quite simple – increase the drop rate, reduce the doubloon requirement count, or both. Any of the two will adjust the prices downward, and both will do wonders with correcting the item’s market.

Again, with gameplay in mind.

If you are taking this with an economic standpoint and all this profit mumbo jumbo, then you are pointing at problems that are not really there.