Traidingpost Flipping should brought in line
“Wow, I really wished all people would put so much effort in thinking about something first before posting. That’s not to say that I am succefully doing so every time.”
Just how are these “thoughtless” posts. You stated the reason you want to stop TP flipping is because you dont like other people having more money than you by playing a different way.. The only logical conclusion is out of a sense of jealousy. Unless your dislike of people having more than you by flipping is born by something else, the only logical conclusion is that you are jealous. If it is because of another reason, please fill us in so the discussion can continue.
No you’re just missing the whole point, in fact it’s like you’re heading in the opposite direction. That what you quoted is my personal opinion. And I can express my opinion as much as I want. My opinion however is not the reason why I wrote this thread. I wrote this thread because traiding post flipping is unfair, because it breaks the normal time-spent/reward pattern. And wether or not “fair” is a debateable term I can try to make this game a little bit fairer, especially because the devs actually can make the game fairer, so that this game will maintain a healthier state.
ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.
No it’s not the same. Rewards from Champ Trains was newly generated wealth. Without proper checks and balances on new monies, the value of Gold would plummet, which would then lead to higher prices overall.
Profits from the TP are existing wealth traded between players, and 15% of that is taken out of the economy as a sink. This sink helps to maintain control on the in game value of Gold. Ergo, TP traders are good for the economy.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
You can play the game however you want to play it; in fact, nobody should tell you how to play your own game. If you want to TP flip, fine! If you want to pve, fine(just note that content may be limited)! If you want to pvp, fine! If you want to WvW, fine!
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.
Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
it requires less patience in terms of profit over time. Ie, you have a much higher ceiling in terms of profit for skilled play in TP versus skilled play in PVP, or skilled play in PVE.
When playing the TP you don’t get loot drops, karma, AP, social interaction or anything else that the rest of the game offers. It’s simply a means to an end, the TP was set up to make it easier to trade items between players than it was in the original GW (spamadon) and it does its job very well.
It’s a legitimate part of the game, was created to be part of the game and is working as intended. None of your kitten-throwing is going to change any of that. Frankly, this song is getting a bit old, it’s time to change discs.
when playing the tp, you can buy loot drops, you also get social interaction if you want it, many a man in town flipping talking in general chat, or even talking about prices sometimes.
the TP legitmate part of the game, i never claimed it wasnt.
As far as changing it? they probably wont, its pretty good as a tool.
the problem is that economy as a whole, is built in a way that incentivizes TP play over other methods in terms of value gained per time spent. You will continue to get threads popping up who feel that the incentives should be placed elsewhere, and the TP should mostly be a means of trading value, as long as this is the case.
Certain players like phys would probably love it if Anet gave more account bound rewards for content. But that wouldn’t satisfy the frivolous complaints where one player is angry that other players are rich.
John seriously needs to close this thread. We’re in an endless circle of kitten because the OP doesn’t understand what we’re trying to explain.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.
No it’s not the same. Rewards from Champ Trains was newly generated wealth. Without proper checks and balances on new monies, the value of Gold would plummet, which would then lead to higher prices overall.
Profits from the TP are existing wealth traded between players, and 15% of that is taken out of the economy as a sink. This sink helps to maintain control on the in game value of Gold. Ergo, TP traders are good for the economy.
The goldsink is neither that meaningfull if it get replaced by another gold sink, nor would it vanish if traiding post flipping would be stopped.
And you’re not draining your money, you’re draining the money of those who buy your stuff, ergo, you keep the economy in check by making other players poorer.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TP
and i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
Certain players like phys would probably love it if Anet gave more account bound rewards for content. But that wouldn’t satisfy the frivolous complaints where one player is angry that other players are rich.
John seriously needs to close this thread. We’re in an endless circle of kitten because the OP doesn’t understand what we’re trying to explain.
i dont mind if you can sell items, as long as the main means of getting it is through deliberate, targeted play. Then the sale price represents the value of the item as percieved by those playing the content, and those who dont want to play the content. It also gives you the option to opt out of the gold method of obtaining the item, and cut to the core.
i never had a problem with ambraces or ectos in GW1, even though people could trade for it, because i could go hunt them on my own, and get a pretty good value for that because the prices were set by people who specifically did that content, and came up with pretty fair numbers.
In GW2, these items are really only practically obtainable, and balanced, based on what the tp value is.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TPand i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
No. The purpose of his post is that he doesn’t think flipping is a legitimate way to acquire gold. The second part about the disparity between those that flip and those that do other activities in the came was just an opinion of his to support his argument.
See the bolded below:
First off, I don’t see traidingpost flipping as legitimate way to acquire gold, especially not if it’s the most rewarding way to get gold.
One could say that traidingpost flipping requires some sort of skill but I think those guys are ruining enough in real life, they don’t have to be the richest people in-game too.
Those players literally don’t have to play the game at all to get almost everything, while players who are actually playing the game can’t compete with that volume of income.Suggestion:
Add a new binding mechanic, in addition to account bound or soulbound, that prevent the reselling of items bought from the trading post and the reselling of items gathered/crafted/forged out of items which were bought from the tradingpost.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TPand i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
This exactly. You guys have me convinced me on a rude way, which I hate you for, that the traiding post flipping serves some purpose. John Smith’s statement also made sense in that way that a gold which was spent two times is more worth than a gold just spent one time. However my point still stands: traiding post flipping should not offer the greatest revenue in game.
(edited by HHR LostProphet.4801)
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
you misread the first question its not is the tp a valid way to play the game.
Its does playing the tp offer more value returned than playing other facets.
as for number 2, your reasoning for should it be this way, is that it is this way, therefor it should be this way. this is called circular reasoning.
now, im just pointing out flawed reasoning, and a misunderstanding of the question, not saying your answers should be my own, or his own.
as far as the “truth”
the truth is there are many truths, the key is to understand exactly what your a dealing with and isolate it properly from outside factors.is the earth relatively flat compared to a humans size? yes
is the earth round relatively compared to the vast space? yesinterestingly enough, the main problem comes here when people try to apply different concepts/perspectives to the other perspectives.
Its essentially practically wrong, to say a road is round if its stays at sea level. however it is practically wrong to say a road is flat when viewed from a planetary scale.
Ill concede I misunderstood the first question. Does the merchant way outstrip the adventurer way? In terms of making gold, yes. In terms of value? That depends on what the individual thinks is valuable. Is it gold and having lots of it? Or is it running around with friends killing things and exploring? Thats a question that has an aswer as varied as the many people who play. However disparaging what another defines as value is not ok. OP doesnt like it so it must be shut down.
2. Not circular at all. The TP was launched, created, with flippers in mind. Again it should be this way, because thats how it was set up to be. Changing what it was supposed to do, provide a way for people to avoid farming, for a gold sink, and for people who enjoy flipping the TP a way to do that without harming the economy, would put out thousands of players, cause the economy to start doing horrible things, and general chaos would rule over Tryia.
Truth: I am a very black and white type of a person. Its difficult for me to even fathom grey areas. So I am coming from a position of there is really only one truth, and all else is false. This is a “failing” of mine (if you would like to call it that). Its just the way I am.
Prespective: I can see your point, but its still just a matter of perspective :P
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TPand i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
This exactly. You guys have me convinced me on a rude way, which I hate you for, that the traiding post flipping serves some purpose. John Smith’s statement also made sense in that way that a gold which was spent two times is more worth than a gold just spent one time. However my point still stands: traiding post flipping should not offer the greatest revenue in game.
Provide facts, not opinions, on why this must be so. Keep in mind that flipping is a legitimate activity in the game.
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TPand i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
This exactly. You guys have me convinced me on a rude way, which I hate you for, that the traiding post flipping serves some purpose. John Smith’s statement also made sense in that way that a gold which was spent two times is more worth than a gold just spent one time. However my point still stands: traiding post flipping should not offer the greatest revenue in game.
Provide facts, not opinions, on why this must be so. Keep in mind that flipping is a legitimate activity in the game.
Read the thread I’ve said it numerous of times…
Fine, just for you:
Normal earning formula: Set amount of gold * time spend = reward.
Traiding post flipping formula: Variable amount of gold * time spent = reward.
This means: No matter how much gold a dungeon runner has, if he runs an ADAP run, he gets around 50g per day.
The traiding post flipper however can get revenues based on the gold he has initially spent. Even if a flipper just starts with 2 gold and just gets 5% more gold every day, he will soon get more gold per day than a dungeon runner.
And please don’t say that’s not how it is because I can assure you that all those guys who have 10k+ gold haven’t done an ADAP run yet.
No. The purpose of his post is that he doesn’t think flipping is a legitimate way to acquire gold. The second part about the disparity between those that flip and those that do other activities in the came was just an opinion of his to support his argument.
See the bolded below:
First off, I don’t see traidingpost flipping as legitimate way to acquire gold, especially not if it’s the most rewarding way to get gold.
One could say that traidingpost flipping requires some sort of skill but I think those guys are ruining enough in real life, they don’t have to be the richest people in-game too.
Those players literally don’t have to play the game at all to get almost everything, while players who are actually playing the game can’t compete with that volume of income.Suggestion:
Add a new binding mechanic, in addition to account bound or soulbound, that prevent the reselling of items bought from the trading post and the reselling of items gathered/crafted/forged out of items which were bought from the tradingpost.
the goal of discussion is to find the truth, and come to understandings, Sure when someone steps into a forum they may mostly be filled with anger, and have some unreasonable views, the key is to find the real problem. then see if its one that can/should be solved.
like someone may start out talking to a engineer like, tall buildings are the bane of humanity.
through discussion and analysis, you may realize that his real issue, and ones other people keep bringing up without realizing it is,
tall buildings block the sun.
now as an engineer, i can say hmmm. i cant give up tall buildings, but perhaps i can come up with a technique so they do not block the sun, or one where they may block it but give the same feeling.
See if the goal is a debate to prove the ops initial post incorrect or correct, thats a different beast, but if the goal is to understand what the ops problems/misconceptions/issues are, and solve or elucidate them, then you discuss things, and adapt to the discussion.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
So how does an adventurer playstyle out-value merchant playstyle as phys put it?
And just because it can be done in the real word doesn’t mean it should be done in game. Neither is the “mainstream” opinion always the right one. And by the way, if you’re 2m above sea level, you can see 5,05 km wide until the earth’s curvature blocks your vision. So the world isn’t as flat as you may think it is.
And just because the “mechanics allow that” doesn’t mean its untouchable or unquestionable. ANet has stopped the champtrain because too many people had made too much gold with it. The traidingpost flipping is the same, just with less people who make more gold.Just for clarity the champ trains werent stopped because of too much income. The trains were stopped because of the myriad of complaints, the toxic environment caused by someone accidentally killing a champ out of order, and the excessive amount of bots.
Also about the curvature, in order to see that you need to change your perspective (I.e. being in an open area or up high enough)
Also it would seem you missed the post about JS talking about this very thing.
JS post actually didnt answer his problem, JS is saying the TP flipping is valid means of playing the game, and he likes what it does for the mercantile engine.
but the OPs point as i see it is this.
The value returned from flipping is greater than other modes of play.
He doesnt think it should be this way.
JS, in that post didnt say he thought flipping should return 5-10 times as much profit over time as jumping puzzles, dungeons, or exploration.
JS didnt say that the main means of obtaining specific items should be the TPand i think even if he did, thats something worthy of challenging. And it gets to the real core of the issue that these players have, which isnt so much about the mechanics of the economics, but the overall economic structure and where/how it leads the ingame society.
This exactly. You guys have me convinced me on a rude way, which I hate you for, that the traiding post flipping serves some purpose. John Smith’s statement also made sense in that way that a gold which was spent two times is more worth than a gold just spent one time. However my point still stands: traiding post flipping should not offer the greatest revenue in game.
Provide facts, not opinions, on why this must be so. Keep in mind that flipping is a legitimate activity in the game.
Read the thread I’ve said it numerous of times…
Fine, just for you:
Normal earning formula: Set amount of gold * time spend = reward.
Traiding post flipping formula: Variable amount of gold * time spent = reward.
This means: No matter how much gold a dungeon runner has, if he runs an ADAP run, he gets around 50g per day.
The traiding post flipper however can get revenues based on the gold he has initially spent. Even if a flipper just starts with 2 gold and just gets 5% more gold every day, he will soon get more gold per day than a dungeon runner.
And please don’t say that’s not how it is because I can assure you that all those guys who have 10k+ gold haven’t done an ADAP run yet.
You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.
No. The purpose of his post is that he doesn’t think flipping is a legitimate way to acquire gold. The second part about the disparity between those that flip and those that do other activities in the came was just an opinion of his to support his argument.
See the bolded below:
First off, I don’t see traidingpost flipping as legitimate way to acquire gold, especially not if it’s the most rewarding way to get gold.
One could say that traidingpost flipping requires some sort of skill but I think those guys are ruining enough in real life, they don’t have to be the richest people in-game too.
Those players literally don’t have to play the game at all to get almost everything, while players who are actually playing the game can’t compete with that volume of income.Suggestion:
Add a new binding mechanic, in addition to account bound or soulbound, that prevent the reselling of items bought from the trading post and the reselling of items gathered/crafted/forged out of items which were bought from the tradingpost.the goal of discussion is to find the truth, and come to understandings, Sure when someone steps into a forum they may mostly be filled with anger, and have some unreasonable views, the key is to find the real problem. then see if its one that can/should be solved.
like someone may start out talking to a engineer like, tall buildings are the bane of humanity.
through discussion and analysis, you may realize that his real issue, and ones other people keep bringing up without realizing it is,
tall buildings block the sun.
now as an engineer, i can say hmmm. i cant give up tall buildings, but perhaps i can come up with a technique so they do not block the sun, or one where they may block it but give the same feeling.See if the goal is a debate to prove the ops initial post incorrect or correct, thats a different beast, but if the goal is to understand what the ops problems/misconceptions/issues are, and solve or elucidate them, then you discuss things, and adapt to the discussion.
Precisely. Thats why ive stayed in as long as I have :P
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?
All of this on the first page showing a trend. I can do the rest if there’s a need.
First off, I don’t see traidingpost flipping as legitimate way to acquire gold, especially not if it’s the most rewarding way to get gold.
What do you play? Do you play the Stock Exchange simulator? Last time I checked this game was named GuildWars2. You seriously don’t have to play a MMO if the only thing you want to do is flipping the traiding post. If you want to play GW2, go ahead and play. But playing the trading post can’t be considered playing GW2.
I consider playing the game means doing everything exept flipping the tradingpost to get way too much gold for way too little effort. If you feel the need to claim that I want the players to play my way, then yes, they should play how I consider playing a game.
the tradingpost flipping doesn’t belong to GW2, it doesn’t define it. If you say that GW2 get defined through it’s traidingpost then it’s about time to leave this game.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
you misread the first question its not is the tp a valid way to play the game.
Its does playing the tp offer more value returned than playing other facets.
as for number 2, your reasoning for should it be this way, is that it is this way, therefor it should be this way. this is called circular reasoning.
now, im just pointing out flawed reasoning, and a misunderstanding of the question, not saying your answers should be my own, or his own.
as far as the “truth”
the truth is there are many truths, the key is to understand exactly what your a dealing with and isolate it properly from outside factors.is the earth relatively flat compared to a humans size? yes
is the earth round relatively compared to the vast space? yesinterestingly enough, the main problem comes here when people try to apply different concepts/perspectives to the other perspectives.
Its essentially practically wrong, to say a road is round if its stays at sea level. however it is practically wrong to say a road is flat when viewed from a planetary scale.
Ill concede I misunderstood the first question. Does the merchant way outstrip the adventurer way? In terms of making gold, yes. In terms of value? That depends on what the individual thinks is valuable. Is it gold and having lots of it? Or is it running around with friends killing things and exploring? Thats a question that has an aswer as varied as the many people who play. However disparaging what another defines as value is not ok. OP doesnt like it so it must be shut down.
2. Not circular at all. The TP was launched, created, with flippers in mind. Again it should be this way, because thats how it was set up to be. Changing what it was supposed to do, provide a way for people to avoid farming, for a gold sink, and for people who enjoy flipping the TP a way to do that without harming the economy, would put out thousands of players, cause the economy to start doing horrible things, and general chaos would rule over Tryia.
Truth: I am a very black and white type of a person. Its difficult for me to even fathom grey areas. So I am coming from a position of there is really only one truth, and all else is false. This is a “failing” of mine (if you would like to call it that). Its just the way I am.
Prespective: I can see your point, but its still just a matter of perspective :P
not to get into a side thing, and i get the black and white perception, but its actually shocking how much science has found, things are sometimes objectively subjective. or in a more accurate term, relative.
You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.
Can you solo a dungeon? It does seem so because, according to you, it requires way less skill than flipping the traiding post. Not to mention that gw2spidy does the most work for you.
And no, there shouldn’t be that disparity, since it shouldn’t give more reward than any other content of this game. The most efficient way should be a mixture of all things: Do easy dungeons, sell some paths, farm some materials and flip some coins on the traiding post. Purely flipping the traiding post shouldn’t be the way to get as much gold as possible.
You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.
Can you solo a dungeon? It does seem so because, according to you, it requires way less skill than flipping the traiding post. Not to mention that gw2spidy does the most work for you.
And no, there shouldn’t be that disparity, since it shouldn’t give more reward than any other content of this game. The most efficient way should ge a mixture of all things: Do easy dungeons, sell some paths, farm some materials and flip some coins on the traiding post. Purely flipping the traiding post shouldn’t be the way to get as much gold as possible.
Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…
If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
The last paragraph is an opinion.
You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.
Can you solo a dungeon? It does seem so because, according to you, it requires way less skill than flipping the traiding post. Not to mention that gw2spidy does the most work for you.
And no, there shouldn’t be that disparity, since it shouldn’t give more reward than any other content of this game. The most efficient way should ge a mixture of all things: Do easy dungeons, sell some paths, farm some materials and flip some coins on the traiding post. Purely flipping the traiding post shouldn’t be the way to get as much gold as possible.Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
The last paragraph is an opinion.
Soloing dungeons is the most effective way in PvE to make gold, since you can sell the slots left at the end.
And no, enlighten me what you have to do that gw2spidy doesn’t, except searching the database for the most efficient way to flip.
problem for HHR he feels the value of the merchant lifestyle outstrips the value of the adventurer lifestyle.
So first you have to ask yourself
is this true?
then you have to ask
should it be this way?
then you have to ask
If it shouldnt be this way, how can i change
if it should be this way, then dunno what to tell him.i wont get into my opinion on the matter, though people can probably guess from my other posts
Is this true? No. Playing the TP is a valid way to play the game.
Should it be this way? Yes. The mechanics allow for it to be done. The API for the TP was released for this very purpose. Even in RL making smart investments, buying and selling stcok etc. is the BEST way to get “rich quick”.Just because one person has a different perspective on an issue doesnt mean that that is the truth. It just means that that persons perceptive is flawed to what is widely accepted as truth. There is only one version of truth. Period. The world is round, but our perspective is that its flat. That doesn’t change the fact that the world is indeed round.
you misread the first question its not is the tp a valid way to play the game.
Its does playing the tp offer more value returned than playing other facets.
as for number 2, your reasoning for should it be this way, is that it is this way, therefor it should be this way. this is called circular reasoning.
now, im just pointing out flawed reasoning, and a misunderstanding of the question, not saying your answers should be my own, or his own.
as far as the “truth”
the truth is there are many truths, the key is to understand exactly what your a dealing with and isolate it properly from outside factors.is the earth relatively flat compared to a humans size? yes
is the earth round relatively compared to the vast space? yesinterestingly enough, the main problem comes here when people try to apply different concepts/perspectives to the other perspectives.
Its essentially practically wrong, to say a road is round if its stays at sea level. however it is practically wrong to say a road is flat when viewed from a planetary scale.
Ill concede I misunderstood the first question. Does the merchant way outstrip the adventurer way? In terms of making gold, yes. In terms of value? That depends on what the individual thinks is valuable. Is it gold and having lots of it? Or is it running around with friends killing things and exploring? Thats a question that has an aswer as varied as the many people who play. However disparaging what another defines as value is not ok. OP doesnt like it so it must be shut down.
2. Not circular at all. The TP was launched, created, with flippers in mind. Again it should be this way, because thats how it was set up to be. Changing what it was supposed to do, provide a way for people to avoid farming, for a gold sink, and for people who enjoy flipping the TP a way to do that without harming the economy, would put out thousands of players, cause the economy to start doing horrible things, and general chaos would rule over Tryia.
Truth: I am a very black and white type of a person. Its difficult for me to even fathom grey areas. So I am coming from a position of there is really only one truth, and all else is false. This is a “failing” of mine (if you would like to call it that). Its just the way I am.
Prespective: I can see your point, but its still just a matter of perspective :P
not to get into a side thing, and i get the black and white perception, but its actually shocking how much science has found, things are sometimes objectively subjective. or in a more accurate term, relative.
I’ll say this and no more about that. Yes, it is amazing and I can get relatively, but I live in a world of absolutes, and sometimes more complex relativity baffles me. I guess that’s why I’m so drawn to fantasy…anyway back to the frey.
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?
Its not about the effectiveness of the meta, its about forcing the meta on those who like to do things differently…much like this discussion. Your stance would be the meta viewpoint, and flippers the PHIW group. In the end the PHIW groups usually win out as long as the meta group doesnt interfere and visa versa..
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
The last paragraph is an opinion.
Soloing dungeons is the most effective way in PvE to make gold, since you can sell the slots left at the end.
And no, enlighten me what you have to do that gw2spidy doesn’t, except searching the database for the most efficient way to flip.
So exactly how much time do you think if takes to solo a dungeon? How long does it take to fill up a party? How much do they get from each person?
Think of it this way, if making a profit was as simple as looking up margin on gw2spidy, don’t you think everyone would be doing that and thus eliminating any profit to be made?
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?
Its not about the effectiveness of the meta, its about forcing the meta on those who like to do things differently…much like this discussion. Your stance would be the meta viewpoint, and flippers the PHIW group. In the end the PHIW groups usually win out as long as the meta group doesnt interfere and visa versa..
But a healthy meta doesn’t resolve around just one thing. If you want to run dungeons most efficiently, you wont pick 5 warriors or 5 elementalists. You wont do that for PvP either. So why do people get locked to traiding post flipping if they’re looking for the most efficient way to make gold. Shouldn’t it be like picking the best out of all aviable options of each gamemode? Same as you pick different classes to optimise your run.
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?
Its not about the effectiveness of the meta, its about forcing the meta on those who like to do things differently…much like this discussion. Your stance would be the meta viewpoint, and flippers the PHIW group. In the end the PHIW groups usually win out as long as the meta group doesnt interfere and visa versa..
But a healthy meta doesn’t resolve around just one thing. If you want to run dungeons most efficiently, you wont pick 5 warriors or 5 elementalists. You wont do that for PvP either. So why do people get locked to traiding post flipping if they’re looking for the most efficient way to make gold. Shouldn’t it be like picking the best out of all aviable options of each gamemode? Same as you pick different classes to optimise your run.
Making money does not revolve around flipping though. There are plenty of other ways. People make plenty of gold doing dungeon tours and other things.
Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
The last paragraph is an opinion.
Soloing dungeons is the most effective way in PvE to make gold, since you can sell the slots left at the end.
And no, enlighten me what you have to do that gw2spidy doesn’t, except searching the database for the most efficient way to flip.So exactly how much time do you think if takes to solo a dungeon? How long does it take to fill up a party? How much do they get from each person?
Think of it this way, if making a profit was as simple as looking up margin on gw2spidy, don’t you think everyone would be doing that and thus eliminating any profit to be made?
Gw2spidy is the same cup of tea as Gw2LFG was. It was there, it worked well but it wasn’t popular. Also it’s not just about looking for the greatest margin but also for the velocity certain items get sold, as example.
For the solo run: You’ll probably would do Arah since it’s the most common dungeon for sellers. A normal seller does need 40min. to 80min. to finish a run and another 20min. maximum to fill up the party. He usually gets 5-20g per player, based on the path he is selling.
(edited by HHR LostProphet.4801)
Gw2spidy is the same cup of tea as Gw2LFG was. It was there, it worked well but it wasn’t popular. Also it’s not just about looking for the greatest margin but also for the velocity certain items get sold, as example.
I’m not going to give a lesson on how to efficiently flip items on the TP. If you believe that gw2spidy is all that you need then prove it.
For the solo run: You’ll probably would do Arah since it’s the most common dungeon for sellers. A normal seller does need 40min. to 80min. to finish a run and another 20min. maximum to fill up the party. He usually get 5-20g, based on the path he was selling.
And that is efficient to you?
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?
Its not about the effectiveness of the meta, its about forcing the meta on those who like to do things differently…much like this discussion. Your stance would be the meta viewpoint, and flippers the PHIW group. In the end the PHIW groups usually win out as long as the meta group doesnt interfere and visa versa..
But a healthy meta doesn’t resolve around just one thing. If you want to run dungeons most efficiently, you wont pick 5 warriors or 5 elementalists. You wont do that for PvP either. So why do people get locked to traiding post flipping if they’re looking for the most efficient way to make gold. Shouldn’t it be like picking the best out of all aviable options of each gamemode? Same as you pick different classes to optimise your run.
Making money does not revolve around flipping though. There are plenty of other ways. People make plenty of gold doing dungeon tours and other things.
Yes, but as I’ve said several times, traiding post flipping can offer the greatest revenue and the players who have 10k+ gold, didn’t got their gold through dungeon running.
I can do 20g per day running 6 different dungeons and I do need several hours to complete them. Don’t tell me you get less gold if you spend several hours traiding.
Also I just realize this is the economic version of the PHIW vs. Meta build argument…inthe end play how you want, but just leave others to do the same and all will be well.
Well, if it’s that way then the meta has to be balanced. You don’t want the hambow cheese as meta, do you?
Its not about the effectiveness of the meta, its about forcing the meta on those who like to do things differently…much like this discussion. Your stance would be the meta viewpoint, and flippers the PHIW group. In the end the PHIW groups usually win out as long as the meta group doesnt interfere and visa versa..
But a healthy meta doesn’t resolve around just one thing. If you want to run dungeons most efficiently, you wont pick 5 warriors or 5 elementalists. You wont do that for PvP either. So why do people get locked to traiding post flipping if they’re looking for the most efficient way to make gold. Shouldn’t it be like picking the best out of all aviable options of each gamemode? Same as you pick different classes to optimise your run.
Making money does not revolve around flipping though. There are plenty of other ways. People make plenty of gold doing dungeon tours and other things.
Yes, but as I’ve said several times, traiding post flipping can offer the greatest revenue and the players who have 10k+ gold, didn’t got their gold through dungeon running.
I can do 20g per day running 6 different dungeons and I do need several hours to complete them. Don’t tell me you get less gold if you spend several hours traiding.
You act as though there are these items with large profit margins that can constantly be sold to quickly make gold.
Gw2spidy is the same cup of tea as Gw2LFG was. It was there, it worked well but it wasn’t popular. Also it’s not just about looking for the greatest margin but also for the velocity certain items get sold, as example.
I’m not going to give a lesson on how to efficiently flip items on the TP. If you believe that gw2spidy is all that you need then prove it.
For the solo run: You’ll probably would do Arah since it’s the most common dungeon for sellers. A normal seller does need 40min. to 80min. to finish a run and another 20min. maximum to fill up the party. He usually get 5-20g, based on the path he was selling.
And that is efficient to you?
I’ve never said gw2spidy is the only thing you need to be effective. It does however help, since you don’t have to gather and look up the price tendencies yourself.
And yes, soloing a dungeon and sell it afterwards is the most effective way in PvE to make gold. Also, I did correct myself: 5-20g per player, ergo 4* 5-20g.
Yes, but as I’ve said several times, traiding post flipping can offer the greatest revenue and the players who have 10k+ gold, didn’t got their gold through dungeon running.
I can do 20g per day running 6 different dungeons and I do need several hours to complete them. Don’t tell me you get less gold if you spend several hours traiding.You act as though there are these items with large profit margins that can constantly be sold to quickly make gold.
You act like those guys with 10k+ gold were always there or magically poofed out of the air.
Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
The last paragraph is an opinion.
Soloing dungeons is the most effective way in PvE to make gold, since you can sell the slots left at the end.
And no, enlighten me what you have to do that gw2spidy doesn’t, except searching the database for the most efficient way to flip.So exactly how much time do you think if takes to solo a dungeon? How long does it take to fill up a party? How much do they get from each person?
Think of it this way, if making a profit was as simple as looking up margin on gw2spidy, don’t you think everyone would be doing that and thus eliminating any profit to be made?
its not really that hard, but it is something many people are averse to. It is more than just gw2spidy, but gw2spidy cuts a great deal of the hard work out.
the dungeon soloing, is the most money THEY can make. Its only for select paths, but it pays out more and isnt on a daily timer.
And yeah it may suck compated to what TP people can make with skilled play, but thats kind of the point he is making.
Read the thread I’ve said it numerous of times…
Fine, just for you:
Normal earning formula: Set amount of gold * time spend = reward.
Traiding post flipping formula: Variable amount of gold * time spent = reward.
This means: No matter how much gold a dungeon runner has, if he runs an ADAP run, he gets around 50g per day.
The traiding post flipper however can get revenues based on the gold he has initially spent. Even if a flipper just starts with 2 gold and just gets 5% more gold every day, he will soon get more gold per day than a dungeon runner.
And please don’t say that’s not how it is because I can assure you that all those guys who have 10k+ gold haven’t done an ADAP run yet.
Let me try to simply my response to this, as you clearly still don’t understand certain things. It might be that American isn’t your primary language, so bear with me.
1) Profits are not rewards. Rewards are newly generated wealth that never existed in the game. Profits are “existing” wealth that’s being transferred between players, and the TP takes away 15% of the value, acting as a sink. Your example fails because you’re comparing two completely different things.
2) 5% of 2 Gold is 10 Silver. Dungeon runners make more money per hour than that. In fact, I can make that money simply by mining Mithril ore, and selling it to a merchant.
3) You have yet to provide a valid argument that’s based on facts. All your points are opinion based, and get trumped by the fact that the economy is working fine.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.
Can you solo a dungeon? It does seem so because, according to you, it requires way less skill than flipping the traiding post. Not to mention that gw2spidy does the most work for you.
And no, there shouldn’t be that disparity, since it shouldn’t give more reward than any other content of this game. The most efficient way should ge a mixture of all things: Do easy dungeons, sell some paths, farm some materials and flip some coins on the traiding post. Purely flipping the traiding post shouldn’t be the way to get as much gold as possible.Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
The last paragraph is an opinion.
Soloing dungeons is the most effective way in PvE to make gold, since you can sell the slots left at the end.
And no, enlighten me what you have to do that gw2spidy doesn’t, except searching the database for the most efficient way to flip.
It also doesnt take much more than watching a youtube guide on how to solo a dungeon, someone else already done the work for you. Another difference is that this is a linear and repetitive task because the AI doesnt behave randomly.
I will show you a different point of view:
You already conceded that flippers and speculators have a beneficial function to the economy. In order for prices to be close to equilibrium and to accelerate the process of finding a new price equilibrium , if a sudden demand spike sets in, a certain amount of flipping and speculating (“trading for profit”) has to be done per day.
Lets assume the global daily flipping volume is 1 million gold and the daily investments for speculation are 1 million as well. Flipping gives 15% (150k gold) profit, long term investments give 50% (500k gold).
Now i agree that flipping/speculating isnt the favourite gamemode of most players.
But the 650k gold of profits are up for grabs every day, they have to be consumed, otherwise the market goes more out of balance and profit margins get even higher.
if there are only 6.5k traders, they will make a daily profit of 100g but ifthere are 65k traders, they only make 10g profit per day.
Think of trading for profit as a dirty deed, an unwanted task by most people. It has a daily volume and a fixed profit pool. In order to meet the daily quota, those profits have to be distributed somehow. If only a few people do it on a daily basis, they get lots of profits but the more people do it and share the load, the less profits for everybody.
Its self regulation, quite simply.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
~~~snip~~~
One more thing. If you think it’s so easy to make money on the TP, why is it that you aren’t rich yourself?
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
Read the thread I’ve said it numerous of times…
Fine, just for you:
Normal earning formula: Set amount of gold * time spend = reward.
Traiding post flipping formula: Variable amount of gold * time spent = reward.
This means: No matter how much gold a dungeon runner has, if he runs an ADAP run, he gets around 50g per day.
The traiding post flipper however can get revenues based on the gold he has initially spent. Even if a flipper just starts with 2 gold and just gets 5% more gold every day, he will soon get more gold per day than a dungeon runner.
And please don’t say that’s not how it is because I can assure you that all those guys who have 10k+ gold haven’t done an ADAP run yet.Let me try to simply my response to this, as you clearly still don’t understand certain things. It might be that American isn’t your primary language, so bear with me.
1) Profits are not rewards. Rewards are newly generated wealth that never existed in the game. Profits are “existing” wealth that’s being transferred between players, and the TP takes away 15% of the value, acting as a sink. Your example fails because you’re comparing two completely different things.
2) 5% of 2 Gold is 10 Silver. Dungeon runners make more money per hour than that. In fact, I can make that money simply by mining Mithril ore, and selling it to a merchant.
3) You have yet to provide a valid argument that’s based on facts. All your points are opinion based, and get trumped by the fact that the economy is working fine.
1) You get gold. Gold is all that matters. People who do other activites on a ragular basis do also get gold, just way less.
2) Next day he has 5 gold, 10 silver to spend, the day after 5 gold 35 silver. Sonner than later he will make more gold than the one getting 50g per day.
3) It’s pretty hard to provide valid facts if you can’t look up how much gold players have made by flipping the traiding post, but you can take it as granted that the ones having multiple thousands of gold didn’t got them through doing ADAP runs.
At last, it’s not about the economy. It’s about how much one can earn through one activity.
You have absolutely no idea how much work and time a skilled slipper put into learning the market and how to flip efficiently, do you? You assume that someone can do it right off the bat, which if was the case, there would be no profit from flipping. And again, you saying that there must not be a disparity between those that flip and those that don’t is an opinion.
Can you solo a dungeon? It does seem so because, according to you, it requires way less skill than flipping the traiding post. Not to mention that gw2spidy does the most work for you.
And no, there shouldn’t be that disparity, since it shouldn’t give more reward than any other content of this game. The most efficient way should ge a mixture of all things: Do easy dungeons, sell some paths, farm some materials and flip some coins on the traiding post. Purely flipping the traiding post shouldn’t be the way to get as much gold as possible.Soloing dungeons is not efficient…
Rewards are not based on participants…If you think gw2spidy does most of the work then you really have no idea what most flippers have to do.
The last paragraph is an opinion.
Soloing dungeons is the most effective way in PvE to make gold, since you can sell the slots left at the end.
And no, enlighten me what you have to do that gw2spidy doesn’t, except searching the database for the most efficient way to flip.It also doesnt take much more than watching a youtube guide on how to solo a dungeon, someone else already done the work for you. Another difference is that this is a linear and repetitive task because the AI doesnt behave randomly.
I will show you a different point of view:
You already conceded that flippers and speculators have a beneficial function to the economy. In order for prices to be close to equilibrium and to accelerate the process of finding a new price equilibrium , if a sudden demand spike sets in, a certain amount of flipping and speculating (“trading for profit”) has to be done per day.
Lets assume the global daily flipping volume is 1 million gold and the daily investments for speculation are 1 million as well. Flipping gives 15% (150k gold) profit, long term investments give 50% (500k gold).Now i agree that flipping/speculating isnt the favourite gamemode of most players.
But the 650k gold of profits are up for grabs every day, they have to be consumed, otherwise the market goes more out of balance and profit margins get even higher.if there are only 6.5k traders, they will make a daily profit of 100g but ifthere are 65k traders, they only make 10g profit per day.
Think of trading for profit as a dirty deed, an unwanted task by most people. It has a daily volume and a fixed profit pool. In order to meet the daily quota, those profits have to be distributed somehow. If only a few people do it on a daily basis, they get lots of profits but the more people do it and share the load, the less profits for everybody.
Its self regulation, quite simply.
As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.
(edited by HHR LostProphet.4801)
As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.
Let’s say that doing solo dungeon runs and selling spots was the most profitable way to make gold followed by flipping. Would there no longer be an issue for you then?
~~~snip~~~
One more thing. If you think it’s so easy to make money on the TP, why is it that you aren’t rich yourself?
Basically because it’s boring as hell and I enjoy running dungeons with my guildies. That said I still look for the most efficient way of making gold. There are other reasons too but I don’t feel like formulating them now properly.
Read the thread I’ve said it numerous of times…
Fine, just for you:
Normal earning formula: Set amount of gold * time spend = reward.
Traiding post flipping formula: Variable amount of gold * time spent = reward.
This means: No matter how much gold a dungeon runner has, if he runs an ADAP run, he gets around 50g per day.
The traiding post flipper however can get revenues based on the gold he has initially spent. Even if a flipper just starts with 2 gold and just gets 5% more gold every day, he will soon get more gold per day than a dungeon runner.
And please don’t say that’s not how it is because I can assure you that all those guys who have 10k+ gold haven’t done an ADAP run yet.Let me try to simply my response to this, as you clearly still don’t understand certain things. It might be that American isn’t your primary language, so bear with me.
1) Profits are not rewards. Rewards are newly generated wealth that never existed in the game. Profits are “existing” wealth that’s being transferred between players, and the TP takes away 15% of the value, acting as a sink. Your example fails because you’re comparing two completely different things.
2) 5% of 2 Gold is 10 Silver. Dungeon runners make more money per hour than that. In fact, I can make that money simply by mining Mithril ore, and selling it to a merchant.
3) You have yet to provide a valid argument that’s based on facts. All your points are opinion based, and get trumped by the fact that the economy is working fine.
1) You get gold. Gold is all that matters. People who do other activites on a ragular basis do also get gold, just way less.
2) Next day he has 5 gold, 10 silver to spend, the day after 5 gold 35 silver. Sonner than later he will make more gold than the one getting 50g per day.
3) It’s pretty hard to provide valid facts if you can’t look up how much gold players have made by flipping the traiding post, but you can take it as granted that the ones having multiple thousands of gold didn’t got them through doing ADAP runs.
At last, it’s not about the economy. It’s about how much one can earn through one activity.
Wrong again.
1) Gold acquisition IS what matters. Newly created Gold is not treated the same as existing Gold. Unless you understand how economics works, it’s really hard to explain this to you. It could take dozens of pages of threads to teach players something as complicated as this. Maybe if you think about the difference between your government printing money, and money that’s exchanged between you and a store. One is newly generated currency that didn’t exist before. The other is existing currencies traded between two parties, in which case one party is taxed.
2) There’s no guarantee that a TP trader will continue to make money. He could make 50 Gold in a day, or he could lose 300 Gold. Dungeons reward items and Gold at the end, but if you fail, the Dungeon doesn’t take away Gold from your bank.
3) Someone running Arah all day makes more money than me. Just because 1% of the population can make a lot of money, doesn’t mean anything is broken. In fact, the economy is working well because of it. So until you can provide a solid argument against an economics expert like John Smith, your whole thread is based off of your own personal opinions that you don’t like that players make more money than you.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.Let’s say that doing solo dungeon runs and selling spots was the most profitable way to make gold followed by flipping. Would there no longer be an issue for you then?
It is already the most rewarding activity after flipping the traiding post. The problem is that traiding post flippers get way too much gold for what they do. They should get an even amount of gold like 200g per day maximum. That’s the margin a real hardcore dungeon seller could achieve. Flipping the traiding post requires skills that don’t belong to basic MMOs skills. Soloing a dungeon is the supreme discipline of basic MMO skills.
As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.Let’s say that doing solo dungeon runs and selling spots was the most profitable way to make gold followed by flipping. Would there no longer be an issue for you then?
It is already the most rewarding activity after flipping the traiding post. The problem is that traiding post flippers get way too much gold for what they do. They should get an even amount of gold like 200g per day maximum. That’s the margin a real hardcore dungeon seller could achieve. Flipping the traiding post requires skills that don’t belong to basic MMOs skills. Soloing a dungeon is the supreme discipline of basic MMO skills.
You missed what I was asking. If dungeon sellers made more gold than a TP flipper, would you care?
EDIT: And to follow up with that, what percentage of players do you think are able to do both?
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Wrong again.
1) Gold acquisition IS what matters. Newly created Gold is not treated the same as existing Gold. Unless you understand how economics works, it’s really hard to explain this to you. It could take dozens of pages of threads to teach players something as complicated as this. Maybe if you think about the difference between your government printing money, and money that’s exchanged between you and a store. One is newly generated currency that didn’t exist before. The other is existing currencies traded between two parties, in which case one party is taxed.
2) There’s no guarantee that a TP trader will continue to make money. He could make 50 Gold in a day, or he could lose 300 Gold. Dungeons reward items and Gold at the end, but if you fail, the Dungeon doesn’t take away Gold from your bank.
3) Someone running Arah all day makes more money than me. Just because 1% of the population can make a lot of money, doesn’t mean anything is broken. In fact, the economy is working well because of it. So until you can provide a solid argument against an economics expert like John Smith, your whole thread is based off of your own personal opinions that you don’t like that players make more money than you.
1) So your argumentation is that you’re allowed to get so much gold because you’re not creating new one? That’s as stupid as it can get as an argument.
2) Ten. Thousand. Gold. And more. Someone does seem to make reliable profit out of the traiding post.
3) If you earn less than 100g average per day then the problem I have with certain traiding post flippers doesn’t even apply to you. Go away! Leave!
As I’ve said before, it’s not about the market, it’s about the one player making much more money through flipping the traiding post than the one player soloing dungeons which is exhausting and requires a lot of skill or the one farming the materials you are flipping.
In terms of just watching a video, I can just repeat the question others have made so often: If it’s that simple, why don’t more people do it? If you are that certain that it is that easy, you can watch a solo guide if you like and try it. We can talk afterwards.Let’s say that doing solo dungeon runs and selling spots was the most profitable way to make gold followed by flipping. Would there no longer be an issue for you then?
It is already the most rewarding activity after flipping the traiding post. The problem is that traiding post flippers get way too much gold for what they do. They should get an even amount of gold like 200g per day maximum. That’s the margin a real hardcore dungeon seller could achieve. Flipping the traiding post requires skills that don’t belong to basic MMOs skills. Soloing a dungeon is the supreme discipline of basic MMO skills.
There is no valid basis for this suggestion. This is just another suggestion to punish TP players because of jealousy. It’s like me suggesting that Dungeons should be limited to 1 per day, because you have more fun than standing in town for hours. There should be an even amount of fun spread across all players.
TP trading is an integral part of this game. You can choose to do it, or you can choose to run Dungeons. Your personal feelings of not liking rich people is not, and never will be a valid argument for something.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
1) So your argumentation is that you’re allowed to get so much gold because you’re not creating new one? That’s as stupid as it can get as an argument.
Let’s address this shall we? The mere fact that you don’t understand the concept is one thing. But to call a factual argument “stupid” when you don’t even understand the argument to begin with is another.
It’s like when a child calls me a meanie because I tell them Santa Claus doesn’t exist.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
However my point still stands: traiding post flipping should not offer the greatest revenue in game.
It’s not. Anyone claiming flipping is the greatest revenue is a resounding failure in the game. For starters, yes you can make a gold here and there without much work, but in order to make the amount of money you’re complaining about, players have to have 10-20 times that much available. Take a look at Strength runes. They were 12g yesterday. They’re sitting at 16g as of now. That’s a 4g difference, enough that if I had a hundred gold or so, I’d have been able to make a nice amount of profit in as little as 24 hours. However, that’s only because I was taking advantage of a patch changing something.
To make the truly massive amounts of profit, it takes days and weeks to make hundreds of gold off transactions because you need to find a market to even get into. Then, you need the assets to purchase your supply to flip. If the markets then act adversely, you either make no money because the market stagnates, lose no money because you sold at cost+fees to get out, or lost money because the market crashed on you.
To top THAT off, the people you see posting on the forums bragging they made 500g off X material (mostly because they crashed that market before the post), dont brag about the 400-600g losses they made before they found that gold nugget. It further acerbates the problem because people like you see the bragging, dont understand the unstated losses behind, and in front of, that transaction. To make matters even worse, the reason is they can make that money is not because of some flaw in the tradepost (dont bring up automatic trading bullkitten either) giving these players an advantage. It’s because other players dont want to THINK when they sell and buy items. Flippers take advantage of shortcomings in player thinking to make money.
In short, Anet’s not going to fix a single thing because it’s not the trade post being an issue. Anet cant fix players not being smart, and why should they?