Guild Wars 2

Zenith.7301:

spoj.9672:

Dont know how anyone can say mesmers are unloved by devs. Mesmer is one of the tier 1 classes in both PvE and tPvP and WvW…. Not many classes can claim that. They are op, theres no denying that when you compare them to some of the other classes.

Mesmer is not a tier 1 class in PvE by any means unless you consider Lupicus and cof p1 the only PvE there is. In every other dungeon where you can’t reflect projectiles to damage the boss the mesmer is garbage and you can replace him with a warrior or guardian.

Have you not done a dungeon lately? Fotm, mesmer is tied with guards (focus skills reflect op). Coe, ta, arah, se, and cof are pretty much the only dungeons worth doing now and mesmer is required in any speed clearing group for any of those or any other dungeon (all melee + timewarp = 1 mes necessary for any run) that isn’t the usual spams. Mesmers aren’t just portal and feedback kittenes. They are also time warp, soi, and pulling kittenes. It’s also nice (sometimes) when their clones take boss aggro away form the team so they can dps without getting injured. Really the only dungeon path where they aren’t crazy useful is hotw p1 and that’s b/c they’re only pretty darn useful there.

There’s a reason why the “holy trinity” is mesmer and w/e it feels like grouping with. If warrior ever gets nerfed, it’ll be mesmer and thief or mesmer and ele or mes and guard (probably not that one).

Unless there is no 360° projectile reflection required you can just replace a mesmer with a guardian and even perform better. Mesmers make dungeon runs easier – but they are not a “good” class like warrior, guardian or particulary thief/ele. Their direct damage, movement and offensive support are simply bad.

Dub.1273:

Unless there is no 360° projectile reflection required you can just replace a mesmer with a guardian and even perform better. Mesmers make dungeon runs easier – but they are not a “good” class like warrior, guardian or particulary thief/ele. Their direct damage, movement and offensive support are simply bad.

They have their flaws. But I stand by my post. They are a tier 1 class in PvE. I hate seeing people say the devs dont care about mesmer. What about classes like necro and ranger? Those classes are pretty much useless in dungeons and in pvp they have only recently started to be addressed.

spoj.9672:

They have their flaws. But I stand by my post. They are a tier 1 class in PvE. I hate seeing people say the devs dont care about mesmer. What about classes like necro and ranger? Those classes are pretty much useless in dungeons and in pvp they have only recently started to be addressed.

I think it comes from the fact that every patch seems to bring new bugs to Mesmer that never get fixed, if they even get acknowledged at all. And they’re constantly being nerfed due to PvPers making crycry posts about how hard they are to fight. Greatsword is a mess right now and confusion is utterly worthless.

I agree that Mesmers are indispensable for speedclear groups but they do seem to get little love as time goes on.

Broadicea.8294:

spoj.9672:

They have their flaws. But I stand by my post. They are a tier 1 class in PvE. I hate seeing people say the devs dont care about mesmer. What about classes like necro and ranger? Those classes are pretty much useless in dungeons and in pvp they have only recently started to be addressed.

I think it comes from the fact that every patch seems to bring new bugs to Mesmer that never get fixed, if they even get acknowledged at all. And they’re constantly being nerfed due to PvPers making crycry posts about how hard they are to fight. Greatsword is a mess right now and confusion is utterly worthless.

I agree that Mesmers are indispensable for speedclear groups but they do seem to get little love as time goes on.

The thing is if those people looked at the other classes more closely they would see that other classes have that issue just as much, if not more than the mesmer. Necro’s when they do get changed, everything that changes has a new bug + the old bugs that never get fixed and they are usually pretty game changing/breaking. Other classes seem to get a lot more issues with each patch. The mesmer gets a few and some small nerfs here and there but atleast they dont get game breaking bugs which arent addressed till almost a year later (Necro downed hp).

Also some the bugs ive seen people complaign about on the mesmer forums are so trivial it seems pointless even mentioning them. Whereas other classes get much larger more obvious bugs and people dont bother throwing a fuss because theres no point. The devs will fit it when they fix it.

Broadicea.8294:

I agree that Mesmers are indispensable for speedclear groups

We actually managed to get times post patch that were kind of identical between a 2war/1ele/1mes/1guard group and 2guard/1ele/2war in our CoE farms. Since the last patch made portal useless for the typical CoE golem trick we thought we could get faster runs with another guard replacing the mes and using two tome of wrath (spawning one for the 5 sec quickness, leaving it immediately then having the other guard use it again after the first 5 sec of quickness).
Indispensable.. not so much. To replace temporal curtain pulls we have the guard use banish on hammer instead for the alpha fights, and greatsword pull for the first trash fight and the two golem in path 2 and 3 gate event.
The turret golem fight is definitively slower without a mesmer but everything else went faster with dps guards which is why the times were kind of identical. Since we stack might in a different way from the war stacking groups we don’t really have a use for signet of inspiration too.

If they were to nerf feedback into oblivion mesmers would really lose one of the major reason we take them to dungeons like arah. In arah the mesmer is nothing more than a feedback bot.

As for fractals 48 it’s been a while since the last time I’ve ran with a group that used a mes. A lot of the people I group with agree on the fact that we’d rather add another warrior (and have a 3 war / 2 guard group) than have a mes.

I would hardly call that class indispensable. The things that make it useful are borderline OP, and the less useful things are way less than OP and it’s very likely that the OPness is going to get hit hard by the nerf hammer because feedback does negate a couple fights in this game in a way that shouldn’t be fully negated. I do enjoy these lupicus speedkills a lot, but I am also willing to admit that this is almost certainly not the intended way for this fight, and that anet couldn’t possibly ignore how feedback completely bypasses a whole phase at the press of a button (okay, make that two phases when it’s a group as skilled as Dub’s.)

Yeah I suppose bringing a LH ele does negate the need for signet. I just like playing mine and don’t want them to be useless in dungeons because I’m not as good on ele to make up for it.

Bring your guardian then?

I stopped playing my mesmer many months ago when I realized my phantasm support spec was going to be useless, and that any DPS spec I tried out far underperformed against my teammates.

They need to do something about damage with the way fights are designed. Nerf guardian utility/boon uptimes, maybe touch warrior DPS a bit. Then design fights so there’s multitasking involved that also asks for something more than damage.

Like mobs that are only vulnerable to condition damage and need to be dealt with. And more boonstripping (give mobs random 25 might stacks and prot and fury to make mesmers and necros more valuable).

High vigor and endurance regen should be looked at, dodges are too plentiful outside the necro. It’s time toughness and vitality stats start gaining some value because you just can’t mitigate something with dodging.

Reduce the HP of bosses, but give them aoe damage auras that give value to stats like toughness and vitality. Introduce mechanics so that melee can’t just ball up on a boss on top of a reflect field and kill the boss in 1-2 minutes.

100% agree with Nikaido’s thoughts.

Nerf heavily a couple of mesmer skills and here you go, a completely useless class. Pathetic damage, little support, made of paper, lack of more than one viable setup.
Honestly, I didn’t see that much of a difference in times with another thief, warrior or guardian. Lolwarp and arguably signet are the only reasons why I’d bring/play a mesmer, since you don’t need the pull or reflects if you have a guardian or two (Lupicus aside).
That last nerf made it even more unresponsive, boring and awkward to play, and forced even more trait points deeper into the lines, as if mesmers didn’t have enough crappy choices already.
Meh. Lolwarp.

Zenith.7301:

Bring your guardian then?

I stopped playing my mesmer many months ago when I realized my phantasm support spec was going to be useless, and that any DPS spec I tried out far underperformed against my teammates.

They need to do something about damage with the way fights are designed. Nerf guardian utility/boon uptimes, maybe touch warrior DPS a bit. Then design fights so there’s multitasking involved that also asks for something more than damage.

Like mobs that are only vulnerable to condition damage and need to be dealt with. And more boonstripping (give mobs random 25 might stacks and prot and fury to make mesmers and necros more valuable).

High vigor and endurance regen should be looked at, dodges are too plentiful outside the necro. It’s time toughness and vitality stats start gaining some value because you just can’t mitigate something with dodging.

Reduce the HP of bosses, but give them aoe damage auras that give value to stats like toughness and vitality. Introduce mechanics so that melee can’t just ball up on a boss on top of a reflect field and kill the boss in 1-2 minutes.

This is one of the best assessments of combat mechanics issues I have read on this board. Kudos. The only other thing I would add is the issue with defiant, negating a good deal of the CC certain classes have access to, but rarely get to use much in PvE.