Guild Wars 2

oxtred.7658:

STRanger.5120:

Moral of the story is: Don’t sell dungeons if you don’t want to risk getting kicked. I think you should be happy that it’s not punished by Anet, not every company would tolerate this, at least in the past, where RPG genre was still alive….

Since some people get kicked by simply joining a lfg run, do you advice not using the lfg tool because you risk being kicked?
You forgot this was an MMOrpg. You know, with players interactions, and stuff like that.

If you get kicked instantly after joining a lfg group, do you lose anything? No
If you try to sell a dungeon path and get kicked instead, do you lose anything? Time invested

There is the difference you seek….
Also, it’s not an MMOrpg, that is dead for a long time. It’s more like MMOg for several years now…. Character development (leveling etc.) unfortunately doesn’t define RPG genre. Role-playing does, but that’s not needed, not even supported in modern MMO, therefore these games doesn’t deserve such mark imho.
I don’t want to upset or offend anyone, just stating my experience as a long-term MMO player and maybe a bit of my frustration from this fact which came out from the game development observation during last 20 years….

STRanger.5120:

oxtred.7658:

STRanger.5120:

Moral of the story is: Don’t sell dungeons if you don’t want to risk getting kicked. I think you should be happy that it’s not punished by Anet, not every company would tolerate this, at least in the past, where RPG genre was still alive….

Since some people get kicked by simply joining a lfg run, do you advice not using the lfg tool because you risk being kicked?
You forgot this was an MMOrpg. You know, with players interactions, and stuff like that.

If you get kicked instantly after joining a lfg group, do you lose anything? No
If you try to sell a dungeon path and get kicked instead, do you lose anything? Time invested

1/ I lose faith in humanity and realize people aren’t as clever as their LFG makes them think they are.

2/ I lose out on gold but keep the enjoyment. Then I realize I have the pleasure of getting back in the dungeon and reclaiming my instance

STRanger.5120:

oxtred.7658:

STRanger.5120:

Moral of the story is: Don’t sell dungeons if you don’t want to risk getting kicked. I think you should be happy that it’s not punished by Anet, not every company would tolerate this, at least in the past, where RPG genre was still alive….

Since some people get kicked by simply joining a lfg run, do you advice not using the lfg tool because you risk being kicked?
You forgot this was an MMOrpg. You know, with players interactions, and stuff like that.

If you get kicked instantly after joining a lfg group, do you lose anything? No
If you try to sell a dungeon path and get kicked instead, do you lose anything? Time invested

There is the difference you seek….
Also, it’s not an MMOrpg, that is dead for a long time. It’s more like MMOg for several years now…. Character development (leveling etc.) unfortunately doesn’t define RPG genre. Role-playing does, but that’s not needed, not even supported in modern MMO, therefore these games doesn’t deserve such mark imho.
I don’t want to upset or offend anyone, just stating my experience as a long-term MMO player and maybe a bit of my frustration from this fact which came out from the game development observation during last 20 years….

As an MMO player of about 16 years at this point, I’ve never played one where I wasn’t allowed to sell my services as a good player.

Even going back to Original Everquest pre kunark, people regularly sold escorts for traveling, it’s the same thing. Fast forward in that game to where you actually had dungeon type content and people were selling spots for people to afk and get rewards.

Being a mercenary in MMORPGs is not a new thing at all.

Jerus.4350:

As an MMO player of about 16 years at this point, I’ve never played one where I wasn’t allowed to sell my services as a good player.

Even going back to Original Everquest pre kunark, people regularly sold escorts for traveling, it’s the same thing. Fast forward in that game to where you actually had dungeon type content and people were selling spots for people to afk and get rewards.

Being a mercenary in MMORPGs is not a new thing at all.

I understand this point of view, and I’m quite happy that old-school players are still alive and playing (it’s different when someone write “selling a dungeon” and when another person writes “Got hired to clear this cave”, you know what I mean…).

However, the GW2 system is obviously not builded around this possibility and I seriously doubt that all of those “dungeon sellers” are actually has this type of approach to this activity (mercenary). As was proven before, dungeon selling is neither supported by Anet, nor punished, it’s on the seller’s own responsibility with the possibility to be scammed. That’s just the risk a seller has to take if he wants to sell I’m afraid…
But he has no right to complain at the forums about that because Anet made themselves clear about that already….

You know, there are mercenaries, but there are also frauds in the world

Sorry bud, but grieving is grieving, and those who do it should be punished. Your view that “it’s ok because I don’t like what these players are doing” is very immature.

dlonie.6547:

Sorry bud, but grieving is grieving, and those who do it should be punished. Your view that “it’s ok because I don’t like what these players are doing” is very immature.

I haven’t said that “It’s ok”.
I just said that seller has to count with that, because Anet said so. That’s different m8…

Also, some ppl may consider dungeon selling as the main cause of the difficulty to get a normal group for some dungeons (Arah), because the LFG is usually full of sellers and not enough regular groups. Just try to look at the problem from the other side also.

How many times is this going to come up….the presence of sellers on the LFG tool in no way affects the ability to get a group together. Seller LFGs are around longer because they take longer to fill. Spend 2-3 minutes watching the tool and you’ll notice that regular groups appear, fill, and disappear quickly — they just fill so much faster than the sellers (0.5-3 minutes vs 15+ minutes) that it seems like there are more sellers.

People who want to run the path won’t buy it. People who want to run it will post an LFG. If there’s not a group on the LFG that is doing what you want, make your own post.

STRanger.5120:

dlonie.6547:

Sorry bud, but grieving is grieving, and those who do it should be punished. Your view that “it’s ok because I don’t like what these players are doing” is very immature.

I haven’t said that “It’s ok”.
I just said that seller has to count with that, because Anet said so. That’s different m8…

Also, some ppl may consider dungeon selling as the main cause of the difficulty to get a normal group for some dungeons (Arah), because the LFG is usually full of sellers and not enough regular groups. Just try to look at the problem from the other side also.

The main cause of the difficulty to get a normal group is the lack of intelligence and social skills of the average GW2 player.

/thread

Dalanor.5387:

STRanger.5120:

dlonie.6547:

Sorry bud, but grieving is grieving, and those who do it should be punished. Your view that “it’s ok because I don’t like what these players are doing” is very immature.

I haven’t said that “It’s ok”.
I just said that seller has to count with that, because Anet said so. That’s different m8…

Also, some ppl may consider dungeon selling as the main cause of the difficulty to get a normal group for some dungeons (Arah), because the LFG is usually full of sellers and not enough regular groups. Just try to look at the problem from the other side also.

The main cause of the difficulty to get a normal group is the lack of intelligence and social skills of the average GW2 player.

/thread

Yeah, I forgot that one, you know, hope dies last…..

Just replace “GW2” with “MMO” and it’s perfect.

STRanger.5120:

oxtred.7658:

STRanger.5120:

Moral of the story is: Don’t sell dungeons if you don’t want to risk getting kicked. I think you should be happy that it’s not punished by Anet, not every company would tolerate this, at least in the past, where RPG genre was still alive….

Since some people get kicked by simply joining a lfg run, do you advice not using the lfg tool because you risk being kicked?
You forgot this was an MMOrpg. You know, with players interactions, and stuff like that.

If you get kicked instantly after joining a lfg group, do you lose anything? No
If you try to sell a dungeon path and get kicked instead, do you lose anything? Time invested

There is the difference you seek….
Also, it’s not an MMOrpg, that is dead for a long time. It’s more like MMOg for several years now…. Character development (leveling etc.) unfortunately doesn’t define RPG genre. Role-playing does, but that’s not needed, not even supported in modern MMO, therefore these games doesn’t deserve such mark imho.
I don’t want to upset or offend anyone, just stating my experience as a long-term MMO player and maybe a bit of my frustration from this fact which came out from the game development observation during last 20 years….

What if i get kicked right before endboss? This is griefing, right?

Because kicking a dungeon seller is exactly this, a kick before endboss.

oxtred.7658:

STRanger.5120:

oxtred.7658:

STRanger.5120:

Moral of the story is: Don’t sell dungeons if you don’t want to risk getting kicked. I think you should be happy that it’s not punished by Anet, not every company would tolerate this, at least in the past, where RPG genre was still alive….

Since some people get kicked by simply joining a lfg run, do you advice not using the lfg tool because you risk being kicked?
You forgot this was an MMOrpg. You know, with players interactions, and stuff like that.

If you get kicked instantly after joining a lfg group, do you lose anything? No
If you try to sell a dungeon path and get kicked instead, do you lose anything? Time invested

There is the difference you seek….
Also, it’s not an MMOrpg, that is dead for a long time. It’s more like MMOg for several years now…. Character development (leveling etc.) unfortunately doesn’t define RPG genre. Role-playing does, but that’s not needed, not even supported in modern MMO, therefore these games doesn’t deserve such mark imho.
I don’t want to upset or offend anyone, just stating my experience as a long-term MMO player and maybe a bit of my frustration from this fact which came out from the game development observation during last 20 years….

What if i get kicked right before endboss? This is griefing, right?

Because kicking a dungeon seller is exactly this, a kick before endboss.

Man, you’re acting like if I have said that it’s not, which I didn’t
The opinion of Anet in this case is clear hovewer.
Dungeon sellers are consciously exposing themselves to this grieving issue, it’s on their responsibility (Anet statement)
I dunno if Anet can/is willing to punish these griefers, so I guess an official statement would be appreciated. On the other side, nobody know what exactly happened in the OP case (I doubt he would admit that he behave wrongly to buyers or something like that….), so I guess if any action is taken by Anet, it could be considered as “supporting sellers”, which is not meeting the previous statement.

Based on what Chris Cleary did recently, I would say yes. Griefers are being punished.

The point is, everyone is consciously exposing themselves to the grieving issue. IF they don’t act for sellers, there’s no reason to protect buyers as well, nor anyone playing the game for that matter.

STRanger.5120:

Jerus.4350:

As an MMO player of about 16 years at this point, I’ve never played one where I wasn’t allowed to sell my services as a good player.

Even going back to Original Everquest pre kunark, people regularly sold escorts for traveling, it’s the same thing. Fast forward in that game to where you actually had dungeon type content and people were selling spots for people to afk and get rewards.

Being a mercenary in MMORPGs is not a new thing at all.

I understand this point of view, and I’m quite happy that old-school players are still alive and playing (it’s different when someone write “selling a dungeon” and when another person writes “Got hired to clear this cave”, you know what I mean…).

However, the GW2 system is obviously not builded around this possibility and I seriously doubt that all of those “dungeon sellers” are actually has this type of approach to this activity (mercenary). As was proven before, dungeon selling is neither supported by Anet, nor punished, it’s on the seller’s own responsibility with the possibility to be scammed. That’s just the risk a seller has to take if he wants to sell I’m afraid…
But he has no right to complain at the forums about that because Anet made themselves clear about that already….

You know, there are mercenaries, but there are also frauds in the world

They did make themselves clear.

They repeatedly stated that stealing dungeons was a bannable offense, last week there were at least 3 people banned for such activity.

It’s true there are frauds, but in my experience there are far more legitimate sellers than fraudulent ones.

The only bad part is how open to greifing ANet has let their game become, in many different ways. Not just selling but the entire group system in general for dungeons is one full of just unethical play as far as I’m concerned. The amount of people kicking for the smallest reasons or just to get guildies in or whatever is just pathetic to me, but ANet hasn’t made any moves to build a system that doesn’t encourage that so much.

While I’ve seen quotes where devs seem to not like selling, going from their recent activity here it seems they’ve accepted that it’s actually not a bad thing.

oxtred.7658:

The point is, everyone is consciously exposing themselves to the grieving issue. IF they don’t act for sellers, there’s no reason to protect buyers as well, nor anyone playing the game for that matter.

The entire possibility of grieving this way is bad group/dungeon design, but a lot of things in-game has the same issue (bad design/wrong implementation) and nothing is done about it even if the issue is here since the release (I know that this issue is not here from the release though).
But I’m not optimistic anymore, guess why?

Get your facts together before you decided to pollute threads with your lies. Anet bans players who grief the dungeon mercenaries. Their policy on griefing is clear and no where does it mention “unless you are selling dungeons, then we don’t care”.

STRanger.5120:

You know, there are mercenaries, but there are also frauds in the world

Are you just trolling, or are you really that obtuse?

I suggest you review this literature and actually educate yourself on ArenaNet’s policies on scamming and abusing their power to kick. Check it out

Michael Henninger.7451:

Now, in regards to getting booted -

It is not allowed and we will take action against accounts we find doing this. This is monitored in-game but if you are able to report please do so as thousands of eyes are better than a team of GMs.

The fact that there are people doing this simply sucks and needs to be corrected and I want to assure you that my team actively takes issues like these to production to raise awareness (as do other devs that frequent the forums). I have been approached by multiple leads on ways to correct and curb this behavior and the conversation is happening.

He also said this with regards to scamming:

Michael Henninger.7451:

2. We terminate accounts permanently for defrauding (scamming). If you are found to make a deal to trade (say, sword for gold) and not hold up your end we will investigate and terminate. If you are the victim of a scam you should submit a support ticket and provide what you lost and the time and date as accurately as you recall. This is usually all we need to research the event but we will ask you if we need more info. You do have a right to know the outcome of these investigations but be aware these take us a few days to resolve.

tldr: If you scam someone, the scammer will be banned but the victim will not be refunded. That’s the price they pay for the risk of not using the Trading Post. Joining a group and abusing the power to kick people out of their dungeon is also bannable.

Nokaru.7831:

STRanger.5120:

You know, there are mercenaries, but there are also frauds in the world

Are you just trolling, or are you really that obtuse?

I suggest you review this literature and actually educate yourself on ArenaNet’s policies on scamming and abusing their power to kick. Check it out

Michael Henninger.7451:

Now, in regards to getting booted -

It is not allowed and we will take action against accounts we find doing this. This is monitored in-game but if you are able to report please do so as thousands of eyes are better than a team of GMs.

The fact that there are people doing this simply sucks and needs to be corrected and I want to assure you that my team actively takes issues like these to production to raise awareness (as do other devs that frequent the forums). I have been approached by multiple leads on ways to correct and curb this behavior and the conversation is happening.

He also said this with regards to scamming:

Michael Henninger.7451:

2. We terminate accounts permanently for defrauding (scamming). If you are found to make a deal to trade (say, sword for gold) and not hold up your end we will investigate and terminate. If you are the victim of a scam you should submit a support ticket and provide what you lost and the time and date as accurately as you recall. This is usually all we need to research the event but we will ask you if we need more info. You do have a right to know the outcome of these investigations but be aware these take us a few days to resolve.

tldr: If you scam someone, the scammer will be banned but the victim will not be refunded. That’s the price they pay for the risk of not using the Trading Post. Joining a group and abusing the power to kick people out of their dungeon is also bannable.

Nice quoting there, thanks. I didn’t know that, I admit.
However, making a forum thread is not the proper way to report something, right?
So, OP, where’s the point of this thread?

You’re asking him that, 22 days after he made the thread?