Guild Wars 2

In every raid group I see it’s always got a chrono for the main tank, and the off-tank. Every other class has the ability to tank yet none are even considered for it because alacrity is so highly sought after. And when you see “chrono” on the raid LFG, you know they’re after a tank, and not dps.

It’s not like other classes don’t have anything to bring to the table either, guardians tanks could bring buffs, necro tanks can bring vampirism, warriors could try a hybrid PS tank, and so on. But no, the playerbase are so shortsighted it’s “chronotank or gtfo”

If alacrity could be changed in some way (like make it a self buff only), or just scrapped it would open up so much more opportunity for more players and classes to tank.

1. Tank doesn’t mean anything in GW2 except having a little extra toughness to take boss aggro. It doesn’t mean you’re a fully defensive build.
2. Chronomancers are taken primarily for Quickness, though Alacrity is also important. If you removed Alacrity, Chronomancers would still be taken for Quickness.
3. Chronomancers have better defensive utility on pure DPS builds thanks to Distortion-share, Signet of Inspiration, and Well of Precognition compared to other classes.
4. All of the other classes you mentioned pale in comparison to overall Chronomancer utility by a lot. You’d have to significantly beef up the other classes with offensive utility to rival a Chronomancer’s spot in raids. This could happen in the next expansion, by the way.

That and mesmer dps aint all that great.

Sounds like OP is talking about a class they know nothing about….

Rising Dusk.2408:

1. All of the other classes you mentioned pale in comparison to overall Chronomancer utility by a lot. You’d have to significantly beef up the other classes with offensive utility to rival a Chronomancer’s spot in raids. This could happen in the next expansion, by the way.

For that to happen other classes would need a mechanic similar too or better than distortion and signet of Ins.

If that does happen chrono just becomes the new low man on the pole until the nerf train happens because if any currently existing class gets that they will be superior to chrono in pretty much every way be it healing, tanking, damage, control, boon share.

Mesmer deals little dmg but has evades and blocks for months and they provide massive boost to dps through alacrity and quickness. So, why not put mesmer to tank and a save a spot for a dps? Oh and distort is broken.

Rising Dusk.2408:

1. Tank doesn’t mean anything in GW2 except having a little extra toughness to take boss aggro. It doesn’t mean you’re a fully defensive build.
2. Chronomancers are taken primarily for Quickness, though Alacrity is also important. If you removed Alacrity, Chronomancers would still be taken for Quickness.
3. Chronomancers have better defensive utility on pure DPS builds thanks to Distortion-share, Signet of Inspiration, and Well of Precognition compared to other classes.
4. All of the other classes you mentioned pale in comparison to overall Chronomancer utility by a lot. You’d have to significantly beef up the other classes with offensive utility to rival a Chronomancer’s spot in raids. This could happen in the next expansion, by the way.

Not nececeraly. If you remove alacrity theres a big group dos loss in dpsif we take the rest of the mesmer’s dos and add to that the group dps thanks to quickness we have the dmg values a mesmer brings. If without the alacrity a dps can deal as much dmg as the effective dmg the mesmer does then you can replace mesmer.

Jarial.3452:

Every other class has the ability to tank yet none are even considered for it because alacrity is so highly sought after.

Might+banners are just as sought after as alacrity, and yet you never see a warrior tank. Why? Because your argument doesn’t make any sense, tanking has absolutely nothing to do with alacrity or desirable boons.

Tanking meta in GW2 boils down to 2 main points:

1) Chronomancers can pick up the role of a tank without sacrificing anything
Look at optimal squad composition in fights without a dedicated tank (like sabetha or sloth). Now look at squad composition in fights where you do need a dedicated tank (like VG or xera). If you replace one of the team members with a (dedicated) tank, you’re basically giving up one spot. One person, who could be doing DPS, providing boons or healing. Meanwhile, if you follow qT’s meta guide, you will have the exact same composition for these bosses, except one person is going to tank on top of his usual job of providing boons/damage. You give up virtually nothing (1 infusion or 3 knight’s trinkets are a negligible DPS loss), but you still achieve the same thing. This composition is obviously better, because you compress 2 roles into 1 spot and effectively have 1 more contributing member of the group (contributing towards killing the boss faster and easier) compared to the group with a dedicated tank.

2) Chronomancers are best suited for tanking due to having a huge amount of active defenses
This might not be so much of a factor for qT and other high-skilled groups, which can survive in almost any conditions, but it definitely comes in handy for your average GW2 player. Tank often has to face more pressure than the rest of the group, so it’s usually necessary to have means of blocking the incoming damage. In mesmer’s case, the build which does that, just so happens to be the meta build (highest support/personal damage). Any other class would have serious trouble surviving on your standard metabuild and would have to sacrifice a lot of DPS/utility to get some extra blocks/evades, which gets us back to point 1: mesmer can tank without sacrificing anything.

So as it turns out, the playerbase is not shortsighted, it is in fact you. Because if you look at the bigger picture, groups which use chronotank, have the best overall performance. Thanks to role compression, you can get the highest amount of DPS and kill the boss faster. Other classes/builds, despite being perfectly capable of tanking, will require your group to make sacrifices and lose efficiency.

That being said, if you don’t care about the clear time and want to whip out your special snowflake tank build and you have 9 like-minded people, feel free to do so. Noone is stopping you. Raids provide more than enough leeway to be able to clear them with suboptimal builds. But you can’t expect 9 random stangers (who have their own lifes and plans) to put up with nonsense strats, which lose time and provide no real benefit.

Look at it this way…
SOMEBODY is going to have to stack some toughness to tank. Chronomancers already do the least amount of individual DPS, so them sacrificing some berserker gear to become to tank results in the least overall group dps loss. This is why you won’t see a PS tanking—the current meta uses CPS’s like two extra dps slots since they can provide might while still cranking out 27k+ dps in a lot of the fights.

While you’re right, anyone can tank, you’d still want to bring 2 Chronos for Quickness, Alacrity, and Distortion—all of which increase your overall group dps more than another pure dps class would have. So, you’d essentially just be gimping another dps slot by using them as a tank. I guess arguably, you could have a Druid tank while healing in Clerics or something, and that wouldn’t be a dps loss… But, their healing takes a pretty big hit by not being behind the group and usually it’s better to save your druids for Mechanics-type-stuff in the fight since their mobility is so strong anyways.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Might+banners are just as sought after as alacrity, and yet you never see a warrior tank. Why? Because your argument doesn’t make any sense, tanking has absolutely nothing to do with alacrity or desirable boons.

I’ve tanked as warrior at least once, and I seen at least one other warrior tank for vg (not sure if they got the kill or not), but u can definitely not say they don’t exist. Besides which, let me elucidate further and admit it was the Overseer boss I meant (W4b2) where tanking doesn’t for once rely on toughness either, so you don’t really have to sacrifice much to perform as one. Well it might be a fringe case as compared to the other encounters, but yah I do get the point that you was trying to make. Chronos mainly are tanks not because of their support/boons etc, but because of their low-cd survival skills as well as more freedom/leniency when it comes to the choice of their utilities.

Beside which, only about one in three encounters is really ‘tankable’ as it relate to your definition of fixating on highest toughness player… that’s not bad honestly.

Of those few encounters that are ‘tankable’, I feel like maybe only half of them requires any effort/thought to function as a tank .. definitely VG and xera, and maybe deimos to some extent, though I feel it’s a very tiresome and boring role for the last more so than a strenuous one.

So for example, gors no updraft there is basically nothing for a tank to do, other than slight positioning that anyone can manage.. the fight function almost as if there no tank. Then the Construct boss, you literally just need to pan the camera to watch for glowing stuff, hardly an encounter where a tank can shine.

I do agree on one point though.. most pugs tend to be adamantly fixated on the archetypal roles they are used to. So without a druid for kc, but a heal Rev as an orb pusher, they groan and throw a fit over not having druid boons/buffs and saying something like ‘this ain’t Deimos’.. but neglect to notice a war who’s stacking sub-par might or something. As well they almost always tend to ask for ‘druid’ or ‘druid kiter’ for Cairne when it makes no sense, when a Rev can do the job as well.

They are tendent to be stuck in the mould of what they perceive as optimal (e.g. perfectly reflected mirror comp) and hesitate to accommodate any changes to what has always worked for them. Which I guess is ok.. but not fanatically so. Best example I feel, is groups that post ‘lf1 chronotank w4 exp full clear’. Which doesn’t make sense rly, since only the very last boss (4th) is really ‘tankable’ as per the definition used above, and most of the party tends to disband way before that point anyway.

Sometimes I feel like pugs perfectly embody Prof. Carlo Cipolla’s Basic Laws of Human Stupidity. I’m just not sure whether they might violate the second law …

the third rule reminds me of the soldier’s eles and ravager’s necro that will join your group pretending to be zerker and viper respectivelly.

zealex.9410:

Not nececeraly. If you remove alacrity theres a big group dos loss in dpsif we take the rest of the mesmer’s dos and add to that the group dps thanks to quickness we have the dmg values a mesmer brings.

You’re not wrong, but no single class does remotely enough DPS to beat out applying quickness to an entire subgroup currently, and somehow I doubt ANet is ever going to make something that strong without immediately nerfing it.

Rising Dusk.2408:

zealex.9410:

Not nececeraly. If you remove alacrity theres a big group dos loss in dpsif we take the rest of the mesmer’s dos and add to that the group dps thanks to quickness we have the dmg values a mesmer brings.

You’re not wrong, but no single class does remotely enough DPS to beat out applying quickness to an entire subgroup currently, and somehow I doubt ANet is ever going to make something that strong without immediately nerfing it.

I dought that a chrono with quickness on 5 ppl gives more than 20-25 k dps. But still, quickness is a unique effect. An effect worth its own spec tbh who says they cant have a new spec for lets say guard be supporty deal more personal dmg thanks to the lack of alacrity while pulsing out quickness. Values will be the same between the specs for balance’s sake and bam no more chronos.

zealex.9410:

I dought that a chrono with quickness on 5 ppl gives more than 20-25 k dps. But still, quickness is a unique effect. An effect worth its own spec tbh who says they cant have a new spec for lets say guard be supporty deal more personal dmg thanks to the lack of alacrity while pulsing out quickness. Values will be the same between the specs for balance’s sake and bam no more chronos.

I think the breakeven is higher than that, but it varies for every composition and changes based on how cooldown-limited a class is that is paired with the Chronomancer. Chronomancers also bring other utility like Distortion-share that prevents the DPS classes from interrupting DPS rotations, and while that’s hard to put a number to is pretty significant in itself.

I do agree that the role of a quickness generator could certainly be usurped by a future elite spec, but Chronomancer is pretty awesome overall. Let’s also not forget that this discussion is entirely theoretical, anyway, because Chronomancers provide Alacrity uptime which pushes their value even higher.

Rising Dusk.2408:

zealex.9410:

I dought that a chrono with quickness on 5 ppl gives more than 20-25 k dps. But still, quickness is a unique effect. An effect worth its own spec tbh who says they cant have a new spec for lets say guard be supporty deal more personal dmg thanks to the lack of alacrity while pulsing out quickness. Values will be the same between the specs for balance’s sake and bam no more chronos.

I think the breakeven is higher than that, but it varies for every composition and changes based on how cooldown-limited a class is that is paired with the Chronomancer. Chronomancers also bring other utility like Distortion-share that prevents the DPS classes from interrupting DPS rotations, and while that’s hard to put a number to is pretty significant in itself.

I do agree that the role of a quickness generator could certainly be usurped by a future elite spec, but Chronomancer is pretty awesome overall. Let’s also not forget that this discussion is entirely theoretical, anyway, because Chronomancers provide Alacrity uptime which pushes their value even higher.

Distort should honestly be reworked skills like this break encounters and just make balancing harder.

I agree. While I wouldn’t think of distort as encounter-breaking (since they can be designed with this effect in mind), it’s definitely balance-breaking.

You know sure they can play around it (deimos aoe) but id much rather have it been balanced and changed rather than the devs building encounters that flat out ignores it.

How about we makde distort a dmg reduction and when you talent for aoe disrot on signet it gives aoe dmg reduction for the same dur with a longer idc. Base distort ofc.

Also i believe its the grandmaster in illusions make that one turn the dmg reduction into invul and refect.

This change would make distort an “oh kitten” button while keeping the flavour (If traited) and its no longer a “mechanics lul” button

There would be a million reasonable ways to change distort. Personally, I’d prefer if distortion sharing would be changed to aegis sharing. Invulnerable effects like distort should be reduced to the absolute minimum, i.e. few select skills like Renewed Focus, mesmer F4 or the engi elixir.

CptAurellian.9537:

There would be a million reasonable ways to change distort. Personally, I’d prefer if distortion sharing would be changed to aegis sharing. Invulnerable effects like distort should be reduced to the absolute minimum, i.e. few select skills like Renewed Focus, mesmer F4 or the engi elixir.

I dont believe that invuln shoudl be removed. It adds flavour and thats nice. But if you have a form of invuln it should always be personal and not a group effect. I feel kinda the same for aegis since its total dmg absorion for 1 isntance and i could lead to the same problems we have now. What i suggest will lead to overall more skillful play.

A big attack comes ppl are not in palce to survive it the healers top off everyone while the mesmers dish out the dmg reduction and afterr the attack everyone lives with 20-30% hp. I would also go as far as to in increase various cd’s in pve because of their group saving properties

It’s a question of personal preferences. I’m very much in favour of streamlining stuff, so I don’t like yet another special defensive effect. Without invuln, we already have three kinds of damage-negating effects: evade, block over a period of time and aegis as a single block. Likewise, we already have a damage-reducing effect, protection. I don’t see what the devs couldn’t do when focusing on those effects instead of creating another one. Besides, my suggestion would be a good opportunity to re-balance aegis, which is in a pretty bad spot overall.

Aegis is pretty boring flat out dmg avoidance is pretty bad tbh. It should be more cordinated and less “i can negate all the dmg”. That takes away from the challenge. I believe dmg reduction is the most balanced way which has the rist there “will i be able to tabk this better pop some cds and have the healers top us off and brace for impact” or have dmg avoidance which works on a positional lvl like guard shield crates a cone behind theguars in which if ppl stand in dont take dmg (with a hefty cd ofc). I also believe there should be mechanics you just have to be prepared for dmg you will recieve and try your best to take it and live.

Make stuff a rapid succession of smaller hits and aegis is no longer a “i can negate all the dmg”. Damage reduction is fine, too, but then it should probably be protection. I’m strictly against adding a kittenload of unique effects to the game that will just screw up balance, especially when it’s added to only a single class.

CptAurellian.9537:

Make stuff a rapid succession of smaller hits and aegis is no longer a “i can negate all the dmg”. Damage reduction is fine, too, but then it should probably be protection. I’m strictly against adding a kittenload of unique effects to the game that will just screw up balance, especially when it’s added to only a single class.

Yeah thats the thing blocks are 1 instance of dmg and they are quite boring. Tbh class effects and not boons would be easier to balance because they wouldnt be affected by boon durr. And tbh the combat could use less boons perma upkeeping boons makes encounters boring.

Right, less boon spam wouldn’t be bad either. But I don’t believe that will happen across the board, so for the time being I adapt my ideas to the current situation.

zealex.9410:

Rising Dusk.2408:

zealex.9410:

I dought that a chrono with quickness on 5 ppl gives more than 20-25 k dps. But still, quickness is a unique effect. An effect worth its own spec tbh who says they cant have a new spec for lets say guard be supporty deal more personal dmg thanks to the lack of alacrity while pulsing out quickness. Values will be the same between the specs for balance’s sake and bam no more chronos.

I think the breakeven is higher than that, but it varies for every composition and changes based on how cooldown-limited a class is that is paired with the Chronomancer. Chronomancers also bring other utility like Distortion-share that prevents the DPS classes from interrupting DPS rotations, and while that’s hard to put a number to is pretty significant in itself.

I do agree that the role of a quickness generator could certainly be usurped by a future elite spec, but Chronomancer is pretty awesome overall. Let’s also not forget that this discussion is entirely theoretical, anyway, because Chronomancers provide Alacrity uptime which pushes their value even higher.

Distort should honestly be reworked skills like this break encounters and just make balancing harder.

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it, it takes way above your avarage mesmer to handle that right, while upkeeping perma quickness/alacrity. Your avrage pug mesmer barely manages to put above 30% quickness and alacrity, let alone to know how and when to use distortion share properly. Also while the skill is very powerful it comes with high risk of wiping your entire team if you mess it up. (Dont forget you give just a 1s of distortion share on your squad, which leaves very little room for error). I dont see nothing wrong of having high risk/high reward type of skill at our disposal, which also makes us mesmer mains more then just quickness/alacrity bots.

Rain.7543:

zealex.9410:

Rising Dusk.2408:

zealex.9410:

I dought that a chrono with quickness on 5 ppl gives more than 20-25 k dps. But still, quickness is a unique effect. An effect worth its own spec tbh who says they cant have a new spec for lets say guard be supporty deal more personal dmg thanks to the lack of alacrity while pulsing out quickness. Values will be the same between the specs for balance’s sake and bam no more chronos.

I think the breakeven is higher than that, but it varies for every composition and changes based on how cooldown-limited a class is that is paired with the Chronomancer. Chronomancers also bring other utility like Distortion-share that prevents the DPS classes from interrupting DPS rotations, and while that’s hard to put a number to is pretty significant in itself.

I do agree that the role of a quickness generator could certainly be usurped by a future elite spec, but Chronomancer is pretty awesome overall. Let’s also not forget that this discussion is entirely theoretical, anyway, because Chronomancers provide Alacrity uptime which pushes their value even higher.

Distort should honestly be reworked skills like this break encounters and just make balancing harder.

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it, it takes way above your avarage mesmer to handle that right, while upkeeping perma quickness/alacrity. Your avrage pug mesmer barely manages to put above 30% quickness and alacrity, let alone to know how and when to use distortion share properly. Also while the skill is very powerful it comes with high risk of wiping your entire team if you mess it up. (Dont forget you give just a 1s of distortion share on your squad, which leaves very little room for error). I dont see nothing wrong of having high risk/high reward type of skill at our disposal, which also makes us mesmer mains more then just quickness/alacrity bots.

Raids and tier 4 fractals are not for your average mesmer then. I also never said i dislike high risk high reward skills amd playstyle. Just goving the trait that shares distort a 60 sec icd should do the trick.

Rain.7543:

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it.

I too enjoy statements filled with contradiction.

It’s not OP, it just allows me to completely ignore intended design!

Come on man.

I also find kinda hyporcitical ppl asking for harder content while asking for broken skills to exist that take all the challenge away.

TexZero.7910:

Rain.7543:

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it.

I too enjoy statements filled with contradiction.

It’s not OP, it just allows me to completely ignore intended design!

Come on man.

Where is the contradiction? It allows you to bypass a game mechanic (not ignore it. With the pinpoint timing required, its not ignoring. You need to be very highly skilled and paying attention and reacting to the tells, which means you are bypassing not ignoring), that doesn’t make it broken.

Well, technically one guy bypasses the mechanic, four ignore it.

OriOri.8724:

TexZero.7910:

Rain.7543:

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it.

I too enjoy statements filled with contradiction.

It’s not OP, it just allows me to completely ignore intended design!

Come on man.

Where is the contradiction? It allows you to bypass a game mechanic (not ignore it. With the pinpoint timing required, its not ignoring. You need to be very highly skilled and paying attention and reacting to the tells, which means you are bypassing not ignoring), that doesn’t make it broken.

Oh mesmers you make me chuckle. It’s somehow highly skilled to press a button on time. Something every class does on a daily basis.

Here’s how it a contradiction, the design of mechanics is for them to be executed upon, not ignored with a single button. You can say what you want but when 4 people and literally ignore mechanics that are intended to kill (or be substantially damaging) that’s when it becomes a walking contradiction.

The issue is that encounters get trivialised and raidbosses are turned into dps golems because of how powerfull this skill is. Regardless of the timing a skill should bot have this kimd of power.

I fail to see how Distortion-sharing is any more or less broken than something like Shield of Courage or even Well of Precognition allowing others to “ignore” mechanics in similar ways. These things aren’t broken or OP in my opinion, they’re expected high-cost, cooldown-limited, team-protecting skills.

Aegis is weaker than distort. It only block 1 instance of dmg. Meanwhile distort can avoid multiple ones. Distort also foesnt have this " high cd" that you speak of. I can chain distorts with phantam summons and soi and avoid key attacks. Theres also “no cost” simce we dont have anykomd of resource)))))

Rising Dusk.2408:

These things aren’t broken or OP in my opinion, they’re expected high-cost, cooldown-limited, team-protecting skills.

I wouldn’t mind the existence of such skills (but then in more than a single class), reminds me a bit of the good old combo Divine Shield + whatever the damage transfer suicide skill from WotLK was called. However, distortion share is neither high-cost nor is it really cooldown-limited.

Shield of Courage blocks all attacks for up to 5 allies in range of the skill for 3 seconds untraited. That’s already better than Distortion sharing, which is 1 second sharing. I realize that multiple signets can trigger this effect as well, but at that point you’re heavily traiting in such a way so as to maximize the number of distortions. You, as a mesmer, give up a lot of DPS to be able to achieve that many distortions (the Inspiration specialization itself is a large DPS loss).

Don’t get me wrong, invulnerability is obviously stronger than blocking, but not many things in raids are unblockable, and at least in the case of Aegis it is very easily applied by certain classes in mass if they pick a trait or two. The reason Mesmer gets this stuff “easily” is largely because its damage is already bad in order to maintain quickness, and thus it doesn’t lose much to go all the way.

Tbh i dont recall which skill is shield of courage. But theres alot more attacks tht bypass blocks and blocks are a universal mechanic. And no taking illusions is not such a hyge dps increase. Mesmer has already a massive amaount of support and contril due to interupts cc aegis reflects stealth portal and the list goes on…

Rising Dusk.2408:

I fail to see how Distortion-sharing is any more or less broken than something like Shield of Courage or even Well of Precognition allowing others to “ignore” mechanics in similar ways. These things aren’t broken or OP in my opinion, they’re expected high-cost, cooldown-limited, team-protecting skills.

You do remember pre-cog was changed to aegis yes ?
I certainly hope you also remember what it was before aegis and why it was changed. Hint, it wasn’t for PvP reasons like most skills.

TexZero.7910:

You do remember pre-cog was changed to aegis yes ?
I certainly hope you also remember what it was before aegis and why it was changed. Hint, it wasn’t for PvP reasons like most skills.

I am well aware. 3 seconds of AOE invulnerability on a 45 second cooldown (coupled with a stunbreak) with zero trait investment is far superior to 1 second of AOE invulnerability on a 50 second cooldown with potential additional applications every so often if you invest an additional two traits and pick a whole specialization to support it. This isn’t even considering that Distortion-sharing existed at the same time as the old Well of Precognition, so you could do both together.

TexZero.7910:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I fail to see how Distortion-sharing is any more or less broken than something like Shield of Courage or even Well of Precognition allowing others to “ignore” mechanics in similar ways. These things aren’t broken or OP in my opinion, they’re expected high-cost, cooldown-limited, team-protecting skills.

You do remember pre-cog was changed to aegis yes ?
I certainly hope you also remember what it was before aegis and why it was changed. Hint, it wasn’t for PvP reasons like most skills.

Those aren’t even comparable, and if you think they are I don’t know how to help you.

Rising Dusk.2408:

TexZero.7910:

You do remember pre-cog was changed to aegis yes ?
I certainly hope you also remember what it was before aegis and why it was changed. Hint, it wasn’t for PvP reasons like most skills.

I am well aware. 3 seconds of AOE invulnerability on a 45 second cooldown (coupled with a stunbreak) with zero trait investment is far superior to 1 second of AOE invulnerability on a 50 second cooldown with potential additional applications every so often if you invest an additional two traits and pick a whole specialization to support it. This isn’t even considering that Distortion-sharing existed at the same time as the old Well of Precognition, so you could do both together.

Apples to Apples they both did the same thing, and if one instance is considered to be unhealthy enough for the gamestate to be changed, it’s very safe to say that the other isn’t too far behind due to it doing the exact same thing.

Rising Dusk.2408:

far superior to 1 second of AOE invulnerability on a 50 second cooldown with potential additional applications every so often if you invest an additional two traits and pick a whole specialization to support it.

Effectively, it’s something like a 12 second CD, that’s relevant. The investment for that isn’t really high.

TexZero.7910:

Apples to Apples they both did the same thing, and if one instance is considered to be unhealthy enough for the gamestate to be changed, it’s very safe to say that the other isn’t too far behind due to it doing the exact same thing.

Anet decided to nerf Precog because it—in addition to PvE issues—single-handedly turned Chronomancer into an unkillable bunker in PvP. Because Distortion-share as we know it in PvE requires heavy trait investment, it’s never as prevalent in competitive modes because you lose other key traits to achieve it. If Distortion-share required no traits to achieve at the current frequency, I’d agree with you. That it requires so many, however, means I completely disagree with you. You give up a lot to pull it off.

CptAurellian.9537:

Effectively, it’s something like a 12 second CD, that’s relevant. The investment for that isn’t really high.

- Domination Specialization
- Inspiration Specialization
- Illusionary Inspiration Trait
- Blurred Inscriptions Trait

You lose 15-20% personal DPS making these selections. If you miss out on any part of these requirements, the only Distortion you can share (assuming you still have Inspiration) is on a 50 second cooldown.

If 15-20% chrono damage is expensive to you, we clearly have different ideas of what’s expensive. Besides, it’s not as if the II trait didn’t yield other massive advantages apart from granting distortion.

The meta makes concessions for Magi Druids that deal 1.5k DPS, a lower DPS point for Chronomancers, and more, all of which is fine. Just remember that the damage has to get made up elsewhere due to a conscious sacrifice of damage for increased defensive utility. Next thing you know someone will post a thread where Lunar Impact is OP because it can zero-to-full an entire subgroup SMH.

Here is problem.
1. Usually the class that tanks doesn’t bring high dps.
2. Mesmers are always needed due to alacrity/quickness.
3. Mesmers generally have low dps.

Conclusion? Combine 3 in 1: bring mes tank. That way you won’t have 3 characters in raids with low dps but only 2 leaving another spot for dps -> faster kill.

Additionally mes bring tools like no other class has – aoe invul which allows to ignore some mechanics completely (see VG green circle).

Rising Dusk.2408:

TexZero.7910:

You do remember pre-cog was changed to aegis yes ?
I certainly hope you also remember what it was before aegis and why it was changed. Hint, it wasn’t for PvP reasons like most skills.

I am well aware. 3 seconds of AOE invulnerability on a 45 second cooldown (coupled with a stunbreak) with zero trait investment is far superior to 1 second of AOE invulnerability on a 50 second cooldown with potential additional applications every so often if you invest an additional two traits and pick a whole specialization to support it. This isn’t even considering that Distortion-sharing existed at the same time as the old Well of Precognition, so you could do both together.

Actually the original Well of Precognition that came with launch of HoT applied evasion. And this was broken in PvP in the bunker meta. They changed it to distortion in a quick fix that wasn’t really thought through, BECAUSE the evasion was broken, and distortion prevents capture-point contribution, so when you used the distortion-well, you lost the point that you were defending.
Only after that they changed it to aegis and stability.

Lendruil.9061:

Rising Dusk.2408:

TexZero.7910:

You do remember pre-cog was changed to aegis yes ?
I certainly hope you also remember what it was before aegis and why it was changed. Hint, it wasn’t for PvP reasons like most skills.

I am well aware. 3 seconds of AOE invulnerability on a 45 second cooldown (coupled with a stunbreak) with zero trait investment is far superior to 1 second of AOE invulnerability on a 50 second cooldown with potential additional applications every so often if you invest an additional two traits and pick a whole specialization to support it. This isn’t even considering that Distortion-sharing existed at the same time as the old Well of Precognition, so you could do both together.

Actually the original Well of Precognition that came with launch of HoT applied evasion. And this was broken in PvP in the bunker meta. They changed it to distortion in a quick fix that wasn’t really thought through, BECAUSE the evasion was broken, and distortion prevents capture-point contribution, so when you used the distortion-well, you lost the point that you were defending.
Only after that they changed it to aegis and stability.

I never said original iteration for a reason. We know the original iteration was busted because of PvP. The second iteration was busted entirely in PvE for the exact same reason why distortion sharing is. You can ignore most mechanics. Additionally until Anet has a new counter to it in PvE there is no equivalent to be made between it and block as many things are unblockable.

TexZero.7910:

OriOri.8724:

TexZero.7910:

Rain.7543:

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it.

I too enjoy statements filled with contradiction.

It’s not OP, it just allows me to completely ignore intended design!

Come on man.

Where is the contradiction? It allows you to bypass a game mechanic (not ignore it. With the pinpoint timing required, its not ignoring. You need to be very highly skilled and paying attention and reacting to the tells, which means you are bypassing not ignoring), that doesn’t make it broken.

Oh mesmers you make me chuckle. It’s somehow highly skilled to press a button on time. Something every class does on a daily basis.

Here’s how it a contradiction, the design of mechanics is for them to be executed upon, not ignored with a single button. You can say what you want but when 4 people and literally ignore mechanics that are intended to kill (or be substantially damaging) that’s when it becomes a walking contradiction.

Apparently you arent mesmer player, or never were especially in raids. Otherwise you’d know how wrong you are, mate. If it were just about pressing a button in time everyone would do it and there wouldnt be such shortage of chronotanks now would it?

Now since you like to play ignorant let me open your eyes. Go to qT website and please take a good look on the basic mesmer rotation. (The one posted is written is the simplest one. Some of us use even more harder ones). Now tell me – can you keep up flawlessly that same rotation and maintain perma quickness and alacrity on yourself and your subgroup while keeping in mind your cd’s and adjusting them with the said mechainics distortion share allows you to bypass? Knowing how and where to place your wells is another thing you need to keep in mind. (Not as easier, as it sounds sometimes. In pugs mostly you have people running around like headless chickens). All this while keeping in mind how to properly position the boss you tank, block and avoid the most dmg so you dont strain your healers? Please dont give me examples like Gorse and KC. How about Xera? Where if you position her wrong all that juicy condis you highly skilled players stacked on her with your 1 finger rotation will convert to boons and your squad will wipe? If you cant do that, dont talk of stuff you have zero knowledge of and experience with…

If you got my point you will realise its faaaar away from pressing a button in time. There is a lot of things to consider and keep in mind. As a mesmer main, trust me on this that I spend 6 months doing raids and practice in the golem area to get to the level i am right now, where i can flawlessly perform all of this above. There is a reason good chronos are generally in good guilds and static groups, while in pugs you have mostly such that copied qT build, without doing one practice in the golem room and struggle to do even 20-30 quickness uptime, let alone proper rotations and distortion shares.

But hey its all about a press of a button right? Let me guess – you play cps or cranger? At most tempest. Yea probably…..