CoF P1 Elitism, gold farmers and efficiency.

CoF P1 Elitism, gold farmers and efficiency.

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Posted by: Harrason.1429

Harrason.1429

I understand that there’s a similar discussion thread going on with the OP listing his negative experience in a group resulting in a kick even though he was the one who posted in the LFG website.

I however, am not here to complain about my experiences, as people choose how to run their groups as they see fit. Rather, I am extremely concerned about the elitism surrounding this particular path out of every other dungeon out there, and that includes FotM. I am not talking about the token runs here, as they are perfectly fine, but the groups that utilize it for gold farming.

In extremely fast groups one would earn about 6 to 7g per hour, and that is not including possible exotics/rares and molten cores/lodestones. Depending on where people’s sights are, this is considered “the fastest gold/hr I’ve ever earned in my GW2 career” to “far from enough to afford me that precursor that i need”, and that is also what I would like to highlight on.

Why is it necessary for people to show elitism? Why do they want to do it as fast as possible? There may well be a reason, and most do it for the grind of a legendary. There are probably other reasons, but the core reward is not disputed, everyone does it for the gold.

Elitism happens in almost every MMO, and there is no way to get around it. However, ANet themselves made every class capable of support, damage control, damage dealing and healing. All for a reason. While there have been countless times where groups are asking for guardians for their sheer damage control utility, and mesmers for their unique abilities, asking for 4 warriors in a 5 man group calls for major alarms.

People may wish to stay competitive in this field, and hardcore people who have not played warriors yet but would want to farm for their legendaries would call their classes into question. “I love my class, but when it comes to gold farming, its just not good enough. I need a good class, and that’s a warrior”. What may result is what a lot of people dread the most coming into GW2 from other MMOs such as the “most famous MMORPG that you shall not name in this forum”.

This elitism is not the players’ fault, as this is something they discovered, and something that they do as the game made it so. Therefore, their reactions and the actions they do in regards to recruiting for their dungeons groups and the actual dungeon runs are absolutely valid, from the point of a gamer. The question is, ArenaNet, what would happen if this remains the way it is in the long run?

Harrason Xez – Warrior/Yunomiko – Mesmer
Triskaidekaphobia – [XIII] – Maguuma

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Posted by: Kid Taylor.5479

Kid Taylor.5479

First, I would like to contest the assumption that you can make 6-7 gold per run. The fastest recorded CoF 1 run is seven minutes, with a range of a seven minute low to a 9+ minute high for speed runs.

Let’s assume that you are able to do it at the fastest speed. A base CoF 1 run would net 15+21 silver from bosses. Throw in 5s for the chests that appear. So you have around 40 silver per run at base.

Assuming you run consecutively, you would be able to manage 8 runs in an hour, which will net you a profit of 40 * 8 + X where X is the silver from dungeon completion.

Now, if you run it consecutively, you might have noticed that the silver rewards for completion diminish after every run, from 26 > 21 > 13 and so on so forth. You are simply not able to reach 6-7 gold even if completion silver did not diminish. At most you would be able to earn half that amount, at max 4g, diminishing rapidly after first hour.

My question now is, is this an honest mistake? Or has there been something wrong with my calculations?

I do think there is something wrong with how people are requesting for 4x warriors and 1x mesmer, but what exactly is your point? That the existence of such groups negate the existence of other groups which farm CoF 1? There is high demand for such groups and yet there is nothing that prevents you from forming such a team. The only difference is roughly having a 7~9 minute run extended to a 12~15 minute run. Besides, CoF 1 will be changed in the next patch anyway.

There is nothing “competitive” about running dungeons, no speed clear scoreboards, no killboards at the end, no dps race. You are free to form your own groups as you see fit. Bearing this in mind, you are not losing out on anything at all. The only problem that may arise might be from 1) extremely extremely low takeup rates to farm path 1 without that specific composition (highly unlikely, and would have to be absymally low to justify a change) or 2) Prices of Omnomberry MF/Gold food goes up dramatically, speed running will be justified due to high cost (likely, since prices have been rising).

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Posted by: wookalar.8952

wookalar.8952

@kid, you’re not taking into effect drops. Running 7min groups, I’ve made around 7g/hr after selling greens/blues. That’s not taking into effect cores that dropped a swell since I keep them. Also not taking into effect Rares since I salvage them for ecto.

Nanuuk (80 Mes), Guardian Nuuk (80 Guard),
Warrior Nuuk (80 War)
[ALS], Anvil Rock

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Posted by: Harrason.1429

Harrason.1429

First, I would like to contest the assumption that you can make 6-7 gold per run. The fastest recorded CoF 1 run is seven minutes, with a range of a seven minute low to a 9+ minute high for speed runs.

Let’s assume that you are able to do it at the fastest speed. A base CoF 1 run would net 15+21 silver from bosses. Throw in 5s for the chests that appear. So you have around 40 silver per run at base.

Assuming you run consecutively, you would be able to manage 8 runs in an hour, which will net you a profit of 40 * 8 + X where X is the silver from dungeon completion.

Now, if you run it consecutively, you might have noticed that the silver rewards for completion diminish after every run, from 26 > 21 > 13 and so on so forth. You are simply not able to reach 6-7 gold even if completion silver did not diminish. At most you would be able to earn half that amount, at max 4g, diminishing rapidly after first hour.

My question now is, is this an honest mistake? Or has there been something wrong with my calculations?

I do think there is something wrong with how people are requesting for 4x warriors and 1x mesmer, but what exactly is your point? That the existence of such groups negate the existence of other groups which farm CoF 1? There is high demand for such groups and yet there is nothing that prevents you from forming such a team. The only difference is roughly having a 7~9 minute run extended to a 12~15 minute run. Besides, CoF 1 will be changed in the next patch anyway.

There is nothing “competitive” about running dungeons, no speed clear scoreboards, no killboards at the end, no dps race. You are free to form your own groups as you see fit. Bearing this in mind, you are not losing out on anything at all. The only problem that may arise might be from 1) extremely extremely low takeup rates to farm path 1 without that specific composition (highly unlikely, and would have to be absymally low to justify a change) or 2) Prices of Omnomberry MF/Gold food goes up dramatically, speed running will be justified due to high cost (likely, since prices have been rising).

My entire point about this post is not to take an absolute stand and saying “You guys really need to change it ASAP, this sucks for me”, but to actually get ANet to know about the latest situation regarding CoF 1 if they haven’t and they should take action if they deem it fit.

On hindsight, I am also doing this to get feedback for ANet themselves, from the experienced dungeon runners to newbies and to gold farmers, in that sense, I’ve achieved my aim, at least from you.

Still, I am very interested in what you’ve said about CoF 1 being changed in the next patch. Could you please link it in this thread? That would be immensely helpful.

Harrason Xez – Warrior/Yunomiko – Mesmer
Triskaidekaphobia – [XIII] – Maguuma

(edited by Harrason.1429)

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Posted by: wookalar.8952

wookalar.8952

All they’ve said about dungeons is that you will no longer be able to WP when your party members are in combat (so no WP zerging). Also hrouda said that he changed CoF2’s magg placing bomb event to compensate.

However, I wouldn’t be surprised if they gated the bridge part in p1 to force you to do the bridge event and slow down the run by maybe 2-3 mins.

Also, CoE runs are near as lucrative and sometimes more so with a knowledgable group. The difference is its tougher. Just 1 charged core can make your run with the current prices. I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing CoE p1 speed farms start going up since Alpha is kinda easy on that path.

Nanuuk (80 Mes), Guardian Nuuk (80 Guard),
Warrior Nuuk (80 War)
[ALS], Anvil Rock

(edited by wookalar.8952)

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Posted by: Strontius.6478

Strontius.6478

At times like this it would be useful to have a damage meter so we could quantify the dps of various professions and builds to determine if warriors really are that much better, or if it’s just our perception.

From personal experience, though, I have a feeling that warriors have the best burst dps, and as a result shine in short encounters under 30 seconds like you see in CoF path1. If you drop banners, buffs and quickness it’s easy to reach 25 stacks of might as a GS warrior for a short period of time and lots of vulnerability on your target.

Whenever I do speed runs I don’t mind taking other professions if they’re properly geared and experienced, but I can see why people want to take only warriors.

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Posted by: Phoenix.7845

Phoenix.7845

Why is it necessary for people to show elitism?

Show elitism how exactly? Is having a warrior with full cof gear and zerker exotics elite?

Why do they want to do it as fast as possible?

If someone can do cof p1 in ~6 minutes why would he want to do it slower?

A base CoF 1 run would net 15+21 silver from bosses. Throw in 5s for the chests that appear. So you have around 40 silver per run at base.

Not true. With 30% more money cookie you get 13 silver from first boss, 10 silver from chest after acolyte event and 20 silver from last boss. Also you get ~2 bags which give ~3 silver and 2,6 silver for completing (at full DR). this gives about 52 silver per run and when selling trash it goes up to ~60 silver per run.

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Posted by: tyu.9470

tyu.9470

btw it is not just about making it faster but easier at same time. Like 1st boss lives longer than 10 seconds you get the add + the boss actually does some nice damage. 4x warr 1x mesmer groups will see people get downed after 15 secs or so.

I dont get why is this a problem. We are playing a game that leveling a char takes a few hours and gold (not 24 hours i promise.) ALMOST every game will have a meta that some classes are better at some stuff. This meta can change by nerfs and buffs but trust me groups will always be like this.

Just level a warrior and be done with it. When they change the meta.. get the next best thing. That is how farming is done. If you expect to do everything on 1 class, you can’t expect people be okey with that. On another perceptive:

What is up with all the spvp elitism? Why nobody takes warriors seriously? Yea you win less but don’t be an elitist why all groups look for a couple guardian and 1 necro 100%?

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

Waiting till anet makes cof harder for average joe who doesn’t even know there’s a dodge button. Ah, the outcry will be soothing. Most of those “elitists” need stability at final boss, they should be kicked or bring more dps skills, afterall that’s what CoF1 is about.

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Posted by: tyu.9470

tyu.9470

Ha! totally agree on that haviz, i don’t even farm cof since it is not even that good.. but if i have to farm with a pug i’ll go cof over any other place..so easy even my cat can do it.

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Posted by: Harrason.1429

Harrason.1429

Why is it necessary for people to show elitism?

Show elitism how exactly? Is having a warrior with full cof gear and zerker exotics elite?

Why do they want to do it as fast as possible?

If someone can do cof p1 in ~6 minutes why would he want to do it slower?

A base CoF 1 run would net 15+21 silver from bosses. Throw in 5s for the chests that appear. So you have around 40 silver per run at base.

Not true. With 30% more money cookie you get 13 silver from first boss, 10 silver from chest after acolyte event and 20 silver from last boss. Also you get ~2 bags which give ~3 silver and 2,6 silver for completing (at full DR). this gives about 52 silver per run and when selling trash it goes up to ~60 silver per run.

You are probably someone who farms CoF P1 regularly. Thanks for your opinion. Whether that is considered elitism or otherwise lies in each individual, and for the people are well familiar with the way CoF P1 farms are run, usually, they would have a high sense of expectations, not just of themselves, but of others, and it is treated as the norm, in part due to the environment you guys run in, it is not elitism. However, it probably is, to an average player.

As for the 6 min runs, you are absolutely right about that. It is not your fault precisely, as I’ve mentioned. This is content design, and ANet made it as such. It is ANet that allows you to run CoF in 6 minutes. You have done nothing wrong, and it is in your nature to want to run things efficiently.

Waiting till anet makes cof harder for average joe who doesn’t even know there’s a dodge button. Ah, the outcry will be soothing. Most of those “elitists” need stability at final boss, they should be kicked or bring more dps skills, afterall that’s what CoF1 is about.

To be honest, quite a lot of CoF P1 isn’t about killing, but actually skipping. Other then the first section in which you have to clear out the guards and the turrets, you are only required to actually kill the Acolytes during the rescue section, apart from the bosses. This is why CoF P1(and P2 to a reasonable extent as well as other dungeons with short times) can be ran so quickly. Rather than making it harder, a better solution would actually be creating more events that are not skip-able.

Harrason Xez – Warrior/Yunomiko – Mesmer
Triskaidekaphobia – [XIII] – Maguuma

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

To be honest, quite a lot of CoF P1 isn’t about killing, but actually skipping. Other then the first section in which you have to clear out the guards and the turrets, you are only required to actually kill the Acolytes during the rescue section, apart from the bosses. This is why CoF P1(and P2 to a reasonable extent as well as other dungeons with short times) can be ran so quickly. Rather than making it harder, a better solution would actually be creating more events that are not skip-able.

Not really, check this video from October. No skipping, killing everything, less than 7 minutes. Party composition? 2 wars/2 guards/1 thief, no mesmer. That path is just short.

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Posted by: Dee Jay.2460

Dee Jay.2460

People will always strive for maximum efficiency.

In fact that is often the only reward you get.

People farmed Plinx over and over because he was the most efficient. People farm CoF because it’s the most efficient.

People ask for Guardians and Warriors to supplement their group because it is the most efficient.

You can’t really blame people for wanting to be efficient And I don’t think ANet can either.

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Posted by: Harrason.1429

Harrason.1429

To be honest, quite a lot of CoF P1 isn’t about killing, but actually skipping. Other then the first section in which you have to clear out the guards and the turrets, you are only required to actually kill the Acolytes during the rescue section, apart from the bosses. This is why CoF P1(and P2 to a reasonable extent as well as other dungeons with short times) can be ran so quickly. Rather than making it harder, a better solution would actually be creating more events that are not skip-able.

Not really, check this video from October. No skipping, killing everything, less than 7 minutes. Party composition? 2 wars/2 guards/1 thief, no mesmer. That path is just short.

If my eyes didn’t fail me, the party setup was as you mentioned. However, they did not kill everything. From 2:03, it was clear that they skipped the bonus bridge event, as well as the second set of mobs + turrets combo. While they did kill everything in the rescue event, it was not necessary, as the Acolytes will spawn again regardless of the mobs getting killed or otherwise, its just a respawn timer they had to wait for. Seeing as they have 2 guardians, it makes it pretty easy to gather all the mobs up and kill them, but a 4 GC warrior 1 mesmer combo wouldn’t be able to do so as far as i know.

As they activated the 4 braziers required to open the door, they will have to wait until the gate controller is smashed, as seen on the top right. While waiting, they have the option to kill the mobs, yes. But it is not required. You can just run around in circles while waiting. Finally, at the gate controller room, there’s actually 1 Godforged Hellstorm, and they skipped that as well, with the person being assigned to the controller only smashing the controller, getting his chest’s contents, and moving on afterward.

Apart from the rescue event where they actually kill the mobs which are optional apart from the acolytes, as well as the absence of a mesmer for a portal in the boulder portion, this is exactly the way CoF P1 farm runs are done.

People will always strive for maximum efficiency.

In fact that is often the only reward you get.

People farmed Plinx over and over because he was the most efficient. People farm CoF because it’s the most efficient.

People ask for Guardians and Warriors to supplement their group because it is the most efficient.

You can’t really blame people for wanting to be efficient And I don’t think ANet can either.

Precisely. It is their nature to want to do it quick, and you can’t fault them for that. However, this particular dungeon path does stick out from the others. As it is, without much farming methods left available, people turn to CoF because they have to. That however does not mean that its not something that should be left alone. I think that its better for every dungeon to actually provide something that makes people say “Hey, you know, this dungeon is actually worth it.” rather than “Apart from AC all paths, we only have CoF P1 to farm, so I guess that’s how it is.”

I only hope that if they make any changes, they would do it carefully, because the economy will change, for better or for worse.

Harrason Xez – Warrior/Yunomiko – Mesmer
Triskaidekaphobia – [XIII] – Maguuma

(edited by Harrason.1429)

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

-snip-

I’m gonna do self-facepalm here, bad link -.-. This one, 3 guardians/2 wars so a bit less dps than before, 9 minutes

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Posted by: Harrason.1429

Harrason.1429

-snip-

I’m gonna do self-facepalm here, bad link -.-. This one, 3 guardians/2 wars so a bit less dps than before, 9 minutes

I stand corrected then. However, while I now see that it could definitely use a slight difficulty boost, I believe that they should add more buildup events leading to the final boss, or to make it so that it actually takes more time to complete each event.

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Triskaidekaphobia – [XIII] – Maguuma

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

I stand corrected then. However, while I now see that it could definitely use a slight difficulty boost, I believe that they should add more buildup events leading to the final boss, or to make it so that it actually takes more time to complete each event.

That’s why I keep saying that this path isn’t just quick because people skip everything. This path doesn’t have much to skip to begin with. Compare times of let’s say arah1 or arah2 with and without skipping, now there’s a big difference there.

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Posted by: Ensign.2189

Ensign.2189

The Berserker Warriors actually make very little difference to your clear time. A strong group is going to spend less than a minute actually fighting in the run; the rest of the time is spent waiting for scripted events to complete and running between events. The big time saver is actually the Mesmer; Time Warp cuts the time spent fighting nearly in half, regardless of team composition.

The difference in clear time between a full Berserker group and a full PVT slug group using the same tactics is less than two minutes. There just isn’t enough time spent fighting for the damage to make a big difference. If this dungeon path takes you longer than 10 minutes, you’re either stopping to kill trash or suffering some really major failures somewhere (dying at the puzzle, carrying deadweight that can’t stay alive at the brazier room, etc).

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Posted by: Lightrayne.7829

Lightrayne.7829

The Berserker Warriors actually make very little difference to your clear time. A strong group is going to spend less than a minute actually fighting in the run; the rest of the time is spent waiting for scripted events to complete and running between events. The big time saver is actually the Mesmer; Time Warp cuts the time spent fighting nearly in half, regardless of team composition.

The difference in clear time between a full Berserker group and a full PVT slug group using the same tactics is less than two minutes. There just isn’t enough time spent fighting for the damage to make a big difference. If this dungeon path takes you longer than 10 minutes, you’re either stopping to kill trash or suffering some really major failures somewhere (dying at the puzzle, carrying deadweight that can’t stay alive at the brazier room, etc).

While I believe what you say is true, I think they are strict to the minute because they want to avoid being locked out of the dungeon by the gate event. People could probably mess with them if everyone on their individual servers stopped keeping the gate open. :P

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Posted by: Hasteo.6437

Hasteo.6437

I really don’t understand why people care about people gold farming path 1?

Hasteo [EVOH] – Maguuma

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Posted by: Phoenix.7845

Phoenix.7845

I really don’t understand why people care about people gold farming path 1?

That is a very good question. I think they may be tushy tormented.

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

I really don’t understand why people care about people gold farming path 1?

Inflation!

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Posted by: Sicarine.3985

Sicarine.3985

This thread has sort of derailed on a tangent of semantics. What the OP is trying to point out is there may be an issue with elitism in CoF and the designers need to be made aware of this. Now argue this next point however you like, but I maintain that the demand for certain classes over others IS elitism. Look it up in a dictionary if you want.

Groups looking only for specific classes IS elitism. In a perfect world where all of these people interact with themselves and all other “casual players” interact with themselves, this does not change the fact that it STILL IS elitism.

By itself, this would not be a problem. But I (and if I understand correctly, the OP) see a trend that this elitism is escalating. People should not feel sidelined into a certain class. And it is an issue when I personally look for a PuG, while my guild is off doing other things, (just to get a dungeon run in for some extra gold), and all I see is “Warrior and Mesmers only NO NOOBS”.

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Posted by: Churchill.8714

Churchill.8714

I have never done a 4war/1mes CoF1 farm and I do p1/2 twice each day on a warrior and a guardian.

Can’t be all the groups out there, unless I find the only two every day and wait no more than 5m to get in one.

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Posted by: jagabs.5086

jagabs.5086

CoF path 1 dungeon design is to be blame on this elitism issue. The CoF path 1 design we have right now is so efficient to do SPEED farm run with a party consisting only of warriors and mesmers. In fact, there is no need to speed farm run the dungeon with a support-oriented class and basically only needs a class that gives more DPS boons.

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Posted by: Harrason.1429

Harrason.1429

This thread has sort of derailed on a tangent of semantics. What the OP is trying to point out is there may be an issue with elitism in CoF and the designers need to be made aware of this. Now argue this next point however you like, but I maintain that the demand for certain classes over others IS elitism. Look it up in a dictionary if you want.

Groups looking only for specific classes IS elitism. In a perfect world where all of these people interact with themselves and all other “casual players” interact with themselves, this does not change the fact that it STILL IS elitism.

By itself, this would not be a problem. But I (and if I understand correctly, the OP) see a trend that this elitism is escalating. People should not feel sidelined into a certain class. And it is an issue when I personally look for a PuG, while my guild is off doing other things, (just to get a dungeon run in for some extra gold), and all I see is “Warrior and Mesmers only NO NOOBS”.

That would be correct. If I remember correctly, the designers do not intend for GW2 to be a huge gear-fest where everyone must get everything with “ilevel XXX” before you are accepted in a group for any dungeon. Right now, this equipment linking remains with only CoF, and that isn’t so bad. There also isn’t an inspect gear option(which may, or may not be part of it).

About a month ago, when I popped by a few CoF farm groups, while I did see groups taking mostly warriors, a lot of them are good with 1 or 2 guardians/thieves, and none of them asked for any links, nor did I see any of them asking for full berserker gear. I took a 3 weeks break from CoF afterward to focus on other portions of the game, and when I came back, I was… slightly taken aback from what I saw, not at the gold farmers, but at the bar of elitism going even higher than what it was.

Any form of elitism is fine if its restricted to a minority, because that is how it is. But when I see it being a norm with everyone asking for 4 of a certain class for a particular dungeon for a common material goal such as money making, then it does worry me, because there is a clear class imbalance here in that one particular class is favored over the others, and that class directly impacts the economy in a certain way(exactly how, I don’t know, as I am not an economics expert).

The other issue is that, while there are definitely other methods to make better money out there which people may or may not be aware of, CoF P1 is very common.

Now, a future problem may be this. I am no analyst, and I definitely could be wrong but there is a probability that as time passes, more people would want to get their gold for their legendaries and what not, and there may be more people who stay off other dungeons and concentrate on only CoF. Thankfully, they are probably still a minority at the moment. But if it eventually gets to 30% of the entire GW2 population farming CoF P1 just for the cash, then I would think that is actually a pretty bad sign.

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Triskaidekaphobia – [XIII] – Maguuma

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

People are becoming rude because of CoF Path 1 farming. My engineer always gets kicked after people see that I’m an engineer. The other day, I got a record breaking 6 consecutive kicks for not being a Warrior/Mesmer. 3 out of 6 times, I got something like “Engineers are kitten/Crap/useless” lines from them.

It’s quite true though that having a party full or warriors and mesmers are more effective than a bunch of random classes pugged together.

Aika Online did a good job of making balancing in dungeons. Like in most MMOs, warriors are usually OP in PVE. What the devs did in Aika Online was to make a bonus buff to a party if there are no reoccurring classes in the Party. In example, having a party of 1 Warrior, 1 Guardian, 1 Engineer, 1 Necro, and 1 Mesmer will give a bonus 15% Gold, MF, Exp, and Karma for the whole dungeon run. Of course, CoF p1 still needs to be reworked since I think people will still choose to have speed runs with the “elite” classes instead of doing this.

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Posted by: Fatfox.4915

Fatfox.4915

People are becoming rude because of CoF Path 1 farming. My engineer always gets kicked after people see that I’m an engineer. The other day, I got a record breaking 6 consecutive kicks for not being a Warrior/Mesmer. 3 out of 6 times, I got something like “Engineers are kitten/Crap/useless” lines from them.

It’s quite true though that having a party full or warriors and mesmers are more effective than a bunch of random classes pugged together.

I Started running Cof today, as I spoke to some people in map chat and they reckoned it was the easiest dungeon path. They weren’t lying. I was an engi, and at one point I had an engi friend in the party. The only other dungeon I’ve tried is Cm and jeez that’s a beast.Every single group I’ve been in has asked ‘Are you new/you don’t know what you’re doing do you?’ No kicks yet. Someone said I did well for a first timer. etcetc

The elitism suggests that the classes are unbalanced. And they are. Mesmers can portal over the rolling boulders of death, warriors and guardians kill things super fast. It makes me want to stand on that ledge outside and shout "Noobs, rally to this noob, Neglected classes rally to this engi!
And what will happen in the long run? Endless amounts of the top classes running around and nothing else. I would like to see the profession graph updated.
What they need if warriors will remain on top, is the dungeon of the downtrodden!
Thumper turrets everywhere that only engis can disable to make life slightly easier, mobs to drag in that will fight each other so the ranger pet isn’t killing everyone etcetc. Dead things necros can control to aid the party. Not enough to completely change the tide of the battle, but something to help.

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Posted by: Jabberwock.9014

Jabberwock.9014

I felt the same way when my only class was an ele… always getting kicked from CoF parties before the run even started. But then I bit the bullet and crafted up a war… believe me when I say, elitism is by far the best way to get fast, and more importantly, a high quantity of consecutive runs. When you make the restriction on class/experience level, you have a MUCH higher probability of grouping with similar people who can run very fast and are interested in farming for a long time. Is it possible to find a non warrior/mes group that can get sub 7 minute runs? Yes. But the probability of finding a non-nooby group without this composition is very low. This is because many of the most dedicated CoF farmers bit the bullet like me and leveled a warrior or mes alt.

However, I would put my money on warrior/mes being the best statistical group for the path. That is what started the migration in the first place.

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Posted by: Maylojager.1307

Maylojager.1307

Is it just me or this thread resembles the anti-mf thread?
It’s just that the sides are flipped. Same arguments can be provided though: “play with a guild”, “you are just jealous people are getting more than you are”, “let players play the way they want to play” (ppl want to play with 4war 1 mes composition) – so let us play that composition, if a person states that he wants a certain class for his group and you are trying to slip in as another class – you are just asking for a kick.
IMO all those “QQ elitism”, “Why mf is bad” and “Inspection = is a must” threads should be merged into one, because they are all about the same thing, with people providing same arguments.
Stop crying and play the game the way you want to play (be it slackering with mf gear or speedrunning) and let others do the same. Get a guild of like- minded players and get over it.

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

I do think there is something wrong with how people are requesting for 4x warriors and 1x mesmer, .

they are quite right…
Test dps and you’ll see
They should just be 5 warriors but ppl are lazy….

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

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Posted by: Gab Superstar.4059

Gab Superstar.4059

The way I see it, there are two major problems with dungeons right now. Waypoint zerging and the dominance of warriors. One is being fixed, while the other never will. This is because Arena Net will never balance the professions around dungeons. Yes, its blatantly obvious that warriors surpass everything else in terms of almost everything needed for dungeons, but your best solution is to roll with it (and a warrior). While Hrouda is doing a good job fixing the issues that are exclusive to dungeons, I find it very hard to believe he has the mandate to influence profession balance.

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Posted by: Sithaco.4673

Sithaco.4673

By Robert Hrouda: It’s one of those human things to do something with the path of least resistance and danger, especially when there is a reward at the end.

I think the same applies with the whole 4 warrior 1 mesmer group, people are just naturally going to pick the quickest path, with the quickest group.

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Posted by: rozcinana.7249

rozcinana.7249

There are still plenty of people that do CoF path 1 casually and not for speed runs, so I don’t get the big deal here if that’s what some people want to do. I speed farm it on a regular basis (as a mesmer) but also do at least one casual run per day to help guildies and we never have a problem finding some extra puggers for a run. Just be sure to make your intentions clear when you advertise or get someone new in the party so there aren’t mixed expectations.

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Posted by: Stigma.7869

Stigma.7869

If you truly want to balance classes then I would reduce the cool down on all range dps defensive skills. Every class has some sort of dmg mitigation, blocking, reflect skill. How many engineers have I seen using Smoke Screen and Wall of Reflect? 1 in the past 6 months and it was awesome.

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Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

For the record, the way the game’s headed, ArenaNet’s only going to encourage more elitism. It was more prevalent in FoTM because nobody likes bads 30+ and with the incoming dungeon patch to make it so a dead person can’t waypoint every time he dies and the party’s still in combat, there will be more “No Bads Allowed” because, really, who wants to take along a person who keeps dying and refuses to get better? It just hinders the team.

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Posted by: No Pulse.2967

No Pulse.2967

I really don’t understand why people care about people gold farming path 1?

Me neither, dude…

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Posted by: Haleydawn.3764

Haleydawn.3764

I really don’t understand why people care about people gold farming path 1?

Me neither, dude…

This thread is 3yrs old and not applicable anymore, since liquid gold got a solid nerf from dungeons, then slightly buffed to bring back into line.

Kitten.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

That’s a serious thread necro.

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Posted by: Lendruil.9061

Lendruil.9061

I also truly dislike all those cof farmers, good luck on joining as any other class than warrior or mesmer. And then they rather wait 10min for a mesmer than letting me join on my power necro. Warrior is just broken these days, they only have to use 100blades and then the slavedriver is dead.

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Posted by: Oxidia.8103

Oxidia.8103

Let me simplify: cof is here for 4.5 years. Lot of players are here for 4.5 years. Lots of people have done it a thousand times if not more. P1 is one of the fastest most easy path in a dungeon ingame.

There are people who have done it so many times that can run it literaly with eyes closed. They decided to farm it because its fast, so they need the same type of people, who have done it thousands of times, who run zerk so they can melt everything away in a matter of seconds so they can earn as much gold/items in least amount of time.

They create lfg that states speedrun/farm, if you are not a speedrunner/farmer, why join that group, then later complain if you get kicked necause you didn’t meet the group requirements?

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Posted by: Leon de Damasco.8105

Leon de Damasco.8105

Why people take seriously this kind of “necro trolling” post is beyond me.
I don’t even going to number all the changes betwen the year and the situation when this post was elaborated, to nowadays.
Any way, good luck, have fun and enjoy it.

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Posted by: thrag.9740

thrag.9740

I hate that we consider expecting your teammates run effective builds, to be elitist. Elitism is when you exclude meaninglessly. Excluding meaningfully is just efficiency. If your angry that no one wants your ele, you have 4 other character slots, just reroll a warrior or a mesmer.

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Posted by: Nicky.1092

Nicky.1092

Thread more alive than actual dungeons.

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Posted by: Moderator

Moderator

This topic is 3 years old and, as noted, much of the reason for the original discussion has been changed as a result of content patches.

In general, if the most recent thread is over 6 months old, please start a new one, as patches and updates may have significantly changed the way things work.

As such, I am closing this thread.