Guild Wars 2

4/10 for the effort, not bad

It’s a matter of how they want to deliver the same content. I don’t see a problem with abandoning the old dungeon format with multiple paths in an instance you have to zone into from somewhere in the open world, especially because they have started to make the open world itself interesting enough to play.

Now that I think about it, I’d like to see old open world areas revamped to be more interesting and worthwhile like silverwastes is.

Dungeons ultimately failed at the goal of bringing people out of the cities and into the open world because people ignore the area and just do the dungeon itself. Dungeons that require a meta event to open are less popular and people just consider it a pain to do.

So yeah the dungeon format doesn’t work anyway. Good choice Anet.

idk, free exploration inside dungeons would be enough for me, but that probably wouldn’t work out as well in some dungeons, except they remove all barriers for free exploration and just let all bosses spawn/give a new NPC who follows us around.
I’d dig a full exploration of Arah in one go with a nice reward (who am I kidding) at the end, just for kittens and giggles. Also, would be interesting to see how people adjust routes in order to get through the whole thing the fastest.
But I see how that’s not a really feasible idea, sooo…

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

idk, free exploration inside dungeons would be enough for me, but that probably wouldn’t work out as well in some dungeons, except they remove all barriers for free exploration and just let all bosses spawn/give a new NPC who follows us around.
I’d dig a full exploration of Arah in one go with a nice reward (who am I kidding) at the end, just for kittens and giggles. Also, would be interesting to see how people adjust routes in order to get through the whole thing the fastest.
But I see how that’s not a really feasible idea, sooo…

This sounds like a really fun idea. Open all doors and paths and make all boss encounters mandatory. Get all 3 or 4 paths rewards in one go. Splits for dungeons would be awesome to do. This would be a great throwback to dungeons in gw1, and would definitely rejuvenate the scene.

Fractals seem to be a better platform for adding new 5 man dungeon content.
It’s more of the combat less of the story/cut scene stuff.
And they make much more sense from a lore point of view.
They are repeatable because they are pockets of space and time you can enter.
No conflicts with the rest of the game world*.

Jerus.4350:

EcoRI.9273:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoh8b6

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing.”

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

I was far more interested in the other comment. I take it they have play tested the raid already. If necro is in a good place (likely they didn’t really look at damage that much) then I can only assume that a focus on avoiding damage and the current style of PVE is not something we’re going to see in raids. Not a big surprise seeing their feverish love for their PVP and their belief that it’s somehow a superior gameplay style.

Chances are these raids won’t be very much fun to me it keeps sounding like.

It will be very fun for me as I don’t play your kittening zerker kitten! I think I’ll fit in very well in raids using tankier more intelligent strategies other than hunch in a corner and spam a few skills…. After I get a better computer to actually see stuff thrown at me to dodge it rather go down to lag.

That is one amazing piece of work, I’m sooo copypasting it and saving it for future use… What a gem!

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Jerus.4350:

EcoRI.9273:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3jdjtv/designing_challenging_content/cuoh8b6

“When bosses don’t die in 5 seconds, survivability and sustainability actually becomes a thing.”

Oh look dungeon requires no skills says a dev.(At least thats how I interpret that statement.)

I was far more interested in the other comment. I take it they have play tested the raid already. If necro is in a good place (likely they didn’t really look at damage that much) then I can only assume that a focus on avoiding damage and the current style of PVE is not something we’re going to see in raids. Not a big surprise seeing their feverish love for their PVP and their belief that it’s somehow a superior gameplay style.

Chances are these raids won’t be very much fun to me it keeps sounding like.

It will be very fun for me as I don’t play your kittening zerker kitten! I think I’ll fit in very well in raids using tankier more intelligent strategies other than hunch in a corner and spam a few skills…. After I get a better computer to actually see stuff thrown at me to dodge it rather go down to lag.

You’re barking up the wrong tree. I’m all for tankiness and healing being promoted, the difference is that promoted and required are very different things. A playstyle based on constnatly healing yourself from unavoidable damage isn’t the GW2 PVE style. I want it to be so hard that we want clerics geared players, we want tanky people who can pull some agro with toughness or deal with environmental mechanics that have attrition effects. But there’s a very big difference between what I’m talking about expecting and what I’m saying here. But, considering you’re spouting off about “hunch[ing] in a corner” I take it you don’t really understand how the game works and are simply hating on a playstyle you can’t handle.

i still see the old dungeons as source of gold. with good group you can finish 8 dungeons in just over 2 hours. 15g there including trash sale etc, more or less.

i don’t go to SW, too much relying on rng, plus i fall asleep as soon i hit 2 rounds of the chest train there.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I think I’ll fit in very well in raids using tankier more intelligent strategies other than hunch in a corner and spam a few skills….

The tankier you are, the less intelligence your strategy requires. Which means you’ll probably want to stick with nomad’s gear.

Tongku.5326:

I would love to see changes which would move dungeons away from the zerker meta, especially now that a-net admitted its an overall design flaw and not how the game was originally intended to play.

Where’d they admit this? Reddit? Cause I don’t read reddit.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Tongku.5326:

I would love to see changes which would move dungeons away from the zerker meta, especially now that a-net admitted its an overall design flaw and not how the game was originally intended to play.

Where’d they admit this? Reddit? Cause I don’t read reddit.

IIRC he basically said that in his Raid reveal, and it’s one of the reasons I’m very worried, said PVE design doesn’t force players to use their full repertoire of abilities and that PVP is the only place that the true idea of the combat system appears… yeah… I took that as they want us to tank up and bring tons of healing, and to do that you need to make a bunch of small hits or unavoidable stuff… yeah… not liking it. But, hey fractal stuff will be nice I guess

“all additions we make to make the five player dungeon content more fun will expand on Fractals”

So making five player dungeon content less fun (for actual dungeons) is still on the table!

Any further “dungeon” content will be in the form of fractals.

Jerus.4350:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Tongku.5326:

I would love to see changes which would move dungeons away from the zerker meta, especially now that a-net admitted its an overall design flaw and not how the game was originally intended to play.

Where’d they admit this? Reddit? Cause I don’t read reddit.

IIRC he basically said that in his Raid reveal, and it’s one of the reasons I’m very worried, said PVE design doesn’t force players to use their full repertoire of abilities and that PVP is the only place that the true idea of the combat system appears… yeah… I took that as they want us to tank up and bring tons of healing, and to do that you need to make a bunch of small hits or unavoidable stuff… yeah… not liking it. But, hey fractal stuff will be nice I guess

I heard that, but don’t take that as the combat system is broken because content doesn’t force you into a certain gear stat…

fun:
stealth & skip trash
stack behind rock
aoe

rogerwilko.6895:

fun:
stealth & skip trash
stack behind rock
aoe

Why do you people keep saying stack behind rock? It’s so dumb and outdated.

The PvE in this game is so trivial you don’t need to LoS, the guardian/mesmer pulls the mobs together and the warrior/ele blows the mobs up before they know what hit them.

Jerus.4350:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Tongku.5326:

I would love to see changes which would move dungeons away from the zerker meta, especially now that a-net admitted its an overall design flaw and not how the game was originally intended to play.

Where’d they admit this? Reddit? Cause I don’t read reddit.

IIRC he basically said that in his Raid reveal, and it’s one of the reasons I’m very worried, said PVE design doesn’t force players to use their full repertoire of abilities and that PVP is the only place that the true idea of the combat system appears… yeah… I took that as they want us to tank up and bring tons of healing, and to do that you need to make a bunch of small hits or unavoidable stuff… yeah… not liking it. But, hey fractal stuff will be nice I guess

So, I did some digging on Reddit (for the first time ever) and came across something very interesting:

“I think some of my point was either misunderstood or lost here, in particular reading Nikes comments on the youtube section so I’ll try and clarify more simply:

We like the way combat works right now, we really don’t plan to change it much other than add more options with elite specs. It works the way we intended: you can play control, support, and DPS actively. To folks who prefer to define by the holy trinity, Gw2 doesn’t force you to pick one of the three from heal, tank, or DPS and only do that – it blends a mix depending on your build and allows you to actively swap roles or soft play between roles. Our goal was to remove the forced singular role per you’re locked into, people often mistake this as saying gw2 has no trinity elements, that isn’t true – we just don’t believe in a forced role per for Gw2 for the reasons I covered in the live stream.

That said the point I really wanted to make in the live stream was the issue with the combat system in PvE isn’t the combat system. It’s that the mobs and encounters we have provided so far very rarely allow/encourage you to make use of the combat system as intended. There are some exceptions, but one of our goals with HoT is to help allow more room for players to experience the full range of the combat system in PvE. From the common world mobs up to the challenging group content we will talk about later, we are asking our design team to design encounters in PvE more focused on using the system we have built.

Hope that helps a bit!" – CJ

https://www.reddit.com/user/ArenaColin

Can’t say I read that as Colin saying the combat system is broken. I do read that, though, as them trying to design content/encounters to nudge the player towards a certain build/playstyle, but it’ll still be doable in your current build/playstyle.

If no roles are mandatory, your content isn’t actually challenging. Understand this, as it applies to all MMO’s :

DPS will be prioritized after the minimum amount of damage mitigation and recovery options required to complete an encounter successfully are met.

High end raiding guilds in trinity MMO’s do this, they bring less healers and stack more DPS, or ask their healers and tanks to put on DPS accessories since unlike healing or tanking, DPS is never redundant/extraneous. More DPS means you push phases quicker and the less windows for error you can fail in.

If any composition and mishmash of skills/weapons can go into a raid and beat the content, you won’t have a PvE scene taken seriously by a raiding community who has raided in other MMO’s.

Raids should require optimization and coordination in execution of mechanics with efficiency. Critical points of failure that need to be strategized for and built around in traits/stats/weapon/utility choices should exist.

Expect it not to be taken seriously then.

How unfortunate that they consider dungeon faded content, although it’s no real surprise that they’ll continue to expand fractals.
Fractals is a loophole that allows Arenanet to pull from any somewhat significant point in history and make it content.
They may as well reconstruct the FOTM gate to be a DeLorean.

I imagine as time passes, the dungeons will get worse and worse as Anet does updates to the game without considering their effects on the dungeons.

For example, those volatile blossoms in TA stack poison like crazy — Anet obviously didn’t even bother to check what effects the condi changes would have on current content.

Of course, in this particular case, it’s not a gamebreaking problem, but I can imagine these things slowly adding up and killing the dungeon experience altogether.

Hi,

I am a dungeon master and I take that very seriously:)
I love dungeons, I was always a big fan of them,, in all MMos.
The way how Anet made them was amazing, I loved how skilled you need to be, also a thinking person to complete it. You also need to have a relatively good team and work together.
I don`t want to bash Wow, but that was rather boring, have tank aggro the mobs and just dps everything to the black death.

Here on the other hand dungeons are creative, and fun. I completed all of them countless times, but still I don`t get bored.

Fractals are different, they need more time, they are more difficult and require more experience. (Mai for example)

So for me, dungeons were always a kind of pro- content, while fractals were the top (elite)-pro content.
I don`t want to get them changed (fractals to dungeons) and I don`t want them neglected as I was always rather a pve player than pvp.
If you look at the endgame pve content, this is it. Anet now saying won`t be more new dungeons, instead we will get a director`s cut shortened fractals with no real background, just like trailers of real dungeons? Well… probably this should not be the way to go for endgame.

I wouldn’t say that Dungeons are dead. Maybe not popular, or as popular as they were. Though I would attribute them to being done by so many people, this being why. Though if you look at other games, like WoW, the Dungeons are still maintaining more popularity in this game then they did in that game (which most people think they did very well). I mean in WoW when the new Dungeon came out the old Dungeons were pretty much forgotten for the most part. Though they could be doing more to make them better and add new life to them, to the new players they still provide a lot of fun and a new experience, and you can see from the LFG in game that Dungeons are still commonly done.

I would say that Fractals are the obvious end tear focus for difficulty when you get to the higher tiers of play, and the 10 man raids will add another level of difficulty and something new to the game (though imagine trying to coordinate a 10 man run…. sounds horrible). I think the Guild Hall system is going to be another aspect that is a lot of fun that is coming up. I would say that Anet has a difficult time staying focused with releasing new content and keeping to projects, though with what they are bringing out with the xpac, I would say that it’s a fair amount of material.

Raids
More fractals (think I read this)
New area
New stuff for each class
New class
New area in WvW (I think I read this)

And probably a lot more stuff I’m forgetting. They still get stuff done, though it would be nicer if they could get it done quicker.

Vanilla and BC WoW dungeons weren’t mindless. They were pretty hard and some runs took ages. One player needed to sheep, the sapped the 3rd tanked and you had primary, secondary and tertiary targets. All went down to super easiness with Litch King which was the most successful expansion btw.

Phrozenspite.6275:

I wouldn’t say that Dungeons are dead.

You wouldn’t say it, and neither did Colin… but he said it without saying it too.

ofc they are

because anet would have to design a FULL uniqueWeaponset and ARMORSET for it and not just a cheap outfit that is the same for every race and cant be mixed and matched….

and ofc we know anet doesnt like to do that if they can avoid it

so we get that legendary armor with raids and thats it i guess for instance reward armor skins