Guild Wars 2

There has been a lot made of DPS Meters in this thread and the threats it brings to the community. I for one am an advocate for a Global DPS meter that allows at least raid leaders to see how each party member is doing. This would also allow that raid leader to determine optimal squad compositions for the classes their team can play.

However, there’s a lot of ill feeling that this could lead to elitism, which I can understand. Frankly, I don’t have a problem with elitism, nor do I believe it is completely absent in this game.

The major benefits of a DPS meter though are benefits to the individual. The validation of the viability for classes testing different gear sets, rotations or trait set ups and even different weapons would provide huge weight to arguments for new builds. I genuinely believe it would help to improve build diversity (and overall balance if ANet were seeking it).

I can see no real argument against a personal DPS meter that is not shared server wide. Is there one?

jonnis.2946:

I can see no real argument against a personal DPS meter that is not shared server wide. Is there one?

I don’t think so. Everytime someone was against the idea of dps meter he was talking about public dps meter, never about personal dps meter.

I guess it’s because most people automatically assume that if you talk about dps meter, you talk about a dps meter that show the dps of everyone at the end of an instance.

this here is interesting.
group dmg meter based on janx.

did anyone tryed it out?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/42zxuo/tool_group_dpsmeter_based_on_jaxnx/

(so there is one to compare dps groupwide :P
…just in development atm as it seems.)

skarpak.8594:

this here is interesting.
group dmg meter based on janx.

did anyone tryed it out?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/42zxuo/tool_group_dpsmeter_based_on_jaxnx/

(so there is one to compare dps groupwide :P
…just in development atm as it seems.)

I have this set up and working. Its not particularly efficient. Every second I get a readout of what dps each player in my raid has averaged since the fight started. It helps me to see who we need to help and who can help those people, perhaps also places where classes aren’t particularly viable etc. A true damage meter would be much more useful though, especially one which we could split by phases of the fight. Needs someone to create a proper GUI off the data!

If ArenaNet are happy with this workaround for a DPS meter, then they should just release an API that allows us to build one for personal use, which has the option to share that meter to the squad leader or all other members. Each person also needs the option of whether or not to display that information. Problem solved and a great deal of people a lot happier.

Certainly though, a true damage meter for personal use is essential to most raiding environments, especially some of the fights enrage timers are designed to test group DPS.

Tbh- I would like to see a group wide DPS Meter available in game with some additions:
Heal Output,
Booms Outputs – eg Prot/Regen etc
Condi Outputs

So we can see how the group is performing so we can optimise play.

True raid leaders understand it’s not just about DPS but how the group is performing.
Not everyone will be pure DPS – but it would allow us to address where weak links are more easily and rectify that area through training (eg change of rotation) for example.

It would also allow a better truer picture of how builds are performing in reality beyond theory crafting in a group setting.

TPMN.1483:

Tbh- I would like to see a group wide DPS Meter available in game with some additions:
Heal Output,
Booms Outputs – eg Prot/Regen etc
Condi Outputs

So we can see how the group is performing so we can optimise play.

I would add to that, Damage Received. This is a big part of figuring out (if it wasn’t already obvious) who has poor positioning or isn’t learning the mechanics well enough. If you have three eles in your group and they all do about 20k dps but one receives twice the damage as the others on every boss pull, its pretty obvious who the worse of the three is.

Janx has this personal dps meter. Is this one legit? I would rly love a dps meter to improve my playstyle.
But then agin i bought the core game for myself and a friend and i bought the expac for myself and my girl. So i don’t want to be banned for willing to be a better player after spending that much money on this game ????

They can’t ban you for Janx since it uses screenshots of combat log to get dps. And doesn’t access game files.

At this point I just want to hear Anet’s official stand on DPS meter so that people won’t have to guess or argue back and forth. People asking for personal dps meter that won’t be shared or only be seen by the raid leader with share/no share function within raid instances only sounds good enough for me.

If not at least release an API that only read into combat log and can be used by websites such as gw2 efficiency or something.

For raids- to be honest it would be good to see the combat logs of what is killing people.

Just ran a few runs for training and saw some people stiff for no known reason (they couldn’t tell)- just having access to that teams log is a high benefit in-game.

We’re having to guess who killed the team from things like timed bombs, insta deaths from flame throwers or not jumping from a world eater attack on time.

skarpak.8594:

this here is interesting.
group dmg meter based on janx.

did anyone tryed it out?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/42zxuo/tool_group_dpsmeter_based_on_jaxnx/

(so there is one to compare dps groupwide :P
…just in development atm as it seems.)

My guild starting using this, this past week. Gives our leader a much better idea of where we are lacking and where we aren’t. We’ve already made a number of changes based on the data, and will hopefully see some improvement next week.

The biggest issue is the display. With 5-6 phases and dps running multiple roles you only really get a good idea of dps during phase 1 of each fight. Need some way to split dps by phase, pause dps for people running cannons or clearing adds, and have dps for single targets.

Right now anyone with strong AOE will always display higher than single target classes since it is impossible to separate adds from boss dps.

It’s certainly a start, but we are essentially in the stone age compared to pretty much every other modern MMO.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

They can’t ban you for Janx since it uses screenshots of combat log to get dps. And doesn’t access game files.

They can because technically it’s botting.

Wethospu.6437:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

They can’t ban you for Janx since it uses screenshots of combat log to get dps. And doesn’t access game files.

They can because technically it’s botting.

It’s not boring but ok, on this premise you can be banned for using twitch. It is a program that does not interact with anything with the game files, client or server. All it does is take screenshots and run a number recognition on the area for the chatlog, while noting programs interact with the game.

If they wanted you to use a DPS meter they would provide an API, their own tool or an official statement. Until that happens the only point of justifying it is to feel good about it.

I have used the memory reading tool since it was released. I have used it multiple times to gather information. Whenever I have released information like that I have credited the tool making everyone well aware of me using it. I have got infracted for “revealing undisclosed game mechanics” and also got a developer respond to my topics a couple of times. So they must be well aware of me using it and I would be an extremely good target if they wanted to do something about it.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Wethospu.6437:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

They can’t ban you for Janx since it uses screenshots of combat log to get dps. And doesn’t access game files.

They can because technically it’s botting.

It’s not boring but ok, on this premise you can be banned for using twitch. It is a program that does not interact with anything with the game files, client or server. All it does is take screenshots and run a number recognition on the area for the chatlog, while noting programs interact with the game.

Let’s be honest to ourselves here … if people understand the EULA, Anet can decide to ban you for using a third party anything, including Twitch. It would be stupid in some cases, yes, but it can be done and nothing would stop them from doing so.

Even these seemingly innocent programs are not exempt. If for some reason, Anet decided using any particular program provided some advantage to playing the game, no one would be spared if they decided to do something about it. It’s a dangerous game when people talk themselves into doing things they make assumptions about.

Frankly, I’m hoping the proliferation of Janx tool forces their hand to make the DPS information legally available, fearing that their would be just too many players to take action against if they felt they had to.

So after playing a bit with JaxnX I’m quite sure that we won’t see any official dps meter for long in the game.

The first reason for this is that there is no proper test environment in-game (Bloomhunger 2 is maybe the most real case but just to run a test..).

My second conclusion is that buffs and debuffs in the game are so huge that running a test of any sort would need a “tunable” zone where you can add might, vuln on the target, make it move or do some action to test torment and confusion.

As a new user of the tool, I directly went to HotM with a guildmate. Both of us Rev in raid. We got 25 might quite easily but couldn’t go higher than 5 to 7 k DPS on the indestructible golem. The day after, just for fun, I tried a condi build (without might) and got the same DPS. I could then have said that condi rev does as much dps as Glint/Shiro herald. Moreover, VG has a DPS req of something like 7k (8 damage dealers over 6 minutes for 22M HP), so I could also have conclude that I didn’t reach the DPS check…. and well it’s not like Rev rotation is hard.

But then I went on VG and measured the DPS. As herald I was doing about 13k DPS on P1 (ended the fight at 9). Then I changed to Air sigil and it increased of about 1k5. Now I have yet to try my brand new ascended sword.

So for me the biggest problem for Anet to implement a DPS meter is to do it right and in a manner that can reflect what you actually do in real fights. I think the design of such a tool is kinda ressource consuming.
That said, if they simply add a window at the end of an encounter where you see at least the amount of damage of the entire team it would be really helpful to see if someone has a problem.

Ranael.6423:

That said, if they simply add a window at the end of an encounter where you see at least the amount of damage of the entire team it would be really helpful to see if someone has a problem.

That would be nice but that is when the finger pointing would start to guess who did the least amount of damage but I guess that is more of a player issue.

reapex.8546:

That would be nice but that is when the finger pointing would start to guess who did the least amount of damage but I guess that is more of a player issue.

The thing is there is a point when you reach enrage where you know that at least one guy is not doing enough damage. Before that you will see if somebody dies too much, don’t follow the mechanics, if health bar don’t refill fast enough, if you lack boons throughout the encounter…
But when you hit enrage, you know it is a lack of DPS, and everybody will tell you that they are doing their rotation correctly.

If you see someone playing the meta build who does far less damage than the others or less than what is expected at least then you know this person has not understood how his build work. Actually with the dominance of metabattle it is often the case.

People just open the window to select the trait and then go on fight, many don’t even take time to read which trait they have. Last week, a condi warrior told me “but warriors don’t have trait that proc bleed on crit”… actually someone playing war since release apparently…..I also had a discussion with a condi engi who said he didn’t understand why I said that he need to go melee to get the best out of his pistol 4….

Ranael.6423:

So after playing a bit with JaxnX I’m quite sure that we won’t see any official dps meter for long in the game.

The first reason for this is that there is no proper test environment in-game (Bloomhunger 2 is maybe the most real case but just to run a test..).

My second conclusion is that buffs and debuffs in the game are so huge that running a test of any sort would need a “tunable” zone where you can add might, vuln on the target, make it move or do some action to test torment and confusion.

As a new user of the tool, I directly went to HotM with a guildmate. Both of us Rev in raid. We got 25 might quite easily but couldn’t go higher than 5 to 7 k DPS on the indestructible golem. The day after, just for fun, I tried a condi build (without might) and got the same DPS. I could then have said that condi rev does as much dps as Glint/Shiro herald. Moreover, VG has a DPS req of something like 7k (8 damage dealers over 6 minutes for 22M HP), so I could also have conclude that I didn’t reach the DPS check…. and well it’s not like Rev rotation is hard.

But then I went on VG and measured the DPS. As herald I was doing about 13k DPS on P1 (ended the fight at 9). Then I changed to Air sigil and it increased of about 1k5. Now I have yet to try my brand new ascended sword.

So for me the biggest problem for Anet to implement a DPS meter is to do it right and in a manner that can reflect what you actually do in real fights. I think the design of such a tool is kinda ressource consuming.
That said, if they simply add a window at the end of an encounter where you see at least the amount of damage of the entire team it would be really helpful to see if someone has a problem.

A few points to hit on Janx is accurate but not as accurate as a dos meter that reads actual server information, instead of trying to recognize numbers in a screenshot of the game. In a raid your dps should be a lot higher than your dos in Hotm in Hotm you don’t have the same stats, food buffs utilities and you said you and another rev tested the dps, might isn’t the only contributing damage increasing boon, in a raid you should have perma quickness, as well as vulnerability on the target which all increase your damage more. It would be very simple for Anet to implement a personal dps meter, they have the resources and should know the coding of their own game to implement a small QoL feature such as this.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

A few points to hit on Janx is accurate but not as accurate as a dos meter that reads actual server information, instead of trying to recognize numbers in a screenshot of the game. In a raid your dps should be a lot higher than your dos in Hotm in Hotm you don’t have the same stats, food buffs utilities and you said you and another rev tested the dps, might isn’t the only contributing damage increasing boon, in a raid you should have perma quickness, as well as vulnerability on the target which all increase your damage more. It would be very simple for Anet to implement a personal dps meter, they have the resources and should know the coding of their own game to implement a small QoL feature such as this.

But my point is that a “simple dps meter” would be more misleading than anything. I know HotM is level 78 exotic and that you are lacking stats but being in a real situation can double or more your dps… but not every build will scale in the same manner so you can’t really compare them out of the real situation. If they’d add a DPS meter in the game, I really can’t see it as simple, unless it is just a comparison for all raid members of the total amount of damage they did during the last encounter… so more a performance tool than a theorycrafting one.

A dps tool will function the same no matter what, it shows your personal Dps while the encounter is active, it will go off of the actual damage you are performing while in combat, in real situations your dps will be more accurate than standing still doing nothing besides attacking, a golem in Hotm, real encounters require postitioning and situational awareness, there will be fluctuation in dps depending on how well you are able to upkeep your damage while positioning, some fights will show players doing less depending on the situation. If you aren’t attacking your dps will drop be this from repositioning downing and so on. Some classes don’t rely on personal dos like Chronomancer, they rely on providing group wide dps increase. It will still show their personal dps, people understand that. I think you want a meter that shows everyone’s different contribution which is something too complex that need not be utilized. A simple dps meter showcasing how much dps each player can keep up is all that is needed.