Guild Wars 2

Delay.6908:

Player Character.9467:

This

oh and this

For it to do the crazy damage it does it still needs some warrior support. So its not that good solo, still powerful though.

Hammer yes, the first one not so much. Ele w/FGS can take down multiple LA practice dummies solo. The real requirement is a wall.

while everyone discusses niche situations, my 2c:
every class with full zerker gear can reach pretty decent damage. in any case, a lot more than the same class/build in egoistical PVT gear.
as long as you use decent gear, you will usually do way more damage than the rest of your party in pugs.
as for classes:

• it’s easy to get extremely high damage output with warrior.
• guardians can dish out a lot less, but are way more durable if you go full zerker (and still more dmg than ego pvt players ofc).

where some warris often go down, an altruistic healing/pure voice guardian will just stand and do his damage, while being able to give great boons, remove condis for everyone and heal himself off of it.

Oranisagu.3706:

while everyone discusses niche situations, my 2c:
every class with full zerker gear can reach pretty decent damage. in any case, a lot more than the same class/build in egoistical PVT gear.
as long as you use decent gear, you will usually do way more damage than the rest of your party in pugs.
as for classes:

• it’s easy to get extremely high damage output with warrior.
• guardians can dish out a lot less, but are way more durable if you go full zerker (and still more dmg than ego pvt players ofc).

where some warris often go down, an altruistic healing/pure voice guardian will just stand and do his damage, while being able to give great boons, remove condis for everyone and heal himself off of it.

A warrior/thief in knights will easily outdamage a ranger or mesmer in berserkers.

Some classes just have really low base numbers.

The problem with the mesmer is that the boon strip on his auto is really penalizing their base damage, and I assume the presence of phantasms as well. I think they mean to balance the mesmer with the presence of phantasms, but a) it takes too much ramp up, and b) only zerker and warden cleave, and warden has the longest cd of them all. Also, even with the buffs phantasms die immediately.

The phantasms may have close to 20k hp or 30k hp, but fractal 48 mobs cleave for 9k damage a piece, and it’s multiple mobs.

They don’t seem to get it through their little heads that pet classes will never be viable so long as they refuse to implement aoe resistance/avoidance for ai, and allow the ai to cleave baseline.

And in the case of rangers and necromancer and guardian spirit weapons, they need to allow the pets to scale with the master’s gear. Ai that doesn’t gain the 110% crit damage bonus or food bonuses or oil/stone/potion bonuses will be deficient ai, and the classes balanced around that deficient ai will always lag behind.

oh look its this thread again.
:\

Can’t you guys just keep it in one place for a change?
I see all this crap about how everything’s a faceroll, BRB AFK autoattacking, and Anet’s bad at dungeons etc.. etc.. But where’s all threads talking about the mechanics that shake up the damage equations? Just not popular? Afraid to actually admit there’s some that DO?

ilr.9675:

oh look its this thread again.
:\

Can’t you guys just keep it in one place for a change?
I see all this crap about how everything’s a faceroll, BRB AFK autoattacking, and Anet’s bad at dungeons etc.. etc.. But where’s all threads talking about the mechanics that shake up the damage equations? Just not popular? Afraid to actually admit there’s some that DO?

Could you make a list of ones that actually DO? and not just ones that are objects and therefore ignore crits.

Zenith.7301:

A warrior/thief in knights will easily outdamage a ranger or mesmer in berserkers.

Some classes just have really low base numbers…..

sorry, you completely missed my point. your statement is obviously correct, but has no relation to mine, so I don’t really know why you quoted me.

any class in zerker will do more damage than any other class in PVT gear. even if you compare a low-base-dmg zerker mesmer to a PVT warrior.
thus, gear is much more important than class until you really start to minmax in a dedicated group. at which point the OP wouldn’t need to ask this question anymore.

so I recommend again: use the class you like to play most, gear for damage and you’ll do fine. for beginners the guardian is a really good class which happens to also be in high demand in all dungeons (not all paths maybe). warrior is also a good choice for beginners, though the lack of healing and damage mitigation makes him a bit more dependent on other players (or perfect play on your part) when doing harder content.

With the current “dungeon meta” of stacking on the boss against a wall, elementalists bring the most DPS. For most encounters at least.

Also, A lightning hammer ele could out DPS a warrior, but that requires a lot more group organisation.

Alilinke.7690:

Also, A lightning hammer ele could out DPS a warrior, but that requires a lot more group organisation.

It also requires a warrior…

Player Character.9467:

Could you make a list of ones that actually DO? and not just ones that are objects and therefore ignore crits.

• Mai — doesn’t start taking real damage until her own “Pet” strips the shield off her …IE: the longer a group can tank together, the more damage they deal
• Crystal Behemoths (P1 Arah) — The more of the “Green Light” Torment you can endure, the greater the Damage you deal to them.
• Lyssa Preist — is ALWAYS moving around, even teleporting but still vulnerable to crippling. Stacking in melee-only or being Glass just means dying to Exploding mobs or being an instant kill for the Gorrilla Champ. (1 Endurance spec’d player like me distracting it can save the lives of 30 other players)
• Wraith champions — Regens back to full with LifeDrain, the more players that are around it. Everyone coordinating knockdowns ALWAYS trumps DPS.
• COE Husk — Okay this is more of a bomb-wrangling minigame, but it’s still a fun skill-check in a sea of DPS-checks.
• Jotun Stargazer — Pure team-coordination check. Also depends on decent crystal “Runners” who can get through the zergs of risen spiders & meteorite field
• CM Seraph (Path3) Well obviously the Keg part… but also the Keg party after that…
• CM Hudda Hudda hallway, no explanation needed here either.
• CM path1 “Frost” Ice-blower boss (kiting & con-removal > DPS here)

There’s probably a lot more I’m missing here, and even MORE room for improvement if Anet were to bring back some of the Gw1 skills that also countered brainless DPS’ing.

Player Character.9467:

Alilinke.7690:

Also, A lightning hammer ele could out DPS a warrior, but that requires a lot more group organisation.

It also requires a warrior…

Your point?

Player Character.9467:

Alilinke.7690:

Also, A lightning hammer ele could out DPS a warrior, but that requires a lot more group organisation.

It also requires a warrior…

An understanding guardian.

Gonna split these into 2 sections

Actually dungeons

• Crystal Behemoths (P1 Arah) — The faster you can deal damage, the less you have to endure.
• COE Husk — This event is actually simplest to complete without everybody running the golems, as a result people with sufficient range can sit at the entrance and hit the boss when it isn’t reflecting (hitting this boss with your own weapons is also required to tag for loot credit)
• Jotun Stargazer — Pure team-coordination check. One that was made so simple you can solo it.
• CM Seraph (Path3) If by “Keg party after that” you’re referring to the exploit… do i need to go further?
• CM Hudda Hudda hallway if this is what you call a real mechanic… wow… stand still and press button when rocket is flying at you
• CM path1 “Frost” Ice-blower boss no, this is still a simple boss that you just dps into the ground

Not a part of this conversation and open world pve in this game is entirely about dps, “coordination” is just hit A not B.

• Mai — is not permanent content, does not exist in the game anymore
• Lyssa Preist — World events are zerg to win, this one can even be rez rushed
• Wraith champions — Evading an aoe life drain is a coordination issue not a CC one. Go out of range, wait, come in range, dps, repeat.

You didn’t disprove a single one of those. You simply dripped heavy Snark over them and dismissed them instead. You only requested examples… now you’re moving the goal post to “must be l337 only”… Then again that’s all these Threads ever turn into anyway so I guess I shouldn’t be the least bit surprised.

Fortunately that’s the complete OPPOSITE of the attitude found in-game in friendly pugs who amass for these things simply because they give them simple & undeniable visual win conditions on HOW they’re contributing (Vs. a bunch of lifeless numbers that not even the experts here seem to agree on either).

ilr.9675:

You didn’t disprove a single one of those. You simply dripped heavy Snark over them and dismissed them instead. Then again that’s all these Threads ever turn into anyway so I guess I shouldn’t be the least bit surprised.

Fortunately that’s the complete OPPOSITE of the attitude found in-game in friendly pugs who amass for these things simply because they give them simple & undeniable visual win conditions on HOW they’re contributing (Vs. a bunch of lifeless numbers that not even the experts here seem to agree on either).

And dps groups will continue to outperform you in time as well as in # of wipes. Go ahead and grab a turret engi, or a mace/shield & hammer warrior, or a 100% water attune heal “spam” ele (read: I do nothing during cooldowns).

DPS beats bosses and they’re all but immune to CC. The only time you want heavy CC support is against trash but then 95% of the time ANet throws too many enemies at you for you to make a considerable dent because of AoE caps.

deSade.9437:

Player Character.9467:

Alilinke.7690:

Also, A lightning hammer ele could out DPS a warrior, but that requires a lot more group organisation.

It also requires a warrior…

An understanding guardian.

^^^^^^^ With a passion for blue fire.

Player Character.9467:

DPS beats bosses and they’re all but immune to CC. The only time you want heavy CC support is against trash but then 95% of the time ANet throws too many enemies at you for you to make a considerable dent because of AoE caps.

That’s so cute, you actually don’t know how defiant works.

Also, Mai may be back depending on how the election goes. And that is OK, because your OP classes are still OP in that dungeon as well.

lunyboy.8672:

That’s so cute, you actually don’t know how defiant works.

Also, Mai may be back depending on how the election goes. And that is OK, because your OP classes are still OP in that dungeon as well.

I can already see her having 26 stacks of defiance on higher levels and undodgeable agony. Assuming anet won’t change the mechanics ofcourse.

lunyboy.8672:

Player Character.9467:

DPS beats bosses and they’re all but immune to CC. The only time you want heavy CC support is against trash but then 95% of the time ANet throws too many enemies at you for you to make a considerable dent because of AoE caps.

That’s so cute, you actually don’t know how defiant works.

Also, Mai may be back depending on how the election goes. And that is OK, because your OP classes are still OP in that dungeon as well.

I know exactly how defiant works, but pumping out 20+ CC skills to get a 3 second stun&interrupt isn’t exactly effective. You now have to wait at least 30 seconds to get all those skills back and they’re taking up the weapon choices and utility bars of 4 or 5 people. Defiant is what has trimmed the DPS-Support-CC trinity GW2 was intended to run down to DPS-Support. It’s already recognized as the laziest boss mechanic.

lunyboy.8672:

Player Character.9467:

DPS beats bosses and they’re all but immune to CC. The only time you want heavy CC support is against trash but then 95% of the time ANet throws too many enemies at you for you to make a considerable dent because of AoE caps.

That’s so cute, you actually don’t know how defiant works.

Also, Mai may be back depending on how the election goes. And that is OK, because your OP classes are still OP in that dungeon as well.

Wait what? Mai might be back???

DivineSlayer.5039:

lunyboy.8672:

Player Character.9467:

DPS beats bosses and they’re all but immune to CC. The only time you want heavy CC support is against trash but then 95% of the time ANet throws too many enemies at you for you to make a considerable dent because of AoE caps.

That’s so cute, you actually don’t know how defiant works.

Also, Mai may be back depending on how the election goes. And that is OK, because your OP classes are still OP in that dungeon as well.

Wait what? Mai might be back???

Yep, according to some of the press info, the upcoming election for the captain’s council will be between Kiel and some stinky charr, and if Kiel wins; Aetherblade becomes a fractal, and if the charr wins; molten alliance dungeon.

So vote early and vote often.

And to the 26 stacks of defiant, I doubt they will change up the mechanic that much, and if you coordinate you can remove the stacks and pull her into the 3rd cannon blast to remove her shield very effectively. On our first run, a thief and I did this fast enough to get her down easily in a non-warrior heavy group.

You see, Defiant is fixed to work based on how many people are attacking her when she is CCed, and in a party of 5, this baseline 5 stacks. Each can be pulled off with hard CC effects very quickly, and then when the 3 AoE field comes up, you can pull her with magnet, scorpion wire, etc. right into it.

And in high level fractals it’s like 5 per person attacking.

I’m curious as to whether they will make the fractal the exact same as the dungeon or if it will be different, because I ran Aetherblade with a ton of bad groups and it took forever or the group failed, so I hope they shorten it up a bit but keep the same difficult feel of it.