Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

Talyn.3295:

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

So its all the meta players fault?

Because people don’t read?

Because people join groups knowing they don’t fit in?

Sorry, I don’t buy this.

It would be like me going to my weekly board game group and setting down with a group of guys who are about to play Settlers of Catan and throwing monopoly down in the middle of the table, then expecting those guys to play my game. Because its my “right” to be included in their group.

You’re ‘reading between the lines’ skills need improvement, as well as your ability to follow the thread.

Sure, go for the personal attack.

I think you just can’t justify your stance. You preach for tolerance on the part of the meta player, when we are expected not not get the same in return? Get real.

GW2 is no different then any other Trinity MMO. If I make a lFG post asking for an Ele (which I don’t, I pretty much except everyone, but just saying) and an Necro joins and gets kicked how is this any different then in a Trinity Game where a LFG post ask for a Healer and a second Tank or another DPS class joins?

Jerus.4350:

Talyn.3295:

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

So its all the meta players fault?

Because people don’t read?

Because people join groups knowing they don’t fit in?

Sorry, I don’t buy this.

It would be like me going to my weekly board game group and setting down with a group of guys who are about to play Settlers of Catan and throwing monopoly down in the middle of the table, then expecting those guys to play my game. Because its my “right” to be included in their group.

<3 settlers! I never win, but the best entertainment watching friendships being ruined!… sorry I know off topic

I know. I always try it in the Settlers group, but it fills so fast.

Talyn.3295:

Sure, go for the personal attack.

It’s warranted … you’re not reading my posts, or you’re reading into them what you want to see to argue.

Obtena.7952:

Talyn.3295:

Sure, go for the personal attack.

It’s warranted … you’re not reading my posts, or reading into them what you want to see.

When is a personal attack warranted? I can’t recall every making one against you, al though you have given many opportunities.

Perhaps you just need to make yourself clearer? Or get off your high horse.

My posts are clear. Read them and you would see that. If you did and you didn’t understand them, then why you argue with me instead of asking me what I meant? You can put away the abused persona now.

Obtena.7952:

My posts are clear. Read them and you would see that. If you did and you didn’t understand them, then why you argue with me instead of asking me what I meant? You can put away the abused persona now.

Obtena.7952:

It’s sad how these unmanageable standards have blown in up in the faces of the Dungeon community, though it’s all self inflicted. That’s what happens with player-instigated regulations. Game isn’t designed for exclusion and it’s cost us all by lack of development on a valuable source of entertainment.

Obtena.7952:

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

It’s sad how these unmanageable standards have blown in up in the faces of the Dungeon community, though it’s all self inflicted. That’s what happens with player-instigated regulations. Game isn’t designed for exclusion and it’s cost us all by lack of development on a valuable source of entertainment.

I know you’re trolling, but the dungeon community has nothing to do with it. Most of us are pretty easy going about team comp, especially in random pugs. The people who created the unmanageable standard are the wannabe-elitist scrubs who aren’t in the actual “community.”

It’s actually anyone that promotes specific builds for whatever their cause of the day is. It’s infectious. It may not have been the intention, but this is the result.

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

Everyone is PHIW … the question is if someone is a “play how I tell you”.

Obtena.7952:

Killer Instinct.2058:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

Everyone is PHIW … the question is if someone is a “play how I tell you”.

What if you are a group irl friends and none of you wants to heal?

Genuinely curious because I’ve never played a trinity game before.

I’ve never had that problem in a trinity game so I can’t answer you. Usually, you can grab any other healers LFT.

Obtena.7952:

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem in a trinity game. If you play a class that focuses on heals, it’s because you desire to heal, etc… so when someone asks you to heal, you don’t cry about it, you like it.

So when someone asks you to use Wall of Reflect defend against projectiles you use Wall of Reflect because you chose a class that reflects projectiles. You don’t cry about it, you like it.

I don’t see a problem with that … I also don’t see the relevant comparison either. Someone asking for a specific, single tool to an encounter is not the same as someone telling what complete build other people should be using. Wall of Reflection is not a ‘metabuild’.

I also don’t get your point; you think a comparison of a single skill and a whole concept for a characters role proves something? Let me know when you figure out what that something is. In the meantime, give some serious thought to what I said and why we are in the situation we have now …

Obtena.7952:

NikeEU.7690:

Obtena.7952:

I also don’t get your point; you think a comparison of a single skill and a whole concept for a characters role proves something? Let me know when you figure out what that something is. In the meantime, give some serious thought to what I said and why we are in the situation we have now …

I could have cited any number of skills, utilities and traits that compose the “meta” guardian build. I picked one to keep it simple for you.

Well, unfortunately I’m smarter than you give me credit for and your stunt ruined your point, so it must not have been worth reading anyways.

Deny it all you like; GW2 is designed to allow people to play whatever builds they want and still succeed. I know that bothers the meta runners because it ruins their message of ‘the proper way’ to play; too bad. lf people start inventing reasons to bully people into specific builds, it’s not going to go well.

Thaddeus.4891:

Obtena.7952:

Hey, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that. People should respect the LFG messages. What’s being ‘discussed’ is the fact that ignorant people are using ‘meta’ to treat people badly. My point is that is an inevitable result of demanding people use specific builds to playing the game. Because it’s a player induced element, it’s eventually going to be abused by players because it can’t be controlled.

But what is your point? We shouldn’t ever mention the fact that there is a more optimal way of playing because if we do so try hards will use that knowledge to bully other people?

That kind of behavior will always exist whatever you do. Anet can mitigate that with a better LFG because people can’t read. But otherwise, I don’t see what you are trying to say here?

Are you saying that there shouldn’t any meta?
We should talk about meta the way we do?
Anet should change the meta?

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

I think I collected all of them here.

I think I saw one comment in there about how people should pay attention to what was ask in the LFG post.

But mostly It was alot of blaming the Meta community for imposing standards and infectious builds on people. Meta community is also to blame for the lack of instanced content? We also bully people for not using proper builds? And this is a problem because its Player Introduced…

Just like its player introduced in every game where players play together.

I also took away that Trinity games are better because it lets people play healers. I think by now most people should know there are no healers here and could have found another game.

Either I hit the nail on the head or you are just really bad at getting your point across.

Talyn.3295:

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

So its all the meta players fault?

Because people don’t read?

Because people join groups knowing they don’t fit in?

Sorry, I don’t buy this.

It would be like me going to my weekly board game group and setting down with a group of guys who are about to play Settlers of Catan and throwing monopoly down in the middle of the table, then expecting those guys to play my game. Because its my “right” to be included in their group.

I agree with the bolded part in Obtena’s quote. This attitude also applies to people who are not actually playing the meta, but instead, still learning the ropes and even disillusioned themselves that they are representing the “meta players”:

I had a chance to play with Skady’s trio group recently in fractals. The run was smooth and it was a totally different experience. So, I brought up the topic in one of my chill casual runs with another group of friends. Immediately, the friends of my friend mocked her non-meta approach and associated “a healing guard” as an outrageous dead weight. Then we had Mossman. The most opinionated person in his zerker ele spent half of the fight running frantically about eating all the chop/ flying axe/ wolf bites and stayed dead. He insisted that the boss hated him and the aggro system must be against ele or whatever is at fault for his terrible performance. I wonder, had he tried a group like Skady’s, would he have changed his mind and acknowledge that there are many other possibilities? Instead of just blindly agree to any spoonfed information?

To Talyn, I see an equal amount of jerks who went into a pug group and insist people to do what they want to regardless of whether the LFG is asking for Meta or Casual (i.e. Non-meta). I see people joined a teaching run and wanted to make a speed run out of it. However, elitism only happens when someone thinks they are better than others. And why couldn’t they? When one can simply copypaste a meta build which is generally accepted as the optimal way of playing, one has the potential to be the best player they can be. But it never guarantee you the best performance in any kinds of groups nor situations. I certainly learn the best of my experience more from people who don’t play the meta. I suppose asking people to withhold their judgment against “Non-Meta” players to foster a friendly, supportive community isn’t far-fetched.

Now, if only the kids could stop arguing who is at fault first…

Iris Ng.9845:

Talyn.3295:

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

So its all the meta players fault?

Because people don’t read?

Because people join groups knowing they don’t fit in?

Sorry, I don’t buy this.

It would be like me going to my weekly board game group and setting down with a group of guys who are about to play Settlers of Catan and throwing monopoly down in the middle of the table, then expecting those guys to play my game. Because its my “right” to be included in their group.

I agree with the bolded part in Obtena’s quote. This attitude also applies to people who are not actually playing the meta, but instead, still learning the ropes and even disillusioned themselves that they are representing the “meta players”:

I had a chance to play with Skady’s trio group recently in fractals. The run was smooth and it was a totally different experience. So, I brought up the topic in one of my chill casual runs with another group of friends. Immediately, the friends of my friend mocked her non-meta approach and associated “a healing guard” as an outrageous dead weight. Then we had Mossman. The most opinionated person in his zerker ele spent half of the fight running frantically about eating all the chop/ flying axe/ wolf bites and stayed dead. He insisted that the boss hated him and the aggro system must be against ele or whatever is at fault for his terrible performance. I wonder, had he tried a group like Skady’s, would he have changed his mind and acknowledge that there are many other possibilities? Instead of just blindly agree to any spoonfed information?

To Talyn, I see an equal amount of jerks who went into a pug group and insist people to do what they want to regardless of whether the LFG is asking for Meta or Casual (i.e. Non-meta). I see people joined a teaching run and wanted to make a speed run out of it. However, elitism only happens when someone thinks they are better than others. And why couldn’t they? When one can simply copypaste a meta build which is generally accepted as the optimal way of playing, one has the potential to be the best player they can be. But it never guarantee you the best performance in any kinds of groups nor situations. I certainly learn the best of my experience more from people who don’t play the meta. I suppose asking people to withhold their judgment against “Non-Meta” players to foster a friendly, supportive community isn’t far-fetched.

Now, if only the kids could stop arguing who is at fault first…

I get what you are saying. I don’t ever recall calling anyone dead weight (although I understand that isn’t directed at me). I am pretty open to different builds and learning and helping others.

If you remember I commented on Skady’s post before it went all toxic about pulling out my old wvw clerics gear and giving it a try again.

I to have had people join my runs when I am teaching someone and try to take over the group. So I know very well what you mean. There will be bad (as in just jerks) players everywhere.

My problem is when people seem to focus in on one side and not place any blame on the people who are the root of the problem. I know there are try hards in this game. I also know that it falls on both sides.

I realize that I should try to stick to my light hearted jokes, because I know when I get serious I turn into a kitten hole

I… I… didn’t mean to criticize you. Just point out a single thing that everyone can agree with, instead of being at each other’s throat.

Can’t say that better Iris, very much agree.

Iris Ng.9845:

I… I… didn’t mean to criticize you. Just point out a single thing that everyone can agree with, instead of being at each other’s throat.

I didn’t take it that you were criticizing me.

Or if you were, I at least deserved it. You are always the voice of reason around here.

I agree with you completely, I just want to play in peace. I get so tired of the debates on here. I am upset with myself for getting drawn in to this one.

Obtena.7952:

My point is that we can learn a lesson: Don’t try to impose player-based rules where the game doesn’t support them. I believe it’s resulted in Anet pulling the plug on our instanced-team content. If people change their attitudes towards the ‘not-meta’ players, we might even be able to make this kind of bad behaviour become a rare instance.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

I think social acceptance would be a great start.

I would bet on that happening. It’s not like we can control what people are saying. And it’s like we gonna glorify playing soldier or anything. I don’t mind 1 or 2 guys that play right using those build if the rest if also good and using good build. But now if everybody start using those, you start to have a problem. At least, I and a couple of other people won’t enjoy them.

Now I’m pretty good with just asking for experienced group. I don’t care what build or gear pug are using in my group. But if everbody start to use less than optimal build when they bad on top of that, I probably will start be more specific in my lfg.

I think the situation is fine. People on both side need to grow thicker skin and just try to have fun at the game even if we gonna meet some kittenty people while doing it.

The cleric guardian build worked because the impact of a single player running it is not the same as a full pug group running soldiers/knights and then being surprised when everybody dies to the Urban Fractal packs because not enough damage happened fast enough to kill the adds and that extra bit of toughness still won’t stop mages/warriors from 2-shotting you.

I can just tell when a run goes badly because damage is lacking. It’s not the players’ fault, it’s the combat design and the aggro tables allowing mobs with 5-6k autoattcks to hit you simultaneously and without indication.

You’re just gonna have a terrible time in volcanic fractal, urban fractal, Molten Duo boss fight as examples of where soft DPS checks are established.

And the thing is, survival from toughness is so marginal. By far the biggest impact will be your aegis/protection/blind/weakness uptime on mobs.

Toughness is a hideously weak stat. I think if they buffed toughness by merging it with boon duration and vitality by merging it with healing power, those stats would become a lot more attractive in the “challenging group content” they have planned.

And quite frankly they should rethink power specs. Whereas condition specs will thrive in environments with toughness/vitality checks, power builds that don’t have the trinity of power/precision/ferocity lose far more damage than condi damage/toughness condi builds forgoing Sinister. They diluted the impact of power too much by making it so reliant on stacked precision and ferocity. I’d be happy if they’d just get rid of ferocity altogether and merged its benefits to the power stat itself.

Talyn.3295:

I think I saw one comment in there about how people should pay attention to what was ask in the LFG post.

You did

Talyn.3295:

But mostly It was alot of blaming the Meta community for imposing standards and infectious builds on people.

I don’t think that’s an unreasonable assertion, though I think your adjectives have a bent towards ‘adversarial’ that I was not using. I’m not sure what label you want to give those people or if you want to associate yourself with them but people that truly embrace the philosophy of the game aren’t the ones setting the meta standards and pushing them as optimal gameplay, implying everything else is sub-optimal. The game is designed to play whatever you want to succeed. These two mindsets are oil and water. Hence my point that player induced standards are wrecking things.

Talyn.3295:

I also took away that Trinity games are better because it lets people play healers.

That’s not accurate. Someone brought up something about trinity games; I simply made the clarification that defined roles in those games don’t become an issue because players choose the ones they want to have.

Personally, I would love for team-instanced content to come back. I don’t think it will though, for many reasons. The prevailing attitudes is just one.

theoutsider.7849:

I’m so feeling you there, OP.
See, I grew up a simple farmer in Queensdale. When the Centaurs started their raids on my home lands, I lost everything in the ashes.. friends, family, property..
Having nothing left, you can imagine how limited my options were, how desperate I was.. no money, no one to rely on. With only one choice left, I ventured for the Reach. It was only my third time there, to the great markets where I’d sell crops and buy seeds after a harsh winter.
Exploring the grand city, I accidentally ventured to the Minister’s Waypoint, the great bank and Black Lion Trading Company.. and surrounded I was with many a hero resting with mead and bread after working hard to clear “dungeons.”

I did not understand what it was, and regrettably, my curiosity got the better of me. I asked what should have never been asked and a female human stepped forward.
She looked so frail and small, wearing scantly armor showing so much of her skin. I blushed. The scarf around her neck was striped in pretty colours and looked so comfortable and warm. On her back, a round circuit radiating blue magic.. on her head, bunny ears. And holstered at her waist, always ready to strike, something that looked like a welding torch and a hair dryer from which flowers would sometimes errupt. Her mouth and lips were very much covered in spittle, as if she’d been drooling.. and she asked: “lol u wanna farm cof p1 zerk onLy XD”
It was then I knew I had to run..
Thankfully, Logan Thackeray found me, gave me a purpose.. and now I serve as a loyal Soldier Guard with my steady arms holding sword and board. I could not be happier.
Anyways, the moral of the story is..
Keep far away from these “metazerk” people.. I.. I don’t know what’s wrong with them, but it seems like some sort of satanic disease.
Thank you for reading, keep being awesome OP

I enjoyed this little story, ty for posting

Obtena.7952:

Talyn.3295:

I think I saw one comment in there about how people should pay attention to what was ask in the LFG post.

You did

Talyn.3295:

But mostly It was alot of blaming the Meta community for imposing standards and infectious builds on people.

I don’t think that’s an unreasonable assertion, though I think your adjectives have a bent towards ‘adversarial’ that I was not using. I’m not sure what label you want to give those people or if you want to associate yourself with them but people that truly embrace the philosophy of the game aren’t the ones setting the meta standards and pushing them as optimal gameplay, implying everything else is sub-optimal. The game is designed to play whatever you want to succeed. These two mindsets are oil and water. Hence my point that player induced standards are wrecking things.

Talyn.3295:

I also took away that Trinity games are better because it lets people play healers.

That’s not accurate. Someone brought up something about trinity games; I simply made the clarification that defined roles in those games don’t become an issue because players choose the ones they want to have.

Personally, I would love for team-instanced content to come back. I don’t think it will though, for many reasons. The prevailing attitudes is just one.

I don’t think Trinty games allow the kind of freedom you seem think that they do. Even in those there is a meta. There is simply a meta for the Tank, one for the Healer and one for each DSP class.

Even in those games its impossible to play exactly how you want to play at their most high end play because you are required to have certain gear or use certain spells.

When I used to play Final Fantasy 11 I had to not only level my main class but each sub class which was used for high end content like Sea or Sky. I was also expected to purchase all my spells and make food and gear to be sure I was ready.

Guild wars is very relaxed but there is still an optimal way of doing each fight. Based on skills available and classes. Any fight with lots of projectile attacks makes projectile defensive skills the optimal skills. You can of course try to not use them and out heal the damage or dodge/block more, but you are only making the fight harder on yourself by doing it.

This is based on the standards of the group. Different group standards can mean different things, which is retaliative to the player. The encounters and the skills we have for countering them however remain the same.

I still however disagree with the blame you place on the Meta community. I could just as easily place all or most of the blame on the Non-Meta community, this doesn’t make it right however.

Talyn.3295:

Obtena.7952:

Talyn.3295:

I think I saw one comment in there about how people should pay attention to what was ask in the LFG post.

You did

Talyn.3295:

But mostly It was alot of blaming the Meta community for imposing standards and infectious builds on people.

I don’t think that’s an unreasonable assertion, though I think your adjectives have a bent towards ‘adversarial’ that I was not using. I’m not sure what label you want to give those people or if you want to associate yourself with them but people that truly embrace the philosophy of the game aren’t the ones setting the meta standards and pushing them as optimal gameplay, implying everything else is sub-optimal. The game is designed to play whatever you want to succeed. These two mindsets are oil and water. Hence my point that player induced standards are wrecking things.

Talyn.3295:

I also took away that Trinity games are better because it lets people play healers.

That’s not accurate. Someone brought up something about trinity games; I simply made the clarification that defined roles in those games don’t become an issue because players choose the ones they want to have.

Personally, I would love for team-instanced content to come back. I don’t think it will though, for many reasons. The prevailing attitudes is just one.

I don’t think Trinty games allow the kind of freedom you seem think that they do. Even in those there is a meta. There is simply a meta for the Tank, one for the Healer and one for each DSP class.

The difference is that as long as you can fill your role, people care less about if you run the meta build. Also, most of those games, the BiS gear tends to be more progressive and impact to your abilities, so demanding the meta all the time would mean not alot of players could fill that expectation. It’s just not practical in those situations. In GW2, you can just BUY your endgame meta build so I think that makes it much easier for people to ask others to play it.

Talyn.3295:

I still however disagree with the blame you place on the Meta community. I could just as easily place all or most of the blame on the Non-Meta community, this doesn’t make it right however.

Sure, and if you wanted to say why, I would encourage you to do so. I don’t think the non-meta community is encouraging themselves into these meta builds so … your view would be enlightening.

Obtena.7952:

Talyn.3295:

Obtena.7952:

Talyn.3295:

I think I saw one comment in there about how people should pay attention to what was ask in the LFG post.

You did

Talyn.3295:

But mostly It was alot of blaming the Meta community for imposing standards and infectious builds on people.

I don’t think that’s an unreasonable assertion, though I think your adjectives have a bent towards ‘adversarial’ that I was not using. I’m not sure what label you want to give those people or if you want to associate yourself with them but people that truly embrace the philosophy of the game aren’t the ones setting the meta standards and pushing them as optimal gameplay, implying everything else is sub-optimal. The game is designed to play whatever you want to succeed. These two mindsets are oil and water. Hence my point that player induced standards are wrecking things.

Talyn.3295:

I also took away that Trinity games are better because it lets people play healers.

That’s not accurate. Someone brought up something about trinity games; I simply made the clarification that defined roles in those games don’t become an issue because players choose the ones they want to have.

Personally, I would love for team-instanced content to come back. I don’t think it will though, for many reasons. The prevailing attitudes is just one.

I don’t think Trinty games allow the kind of freedom you seem think that they do. Even in those there is a meta. There is simply a meta for the Tank, one for the Healer and one for each DSP class.

The difference is that as long as you can fill your role, people care less about if you run the meta build. Also, most of those games, the BiS gear tends to be more progressive and impact to your abilities, so demanding the meta all the time would mean not alot of players could fill that expectation. It’s just not practical in those situations. In GW2, you can just BUY your endgame meta build so I think it’s much easier for people to ask for it.

Talyn.3295:

I still however disagree with the blame you place on the Meta community. I could just as easily place all or most of the blame on the Non-Meta community, this doesn’t make it right however.

Sure, and if you wanted to say why, I would encourage you to do so. I don’t think the non-meta community is encouraging themselves into these meta builds so … your view would be enlightening.

Considering that 90% of all meta threads are started by Non-Meta players who are complaining and asking for game changes to turn this game into a Trinity and make them needed, through new game mechanics such as brokenglasses healing power change or the “Hitpoints are outdated” thread in general discussion, I think that would have been self explanatory.

The simple answer, “Make your own group” has been ignored by and large. As I play meta I can only comment on the non meta players joining my groups rather then the other way around, although I have been told it happens to both kinds of group.

Therefore I don’t point fingers saying its this sides or that sides fault. To do so I feel is presumptuous.

I can say I’m having much success finding players just looking to have some fun (meta or not no one seems to care in them) by posting silly LFG messages.

I think when these jerks pop in it just bugs people so much they feel like it’s happening all the time not remembering that it happened like once that day (granted sometimes it’s more than that, but it’s been over a week since I saw one).

Talyn.3295:

Considering that 90% of all meta threads are started by Non-Meta players who are complaining and asking for game changes to turn this game into a Trinity and make them needed, through new game mechanics such as brokenglasses healing power change or the “Hitpoints are outdated” thread in general discussion, I think that would have been self explanatory.

I think the association between those things and not liking meta isn’t as self explanatory as you claim … for the most part, people that don’t like meta because they feel it’s something they are forced into; I think people would be MUCH more accepting of it if the game allowed an easier way for them to discover it themselves. Weirdo healing ideas or Trinity are not going to change the way these people feel about being force-fed meta.

For the most part, I think the calls for trinity would relieve players from the pressures of meta. Yes, there would be a meta heal/tank/DPS build, but it wouldn’t be the FOCUS of putting together a team. Team composition would become more important AND it would allow those players more leniency to whatever stats/gear they felt they needed. It wouldn’t eliminate it, but it would change the landscape and I think that would be enough to start a greater level of social acceptance.

While that sounds all nice, I would hate having to be a trinity role. For me, choosing a role to get in a team is worse than using some gear I may not like to get accepted.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/559/461/705.jpg

Obtena.7952:

Talyn.3295:

Considering that 90% of all meta threads are started by Non-Meta players who are complaining and asking for game changes to turn this game into a Trinity and make them needed, through new game mechanics such as brokenglasses healing power change or the “Hitpoints are outdated” thread in general discussion, I think that would have been self explanatory.

I think the association between those things and not liking meta isn’t as self explanatory as you claim … for the most part, people that don’t like meta because they feel it’s something they are forced into; I think people would be MUCH more accepting of it if the game allowed an easier way for them to discover it themselves. Weirdo healing ideas or Trinity are not going to change the way these people feel about being force-fed meta.

For the most part, I think the calls for trinity would relieve players from the pressures of meta. Yes, there would be a meta heal/tank/DPS build, but it wouldn’t be the FOCUS of putting together a team. Team composition would become more important AND it would allow those players more leniency to whatever stats/gear they felt they needed. It wouldn’t eliminate it, but it would change the landscape and I think that would be enough to start a greater level of social acceptance.

While that sounds all nice, I would hate having to be a trinity role. For me, choosing a role to get in a team is worse than using some gear I may not like to get accepted.

Gonna make this my last post, because I am already irritated at myself for letting myself be drawn into a long argument. Simply put I don’t think a Trinity system would open up the acceptance that you think it would. It would make those who want to heal or tank happy, but it wouldn’t be equal for all classes without series rework.

Right now, any five classes can get together and do any content, with almost any build, no matter how bad. But if we add a trinity we don’t have that. Even Guild Wars one Required Monks, and without those everyone went down quickly, at least until we had other healing options.

5 man instanced content.

Well 1st we need a healer, So a Guardian, or water ele, or a Rev
Now we need a tank, A guardian or a warrior perhaps

Now for our DPS, we have three slots left. We lost the damage from our 1st two slots so we have to make it up here.

So an Ele? They have great DPS
A thief, Of course their DPS is good.
Or an Engi, also very good DPS

But the Necro? The Ranger? The Mesmer? These three, particularly Necro and Ranger have issues with Groups right now. Neither of which is set up to fill the role of Healer or Tank. So the only role for them would be DPS. But They are outclassed by Ele, engi and thief.

So why should we worry about about the trinity? When the simple answer is play with the people who want to play with you?

Back to my board game example. Why should I try to play monopoly with people who want to play Settlers when I could move over one table and play monopoly with people who want to play monopoly?

If we could stop being kittens to each other and let each other play in peace this would be a non-issue.

Talyn.3295:

When the simple answer is play with the people who want to play with you?

the thing is nobody wants to play with necro, this argument is really poor and the problem with necromancer exists only because of the rejection, it’s like telling me when i was bullied in middle school to simply hang out with people who like me

gurl.

Anandira.8756:

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/559/461/705.jpg

Ran out of pop corn many posts ago, now diving into my spare noodle supplies.