Dredge Fractal: Big ANet Success

Dredge Fractal: Big ANet Success

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Posted by: zamalek.2154

zamalek.2154

This is by far, in terms of playing the game correctly, one of the biggest successes of ANet’s game designers. We have very few min-max options (or none?) in order to complete it. No silly stacking in a corner or on the boss cheap brainless tactics – just proper gameplay. From my experience the following works the best (TLDR; play it properly):

  1. Clear all the most on the way to the ramp. Clear? Yep, you heard me right.
  2. Have 3 go to the first pad and fight the mobs while 2 get to the next door.
  3. Once the 2 get in, get 2 of the 3 to head to that area to help out.
  4. Have the final remaining person wait on the door (everyone waits for him/her to get there).
  5. Head up to the next pad and open the door for the next remaining person.
  6. Move back down to the door in order to not aggro the next mobs that spawn. Clear the ones that follow.
  7. Have everyone stack on the door to the control panel room and have one person go to the panel to open it (only draw aggro when everyone is stacked on the door).
  8. Get into the room and kill mobs until the pad person is ready at the door and then quickly let them in (stand on both pads). Getting off the pads while they acclimatise is fine.
  9. Hey! Now you have 5 people in the control panel room! Wow! So DPS! Much easy! Kill crap and activate the pads.
  10. Wipe the mobs at the top of the ramps and to the right near the bomb area.
  11. Rush in, place bombs and GTFO as quickly as possible (back to the ramps).
  12. Go back in and pull groups of mobs in until you have approximately the stairs cleared.
  13. Rinse and repeat until the door is down.
  14. Clear.
  15. In the next room go to near where the pipe used to be (using the same path).
  16. Wipe the ads then for the most part only the boss will be left (only a few ads will rush in which are kitten to deal with).
  17. Once the boss is dead wait at the back of the vehicle and clear the mobs.
  18. Clear all the ice elementals.
  19. Use all 4 spots in the boss room. You have a high enough IQ to do that, I promise.

In other words, exactly the way it was designed to be played. I have played it countless times with minmax types and have had the party wipe just as many. Doing it properly is probably the fastest way to do it with the least amount of armor damage. Doing it properly meant we didn’t wipe once – nor did I really have to concentrate on the fights.

Well done ANet, I know we all kitten about the Dredge fractal; but it really comes across as a proper game. If people did it properly they would have less of a problem with it. No stupid tactics like stacking in a corner (hey hey, AC) or stacking on the boss (hey hey, CoF).

Make more dungeons like Dredge Fractal. Stacking in PvE is pathetic.

Make less dungeons like TA new path. Being unable to play with PUGs is pathetic.

Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working
.

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

What in the world…

No. No this isn’t real. It’s a trap I know it is.

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Posted by: zamalek.2154

zamalek.2154

What in the world…

No. No this isn’t real. It’s a trap I know it is.

Think about it. It really isn’t a trap. As I said we all hate the dredge, but really, in terms of fun, think about it.

Get your guildies to play it with you probably and come back with [a guaranteed different] opinion. If you don’t minmax it’s actually by absolutely far the easiest dungeon.

Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working
.

(edited by zamalek.2154)

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

What do you even mean by minmax. Because pretty sure if you spec to be efficient you are going to have a better experience.

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

“This is by far, in terms of playing the game correctly, one of the biggest successes of ANet’s game designers.”

Well that’s one opinion but given the massive numbers of exploits that players come up with for this fractal you can deduce that

- the design wasn’t that good
- players don’t enjoy doing it
- closing one loophole just drives players to find more
- players will waste any amount of time on jumps and leaps than killing more dredge
- bug fixes are made to adhere to the design rather than creating content players enjoy

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Posted by: zamalek.2154

zamalek.2154

What do you even mean by minmax. Because pretty sure if you spec to be efficient you are going to have a better experience.

You are assuming everyone else in the party is specced correctly. I am referring to LFG here (to be completely honest though, I am WvW specced).

What I mean by minmax is saving quite literally saving theoretically 2 minutes by [previously] using a glitch portal spot to skip the doors, or having one person going to the first pad and practically dying there alone, or basically I really don’t know how many other stupid tactics I have come across in the dungeon (using 2 lava spots on the last boss?) that nearly always end up making things take longer with more armour damage.

I am one that really enjoyed the original AC glitches (it’s how I levelled my first char up). I am extremely familiar with tactics designed to shorten the length of a dungeon. What I am saying is that in dredge they don’t really pay off that well – it’s much more fun and [quite literally due to drops] more rewarding to just do the kitten thing properly. Today I have come to admire that. Given all the patches ANet have done to dredge I would be really surprised to learn a cheap tactic that actually works. Are we supposed to be standing in one spot spamming abilities or are we supposed to be having a good fight?

Keep in mind I never had a problem finishing it, I am just saying, holy crap, doing it correctly is actually good fun and far less annoying/frustrating.

- players don’t enjoy doing it
- closing one loophole just drives players to find more
- players will waste any amount of time on jumps and leaps than killing more dredge
- bug fixes are made to adhere to the design rather than creating content players enjoy

I can’t refute all your points. Honestly man, I felt the same as you: “stupid kitten dredge fractal.” Change your attitude toward it. Don’t try and get it done in 2 minutes flat (an exaggeration). Do it properly. Really, just try it once. Stop trying to find loopholes; let other players find them and waste their time. Stop minmaxing everything.

Honestly, it’s been a while since I did fractals and knowing what I knew I was all for genuine until the boss at the vehicle – at the point I recommended that we jump on the pipe (knowing the previous minmax crap). Unfortunately it had been patched. You know what? We had FUN. We had fun killing the boss; we didn’t wipe – we reacted (like players are supposed to be able to).

Try it before you trash it. Try the dungeon genuinely at least once.

Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working
.

(edited by zamalek.2154)

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Posted by: Subdue.5479

Subdue.5479

Yea… sorry bud zerker builds handle dredge fractal just fine.

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Posted by: Sarahfull.4930

Sarahfull.4930

Im sorry, how do you “man mode” that bomb part? They all hit really really hard?! And you cant leave the bombs there because the silly dredge pick them up. :/

Invis is what works for me and my friends

Sarah

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

What is the highest fractal level you have done dredge fractal on?

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Posted by: Ropechef.6192

Ropechef.6192

This isn’t about your build or gear.

Zamalek,
I agree with you. when a group does dredge “properly” meaning using actual tactics and thought process. its a VERY smooth and enjoyable run. I personally LIKE dredge fractal.

Granted yes we are looking at standard "PuG’ mentality. but When Obal and DnT did the fractals guide shown at 48. you bet that I watched the dredge run. Alas, most people don’t even know that such resources exist. So they come to the forums Cry that its to hard. and when People like Nike and Obal offer methods to succeed. well we all know where most of it goes. pity.

Bottom line, yes, I agree with you. Dredge fractal is a good run

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Posted by: zamalek.2154

zamalek.2154

Invis is what works for me and my friends

You are using your brain to accomplish it. In terms of game design: mission accomplished. The other tactic is to have 4/5 on VOIP and synchronise your push. Most of the bombs will go off; hence the rinse and repeat, even if only one goes off you have still made progress.

What is the highest fractal level you have done dredge fractal on?

38-ish pre-Fractured (as I said, it’s been a while) – at the time ~15 AR. It’s far cry from 60 and I might have have a slightly different opinion at that level, but clearing is probably something I wouldn’t change my mind on.

Thanks mate. I really feel that this is where the fun is at. If all of us didn’t have WoW crap poisoning our mentality we would all see it as such.

Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working
.

(edited by zamalek.2154)

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Posted by: Wethospu.6437

Wethospu.6437

Sure, it is a decent map and pretty good on its own. But people rather do something faster and less painful.

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

38-ish pre-Fractured (as I said, it’s been a while) – at the time ~15 AR. It’s far cry from 60 and I might have have a slightly different opinion at that level, but clearing is probably something I wouldn’t change my mind on.

Coming from the perspective of someone at lvl 49.

I can totally understand why people exploit this. They want a way out. A way out of the monotony that is this fractal. It’s just not fun. It’s like pulling teeth.

This fractal is poorly designed. Why? Even when run smoothly, it’s monotonous with very little reward for time input.

-When the dredge come out of the clowncar as invulnerable but are still able to attack you it’s a total cop out, it’s just cheap and stupid.

-When you kill them you then have to wait for the next wave to spawn, become attackable and then rinse repeat over and over.. I literally fall sleep doing this.

- Some of the instabilities at higher levels can make this fractal even more annoying.

(edited by J Eberle.9312)

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Posted by: mahariel.4981

mahariel.4981

i think i broke my 1 key against the clown car

Engaging gameplay!

Sanctum of Rall (NA) | [LOD]
Morrï Mahariel | Serah Mahariel | Morrï
A bunch of amateur solos from yours truly

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Posted by: Sarahfull.4930

Sarahfull.4930

O///O thanks,

If your on a Na server we should fractal sometime!
Hehe

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

There are plenty of LoS spots in this fractal and you will want to group them up and cc them like any other content. Then again, you can basically skip doing anything in this fractal except for the clown car and bosses.

We have very few min-max options (or none?) in order to complete it. No silly stacking in a corner or on the boss cheap brainless tactics – just proper gameplay. From my experience the following works the best (TLDR; play it properly):"

I guess doing things like the cannon room in 90s is worse than your way. Bombs would be the same idea but takes longer only because you have to wait for them to respawn.

http://youtu.be/YerTi1PM6YU

  1. Use all 4 spots in the boss room. You have a high enough IQ to do that, I promise.

The bosses require you to use only 1 spot and better to use just 1 and wait if you need more pours unless you miss.

http://youtu.be/tiIU_ktc2Ac
http://youtu.be/oXLDvQOKzxU
http://youtu.be/yYg2_WU_7rA
http://youtu.be/wOcfqDcY684

I enjoy the end bosses. The rest is not very good at all.

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Posted by: zamalek.2154

zamalek.2154

O///O thanks,

If your on a Na server we should fractal sometime!
Hehe

Unfortunately EU, but hey /salute to a fellow masochist .

Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working
.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

I’m not really sure about the meaning of what I’ve just read.
I must be drunk.

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Posted by: fadeaway.2807

fadeaway.2807

10/10 good troll.

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Posted by: rfdarko.4639

rfdarko.4639

None of your tactics would benefit less from “min maxing” and none of them exclude “silly stacking” as a means to clear the trash. I think the main point of your post is a good one – people have been exploiting the path for so long people have forgotten it’s even possible to do it without exploiting. Sometimes we need to be reminded it’s not scary or hard, it’s just tedious. But your point is muddled when you conflate exploiting (porting through walls) with tactics (Using line of sight to group enemies, using the most effective gear for the content).

guildless hobo who likes to solo – [x]

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Posted by: Warcry.1596

Warcry.1596

Im sorry, how do you “man mode” that bomb part? They all hit really really hard?! And you cant leave the bombs there because the silly dredge pick them up. :/

Invis is what works for me and my friends

Sarah

I tend to agree that this is a good tactikittenil this happened. Back in July, Cutthroat Politics, doing Candidate Trials, if anyone remembers doing levels 3/4 and finding them difficult (not looking for “these were super easy, l2p”), there was a guide released by some video game blogger saying to stay back away from the enemies and only kill the ones going for treasure by stealthing and DPSing them down, then just break aggro and repeat. I guess ArenaNet told said blogger that that was an exploit and was asked to remove the guide. Then against, two different areas of the game, but accomplishing a similar goal, so I dunno how to feel about it anymore :p

“He shall make whole that which was torn asunder.
Restore that which was lost. And all shall be as one.”

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

#8/9 doesn’t work at higher levels

There’s a better way than #11/12/13

(edited by Ayrilana.1396)

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Posted by: zamalek.2154

zamalek.2154

#8/9 doesn’t work at higher levels

There’s a better way than #11/12/13

Elaborate please?

Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working
.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

#8/9 doesn’t work at higher levels

There’s a better way than #11/12/13

Elaborate please?

The 5 or so on the steps infinitely respawn. The rest only respawn after every two bombs explode. It takes 7 bombs to bring down the door.

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

I tend to agree that the first part is really not as hard as people make it out to be. Problems tend to arise because people try to rush it. My approach:

1. Clear all mobs leading up to the first gate.
2. Two people go to the first switch (this is so in case someone runs into trouble, the 2nd can assist), and step on it. 3 people go through.
3. Wait till the first group is back at the first gate. (Clear mobs leading to second gate while you wait.)
4. Two people go to the second switch and step on it. The first group rejoin the 3rd person and pass the 2nd gate.
5. Wait for the 2nd group to get back to the 2nd gate.
6. One tanky person (usually a Warrior or a Guardian, but a MM necro or a Ranger with a tanky pet works just as well) runs around the drill in a circle to aggro up the dredge, then steps on a switch. A second person runs to the now unguarded 2nd switch and steps on it.
7. 2nd group rejoins the first group. Support classes (Engi, Water Ele, Guardian etc.) go and assist the first tank (and the second, if necessary). Last person (usually Mesmer or Thief, if they have stealth) goes to console and starts opening it.
8. As soon as the last gate opens, everybody runs through and regroups at the top of the ramp. Kill stubborn dredge that don’t leash back.

On average this only takes about 5 minutes. So far every single attempt to use the shortcut I’ve seen has ended up taking at least 10 mins. :P

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

“Do it properly. Really, just try it once. Stop trying to find loopholes; let other players find them and waste their time. Stop minmaxing everything.”

If you’re with a pick up group it’s easier to say than do. People run off in different directions to start different exploits and anyone who tries to clear the trash is just left alone to suffer. There’s no point telling people that the long way is the best because they like to think they’re clever using fancy tricks.

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Posted by: Tachii.3506

Tachii.3506

Make more dungeons like Dredge Fractal. Stacking in PvE is pathetic.

Make less dungeons like TA new path. Being unable to play with PUGs is pathetic.

Notsureifsrs, assuming smart trolling.

SBI – Thief and the occasional Guardian & Warrior.

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Posted by: Charming Rogue.8071

Charming Rogue.8071

I might have missed it, but at what level are you playing this at? At frac 49 this dredge fractal has made more people ragequit then I can think of, because it takes foreeeeveeeerrrrrr. Restarting is usually quicker, but then getting Dredge again will make you tear your head out, so we usually just bear through it.

Desolation – EU – [KING] – Immortal Kingdom

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Posted by: Agaetis.4518

Agaetis.4518

Stop trolling. At higher levels the dredge hit like trucks and it sucks only to bring guardians, warriors and a thief…

For the love of god Arenanet, fix or remove this fractal!

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

hes still right. most people i know have somewhat forgoten what it meant to do a dongeon the ’’legit’’ way. Everytime i enter dredge they do everything they can to cheat their way out of the normal path. Anet needs to fix all those loophole permanantly so to force player to play these dungeons the right way and thats not only true for dredge, everytime i see a mesmer cheat the normal path with a portal it makes me sad.

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Posted by: TheMaskedParadigm.3629

TheMaskedParadigm.3629

The most fun way to do Dredge Fractal that my groups has found is to roll for Dredge on Fractal 38, take in 5 WvW specc’d Necromancers (since I agree, minmaxing is really bad and toxic to the game), and try to kill everything with only poison. You will actually do so little damage and the Instability will cause your poison to heal the mobs, so it is literally impossible to complete the Fractal. It’s a very good design and I suggest everyone try it before they hate on it because that is just their opinion.

Brazil
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Posted by: zerotwo.4731

zerotwo.4731

K, ^ That’s trolling! Dredge is too long when you have to spend time doing other fractals as well. Doing 49 daily I will always do it the quickest way possible. Any griefers get the boot. Time is money.

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Posted by: Kupper.8074

Kupper.8074

The biggest complaint with the dredge fractal is two fold:

1 – If you get bombs. While there are a few methods to do this easyish, it can still be a PITA. If the dredge are angry at you, it could take a while to do. PLUS, downtime waiting for bombs to respawn. My latest strategy is to gear up with the crappy blues/green I’ve gathered so far and be the human distractor so the dredge chase me allowing 4 bombs to be placed.

2 – The clowncar takes forever. While I haven’t timed it exactly, it feels around 8-10 min at lv. 38. The only upside to this is that it is basically the best loot in fractals (outside of the slim chance at ascended/skins at the end).

Solution: Have the champ dredge before the clown car, be the last boss for that fractal. Completely remove the clown car. Remake the last boss into another 4th fractal boss. This would greatly reduce the total length of the fractal, while still leaving the strategy aspect of it.

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Posted by: Kilandros.2098

Kilandros.2098

If approached in a vacuum, the design of Dredge fractal is fine. The problem, however:

1) The rewards are the same as easier, quicker Fractals. This means Dredge is merely a time sink on the road to the daily chest.

2) It’s just 1 of 4 Fractals you need to do. By itself Dredge takes awhile and that’s fine, but the real problem isn’t just the time Dredge takes—it’s the time Dredge adds to the entire Fractal run. People don’t always have 2 hours continuous gaming time available.

Those 2 reasons are why people absolutely abhor Dredge: It makes every run longer and more tedious, and does so without giving any added reward.

(edited by Kilandros.2098)

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Posted by: Tachii.3506

Tachii.3506

^ #1 isn’t really true. You get at least 30 heavy miner’s bags which is about 1g and 2 champ bags. Meanwhile cliffside gives you practically nothing and no champ bags.

SBI – Thief and the occasional Guardian & Warrior.

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Posted by: Kilandros.2098

Kilandros.2098

^ #1 isn’t really true. You get at least 30 heavy miner’s bags which is about 1g and 2 champ bags. Meanwhile cliffside gives you practically nothing and no champ bags.

I totally edited to add and then edited again to remove a pre-emptive reply because I knew someone was going to make this asinine claim.

I’ll tell you what, give players the option to toggle on/off whether Dredge can roll and I bet nearly 100% of the playerbase says to hell with bags and turns it off.

If you want bags there are better places to farm for them. And players who run high-level Fractals do so for the daily chest, not for a chance a bags. The fact is the 1-2g from Dredge is worth neither the time nor the energy required by Dredge. It would be much easier to get a different Fractal and then run HOTW 1 and CoF 1.

Also, I’ll take Cliffside over Dredge any day. Loot difference be kitten ed.

(edited by Kilandros.2098)

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Posted by: Tachii.3506

Tachii.3506

I actually wouldn’t take cliffside over dredge. Dredge takes about maybe 30-40minutes. For 1g, that’s not terrible. Cliffside also takes pretty long yet it has like no rewards aside from the end chest. The beginning boss and end boss fight of that level give no reward and it takes pretty long. Also, cliffside suffers the same problem as dredge where people don’t do it the “legit” way. They fixed the end boss fight but the majority of 49ers still stack for the 2 seals due to outrageous spawns. Doing the 2 seals the legit way might make that level arguably the same length as Dredge.

SBI – Thief and the occasional Guardian & Warrior.

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Posted by: Kilandros.2098

Kilandros.2098

I actually wouldn’t take cliffside over dredge. Dredge takes about maybe 30-40minutes. For 1g, that’s not terrible. Cliffside also takes pretty long yet it has like no rewards aside from the end chest. The beginning boss and end boss fight of that level give no reward and it takes pretty long. Also, cliffside suffers the same problem as dredge where people don’t do it the “legit” way. They fixed the end boss fight but the majority of 49ers still stack for the 2 seals due to outrageous spawns. Doing the 2 seals the legit way might make that level arguably the same length as Dredge.

From my experience (so take with a grain of salt as I could be an outlier), but Cliffside tends to take about half as long as Dredge, plus a couple of minutes. The extra 15-20 minutes required by Dredge isn’t worth the extra gold because, as I said above, I could run HoTW 1 or CoF 1 in less than 15 minutes.

Obviously I’m not saying I’m thrilled to get Cliffside either. But I definitely prefer it to Dredge.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

That wasn’t an asinine reply. You mentioned that it had the same rewards as other fractals when it doesn’t. That was an acceptable response. No reason to attack it if it goes against your opinion. Better to argue against it using facts.

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Posted by: Tachii.3506

Tachii.3506

Yes, there are easier methods to get that 1g. Still, you can only get those once per day. I have enough time to do these dungeons and still remain optimistic enough for that 1 extra g from dredge. I don’t like dredge either, but the rewards actually isn’t terrible for me to completely despise it.

I can understand the hate. The bomb part in dredge is easily the worst PvE experience I know. Without stealth the mad spawns can make the level nearly impossible without suiciding over and over.

SBI – Thief and the occasional Guardian & Warrior.