Guild Wars 2

One thing which should be noted— in a good speed running group, AC is amongst the slowest of dungeons because of the large time-gated events. The awards are actually somewhat natural if you look at it from a time-per-dungeon perspective of a top group. Credit to Nike P. for observing this on reddit a few months ago.

EcoRI.9273:

I just want to say to the OP that you are probably posting this in the wrong place. It is almost like going to a conference for the 1% and telling them, “hey you are being payed too much, I suggest we cut your salaries by X%.” Dungeon farming is the bread and butter for most of the people who dwells in this section of the forums. Personally I agree that dungeon rewards are really good.

This was in General for some time, the powers that be moved it here.

Surprised they didn’t just move it to the trashcan. Oh, wait.

maha.7902:

please give us examples of bosses that don’t use their mechanics if a party is stacked. I always see people say this yet they never give examples.

The TA up champ right before the tree won’t do anything if you stack in a certain place, but that’s obviously a bug …

Aside from that people “stack” when they melee so the only “solution” to stacking would be to go all range. The only place i can think of where stacking is an actual thing and beneficial – but no pugs seem to be able to do that – is Lupicus in second phase with his AoE barrage. All other stacking is breaking LoS behind corners and proper use of surroundings.

Dungeon rewards had already been nerfed sometime ago as Dungeon chests gave way more blues than before.

So no more nerfs pls.

what bullkitten have i just read, give me back my time op

I admit I’ve no clue about economy, but as for the skill => gold comment…

The few times I pug, dungeons like SE p1 often take up to 10min. Yes speedrunners do it very quickly, however you cannot look at this group for rewards, because generally these dungeons are going a lot slower. Anet has got to balance the rewards on the average player, not the full berserker speedrunner that does any arah path in 15-20min.

AC is obviously ridiculous now with the ferocity change. Still it’s annoyingly long because of the heavy timegates, so the reward seems appropriate imo.

Also as people have mentioned before TP flippers are much more to blame when it comes to expensive items. When one person can buy up all sparks and put them back on TP at a 500g higher price, it seems to me the economy has more to worry about than dungeon rewards.

I kind of think your post makes a better argument for fixing cheesing than altering dungeon rewards, OP.

There is some great discussion in this thread and a number of good ideas. I’ve seen two major conversations happening:
1) Dungeons are too rewarding for the amount of effort required
2) Dungeons create too much gold, inflating the economy
I’d like to weigh in on both matters.

1) Effort vs Reward

There is some variety in experience here depending on the path, the players and the group. For simplicity I will refer to less experienced groups consisting of LFG and PUG groups as ‘open’ groups and more experienced and organized groups with optimized gear that frequently run dungeons as ‘organized’ groups.

Currently, organized groups may feel that certain paths are too rewarding for the effort required, but that is rarely the case for the less experienced open groups. Organized parties have optimized gear and often utilize shortcuts that speed up the run that open groups are not equipped for or aware of. Shortcuts vary from taking advantage of enemy AI or bugs to sneaking through seemingly impassable terrain. These shortcuts lower the effort for the organized groups, so while the effort/reward ratio feels appropriate for the open groups, knowing and using the shortcuts makes it feel too easy.

I think that bug-fixing/removing some of these shortcuts will help equalize the disparity between the organized groups and the open groups. Remove the shortcuts and the organized groups will have to put in full effort more similar to open groups for the same reward. The more skilled/ better equipped organized groups will still complete dungeons faster than the open groups, but not by taking shortcuts. This also prevents making an overall “nerf” to the amount of loot rewarded. Remove shortcuts like terrain skipping and take steps to ensure that bosses will be fought “straight up” by all groups. Examples:

• Ascalon Catacombs, Spider Queen- Remove the nook between the entrance stairs and the fence so she can’t be pulled into an area where she won’t use her multi-AoE poison pool attack.
• Twilight Arbor, Fyonna- Pull the group into the boss room and close the door behind you until the boss is defeated/party wipes similar to the Molten Boss fractal. This ensures that the boss’s mechanic (the spider eggs) is a factor in the fight instead of pulling her into a hallway away from the intended battlefield.

Removing shortcuts like these that make particular dungeons the “daily easy dungeons” may help equalize the effort/reward ratios for other dungeon paths or may expose opportunities where rewards balance may still need to be adjusted in the future.

2)Dungeon Gold and the Economy

Dungeons do seem to put a substantial amount of coin into the economy. I agree that is does seem to create more coin as a reward than is beneficial to the economy over time, however, I do not feel that players should receive less reward for completing dungeons. Instead I propose converting the daily bonus rewards to a material standard. Giving players valuable/desirable rewards other than gold limits gold inflation, helping the economy at large with minimal negative impact to the dungeon rewards of players.

Someone above mentioned the possibility of dungeons giving a number of t6 materials instead of a direct gold reward. I propose going generally that direction, but not directly/specifically t6 mats. Instead add a new universal dungeon token replacing the gold awarded in the daily bonus reward for dungeon paths, and a vendor that accepts these tokens for a variety of rewards similar to a laurel vendor.

Adding yet another currency to the game wasn’t my first choice, but it seems to be the least complicated solution to ensure that they can be maximum reward with minimal balancing. Simply replace the current gold bonus at the rate of 1 new token per 50 silver (CoF1= 2 tokens, AC3= 3 tokens, Arah1= 6 tokens). The vendor would then sell things that the player could use or sell on the trading post for gold. Similar to the first tab of the laurel vendor, but instead of ascended rings, trinkets, and amulets, options such as common crafting materials, dragonite ore, liquid karma or icy runestones. Instead of the existing minis and cat tonic, different minis, tonics or even something completely different for a cosmetic reward like a unique hat or back item. Maybe an item similar to the fractal capacitor or spinal blades that can be upgraded over time as a stretch goal.

By replacing gold with reward tokens prevents the creation of gold, while rewarding players with either the items that they would want to spend gold on, or items that they can sell to other players in exchange for gold. The material rewards stimulate trade, removing additional coin from the economy without removing player wealth.

Maxite.6102:

You can rant, pout and insult all you like. But most dungeons do take less time and skill than about any other aspect in the game , yet pay out considerably more. That hardly seems a good thing.

But I am sorry if that upsets your tinfoil hats, or “I hate this game/company yet continue to play!” sensibilities.

And you’re wrong. Champ trains requires 0 skill, 0 gear, 0 anything and you cant get same money per hour as pugging dungeons.

Neos.1834:

• Ascalon Catacombs, Spider Queen- Remove the nook between the entrance stairs and the fence so she can’t be pulled into an area where she won’t use her multi-AoE poison pool attack.

Perhaps the most common misconception about dungeons is the fact that pulling the Spider Queen to that spot removes her ability to use the poison attack. This is false. She only uses the poison attack if someone is out of melee range, so a group stacked in the corner is no different than a group stacked in the middle of the room, except that in the corner, it is easier to cleave down spider babies and utilize skills like Fiery Rush and Whirlwind Attack. The corner is just a widely known spot that eases ensuring everyone is in melee range, removing it would just move everyone to one side of the statue, the back of the room, etc…

Neos.1834:

….

Before openeing thread about dungeon mechanic and rewards, you should know how dungeon works.

Expecially if you suggest changes.
What you asked for wouldn t change the gameplay at all.
And before even questioning to do anything about dungeons they need to do something about TP.

Gold production plummeted
Prices skyrocketed (even on crafting materials).

People is leaving the game.
You still are greedy and don t see that your gold is useless without people playing the game.

OP is right about the inflation side of things. I’d like to see dungeons give t6 crafting mats and salvageable armour/weapons instead of gold.

For example, lesser paths could give
3 t6 crafting mats
1 armor piece (75% yellow 25% exotic chance)
1 weapon (75% yellow 25% exotic chance)

longer paths could give
6 t6 crafting mats
1 armor piece (50% yellow 40% exotic 10% ascended chance)
1 weapon (50% yellow 40% exotic 10% ascended chance)

That would push any skin/precursor/wante ditem even more out of reach of normal players in the hands of TP barons GG.

A mix of both like its now is OK.

Look at champ trains, they gave mostly materials yet they got nerfed and now T5 and T6 skyrocketed.

Actually, giving more T6 mats + rares/exotics should theoretically decrease the price of precursors and t6 mats.

Also the reward s/he suggested is more than 1g at the moment. 3 t6 mats is already 1g and including a rare/exotic item, that’s actually more lucrative than just a flat 1g.

Consequently this will decrease price of t6 and precursors, as more easily accessible rares/exotics means more mystic forge chances.

I saw this thread and thought it was going to be a joke. Please don’t have Anet nerf one of the last farms in the game.

It would lower T6 price and boost precursor price and any luxury item price.
Also skins and put gems Exchange out of reach for non TP speculators.

LordByron.8369:

It would lower T6 price and boost precursor price and any luxury item price.
Also skins and put gems Exchange out of reach for non TP speculators.

Not really. You can simply sell the rares/ectos/t6 for money. It also probably won’t increase precursor price considering there will be more rares and exotics on the market.

Tachii.3506:

LordByron.8369:

It would lower T6 price and boost precursor price and any luxury item price.
Also skins and put gems Exchange out of reach for non TP speculators.

Not really. You can simply sell the rares/ectos/t6 for money. It also probably won’t increase precursor price considering there will be more rares and exotics on the market.

Cheaper T6 could increase demand for precursors, however there will definitely be an offset since exotics will be cheaper which will drive down the cost to forge a precursor. The question then becomes, does the offset negate the demand increase or not?

Keep in mind there will be less gold because of this (considering rewards are items). If more people can’t purchase precursors at that high of a price, I don’t see the TP flippers to have that much success continuing to increase the precursor price.

You’d have to wonder who are the players buying precursors? Can’t be the people that use real money to buy, since they’d rather buy the actual legendaries instead. I’d say most of the people buying precursors would fall into 2 categories: the TP flippers + people who farm everyday in dungeons and other activities for gold. These are the only 2 that’d have that much gold in the first place and affect each other on the pricing of precusors. The TP flippers won’t gain anything if nobody buys their stuff, so with less gold from the farmers, chances are there won’t have any profit increasing the price.

What I’d guess is more people will use the forge with more rares/exotics on the market. Perhaps the TP flippers will flip rares/exotics instead, but since there will always be more of them via dungeon runners, I can’t say they’ll be successful in that regard. With more forge attempts, there will be a bit more non-flippers selling precursors. Of course, the demand/supply for t6/precursors would also be a tricky one and impossible to predict.

As long as they nerf Fractal rewards. They’ve really gotten out of hand.

LFP COF P1 FULL ZERK SPEED $$$BILLSYALL