There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Forgive my Intrusion
I am aware that this would take some work, but, I also believe that if you are going to do something, you should do it, fully, and complete the task, not leave things still hanging around.
Historically, this has never really been the case. The devs generally run a tight ship, but we’ve got lots of loose ends throughout the game, some of them are far worse (Tribal and Stalwart armours, the WvW exclusive weaponset for example)
They never intended to shut them down, just to ‘de-incentivize’ them. Which is reasonable, I suppose, as they don’t intend to do anything new with them. Leaving the dungeons open but unattended is better than making drastic changes. Quite a few people still enjoy them as they are.
I do like your suggestion though. I think it would work even if dungeons remain unchanged. We can always use more incentives for open world play in Central Tyria.
Fair Points,
Allow me my rebuttal, you see, my main reason for simply shutting them down, is only because, I am aware that they do not have a team that tends the dungeons, this means, that as bugs arise, and they will, they won’t even get addressed, much less fixed.
And we know that even simple bugs in the system can ruin the entire experience of people who at one time enjoyed the Dungeons, the fact that know this will never get corrected will only make them feel disenchanted and neglected.
It’s never a positive thing for a entertainment company to make someone, anyone, feel neglected. Anyone that works with the public knows that If you can’t tend to a specific product, or don’t have the means to care for section of your business, it is better to close it off and remove it from public, then to allow your clients to see, shall we say, the Cobwebs in the Closet.
Anet has made it clear, they don’t have the means to tend to their dungeons. As such, as opposed to allowing them to decay and eventually (assuming they are not already) become a problem, even an embarrassment, due to negligence, or even the fact that it’s been established this aspect of the game is terminated, it is always best to just close, lock and nail shut, the door to a room you will never use again.
I think trying to keep them open, after deliberately making them unappealing to drive people away from playing them. is, like, well for lack of a better analogy, it’s like breaking up with someone and saying “lets be friends”
It;s better to make a clean break, it’s over, it’s been a good run, it was fun, but, it’s done. It was grand experience and experiment, that I am sure many enjoyed, but it’s become a failed project, the funds were cut, and when that happens, we are best to remove it, clean up the mess, and move forward.
The key point here, is clean up the mess.
We know it’s not ever going to come back, Anet is not going to revitalize dungeons, they have admitted Dungeons as they were designed are done, finished, never again. And it’s only fitting that if they are dead, then we should be able to say goodbye to them, and allow them to gone, as opposed to being clung to where they will fester and rot.
Perhaps, maybe a have a Celebration to End the Explorer Paths, a have the NPC’s that led the paths leave the Dungeons, Triumph, they Won!
That would be grand, have a Living World like event to End the Explorer Modes.
The designers and developers say this game is evolving, changing, nothing is set, and part of change, is closing some doors as you open others.
Sorry for the Long Post.
Thank you for taking the time to read it.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
-.-a
Well, if they don’t remove the dungeon, people who actually wants to play it can still do that, at least. Why would you want to remove it completely? I’m sure most people would rather Anet keep SAB open but remove the reward instead of removing it completely like they did =p
I think trying to keep them open, after deliberately making them unappealing to drive people away from playing them. is, like, well for lack of a better analogy, it’s like breaking up with someone and saying “lets be friends”
Eh, I think it’s just preference. I kinda stayed friends with my ex even after we broke up, and I think we’re doing just okay, we don’t hate each other or anything (or at least I hope so)
Forgive my lake of knowledge of Acronyms, what is SAB?
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
SAB = Super Adventure Box
They won’t remove dungeons because they’re at least playable, they’re just not supporting further development on them. There is another thread on the main forum discussing this exact same topic, so I’ll quote my post from there.
Dungeons are strung together with difficult-to-parse scripting and are very hard to diagnose when issues come up. Fractals create an environment that’s much easier to simply drop in a new Fractal, whereas dungeons require massive amounts of terrain design and map locations, and require lots of very specific custom skins associated with them. In the case of Fractals, a lot of these things are much lower impact.
I’m not surprised ANet dropped dungeons, honestly. They were an unsustainable system.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
I’m not surprised ANet dropped dungeons, honestly. They were an unsustainable system.
*With their budget and current level of development.
Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”
I’m not surprised ANet dropped dungeons, honestly. They were an unsustainable system.
*With their budget and current level of development.
Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”
How many other games have dungeons AND big open world events with 100 players participating though?
Like, I play Blade and Soul, and they just keep adding dungeons every patch, simply because at level cap all you gonna do every day is just clearing dungeons. GW2 has more diverse end game.
I’m not surprised ANet dropped dungeons, honestly. They were an unsustainable system.
*With their budget and current level of development.
Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”
How many other games have dungeons AND big open world events with 100 players participating though?
Like, I play Blade and Soul, and they just keep adding dungeons every patch, simply because at level cap all you gonna do every day is just clearing dungeons. GW2 has more diverse end game.
You are correct. Which is why I said they put their priorities elsewhere. That still does not mean that dungeons as a play mode are unsustainable. Yours and my statements are not opposing each other.
In a perfect world they would have the money to hire a full dungeon team on top of their current developer resources. Then we could have both!
It’s never a positive thing for a entertainment company to make someone, anyone, feel neglected.
Yea, so let’s completly remove an area of the game that many people like to play, that will help. /s
*With their budget and current level of development.
Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”
Dungeons are unsustainable. The way they are implemented with the dungeon team from pre-launch makes them nigh impossible to support in their current form. The company’s tech has improved substantially, but dungeons are isolated from all of that and would require incredible amounts of effort to bring back up to snuff and maintain. It would require so much effort, in fact, that it would negatively impact schedules for other things that they need to do in order to keep afloat as a company. So yes, dungeons are unsustainable, and ANet has put their priorities elsewhere as a result of that fact.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
*With their budget and current level of development.
Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”
Dungeons are unsustainable. The way they are implemented with the dungeon team from pre-launch makes them nigh impossible to support in their current form. The company’s tech has improved substantially, but dungeons are isolated from all of that and would require incredible amounts of effort to bring back up to snuff and maintain. It would require so much effort, in fact, that it would negatively impact schedules for other things that they need to do in order to keep afloat as a company. So yes, dungeons are unsustainable, and ANet has put their priorities elsewhere as a result of that fact.
We are saying the same thing and arguing over one word. For Anet, yes, dungeons are apparently unsustainable. However, if they decided they were scrapping the WvW update and tossed all the development power into dungeons instead would they be? Or if there was room to hire 30 developers and make them a dungeon team?
As I said, they are unsustainable because Anet has decided to not make them a priority. They very well could decide dungeons are the most important thing they want to work on and divert the lion-share of their resources to them. They would no longer be unsustainable.
Dungeons in there very nature are not unsustainable. Anet has chosen to divert resources and structure themselves in a way that they cannot sustain what it would need. You can’t blame the dungeons for it. You blame Anet for deciding it wasn’t worth it. This game, for the most part, is awesome. That tells me there are a lot of really smart, really talented people working on it. If they had the time, will and manpower. I have no doubt they could make dungeons a sustainable, rewarding part of the game.
I will try to address everyone, but, this might take a bit. If I don’t directly quote, that does not mean I have not read your post, but simply that someone else may have already addressed what you have said, and I simply opted to quote them instead.
Please do not feel left out if I do not directly reply to you.
-.-a
Well, if they don’t remove the dungeon, people who actually wants to play it can still do that, at least. Why would you want to remove it completely? I’m sure most people would rather Anet keep SAB open but remove the reward instead of removing it completely like they did =p
Ok, now that someone explained what SAB is, Super Adventure Box. A dungeon that was closed before I even started playing, so I had to ask some people that were around when it came out, what it was about.
Lets discuss something. Anet has made it clear that dungeons are no longer going to be supported, this means they are already in the trash can, it just has not been hauled out out. Simply put, it’s still around, but it’s been officially junked.
Now think about that, players still cling to wanting to play dead content, even after Anet have came out said, they are off budget.
I know what I am about to say will sound a tad bit rude, but the reality is, You can’t give players hope like that. They will allow their wistful thinking to override the facts before them, and cling to some hope that Dungeons will somehow return.
Which is why it is best that they closed the SAB, if they had kept it open, even if a zero reward, players would somehow dupe themselves (or dupe others) into believing that it will come back, Why else would they leave it live if it was not coming back. Irrational, perhaps, but that is the nature of the game. Just they it is. In due time players would start to get upset that the SAB did not reopen, and even start to make claims that Anet promised to open it Soon™
I have seen this same scenario play out in other games, where simply by virtue of not deleting the content, players assumed, even demanded that the content that was in, be completed. And their perseverance is staggering, in one game I played which I will not name, they still did not get the hint after 10 years of no update on a skill set, and some of them got increasingly angry that their skill-set was being passed up. They made claims that the company promised them up-date, even in the face of not being able to support this, and even finding several posts by developers saying exactly the opposite, they clung to their stand, adamantly.
No.. No.. it is far better to remove something once you made the decision to pull the plug on it, nothing good ever came of letting something linger, to be gossiped about by those that refuse to accept it’s demise.
I think trying to keep them open, after deliberately making them unappealing to drive people away from playing them. is, like, well for lack of a better analogy, it’s like breaking up with someone and saying “lets be friends”
Eh, I think it’s just preference. I kinda stayed friends with my ex even after we broke up, and I think we’re doing just okay, we don’t hate each other or anything (or at least I hope so)
Wow, umm, this is awkward, you have interjected your personal relationship into a post, and put me on the spot to say something about it.
Well, I would like to start off by saying I hope that your point was to try and present that what I was saying was not as finite as I presented it to be.
At the same time, this has put in quite the conundrum to congratulate you on being friend-zoned by a former lover.
Well, not sure I can do that, but I can share in what you have said, I know a few friends of mine that have remained friends with their Ex’s, typically this was caused by outside pressure however, children, very social family links, IE: Their parents got along really well, and thus they would be required to attend the same social gatherings. Among all of them, while I know of at least a few that were civil, and even respectful to each other, I don’t ever know of any of them that truly became friends. However, I do know of a few people that broke up, and got back together, but, in those cases, I never recalled them saying “lets be friends” between their hiatus from each other.
But I am rambling, simply put, it is better to work for what is best, and in Anet’s situation, they have removed the funding and even the department that worked on Dungeons, it is not so much that they will not be undated, it is that they are being abandoned. It is far better to close off what is Abandoned then give anyone the illusion that it is still in business when It’s not.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I’m not surprised ANet dropped dungeons, honestly. They were an unsustainable system.
*With their budget and current level of development.
Plenty of games do dungeons just fine. Anet just put their priorities elsewhere. That is fine. That doesn’t make dungeons “unsustainable”
This is wonderfully said. It is not a question of if they can, or can’t maintain the dungeons, It is the simply fact that they have Opted Not To.
In my OP, my point is simply that as opposed to letting something linger, it is better to turn it off.
My reasons are simple enough, it’s clear that Anet won’t maintain/fix any issues that arise with Dungeons, as such, over time entropy will take effect, and it will become a depreciating game mode, with the few hold outs that still cling to that Dungeon Run experience, feeling neglected and abandoned. Which is exactly what they are being.
No one needs to endure that. No one needs to have to face a slow leeching reality that their little pet game mode has been put on the clearance isle.
It’s better to make it clean, in fact, make it a large production event. That way players can talk about the day the Explorer paths closed, as opposed to players fussing that Dungeons are becoming unplayable due to bugs and neglect.
It would be best for the community as a whole, to make a clean break from a game mode they no longer plan to support. That just makes sense.
This post would also address what Chaos.5072 put out. Rising Dusk and Bloody Nine are quoted, so, I hope you both realize that this post should address what you have said so far.
Have a Great Day.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Dungeons are still a basic (if optional) set of anchor points in the main storyline. I just finished the last story dungeon today, and I didn’t do it for money. The mastery point entered into my thoughts, but that wasn’t the main reason, either. I’m just a completionist. I like doing all the possibilities, and dungeons are part of that.
I did think that it might be good to do them NOW, rather than later, in case ANet removes them entirely. But, I don’t think they will. They provide the background for Destiny’s Edge getting back together to help the party take down Zhaitan. Without the dungeons, there’s no way to understand why they just seem to be nicer to each other later in the storyline.
So, I don’t think they CAN eliminate them entirely. Plus, it was fun.
Now, I don’t really understand why they change when you go explorable. I would like to understand the lore reason for that.
Dungeons are still a basic (if optional) set of anchor points in the main storyline. I just finished the last story dungeon today, and I didn’t do it for money. The mastery point entered into my thoughts, but that wasn’t the main reason, either. I’m just a completionist. I like doing all the possibilities, and dungeons are part of that.
I did think that it might be good to do them NOW, rather than later, in case ANet removes them entirely. But, I don’t think they will. They provide the background for Destiny’s Edge getting back together to help the party take down Zhaitan. Without the dungeons, there’s no way to understand why they just seem to be nicer to each other later in the storyline.
So, I don’t think they CAN eliminate them entirely. Plus, it was fun.
Now, I don’t really understand why they change when you go explorable. I would like to understand the lore reason for that.
I agree with you that Story Mode Dungeons are an integrated aspect of the Personal Story, in fact, I mentioned this directly in my OP, that the story mode should remain intact, for both flavor and fun. Perhaps have it drop some tokens as well just for the sake of it.
The explorer paths are, what can go away, or the only paths that would be removed. The explorer paths were “What happens after the Story mode is Done” in essence, for example, using Honor of the Waves, the Explorer paths are what happens after Eir is done in Honor the Waves, now the Kodan go to take back their Sanctuary.
They don’t add to the world story, those explorer paths are self contained within the Dungeon itself.
As I see it, if Anet has opted to discontinue dungeons, which they have in the sense that they do not have a Dungeon team anymore, they should do away with the Explorer paths, so that players are not stuck in limbo wondering what gives.
If they made the executive decision to cut them, they should, for the sake of the game and the players, at least, close them to some extent, so that no one is wondering what is going on, or why they don’t receive any love.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty