Guild Wars 2

Many of you guys have been saying that DPS is the only thing that matters in dungeons. Well I made a video showing how I was able to speed run as a lvl60 thief 0 dps pure support in blind, defiance crowd control, and stealth.

http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i/c/6705679
Here is the video to show the speed.
TL:DW
CM averaged 5minutes each.
TA averaged 7 minutes each.
SE p1 was 5minutes.
SE p3 was 7minutes.

if you ran DPS you could of cut those times down by 20% respectively

Baconplease.1657:

if you ran DPS you could of cut those times down by 20% respectively

I didn’t know DPS increased your party’s movement speed.

Wethospu.6437:

Baconplease.1657:

if you ran DPS you could of cut those times down by 20% respectively

I didn’t know DPS increased your party’s movement speed.

He means the meta speed clear builds…which are mostly DPS with support built into them as well. So..

I came into this thread and was expecting a full PVT Thief solo all those paths mentioned. I was sorely dissapointed.

All I see is stealth abuse and 4 dps carrying the Thief at bosses.

You could have been a walking broomstick as long as you still had stealth, you’d lost maybe 5 seconds. The “0 dps Thief” part has little to do with it.

EcoRI.9273:

Many of you guys have been saying that DPS is the only thing that matters in dungeons. Well I made a video showing how I was able to speed run as a lvl60 thief 0 dps pure support in blind, defiance crowd control, and stealth.

Interesting fact, you can do ALL that while wearing zerker gear. :P

But then again, you only need 2~3 “true” DPS in team to achieve the boss melting effect, that’s why some seasoned dungeon runners don’t mind leeches.

EcoRI.9273:

Many of you guys have been saying that DPS is the only thing that matters in dungeons.

Hardly anyone is saying that.

What people have been pointing out is that high-DPS builds are the most efficient. Your example shows that there are other team combinations possible that are also fast; they just aren’t as speedy.

Most people don’t have a clue about efficient. In lots of pug runs the biggest slowdown comes from bad tactics and execution, not build.

Obviously a better build is better but that’s not what most people should be worrying about.

Guys, for kittenlord’s sake, look at EcoRIP’s posts history on these fori !

The guy has been doing speedruns all along. What he’s trying to say isn’t : “I can play support and be fast” expecting yall to go “if you truly went lvl 80 and right gear it would be even faster”. What he’s showing is that the tactics and clever use of game mechanics matter more than just slapping berserker gear on :/

The way he presents his method is a bit antagonistic, so you can’t really blame people for giving back in a negative way. If he’d presented it as, “Hey, decided to try something a little different”, that would be fine, but he didn’t. Also, there are speed runs where Mesmers helps spoof and support, but they don’t ignore DPS to do so.

Enaretos.8079:

What he’s showing is that the tactics and clever use of game mechanics matter more than just slapping berserker gear on :/

Meta gameplay also requires clever use of game mechanics. If you just slap berserker gear and nevermind the rest, you’ll be a floor mop (unless playing Warrior).

When mesmers “spoof and support”, you can see dem centaur runes :>

Also he didn’t try to do anything different. He could have done a lvl80 run naked, just to prove that it isn’t the gear that is the problem.

EcoRI.9273:

Many of you guys have been saying that DPS is the only thing that matters in dungeons. Well I made a video showing how I was able to speed run as a lvl60 thief 0 dps pure support in blind, defiance crowd control, and stealth.

http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i/c/6705679
Here is the video to show the speed.
TL:DW
CM averaged 5minutes each.
TA averaged 7 minutes each.
SE p1 was 5minutes.
SE p3 was 7minutes.

And?

Thank you Wethospu and Enaretos for making my message more clear. :-)

Prototypemind.4026:

The way he presents his method is a bit antagonistic, so you can’t really blame people for giving back in a negative way. If he’d presented it as, “Hey, decided to try something a little different”, that would be fine, but he didn’t. Also, there are speed runs where Mesmers helps spoof and support, but they don’t ignore DPS to do so.

That’s quite incorrect. If you watch actual Speed Runs with mesmer they’re often off running to the next boss contributing nothing in damage just to drop a portal to make movement quicker.

People seem to ignore the fact that much (if not most) of any dungeon is simply travel time.

Thief is one of the few classes in the game that can use their strongest support abilities while still pumping out great dps.

You would be a fool not to run support/dps on thief.

Lol so many people completely missing the point.

spoj.9672:

Lol so many people completely missing the point.

It isn’t exactly anything new, came off as the typical meta is bad blah blah

Edit: and would of been better if he was fully lvled with zerk gear without having to be carried dps wise

The point being 4 people can do a speedrun?

spoj.9672:

Lol so many people completely missing the point.

What point was he trying to make exactly?

“You don’t have to run the meta if you are getting carried”

??

Why do people keep moking bow bear or necro. When their run is even slower than 5 necro or 5 bow bear.

I think that’s the point.

After a certain point, adding extra dps has almost no return on how fast things die, but adding extra support can greatly reduces time between bosses.

However for the majority of PuG groups that’s too fine a point as skipping is done only in places where its very obvious (or too painful otherwise), and usually done in less than efficient manner.

Think of these two scenarios for dungeons like CM/TA/ARAH:
1: Thief is pure DPS, will not support the team what so ever in blind, stealth, CC.
2: Thief is pure support, no DPS.

Which do you think will make the dungeon go more smoothly and faster?
The point I am making is support from thief is far more important than the DPS it offers. This logic can also be applied to other classes.

I can do a full 5man naked dungeon tour if you guys want, it will probably still be faster than most “zerker only” pugs.

EcoRI.9273:

Think of these two scenarios for dungeons like CM/TA/ARAH:
1: Thief is pure DPS, will not support the team what so ever in blind, stealth, CC.
2: Thief is pure support, no DPS.

Which do you think will make the dungeon go more smoothly and faster?
The point I am making is support from thief is far more important than the DPS it offers. This logic can also be applied to other classes.

I can do a full 5man naked dungeon tour if you guys want, it will probably still be faster than most “zerker only” pugs.

You forgot

3. Thief brings the proper equipment (shortbow) and utility skills…
….and traits for DPS with DPS gear.

AND OMG WOW BOTH HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE OMFG

EcoRI.9273:

Think of these two scenarios for dungeons like CM/TA/ARAH:
1: Thief is pure DPS, will not support the team what so ever in blind, stealth, CC.
2: Thief is pure support, no DPS.

Which do you think will make the dungeon go more smoothly and faster?
The point I am making is support from thief is far more important than the DPS it offers. This logic can also be applied to other classes.

I can do a full 5man naked dungeon tour if you guys want, it will probably still be faster than most “zerker only” pugs.

I think you are missing the point in the responses, thiefs DO bring supports with dps included, stop trying to compare randoms who want to play how they want to dps groups that organize themselves

Edit: the meta isn’t a standard build for every dungeon, it is a base that can get changed for different scenarios. I main guard that switches between utilities and traits during different scenarios, you are doing a bad job in trolling or being blind

Enaretos.8079:

What he’s trying to say isn’t : “I can play support and be fast” expecting yall to go “if you truly went lvl 80 and right gear it would be even faster”. What he’s showing is that the tactics and clever use of game mechanics matter more than just slapping berserker gear on :/

If that’s what he’s trying to say, he failed. What I, and everybody else, got, is that 3 boss-melting people in a party can carry anything with them. Also, if the guys being carried bring some support that doesn’t scale with gear (like blinds, invis, blocks) they may even prove useful even if they are not lvl 80 zerkers.

Aenesthesia.1697:

if the guys being carried bring some support that doesn’t scale with gear (like blinds, invis, blocks) they may even prove useful even if they are not lvl 80 zerkers.

Yep!

Most people fail to see past the DPS of class. Support is actually way more important to a team.

EcoRI.9273:

Aenesthesia.1697:

if the guys being carried bring some support that doesn’t scale with gear (like blinds, invis, blocks) they may even prove useful even if they are not lvl 80 zerkers.

Yep!

This is just a silly post. Every thing is easy in premade. There are probably trio record even faster than your 5 man.

Try to do it in pug.

and you act like people dont’ know stealth makes dungeon faster. Everyone knows that.

laokoko.7403:

There are probably trio record even faster than your 5 man.

So if 3zerkers are faster than 4/5zerkers, what does that mean? That zerker DPS is not that important for speed right?

One should not be so proud of there leaching skills

welp no point now since its been moved to dungeon forum where most people understand what speed is.

EcoRI.9273:

laokoko.7403:

There are probably trio record even faster than your 5 man.

So if 3zerkers are faster than 4/5zerkers, what does that mean? That zerker DPS is not that important for speed right?

No it means your group is not as good as the other group.

Everyone knows thief stealth or guardian reflect makes dungeon faster and easier. You don’t need to twist people’s word like that.

People is just saying there is no point wearing toughness or healing gear, or defensive traits.

If you want to prove your pre-made is better than pug you prove your point. I’d like to see you carry pug in your 0 dps gear and a bunch of people don’t know how to play.

I got slapped once for that little comment >_>

laokoko.7403:

EcoRI.9273:

laokoko.7403:

There are probably trio record even faster than your 5 man.

So if 3zerkers are faster than 4/5zerkers, what does that mean? That zerker DPS is not that important for speed right?

No it means your group is not as good as the other group.

Okay so speed running requires skill and not because of zerker gear. I’m fine with that.

EcoRI.9273:

welp no point now since its been moved to dungeon forum where most people understand what speed is.

which is why I keep telling necro or bow bear is not the reason “pug” is slow.

it only make a big difference when people is trying to push 1 or 2 minutes difference in super speed run.

I dont’ know why people keep thinking necro or ranger even matters when their pug run is like 4 times longer than world record.

EcoRI.9273:

laokoko.7403:

EcoRI.9273:

laokoko.7403:

There are probably trio record even faster than your 5 man.

So if 3zerkers are faster than 4/5zerkers, what does that mean? That zerker DPS is not that important for speed right?

No it means your group is not as good as the other group.

Okay so speed running requires skill and not because of zerker gear. I’m fine with that.

well if you can repost a 5 man nomad run and make it fast people might believe you. your other teamates is actually wearing zerker. Or even cleric if you dont’ have easy access.

I actaully want to make 5 man necro runs just to laugh at all the people mocking necro. Why do people even care if there’s a necro in the party when their run is so slow that it dont’ matter.

This thread proves it, we need to nerf swiftness. The proof is right there.

I appreciate the message you’re trying to convey, Eco, but I don’t think this is the right audience. I mean, every speed running guild member who views these forums already knows the importance of team support. Every argument against or for anything in meaningful discussions (I’ve read them all) for the past forever invokes team support. The only people who talk about damage like it is the end-all-be-all of dungeon clearing are bad players who don’t yet know better. Even the people who think going fast or berserker gear is an exploit are more common here than your target audience. :P

Rising Dusk.2408:

I appreciate the message you’re trying to convey, Eco, but I don’t think this is the right audience. I mean, every speed running guild member who views these forums already knows the importance of team support. Every argument against or for anything in meaningful discussions (I’ve read them all) for the past forever invokes team support. The only people who talk about damage like it is the end-all-be-all of dungeon clearing are bad players who don’t yet know better. Even the people who think going fast or berserker gear is an exploit are more common here than your target audience. :P

It was originally in the general discussion forum but got moved by a modQ.Q

Eco, can I have the build, 10/10 would use in fractals with guild. Looks like the most efficient thief build nowadays

With the new player experience, I had no traits lmao.

EcoRI.9273:

It was originally in the general discussion forum but got moved by a modQ.Q

Oh, well that certainly makes more sense then.

It’s unfortunate, I thought it was a good post, but it seems it went over people’s heads. Learning how to play and use your skills is more important than zerker gear. I’ll take a nomad’s thief that actually plays this way over a zerker theif who just knows how to spam 1 with maybe a CnD and HS thrown in here and there.

a lot of people missed the point, what Ecori was trying to show is, while Damage is important, support play just as big of a role if not more in a group. It’s not your traditionnal mmo support, but it’s there.

Also of course it would have been different if the whole party had barely any damage, but it wouldn’t be as bad as people may expect.

Funny thing is Ecori supports his group more on an underleveled, undergeared and traitless character than most of the guys complaining here.
It’s hard to believe that efficient dungeon running is a mix of team composition, synergy, strategies and gear. Meh..

GrimmR.3541:

Funny thing is Ecori supports his group more on an underleveled, undergeared and traitless character than most of the guys complaining here.
It’s hard to believe that efficient dungeon running is a mix of team composition, synergy, strategies and gear. Meh..

Who would of known using your class utilities is so important

Active defense is an exploit.
This thread is proof of that.

Pls nerf active defense.

(It’s only a matter of time, guys. You know it’s going to happen.)

On a serious note, tho:
I understand the importance of active defense and utility, but pure raw naked (rawr) damage is still way~~~ too useful over everything else currently. (for my taste)

Ah I don’t know, I’m seeing pretty awesome things in fractals as a healer elly. I’m in high demand! True story

basically what this thread actually shows, is stats aside from DPS dont really matter.
Yeah he is running the dungeon well, he can do everything just as well as anyone else with no stats, except DPS.

Which i say means they should either get rid of stats, or change the way they function, but thats a debate for another thread.

Wethospu.6437:

Baconplease.1657:

if you ran DPS you could of cut those times down by 20% respectively

I didn’t know DPS increased your party’s movement speed.

Not only! I’ve heard it increases…uhm…“performance” by 20% as well!