Guild Wars 2

I really enjoy so much with my condi Mesmer in PvP, WvW and open world. Only place i havent entered yet are dungeons. Not sure if i should give condi a try or not for that part?
If yes, do i use Scepter/Torch only or should i swap to Staff if mobs and bosses are not moving much?

Everything is viable in this game. People have cleared dungeons Naked solo.

I like mesmers who are unique in their own condition-damaging way!

So…

no.

no.
dont make other peoples lives hell pls.
Create your own LFG “all welcome” pls.
Edit: Time to go back and hug all those GS mesmers, they at least brought a reflects, condi removal and portals o/

Mesmer isn’t the best dps for dungeon to begin with and from what I heard condi mesmer is a bit less dps than assassin or zerker mesmer. So it’s probably not a good idea. I wouldn’t go near as far as saying that you gonna make other people live hell.

In reality a lot lot lot of people just don’t know what exactly is the dps of a mesmer condi including myself. I didn’t found anything anywhere on the net, so maybe only a couple of people out there did the actual math/testing.

Apparently it can do good damage and is solid for solos. Mesmer DPS in generally is pretty meh anyways, not only at max potential but also due to the impracticality of illusions getting wiped away in a single swipe. So I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Your synergy with conjured weapons will drop which is IMO something to consider if you go with an Ele as Ice Bow and Lightning hammer are nice to lend the mesmer some better damage.

My bigger concern would be losing weapon skills though. There are plenty of areas where a focus is just huge. Sword mainhand has the evade which is invaluable at times. And even offhand sword can be very sweet for the block. I wouldn’t really want to go without at least having a sword and focus ready for specific encounters.

Overall I’d take a mesmer that knew what utilities to have and how to use them even if they did 0 damage. It’s much more a profession based on reflects, condi cleanse, portals, and what have you than it is a profession about DPS.

I tried the condi build by frifox and honestly, wasn’t impressed with its passive and slow play style. Also, condi mesmer doesn’t have cleave and the ramp up time is significantly higher than other classes. Unless you are solo or don’t mind skipping on the loots, I would say no.

EcoRI.9273:

Everything is viable in this game. People have cleared dungeons Naked solo.

This is the correct answer on here. There is nothing that isn’t viable, as everything is capable of working.

Now if you mean to ask whether or not a condi mesmer is good is a completely different story. Do you mean to ask whether or not it’s a good thing to bring in groups? If so, the answer is a definite no.

Viable? Yes. Good DPS? Kinda. Worth it? Not really.

Going condi means throwing away all the utility mes has to offer to achiveve competitive dps. Why go condi when you can go power, do more or less the same dps as condi and still retain almost all the awesome utility we have to offer. There is little to absolutely no reason to go condi when in a full party. You are a utility bot so capitalize on that, leave dps to eles…

Yea, sure, you wont break speed-run record but it should work, not like dungeons are black magic-impossible level difficulty. Just do it with your guild/friends. Friendly Meta Community will kick you the moment they will see scepter/staff.

Personally i hated staff a lot until i tried once frac 46 with some random pugs.. it earned my respect. Aoe daze + aegis saved our butts on Cliffside.

Shiren.9532:

EcoRI.9273:

Everything is viable in this game. People have cleared dungeons Naked solo.

These discussions always boil down to “viable” vs “optimal” and I think there is a clear intent from the OP and others that their view of the game is “optimal” (zerker nonsense), “possible” (nomad staff ele auto-attacking Spider Queen for three hours before the redesign) and “viable” (not the best DPS, not the fastest but good enough that the average player or run wouldn’t notice a dramatic different – admittedly this will be a subjective category).

Defining “viable” as “possible” is such a disingenuous way to approach the discussion because it treats every build on the same level as the absolute worst builds.

It’s so much easier to dismiss non-zerker discussions when every other play style is grouped together with a nomad staff ele in water attunement.

Basically: don’t lump me in with those bads, my Soldier’s Ele is way better than their Nomad’s Ele. Really, I promise! I’m not as bad as them! Please don’t put us together ;_;

(lol)

Shiren.9532:

EcoRI.9273:

Everything is viable in this game. People have cleared dungeons Naked solo.

These discussions always boil down to “viable” vs “optimal” and I think there is a clear intent from the OP and others that their view of the game is “optimal” (zerker nonsense), “possible” (nomad staff ele auto-attacking Spider Queen for three hours before the redesign) and “viable” (not the best DPS, not the fastest but good enough that the average player or run wouldn’t notice a dramatic different – admittedly this will be a subjective category).

Defining “viable” as “possible” is such a disingenuous way to approach the discussion because it treats every build on the same level as the absolute worst builds.

It’s so much easier to dismiss non-zerker discussions when every other play style is grouped together with a nomad staff ele in water attunement.

Very much agree. I think most people use the term viable with the idea of “will I not hate myself for doing this?” not just whether or not it’s possible.

With that in mind yes Condi Mesmer is viable if all you’re looking at is damage. If you want to play Mesmer with it’s strengths in mind, then I’d lean towards no in that you aren’t able to get the full set of utility you would likely want without significant losses in doing so.

One simply doesn’t…. bring mesmer into dungeons for its DPS.
The reason anyone would want mesmer in their group is to get some neat utility like stealth (yeah, thief is better), timewarp (yeah, guard is better) or portals (at least one thing mesmer is unmatched at). All of these are unaffected by your gear thus you can be as condi as you wish (though there’s no real point). The only thing where gear matters are reflects – another great mesmer’s utility (AFAIK reflect damage goes up with precision and ferocity).

So if you happen to know all dungeons extremely well and want to setup portals wherever you can, sure, go with your condi mesmer. Keep in mind though you’ll lose on some champ boxes. IMO this strategy only works in records runs, there’s way too much stuff that can go wrong for it to be viable for everyday casual runs. So not only I don’t recommend condi mesmer for casual runs, I don’t recommend mesmer at all.

Oh, well … So many options how to build your char but only ONE is optimal/recomended for Dungeons? What a great game … Why do we have different weapons then and different builds? Just for fun?
Anyway, thx for your replies, guys. I will stay on my Warrior for dungeons.

“optimal” => mean best way to do something.

Whatever you are doing in life, there is only ONE best way to do it.
The good part in this game, is that you can do everything with everything. So yes, you can play your condi mesmer in dungeons.

Though with a condi mesmer : You are going for speed, you’re not optimal. You are going for your fun, then you are optimal. Make your own group or join similar minded people.

when you just set this daydream portals you can run without gear, so condi rly is bad there^^

I guess to give the right answer you need to seperate dungeon-playstyles:

a) “normal meta speedrun”
trash dies like flies so noone notice you deal like no dmg to them, but this way you may dont get loot from, noome cares
bosses die 90% within 5 to 10 seconds, so honestly you deal like no dmg within this time, so
your useless for your team

b) casual “i play what i want and dont care bout mechanics or teamplay”
you may get some loot from trash here
bosses may take serval minutes, so your dps would be close to “regular” dps(but dont forget your rampup time!!!, your always behind)(also reflects aren’t that good anymore)
depending on you skill and playstyle you may benefit from some additional defence stats.
Thats your place to be!

c) solo
i’d say here, when you dont do hight projectile content, condi even may be superior, due to you deal dmg while kiting moments and usually got more clone spam at your build, so phantasms may survive longer

d) “portal run”
maybe condi even better when u wanna get boss boxes, due to you deal more dmg at hitting enemy one time before running, but when u do it for speed is dont cares^^
not doable at all dungeons and with all teams^^

Shiren.9532:

Defining “viable” as “possible” is such a disingenuous way to approach the discussion because it treats every build on the same level as the absolute worst builds.

I agree with your intend, but not that sentence. The definition of viable is ’’possible’’. That’s the actual definition of the word. People should stop using viable when in really they want to ask if their build is any good. Word have definition for a reason and their meaning evolve over time, but Viable isn’t near meaning good. Some people should stop simply saying that any build is viable and leave it at that, when they know that it wasn’t the real question. But people asking question, should also stop using the word Viable.

Sifu.9745:

Oh, well … So many options how to build your char but only ONE is optimal/recomended for Dungeons? What a great game … Why do we have different weapons then and different builds? Just for fun?
Anyway, thx for your replies, guys. I will stay on my Warrior for dungeons.

I don’t know what you want. Optimal mean the best option. By definition there will always be only one optimal solution, one optimal build. That doesn’t mean that you have one optimal build and everything else is bad. There is one optimal build, some great build, some good build, some bad build. It can be anywhere in there.

Sifu.9745:

I really enjoy so much with my condi Mesmer in PvP, WvW and open world. Only place i havent entered yet are dungeons. Not sure if i should give condi a try or not for that part?
If yes, do i use Scepter/Torch only or should i swap to Staff if mobs and bosses are not moving much?

Hi

I have played mes since launch, mostly various power based builds and switched to condi after the condi patch due to the zerker boredom. I just cant take zerker builds anymore, they make me wanna puke.

I have tried several condi variants in dungeons on mes, the powerblock / inturrapt. problem is mobs do not have enough abilities for my condi burst to be applied enough on an average, and boss fights it absolutely sucks because of the boss immunities and duration reductions.

Blind / Confusion / Torment build – extremely low DPS – both confusion and torment, unlike burns and bleeds do far reduced damage on mobs. Mobs dont use their abilities often enough for full damage and dont move around enough for torment stacks to become effective. Especially when stacking on bosses that remain stationary. Its only upside is the very frequent blinds, but there are far better group support options then that available for mesmers. Overall this is a horrible choice for dungeons.

Bleeds based pistol builds – this is out best condi option because with krait runes condi duration food you can get a large amount of stacks and unlike torment/confusion its not dependant on mob movement or ability use. But to get optimal bleed stacking you have to give up sooooooo many good traits that IMHO are what defines mesmers, you also need to run the condi damage signet thus further depleting your utility. You may skip duration signet as the rune + trait + food bonus already gives you enough. With all this, you will still far far outperform the bleed build on power based builds while retaining most utility which you cant do in the bleed builds or your DPS will fall down to the confusion/torment levels.

For comaprison, I also play a necro, and have tried out several variants on necro as well, and I can tell you even necros outperform mesmers in condi builds. But necros are still overall at bottom because mesmers have nice power based utility builds available for dungeons whereas necros do not.

Due to these reasons I have completely quit runing dungeons on both my necro and my mesmer. I run now on Engi, Guard, Ele. All 3 are burn builds and while viable, still do not keep up with the meta. I also tried out warrior and thief condi builds, but just couldnt even get into them enough to do any serious tries or testing.

So overall I just cant recommend runnign a condi mesmer in dungeons. You will not only kitten yourself extremely hard but your group quite a lot as well.

Tongku.5326:

Sifu.9745:

I really enjoy so much with my condi Mesmer in PvP, WvW and open world. Only place i havent entered yet are dungeons. Not sure if i should give condi a try or not for that part?
If yes, do i use Scepter/Torch only or should i swap to Staff if mobs and bosses are not moving much?

Hi

I have played mes since launch, mostly various power based builds and switched to condi after the condi patch due to the zerker boredom. I just cant take zerker builds anymore, they make me wanna puke.

I have tried several condi variants in dungeons on mes, the powerblock / inturrapt. problem is mobs do not have enough abilities for my condi burst to be applied enough on an average, and boss fights it absolutely sucks because of the boss immunities and duration reductions.

Blind / Confusion / Torment build – extremely low DPS – both confusion and torment, unlike burns and bleeds do far reduced damage on mobs. Mobs dont use their abilities often enough for full damage and dont move around enough for torment stacks to become effective. Especially when stacking on bosses that remain stationary. Its only upside is the very frequent blinds, but there are far better group support options then that available for mesmers. Overall this is a horrible choice for dungeons.

Bleeds based pistol builds – this is out best condi option because with krait runes condi duration food you can get a large amount of stacks and unlike torment/confusion its not dependant on mob movement or ability use. But to get optimal bleed stacking you have to give up sooooooo many good traits that IMHO are what defines mesmers, you also need to run the condi damage signet thus further depleting your utility. You may skip duration signet as the rune + trait + food bonus already gives you enough. With all this, you will still far far outperform the bleed build on power based builds while retaining most utility which you cant do in the bleed builds or your DPS will fall down to the confusion/torment levels.

For comaprison, I also play a necro, and have tried out several variants on necro as well, and I can tell you even necros outperform mesmers in condi builds. But necros are still overall at bottom because mesmers have nice power based utility builds available for dungeons whereas necros do not.

Due to these reasons I have completely quit runing dungeons on both my necro and my mesmer. I run now on Engi, Guard, Ele. All 3 are burn builds and while viable, still do not keep up with the meta. I also tried out warrior and thief condi builds, but just couldnt even get into them enough to do any serious tries or testing.

So overall I just cant recommend runnign a condi mesmer in dungeons. You will not only kitten yourself extremely hard but your group quite a lot as well.

Condi Engi is great and Condi Guard is fine with respect to the so-called Meta builds, actually. But yes, Mesmer Condi DPS is pretty subpar at the time of this post.

Some bosses don’t give a kitten about Condi. So make sure to swap to Power build when and where it happens.

Alphard, Crystalline Entity, Subject Alpha, both end bosses of Underground Facility fractals.

IrisTheCasual.3742:

Some bosses don’t give a kitten about Condi. So make sure to swap to Power build when and where it happens.

Alphard, Crystalline Entity, Subject Alpha, both end bosses of Underground Facility fractals.

I’ve always found this to be such a random immunity. “Let’s make this guy immune to condis because, why not?”

Every time I take my engi to pug CoE, I always end up raging so hard at Subject Alpha.

condi Mesmer runs into some problems in dungeons.

if you are clearing trash mobs you will feel as powerful as you do in open roaming. not much difference here.

for bosses and stacks, ive noticed that the token confusion and torment just don’t kick out enough damage, for two reasons. most bosses don’t move around much (torment suffers) and most stacks aim to keep the boss from using skills (confusion suffers). If you are part of an efficient group that knows how to use ice bow freeze, your conditions will barely have an impact before the boss goes down.

if you are set on using condi in dungeons, keep scepter / torch for a blast finisher and to stack confusion quickly. the more you have the better, of course. for your other set keep a sword / focus handy so you can contribute to DPS and keep yourself from getting blasted in a tight stack. using or traiting for additional reflects will help your dps, exponentially in some fights.

I tried this for about a week or two in regular dungeon runs, and found I simply did more damage with a ferocity stacking finesse build.

For reference, when I was condi-focused I used zerk armor and sinister trinkets.

To get the most out of your condi damage, I recommend using greatsword as a second weapon traited with the might stacking. dodge a couple clones out quick with GS out, swap to your condi set, and use Aristocracy Runes. The token clones will spatial surge and stack your might, and your limited conditions will pack more of a punch.

So… lots of hate for condi Mesmer on here.

I have one of every class, save guardian and engineer at 80 and geared with a mix of exotic and ascended. My Mesmer is the closest to fully ascended.

I use scepter/torch switching staff, Sinister gear, with Rabid weapons and trinkets. runes of tormenting and sigils of torment and bursting.

I do great DPS. and yes, torment is lacking, unless your group is willing to play content and not stack content. Confuse is awesome, especially since June 23rd.

people saying “Your going to make other players lives hell.” Are just wrong. All your shatters are AOE, (at lest the torment and confuse part) and one of the four players using skill and playing well, while they stack and whack generally fails to fail.

I play dungeons, fractals, SpvP, and WvW (tho less of that)

I even keep a set of ‘Zerk gear in my inventory, so that those ridiculous “link gear on join” groups will put a sock in it. I’ve never been kicked from a run for not doing enough damage…. or dying to much, because I play with skill, and if you do to, I’m sure you wont have any problems.

Now I have been kicked before the run started, usually with haters saying “l2p noob, lols” but hey… I wanna clear the dungeon fast, too, and my build may add say…. 10sec to the total clear time… but know what? I don’t care the ’Zerk only always ever meta, is ruining this game so I fight back in my own way… most recently by telling them so on the forums.

So let that tormenting, confusing, bleeding, and occasionally burning Mesmer flag fly. (over the lackluster corpses of ’zerkers)

one legged interrupt mesmer can clear dungeons for sure…..

BrokenGlass.9356:

I do great DPS. and yes, torment is lacking, unless your group is willing to play content and not stack content. Confuse is awesome, especially since June 23rd.

I’m sorry, but this is simply not the case. You can play whatever you want as long as it makes you feel happy, but please don’t delude yourself (and maybe others) into a notion that you’re doing “great” DPS.
Great DPS would be Staff Elementalist, Condi Engineer. As long as you are aware of exactly how much you are giving up in favour of your personal enjoyment, please be free to enjoy the game however you like.
But oftentimes along with posts like these comes a notion of “I only do slightly/a bit/not all that much less/worse dps than the leaders of the meta..”. No. Just no.

Another thing posts like these seem to imply is that we are still in the early 2014 meta of stacking in a corner and burning bosses down with FGS? Its been a year now. Ever since the nerf it has been way more time efficient to fight bosses exactly where they spawn..

Condi mesmer is just not worth using in dungeons. There is maybe one or two boss fights where i would switch to it and that just does not justify getting the gear.

If you desperately want to play condi mesmer, go to wvw and troll inexperienced people there with a PU condi build.

What about condi Warrior: any better?

Sifu.9745:

What about condi Warrior: any better?

It’s better that condi Mesmer that’s for sure. It’s decent in solo situation, but lack a bit in group content. It just can’t really compete with PS Warrior which have both good (not great) damage and excellent group buffing. One of the main problem with condition warrior these days is that it’s mostly based around bleeding and that’s a condition that is lacking behind burning by a far margin.

A lot of people would like Anet to nerf burn and buff bleed by like 10-15%. That would probably make condi Warrior good. When it come to condition Ranger, Engineer and Guardian are the best at it right now. Other than those and you have decent to ordinary performance.