The “Kick From Party” option is useful most of the time. I often use it myself for situations such as: “I have a LFG listed for 80s only but then a level 20 joins” or “Someone logs off half-way through a dungeon so we boot him” but lately I’ve been seeing a lot of people using the kick from party option in abusive ways.
Examples:
Players being kicked half-way through a dungeon “despite how effective they are” because someone noticed they weren’t playing a meta build
Players being kicked half-way through a dungeon so someone’s friend can join the party and get credit after the person who was kicked, worked for it
Players being kicked half-way through a dungeon for no other reason than to waste someone’s time
The above examples can adequately be described as: Elitism, Favoritism and Trolling.
An effective and well mannered party member should never have their time wasted due to the above reasons.
My suggestion: The “Objection” Option
If two players have elected someone to be kicked, the player being kicked should receive a 10 second window to select an “Objection” option before actually being kicked out of the party.
If the player does not select “Objection”, they will be kicked after 10 seconds
(this easily eliminates AFK or offline players).
If the player does select “Objection”, the process to kick that player would then require every party member to agree on the kick, rather than just two of them.
This idea needs to be considered and taken seriously as it turns a brash party kicking system, in to a lawful one.
Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”
There is some abuse with the kick option in groups.
There also is the possibility to report this abuse, resulting in bans in case of being seen so by a GM.
I think that works as intended, we do not need a vote on a vote, this is not Pimp my Ride.
How do you want to report? You don’t know who kicked you aswell group chat gets deleted after kick.
Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”
1. make it 3/4 votes required for kicking. (easily done)
2. make dungeon runs’ rewards more evenly distributed throughout the run than the current “finish teh boss or you get nothing” paradigm. (lolhard).
There is some abuse with the kick option in groups.
There also is the possibility to report this abuse, resulting in bans in case of being seen so by a GM.
I think that works as intended, we do not need a vote on a vote, this is not Pimp my Ride.
You’re right, it isn’t Pimp My Ride, it’s Guild Wars 2
and the thread is about abuse with the current party kicking system, not cars
I think the idea is overly complicated and would still be abusable – you can’t stop that with mechanics
it would be more productive if they made a few simpler changes which hopefully wouldn’t be quite as complicated to implement:
party chat never disappears – if you were able to read it once, there’s no reason to delete it afterwards. if you leave the dungeon and then get kicked the text doesn’t disappear either
system message (yellow text) of who initiated the kick
system message of who approved the kick
reporting option directly on these messages.
ideally we would also have some form of reputation system, to see if we should be wary of some groups, but that would take a lot more changes.
I think this idea is still susceptible to foul play though. Trolls will of course object to being kicked and having 2 or more in a party would mean you’re forced to keep them on board.
I don’t know that there is a solution that will work in every situation. Personally, if my group does need to find a PUG to fill a spot, we make sure to specify what we need up front. The time to ask them to leave or kick them is at the beginning. If we’re into the instance though, it’s just poor form to kick someone. Unless they are an intentional troll of course.
Two trolls are already OP, but currently just on the kicker-side, rather than the kickee side.
This would just balance the field.
Your definition of balance is flawed. In reality, what this would do is just give ‘trolls’ double the power the already have, as they would be able to screw parties by kicking and by denying kicks.
The most efficient solution that could be made without adding new bugs to the party system would be making it so that a vote kick requires three people to kick somebody from a 5man and 4man group, and two people to kick someone from a 3man group.
Additionally they could make it so that the instance host is not kick-able, as no one in their right mind would kick the owner.
I think the idea is overly complicated and would still be abusable – you can’t stop that with mechanics
it would be more productive if they made a few simpler changes which hopefully wouldn’t be quite as complicated to implement:
party chat never disappears – if you were able to read it once, there’s no reason to delete it afterwards. if you leave the dungeon and then get kicked the text doesn’t disappear either
system message (yellow text) of who initiated the kick
system message of who approved the kick
reporting option directly on these messages.
ideally we would also have some form of reputation system, to see if we should be wary of some groups, but that would take a lot more changes.
This is a good idea actually
I’m noticing too many people using the worst case scenario example of “we have a troll in the party” and are completely overlooking the more usual circumstances of why a player gets kicked, which is usually because of elitism and/or favoritism to open a spot for a guildie.
You’re also neglecting to see that “the troll in the party” isn’t always the guy who is getting kicked. It is more often the person who is doing the kicking.
Look:
There are 5 players in a party.
This means that 3/5 players would be considered the majority of the party
It also means that 2/5 players would be considered the minority of the party
It should require at least 3 people to vote kick, which would be a fair majority vote.
The 2 man kick system is based on minority opinion
It often results in unfair treatment
It is being abused but theres no perfect way to prevent it. I was just in a SE story mode where the host tried to kick everyone at the end so i vote kicked him and destroyed the instance. There was no way to salvage that situation as some idiot accepted the first 2 vote kicks and then got a vote kick above his name aswell.
Your system would definately help but theres the possibility of the people that the group wants to kick are griefers or genuine trolls, they could easily avoid being kicked with this system. A 3 vote kick system would be safer but again it has issues.
The idea was intended to help eliminate unfair judgment based on Elitism, Favoritism and Trolling.
I would only be against favoritism and plain griefing, but I wouldn’t call elitism unfair. If someone puts an advertisement looking for experienced players with zerk/scholar gear and meta builds, then no one who doesn’t fill the requirements should join.
I do think 3 votes for kick is definitely more fair. Two friends who simply dislike someone can kick a person because of an argument or disagreement.
I have been playing another game, 5 vs 5 pvp or AI (mostly for training) and there’s no kick system. And the players are randomly grouped together unless you make your own party. No kicking system in place so in almost every match so far, there’s been afk-ers during the entire match (and still get the xp), disconnectors, and such. Now I really appreciate the kick from party option.
I joined a LFG CoF P2 group on my zerker warrior and it was a group of FA players. We got to the lava and the thief targets me and I’m kicked. I never died, although somehow the necro managed to, the run wasn’t the fastest but whatever it’s a pug and I didn’t care that they were slow.
I hate that you lose chat logs when the group is over because I would’ve set the world record for cursing. I reported the thief and the group for what I can only assume was kicking me to let another player from their guild in. Then I see the thief in LFG so I ask what the kick was about, and he said they kicked the group for taking too much time doing the dungeon… Which since he kicked the group he had to do over! And then he blocked me from chat. No one went afk and the run was smooth. If you join a LFG dungeon your only option should be to leave a bad group there is zero reason to have a kick function if the player is not AFK.
The internet allows weak people to do things that IRL I’d break them in half for.
Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 2012-2015 – RIP Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random PugLife SoloQ
Kicking requires only 2 which is stupid. Dungeons in this game are a joke anyways and players in PVT kicking actual players is enough to make me not use the LFG tool. After that I ran COF 1&2 with my guild without drama.
If you want an empty que keep letting morons kick without oversight
Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 2012-2015 – RIP Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random PugLife SoloQ
I maybe biased or clueless since random kicking never happened to me but I have been reading it for quite sometime now, but did you guys think for a second why they kicked you? Maybe wrong gear? Bad play?
I have kicked tons of guys just for satisfying the 2 conditions above.
But for the sake of topic, I agree with Oranisagu.3706 on 1 point:
party chat never disappears – if you were able to read it once, there’s no reason to delete it afterwards. if you leave the dungeon and then get kicked the text doesn’t disappear either
There’s no need to implement a complicated system – just the above I think would do fine.
I maybe biased or clueless since random kicking never happened to me but I have been reading it for quite sometime now, but did you guys think for a second why they kicked you? Maybe wrong gear? Bad play?
I have kicked tons of guys just for satisfying the 2 conditions above.
But for the sake of topic, I agree with Oranisagu.3706 on 1 point:
party chat never disappears – if you were able to read it once, there’s no reason to delete it afterwards. if you leave the dungeon and then get kicked the text doesn’t disappear either
There’s no need to implement a complicated system – just the above I think would do fine.
In my case this is the first kick ever. My warrior is full berserker ascended and exotic running meta build and using a banner and melee. I dodged, never went into downstate. This was one of two things, either they let us clear trash until the end to let in someone else, or they were mental and decided to ruin the run.
Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 2012-2015 – RIP Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random PugLife SoloQ
one of the dangers of PUGging is that you will frequently run into human trash who will kick you and grief you for little reason, and that you won’t be able to do anything about it because of the amazing party/LFG system.
sure, increasing kicks needed in full party to 3 can perhaps help to alleviate the problem somewhat, but that won’t matter in parties where you’re a PUG and there’s a whole guild group against you.
another thing that would be nice would be for people on your blocklist to be unable to merge/join parties with you, so that that guy can’t grief everyone… or just remove that dumb merge feature.
The first thing that should be done is that the party chat should not be erased when u get kicked, so the report of the abuse can be done easily
As if reporting does anything. The Arah party merge griefer is still around after how many reports?
Best supporting point made yet, thank you
(A) Party chat needs to remain in the text window if you’re kicked so that we can report. (even though I know a-net must have did that so that we couldn’t send so many reports. 2+2=4)
(B) The kick system needs move from 2 votes, to 3 (which is the majority vote in a party and makes perfect sense)
Yes plz leave the party chat after leaving party. I just got trolled by 2 players who were for some reason kitten that i asked for a tighter stak in the beginning of the dungeon. They decided to let me help them all the way to the end then kik me before i could get reward. Very annoyed right now :[
Agree with a few above post – including not deleting party chat, and game messages indicating players involved, with the option of reporting them right there.
Still in agreement, I prefer one of two actions, on top of the above:
1. 3 votes to kick, and party members (even persons not being kicked) can object to the kick. I’ve seen some people get votekicked I thought was wrong. Generally I open zones, so if I see turds join my group and votekick someone, I close the zone.
2. Standard group leader/instance opener controls. They get to kick.
doesn’t really matter as I have tried reporting before as I did path 2 CoF got all the way to the end killed final boss and then was kicked before I even got the loot for the dungeon including the dungeon tokens and I put a ticket in and got told there wasn’t anything that they could do either for the tokens or about the grp that had kicked me as its not there responsibility to make sure I was in a good grp. so reporting is useless.
That is exactly why player kicking should be left up to a majority vote
Another problem is that when a kick is promoted by one player, there is almost always someone in the party that just seconds the kick without thinking because they assume someone knows what they are doing by voting to kick that player. This essentially means that it only takes one jerk, to randomly kick players from a party.
Dead serious, I should fraps a youtube video that shows how easy it is to random kick people for absolutely no reason and I probably wouldn’t even get reported for it as no one will be able to see what my name was once they leave the dungeon and if I did get reported, would anything even be done about it?
This is happening very frequently as of late
Please change voting to 3 people decision making
Last night I witnessed two more situations where people get in to arguments and then start vote kicking each other. Both times, the instance owner was selected and kicked, ruining the time spent for everyone in the party.
It happens again today, in Ascalon Catacombs. The party is running a record time dungeon run, nothing is wrong. Then the instance owners says: “I hate NPCs” because Hodgins bugs up and won’t open the door for the 2nd scepter in P1. I then make a joke and say “Ever feel like the people you work with are NPCs?” He kicks me out of the party.
I reported him in-game but it did not ask me for screen shots so I thought I’d post them here. Is there a more appropriate place for a thorough report?
This player’s account is: allpowerfullone.8462
Seriously, the GMs need to read how abusive this is as it is a perfect example of what is wrong with the party kicking system. He prompts a kick and then someone seconds it for no reason and pay attention to how disrespectful this player is. More proof that it is more often the kicker, that should be kicked. Not the kickee.
Can I get some kitten justice on this for once? Or is a-net ok with this type of behavior?
Look how confident this guy is that arena-net will not do anything to him.
… nothing is wrong. Then the instance owners says: “I hate NPCs” because Hodgins bugs up and won’t open the door for the 2nd scepter in P1. I then make a joke and say “Ever feel like the people you work with are NPCs?” He kicks me out of the party
so something goes wrong, some players in party get frustrated over it. then you crack a joke which gets taken personally. they get offended and kick you
did they overreact? yes
was your joke innocent? no
could you expect that reaction? yes
in my opinion you are both responsible. the other person for verbal abuse, and you for pushing him/her over the edge
may i crack some joke too?
“mommy, that boy punched me in the face, after i pushed him off the swing” is how i see some rants on these forums
Make it so the entire team doesn’t get kicked if the instance owner leaves. There shouldn’t be an owner for dungeon instances to begin with. In Personal story instances it makes sense but not dungeons and fractals.
Also, make it so you need 4 votes to kick someone.
… nothing is wrong. Then the instance owners says: “I hate NPCs” because Hodgins bugs up and won’t open the door for the 2nd scepter in P1. I then make a joke and say “Ever feel like the people you work with are NPCs?” He kicks me out of the party
so something goes wrong, some players in party get frustrated over it. then you crack a joke which gets taken personally. they get offended and kick you
did they overreact? yes
was your joke innocent? no
could you expect that reaction? yes
in my opinion you are both responsible. the other person for verbal abuse, and you for pushing him/her over the edge
may i crack some joke too?
“mommy, that boy punched me in the face, after i pushed him off the swing” is how i see some rants on these forums
Somehow I don’t believe that you read the example closely enough
Or the initial post in this thread, which details the subject at hand
Last post I’ll make in this and then I’ll let it die
Today I’m running through CM p3 with a group that was listed as “CM p3 80s”.
A bunch of people join around 4k, 5k APs and then one guy joins with 12k APs.
Even though everyone is playing effectively and completing the dungeon well on time, the exact same way that I’ve always seen it done, he insists on pointing out every small thing that everyone is doing wrong. This small commentary eventually turns in to insults and then causes disfunction within the group because he wants to do everything his way, not the way that everyone else is doing it. He eventually targets me “the instance owner and the guide through this run”. He’s getting more and more frustrated and then I realize that, this bozo is going to start vote kicking people if I don’t kick him first.
" Here is the point of this last post "
The current kicking system is too explosive. Any time someone stirs things up like this, everyone wants to start kicking each other before other people kick them first.
The current kicking system actually encourages kicking each other out of the party due to this problem, out of self-defense. This is just not cohesive for a good gaming community.
It won’t die, someone else will just make a new post tomorrow about it. And we’ll have nothing to tell them besides “They’ve been looking into it. For a year. And the guy who was looking into it got laid off.” disappointed sigh
Trevor, so am I to understand that calling other players in the team or referring to them as “NPC’s” is conducive to a quality gaming community? Your response was it was just a ‘joke’, however; it was quite apparent that not many people in the team thought it was funny. You lead by example in life Trevor, and you should not nor are an exception to the rule.
And yes Trevor, I did take it personal and was offended by what you said. If i had/have a chance, i’d kick you again. I repeat, show respect in the dungeon- just because you think a comment is funny may not be to other people. This is exactly why the vote kick is in place- for people like you.
