Guild Wars 2

This is a typical problem for me. I’ve been kicked twice today from dungeons because I did not use a ranged weapon and made things more difficult for the group entirely.

or in one player’s words “U R MAKING THIS HARD THAN IT HAS TO BE.!”

First off, I’m a level 80 Guardian. Guardian is the only class I’ve played. I’ve been playing since BWE2. I have all of my Guardian’s skills unlocked, %100 world completion, Dungeon Master title, and I’m rank 20 in sPvP—among many other things that aren’t exactly worth noting; and granted any of the things I’ve stated probably aren’t.

With that said, I think when I speak about my profession, I know what I’m talking about—and with that said (again), I stand by my theory that there is hardly (if pressed, I’d add almost)anything in this game I can’t hit with a Greatsword and survive—being no burden on my team’s constant awareness of who’s incapacitated at the time.

and it doesn’t take a level 80 Guardian to admit that their ranged weapons, the Scepter and Staff, are not the best tools in the game. I wield a Greatsword accompanied by a Mace and Shield, specing directly into a complete set of gear focusing on Power, Vit. , and Toughness. Why I choose these stats and weapons specfically is another discussion for another time, but I’ve been kicked twice today because I was not using ranged.

before the battle was even under-way and minutes in, with my re-assurance to the ranting player(s) that “I promise, it’ll be OK.” and a brief explanation that “The Guardian’s ranged weapons aren’t exactly necessary for the situation at hand”, I am presented with the cold fact that I’ve been kicked out of the party followed by a whisper of “learn to play, [insert vulgar]”—loosing all the progress I’ve made in the dungeon. Sometimes these rants are accompanied with the argument that a holy trinity still exists in this game—which I do not believe—but, again, that’s another discussion.

tl;dr Kicked out of groups for the way I play (i.e. no ranged weapons)—annoyed and letting off steam, I suppose. Happened to any of you?

You still need a ranged weapon, btw. Even if it’s only in your backpack to swap in for certain fights.

You need a ranged weapon period. I’m amazed that you managed to get a dungeon master title without it. How do you kill Lupicus without a ranged weapon for example? If it were my team, I would have totally kicked you too, no offence.

Depends on the dungeon and the boss. I would definitively kick you if you would try to fight Lupi in melee during phase 1.

but when? What enemies shut down melee players that don’t stand in a single spot and press 1, taking a wave of punishment until their downed?

So bring a scepter next time? It sounds like you are just being awkward for no reason.

I swap weapons from my inventory probably at least 3x every dungeon on my guardian because it’s best to use certain weapons on various fights. Bosses like giganticus for example just cannot be done at close range properly.

To answer Lupicus,

I have both hit him, and been on what I call “Grub Duty”.

Grub Duty being mainly for pick-up groups, as where I will nuke grubs down fast before Lupi. can consume them—with the rest of my party ranged, far back.

With a more organized group, we’ve managed to have two or three melee on Lupi. His first phase 1 isn’t rough at all if you manage the grubs off of each other.

Best keep a ranged weapon in your bag next time. I usually keep scepter, focus, staff, GS, shield, and hammer on me or in my bags at all times. Plus you ran into either a bad pug or a crappy group of elitists(unless you were running arah i can understand why) also you could have reported him/them for the vulgar language part. That shouldn’t belong here.

Shuguard.7125:

you could have reported him/them for the vulgar language part. That shouldn’t belong here.

Don’t worry.
I did.

almostdaft.4319:

To answer Lupicus,

I have both hit him, and been on what I call “Grub Duty”.

Grub Duty being mainly for pick-up groups, as where I will nuke grubs down fast before Lupi. can consume them—with the rest of my party ranged, far back.

With a more organized group, we’ve managed to have two or three melee on Lupi. His first phase 1 isn’t rough at all if you manage the grubs off of each other.

I know you can do Lupi with melees, but if you do so you have a very low margin of error. And that’s the reason why, at least in my group, each char has to use a ranged weapon during phase 1.

almostdaft.4319:

Shuguard.7125:

you could have reported him/them for the vulgar language part. That shouldn’t belong here.

Don’t worry.
I did.

I tip my hat to you sir, best luck next time(just a group or stroke of bad luck).

Lupicus, both dredge fractal bosses, HotW butcher path last boss, CM’s asura and seraph path last bosses, and all TA tree bosses, those I personally find really annoying for melee.

However if melee does his job okay without deaths, I see no reason to kick.

What explo mode is this? If this is the spider TA part, I would also vote to kick you.

If you refused to co-operate with the group strategy, I would also kick you. Refusing to use a ranged weapon is also refusing to support the team formation, which could screw up the group.

Using a melee weapon on the dredge fractal boss for example is pretty silly in my opinion, for example.

There’s nothing wrong with melee itself (some builds even utilize pure melee such as Mace+Shield and shouts “Warrior Ball”), but there’s nothing worse than someone refusing to co-operate with their team.

Also, ranged guardian isn’t THAT bad considering it puts you in the right position for reflections and such. Just focus on how to compliment the team rather than your own damage.

Kain Francois.4328:

If you refused to co-operate with the group strategy, I would also kick you. Refusing to use a ranged weapon is also refusing to support the team formation, which could screw up the group.

Using a melee weapon in the dredge fractal is pretty silly in my opinion, for example.

There’s nothing wrong with melee itself (some builds even utilize pure melee such as Mace+Shield and shouts “Warrior Ball”), but there’s nothing worse than someone refusing to co-operate with their team.

or being adamant about his build/playstyle. Ofc it could go both ways.

I actually have grown really fond of scepter/focus combo on the guardian, the damage isn’t shabby, the control and survival boost is nice, and the immobilise helps other melees, especially warriors with their 100b.
Refusing to slot a ranged weapon might not be ‘noobish’, but could be rude and make others nervous a bit.

Any dungeoning character needs to be flexible. If your build can’t be flexible then maybe you should dungeon with another character?

I wanted to able to do it all with my main but I’ve increasingly come to realize that that’s not the case and increasingly one character is for WvW, one is for PvE and one for Dungeon crawling and farming and as soon as I let go of that idea that I needed to make my favorite able to do every thing, suddenly I was able to create specialized characters that are good at what they’re for.

TabMorte.5297:

Any dungeoning character needs to be flexible. If your build can’t be flexible then maybe you should dungeon with another character?

I’m yet to see a build that’s not flexible enough to pick up a ranged weapon and spam auto-attack with it.

nachtnebel.9168:

Depends on the dungeon and the boss. I would definitively kick you if you would try to fight Lupi in melee during phase 1.

How definitely more bad you can be?
Dodge infection. Dodge his melee attack.
When I duo path three I mostly melee on phase 1 and 3.

I am a level 80 guardian as well and when I made my “permanent” weapon choices, I picked 1. Great sword, 2. Hammer and 3. Staff. I never run a dungeon without having the staff equipped as a secondary weapon.

There are just too many situations were melee is 1. impractical, 2. inefficient, 3. against the group strategy. Guardians are a melee class and should be in melee but not having ranged is inexcusable in dungeons.

Edit:
I am not disputing that their are uber Guardians who can melee 100% of the time and maybe the OP is one of those uber Guardians. But if you team asks you to go range and you refuse, thus go against team strategy, your team is under no obligation to stick with you.

Sina.9208:

TabMorte.5297:

Any dungeoning character needs to be flexible. If your build can’t be flexible then maybe you should dungeon with another character?

I’m yet to see a build that’s not flexible enough to pick up a ranged weapon and spam auto-attack with it.

Neither have I. But I’ve met many players who refuse to change from their favorite weapons because they claim it’ll kitten up their builds.

Having ranged capability is a matter of versatility, and imo it’s a pretty basic one that can be achieved by all classes. You should invest in one for the future. Lesson learnt.

Regardless of how good you are or think you are… dungeons are a team effort. If the group had determined a specific strategy and you didnt go along with it… yeah you should probably expect a hard time. You basically told the rest of your group they were wrong and you are doing things your way.
I probably would have voted to kick you too and I say that as a lvl 80 guardian

There is not really many encounters where melee would hinder the group.

Though I guess OP must tell us the situation.

Wethospu.6437:

nachtnebel.9168:

Depends on the dungeon and the boss. I would definitively kick you if you would try to fight Lupi in melee during phase 1.

How definitely more bad you can be?
Dodge infection. Dodge his melee attack.
When I duo path three I mostly melee on phase 1 and 3.

Hey, if you can burst down each grub he spawns out of you and instantly kill it or if you pay enough attention to run back each time you get the debuff I’m fine with you beeing in meele. But if you only miss one you better switch to a ranged weapon leave my group.

This is not about being bad, if you want to be a member of a party your own opinion is not worth more than that of the others. So, if 4 players in your party want you to use a ranged weapon you use a ranged weapon.

Limiting yourself to not having the option of a ranged weapon isn’t generally a good idea. While it is a very poor weapon compared to your melee options, your Scepter is sometimes a better choice on the higher difficulties (20+)

That being said though, your group was foolish for kicking you. Guardians are incredibly useful in Fractals (invaluable at higher levels), with their ability to provide support even as a damage-oriented build.

i can see both sides of the story. both sides as in: (1) don’t need ranged / ranged not good enough and (2) ranged is always good to have as backup for specific situations.

definitely don’t condone you being kicked, and especially not the name-calling or swearing.

that being said, i personally think that it’s great that you’re so confident in your skills as a Guardian and being up close and personal. that’s how i play my Guardian with a hammer / GS as well. but i usually have a staff / scepter as back-up. in fact, i carry all weapons in my inv just in case. you never know. : )))

i was running AC once and while hammering away, giving everyone protection and retaliation, and symbols specced for healing… not that retal is THAT great in PvE.. i was met with a “STOP DROPPING LIGHT FIELDS”. and at that point, i switched to a GS and didn’t use #4. cause they wanted non-stop might stacks. although, i gave them up to 12 stacks at any given time.. still, i’d just sacrificed a little and have the rest of the run be whine free and better for the dynamics.

not saying what you did was wrong, but if they were giving you crap for not using ranged for a long time, then i’d say be the bigger man, switch to scepter, or even tome or wrath, whatever just to pu ton a show. YOU know YOURSELF that you can do melee. and you don’t have to prove it to these.. sour grape players don’t and won’t care to understand other classes or the game’s innate mechanics. so you wouldn’t have had to sacrifice your progress. though, still, kudos to you. and glad you reported them. i disdain that type of behaviour, kicking, name calling, and generally being self-entitled and blaming others for their own short comings.

hope they have to face the right consequences.

As a player who also plays a Guardian for my main, I can definitely sympathize. I’ve tried out all of the classes, and I can definitively say that the Guardian is pretty much boned on having an option for ranged. The scepter is pretty crappy skills-wise, and the staff has miserable range and an AOE (and therefore weak) primary attack, though its support skills are useful in many dungeon-running circumstances.

Any group that recruits a guardian should know right off the bat that the class is pretty much exclusively either melee or support. If anyone kicks a guardian mid-dungeon for not using ranged, they are the ones who need to learn the game.

That said, I don’t really go into dungeons without my staff on secondary, so I suppose if it ever became a problem for me I could just switch to staff and pretend like that was an effective way of DPSing from range.

Using a scepter for certain fights doesn’t force a Guardian into the support role also the scepter is not pretty crappy skillwise, it has all you need in most fights, a single target attack, a small ae attack as well as an option to immobilze your target and to abbly vulnerability. That’s not pretty crappy.

You are a dungeon master / ranked 20 in Spvp (I don’t know much about PvP though), and you don’t have a static group?

If your that good can’t you just make your own group? I am NOWHERE near as good as most dungeon masters (lupi Shadowbolt thingy gives me a hard time), and I can easily form groups on my own. Those players might have just been jerks. Your bound to run into them someday.

if you’re in MY group, you play how I want you to play. I don’t care how long you spent building your character or how many achievements you have under your belt. If you don’t play how I want you to play, I’ll just go find someone who will. That’s just how I run my parties, and generally when I’m acting like Genghis Khan, I get kitten done.

as long as u dont die i dont care what u do. Though i prefer guardians melee with a hammer (for the protection field)

Dead.7385:

You are a dungeon master / ranked 20 in Spvp (I don’t know much about PvP though), and you don’t have a static group?

If your that good can’t you just make your own group? I am NOWHERE near as good as most dungeon masters (lupi gives me a hard time), and I can easily form groups on my own. Those players might have just been jerks. Your bound to run into them someday.

The problem with this is that due to the way the kick system works, a player can form a group and get kicked from it by two trolls. All it takes is a vote-caller and a second. This would be easily addressed by switching the game’s teaming system to the more standard “party leader” model, but that’s unlikely.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

if you’re in MY group, you play how I want you to play. I don’t care how long you spent building your character or how many achievements you have under your belt. If you don’t play how I want you to play, I’ll just go find someone who will. That’s just how I run my parties, and generally when I’m acting like Genghis Khan, I get kitten done.

Good luck with this in FotM.

Blueshield.6291:

The problem with this is that due to the way the kick system works, a player can form a group and get kicked from it by two trolls. All it takes is a vote-caller and a second. This would be easily addressed by switching the game’s teaming system to the more standard “party leader” model, but that’s unlikely.

But if you kick the leader who started the instance won’t it punt everyone? I heard something about that before. I might be wrong though. I mostly run with a static group so I don’t run into this issue and most pugs I have grouped with haven’t had this issue.

Dead.7385:

Blueshield.6291:

The problem with this is that due to the way the kick system works, a player can form a group and get kicked from it by two trolls. All it takes is a vote-caller and a second. This would be easily addressed by switching the game’s teaming system to the more standard “party leader” model, but that’s unlikely.

But if you kick the leader who started the instance won’t it punt everyone? I heard something about that before. I might be wrong though. I mostly run with a static group so I don’t run into this issue and most pugs I have grouped with haven’t had this issue.

I’m not 100% sure on what happens if you kick the instance owner out of the group. I can verify that the instance owner can disconnect and reconnect without it closing the instance, however, so I suspect that it wouldn’t be a problem (except for the guy who got kicked). Besides, you can’t reliably ensure that the de facto team leader owns the instance every time, since it just goes off of whomever enters the dungeon first. On some PUGs, I’ve had the last guy to join the group bum-rush the door and become the instance owner.

Thanks for the replies and, to some, sympathy.

Let me clarify myself; I use melee strictly as not only do I prefer it, but I find that I—as the player I am—am more useful in a position I’m comfortable with and, by far, much more efficient at DPSing a foe down based on me, as a player, that developed my character to excel in what he does.

For those saying that I’m not cooperating with the group strategy—I’ve never had a whole group turn evil on me for my choice—even when I reassure that all will be fine because it always has been. Like some have stated, it’s been about two people who are conditioned to believe that the way they are seeing things is correct.

I do not believe I’m holding the team back or going against a team strategy that was never set-in-stone in the first place. I’ve never flat out said " lol i’m not using range ", I’ve always stated something like, (and sometimes before we begin the dungeon) " I do not use ranged weapons—I believe I do better, and I have, with what equipment and mind-set I have. "

It boggles me where people where conditioned to the point where [X] Trinity needs to be followed, all players must have ranged weapons, and all players must [X]. This game doesn’t bound us to these pointless self-assumed requirements.

For those who keep saying that they would kick me for going melee on [insert Boss];
well, I did go melee against [insert Boss]. and I won with [little] failure.

Ran fractals with 3 guild members and a random earlier. The random player had some strategies and methods of his own that were sometimes different than ours. Which is fine, if it works for them great, but when we asked him to do something the rest of us were doing already, he obliged. Things went swell.

Just because you can, does not mean you should. If the party as a whole requires you to use a ranged weapon, then you should use a ranged weapon or find a different party that doesn’t mind.

While the nerd-raging they directed at you is a bit much, your overconfidence in your own abilities is no better. As versed a player as you say you are, I am surprised that you would not have at least every weapon combo available for your profession, especially for pug runs.

almostdaft.4319:

Thanks for the replies and, to some, sympathy.

Let me clarify myself; I use melee strictly as not only do I prefer it, but I find that I—as the player I am—am more useful in a position I’m comfortable with and, by far, much more efficient at DPSing a foe down based on me, as a player, that developed my character to excel in what he does.

For those saying that I’m not cooperating with the group strategy—I’ve never had a whole group turn evil on me for my choice—even when I reassure that all will be fine because it always has been. Like some have stated, it’s been about two people who are conditioned to believe that the way they are seeing things is correct.

I do not believe I’m holding the team back or going against a team strategy that was never set-in-stone in the first place. I’ve never flat out said " lol i’m not using range ", I’ve always stated something like, (and sometimes before we begin the dungeon) " I do not use ranged weapons—I believe I do better, and I have, with what equipment and mind-set I have. "

It boggles me where people where conditioned to the point where [X] Trinity needs to be followed, all players must have ranged weapons, and all players must [X]. This game doesn’t bound us to these pointless self-assumed requirements.

For those who keep saying that they would kick me for going melee on [insert Boss];
well, I did go melee against [insert Boss]. and I won with [little] failure.

You just want to do it your way then. Maybe it is inline with ANet philosophy? Perhaps I don’t know. What I can tell you is that your (as in gamers in general) playstyle should be the one who conform to dungeons and not the dungeons conform to your playstyle.

Let me just be clear. I play a Guardian who runs most dungeons except for Arah. Guardian’s melee is indeed imo superior to range options. But it doesnt mean ranged is obselete.

Let me choose TA as an example. If you have successfully completed the TA Fwd/Up (Spiders) and TA Up (Turrets), please share your strategy on how you managed to avoid aggroing additional spiders / hit the boss in the middle of a turret field. Up to now, melee chars who insist on meleeing do not contribute to damaging these 2 bosses in all of my runs.

Its quit easy.

If you can do an encounter Melee and not once go into downed mode and support your team. They are wrong.

If you go melee and die all the time or go downed all the time and not support your team, you are wrong.

I have seen many guardians and the most horrible ones have been those that used GS only and refused to do anything else. I do not kick them from a group but I make sure to never play with them ever again when I encounter stupid players that refuse to adapt to the situation.

nachtnebel.9168:

Hey, if you can burst down each grub he spawns out of you and instantly kill it or if you pay enough attention to run back each time you get the debuff I’m fine with you beeing in meele. But if you only miss one you better switch to a ranged weapon leave my group.

This is not about being bad, if you want to be a member of a party your own opinion is not worth more than that of the others. So, if 4 players in your party want you to use a ranged weapon you use a ranged weapon.

Hmm, last time Grub spawned out of me? Can’t remember. Really. That infection animation is so long and you have so long room for dodging it is literally impossible to miss it (devs must be happy when 99% of players do phase 1 so wrong). And even if I failed all I had to do is run back to other people (or burst Grub).
+ we just ignore Swarms because they mostly die naturally anyway and not that hard to finish off in p2.

This is exactly why you just shouldn’t do what everyone else tells you. Good chance that no one has a clue. Of course it works other way around too.

Eldiora.5836:

I have seen many guardians and the most horrible ones have been those that used GS only and refused to do anything else. I do not kick them from a group but I make sure to never play with them ever again when I encounter stupid players that refuse to adapt to the situation.

Well yeah, any player who refuses to switch from one specific weapon is generally not an asset. Weapon switching is a gameplay mechanic, and it’s intrinsically assumed in the game’s design that players are using it. I’d say that refusing to switch weapons is a WAAAY bigger problem with Rangers and the Longbow though, than with any Guardians, to the point that I avoid Rangers where possible when I’m not running with my static.

That said, when it comes to the weapon options for a guardian, the scepter is literally the only ranged DPS choice. The staff, while it is ranged, is very clearly not designed for DPS, at least not single target DPS. With only one ranged option (and a one-handed option at that, so only 3 skills) the potential for ranged versatility – or for that very specific weapon to fit every guardian’s playstyle – is staggeringly low.

TL;DR: There’s no excuse for not switching weapons, but a group shouldn’t require anyone to use one specific weapon (which they’re doing by demanding that a Guardian go ranged DPS).

almostdaft.4319:

I do not believe I’m holding the team back or going against a team strategy that was never set-in-stone in the first place. I’ve never flat out said " lol i’m not using range ", I’ve always stated something like, (and sometimes before we begin the dungeon) " I do not use ranged weapons—I believe I do better, and I have, with what equipment and mind-set I have. "

It boggles me where people where conditioned to the point where [X] Trinity needs to be followed, all players must have ranged weapons, and all players must [X]. This game doesn’t bound us to these pointless self-assumed requirements.

1. Trinity needs to be followed – old thought patterns die slowly and I am always a bit weary when groups refer to me as the “tank”. Sure I do “tank” in the sense that I keep the mobs attention on me, control them as best I can and try to keep them focused on me and away from other members of the party but that’s not tanking, that’s “control” and “control” shouldn’t be being done by only one member of the team but all members of the team should be cycling through damage-control-support, which is the GW 2 trinity

2. All players must have ranged weapon – yes this one has been conditioned into us a bit and this is because the average player is simply not good enough in melee to not have ranged option on them.

So here is the problem, you are or atleast you think you are but 4 other random people who may have never grouped with you before don’t know that you are. I know you explain your reasoning and if I was on a team with you, I would give you a chance to show me that you are that have mastered dodging and can melee anything. But not everybody will give you that chance, so all you can really do is say upfront – before you enter the dungeon: “I will not use range at any point” and if the person doesn’t want to play with you, well, do you really want to play with a player who isn’t even willing to give you a chance?

Sina.9208:

You need a ranged weapon period. I’m amazed that you managed to get a dungeon master title without it. How do you kill Lupicus without a ranged weapon for example? If it were my team, I would have totally kicked you too, no offence.

Accept for the first phase you can engage lupi fine in melee and use wall of reflection at PB range for alot of damage.

It’s exactly the reason why I hesitate a lot before I join any pug, and if possible, I just don’t do that.

I can’t stand the default and mindless approach of every pug: “Kite it you nub!!!!”. I’m also a guardian, and as I learned the mechanics of each boss in each dungeon, I can successfuly prevent knock downs, killing shots and many other nasty situations. It often counts party wide, so others don’t even have to worry about nasty moves. Killing bosses melee is often MUCH faster and easier, than using ranged weapons.

I’m glad my guildies have balls to do the stuff in manly way.

Well, that’s what you get for playing with pugs.

We always have a guardian in Arah playing resbot. That way we never wipe at Lupicus. Since we’re all pretty geared up, there’s no damage loss.

Heck, having a resbot is really nice for all dungeons. Sure, the Nightmare Tree in TA takes most dmg from ranged DPS, but the guardian serves well in drawing attention from the spiders/oakhearts.

But hey, pugs be crazy, so maybe make some friends and play with them? I do dungeons with my guild every day, and never have to listen to some arrogant pug telling me what to do.

There are many bosses in old dungeons made for ranged fighting. Even stupid spider in TA up / up path. Guardian is IMO the only class in game with all weapons just usefull. Scepter is funny but quite good ranged weapon, with good immobilze skill.
About fractals answer is simple. Dredge fractal final boss (without ranged weapon you can only use lava buckets there, and still staff is needed for swiftness here). Even with harpies it’s usefull.

I’d be pretty peeved if I were doing TA exp and the Guardian refused to use a staff. I need you to sweep those mines, brother!

Joking aside, while I’m with you that melee is viable on all encounters you have to understand that the other players in your group have no idea if you can actually walk the walk, and many don’t want to risk a Lupi wipe to find out. Most people pugging dungeons are taking the path of least resistance because they can’t be sure of their team’s abilities.

Taking that into account, would it really kill you to be a little more flexible? Next time just be the bigger man and pull out a scepter for five minutes, you’ll have less acrimony in your groups and won’t lose any progress because some kitten kicked you. I mean, you’ve already proven to yourself you can tackle anything in the game with melee, you shouldn’t feel the need to prove it to every PuG you join.

I agree with all lupicus \ dredge fractal comments. In addition to that on higher lvls you cannot afford to get hit by ANYTHING – you got agony as well and you are pretty much done.

Guess OP is just stubborn. TBH i usually kick people like that, thise who refuse to hop in mumble, to bring some necessary utility etc. Its just cheaper for me to spend 5 min and find a replacement than to whipe on Lupicus and constantly clear trash spiders in TA.

BTW, can u melee that flame shard in CoF2?

No idea because of recent changes. At least you used to be with proper positioning.

I’m not that good with fractals that can really comment on melee. Most of the bosses should be doable by standing behind (and dodging when it turns) and watching animations (missing this for few).

There are bosses you can’t melee and forcing you to use a ranged weapon.Like Lupicus.Grubs duty lol.What about phase2? Theres no way you can melee that one.Specialy if you’ve got the agro.What you gonna do , run pretty? because you refuse to use a range weapon.Because its manly?Being useless is manly to you? And its not the only boss you can’t melee.The Butcher in HotW.I’ve seen other stubborn guardians like you that tried to melee him.Down on every attempt.And there are many other bosses too.You gonna melee the dredge boss in FotM? I’d kick you right away.