Guild Wars 2

I personally don’t have much of an issue with the whole magic find gear. I pretty much ignore it, but some people can’t and it creates a kind of uncomfortable pug atmosphere.
The main complain I have seen is that it is selfish to equip MF geat because it is only useful to yourself and not the party.

So here is a solution: Average the magic find over the party when entering a dungeon.

Since MF is a percentage increase it is just natural to use the geometric mean as an equalizer.

An example:
Destiny’s Edge are entering in dungeon. Eir is there for some treasure so she has 80% MF increase equipped. Logan and Rytlock both have friendship rings equipped that come with 40% MF increase each, and Zojja as well as Caithe just want to get down to business and have no magic find gear equipped.
So we take the 5th root from (1.8*1.4*1.4*1*1) which would result in 1.58, if my calculator doesn’t hate me. So we have a 58% MF increase for the whole party.

This way magic find gear would provide something for the whole party and we all get the good feeling that everybody is contributing or something like that… Most of my PUG experiances were pretty fantastic so far, but I guess you can always imporve your game. ^^

This has been suggested many many many many many many times.

Magic find has no place in dungeons and Anet shouldn’t encourage players to detract from the group for personal gain and be rewarded for selfish behavior in a group environment.

If Anet wants to keep magic find for farming open world PvE crafting materials, thats fine, but it should not work in dungeons.

I never have seen a suggestion to average the MF stat over the whole party.

And I don’t know why you would still consider this selfish behavior, when everyone in the party will get a MF boost? Or maybe I just missunderstood what you have wrote….

Magic Find is always a terrible stat in groups because with the way current magic find gear works (With a few exceptions), you’re always dropping stats for magic find. You’re detracting from your own stat pool and thus detracting from the group. Even if magic find was shared/averaged out, you’re still detracting from a group.

It should never be more beneficial to drop stats and lessens a group’s effectiveness in dungeons and be rewarded for it, magic find being shared or otherwise.

It takes dungeons down the road of being more farm oriented for ricing items/gold rather than being uniquely challenging and rewarding. It’s bad for the philosophy behind dungeon design, and it’s bad for groups.

It should not work in dungeons in any effect, ever.

Magic Find can be interesting, but I think anyone can agree that it only benefits the person that uses it and no their party members.

I posted in the Community Voice thread about an idea with Magic Find so I’ll make it short here: I think Magic Find should be an environmental effect in dungeons and it should go up by a certain percentage whenever you kill a Veteran, Champion, or Legendary mob. It could also carry over if you decide to do another path of the same dungeon. For example, you accumulate 50% Magic Find from AC path 1. That same Magic Find buff will carry over if you do path 2 or 3, but if you do a different dungeon like CM, TA, or whatever, then the buff will reset.

@Negativity

Well, usually I would like to have people decide for themself how they want to help their party. At the moment the only exception from this is MF gear because it only helps the player actually who equipped the gear.

An averaged MF would solve this exact issue. The player is helping his party at finding better loot, which is still helpful in dungeon and when the whole party can manage to go through a dungeon with one or two people in complete MF gear… Well, more power to them. Some people can solo dungeon bosses and there are people who do naked runs. In the end the only interesting question is can the party pull off the dungeon run or not?

The problem with the MF right now is that you reduce your own combat effectivness, which reduces your possible contribution to the party and gain more reward because you did so. And I can see why people have a problem with this, and that is exactly why I started this topic.

However, you say that when someone reduces his stats so that the party can find better loot he is still a selfish kitten, even if you managed to find a legendary percurser thanks to his help. Sorry, but I can not really relate to that.

Ari Kagura.9182:

I think Magic Find should be an environmental effect in dungeons and it should go up by a certain percentage whenever you kill a Veteran, Champion, or Legendary mob. It could also carry over if you decide to do another path of the same dungeon. For example, you accumulate 50% Magic Find from AC path 1. That same Magic Find buff will carry over if you do path 2 or 3, but if you do a different dungeon like CM, TA, or whatever, then the buff will reset.

That sounds really interesting. How would that interact with MF gear?

yandere.9176:

An averaged MF would solve this exact issue. The player is helping his party at finding better loot, which is still helpful in dungeon and when the whole party can manage to go through a dungeon with one or two people in complete MF gear… Well, more power to them. Some people can solo dungeon bosses and there are people who do naked runs. In the end the only interesting question is can the party pull off the dungeon run or not?

It wouldn’t solve it, it would exacerbate it. The more magic find effects dungeons, the more people are going to be pushed to run with it to up the ante of the averaged MF percentage.

It’s bad philosophy for dungeon design to condone magic find gear over combat effective stats in any way. It was hilarious to actually get put on an overflow in Cursed Shore a few weeks back because of how many people were farming dynamic events. Too much of this game is farming. Dungeons shouldn’t be farming too. Dungeons can and should be the place for a challenging PvE environment. The fact that soloing dungeons and bosses is possible, and that people running entire dungeons naked is possible speaks volumes about the current state of dungeons. Players shouldn’t have to do ridiculous things like playing naked, or dropping combat effective stats for MF, or soloing the dungeon to make it difficult. Dungeons should emphasize teamwork, synergy, and coordination while being challenging and rewarding in their own right.

Changing the loot tables on chests and boss drops to be more rewarding is the answer, not pushing more MF into dungeons.

yandere.9176:

However, you say that when someone reduces his stats so that the party can find better loot he is still a selfish kitten, even if you managed to find a legendary percurser thanks to his help. Sorry, but I can not really relate to that.

First off, this is relative privation. Saying your idea is good and evidencing its validity by proposing the best possible scenario is illogical, and unfounded.

Secondly, the party doesn’t automatically get better loot by having MF. It’s still RNG, it doesn’t improve loot drops, it improves the chance of improved loot drops. They’re not the same thing. So you’re condoning people dropping combat effective stats and detracting from the group’s effectiveness for a chance of better loot.

I will never agree with MF in dungeons. The truth is the fault lies in the design of dungeons, they should be rewarding in their own right, the design should never push players to be detrimental to a group’s effectiveness for a chance at better loot and players should never have to gear to make the dungeon rewarding.

@yandere.9176

Actually, when I thought of that idea, I was thinking that Magic Find gear itself should be removed from the game and replaced with another percentage-based stat, like Boon/Condition Duration. However, Magic Find consumables could still be used.

Although, if it does end up that way, there should also be other ways of obtaining temporary Magic Find buffs. It’s something I need to think about more, but I do think that Magic Find should be changed in a way so that it benefits the party as a whole.

Averaging MF isn’t a bad idea, when you think of that.
In fact, it will probably decrease the usage of it.
Being a selfish stat, MF users don’t really care about the performance of the group, they care only for their own drops. If you average it, these people will suffer stat lost, since they won’t get a share of the precision on other people’s gear, therefore will only benefit the group drops while loosing a combat stat. They will perform poorly, and eventually will either get kicked or replace their gear.

omerk.2709:

Averaging MF isn’t a bad idea, when you think of that.
In fact, it will probably decrease the usage of it.
Being a selfish stat, MF users don’t really care about the performance of the group, they care only for their own drops. If you average it, these people will suffer stat lost, since they won’t get a share of the precision on other people’s gear, therefore will only benefit the group drops while loosing a combat stat. They will perform poorly, and eventually will either get kicked or replace their gear.

That actually makes sense. Although I still feel the better overall change would be just improving the loot tables and scrapping MF in dungeons altogether.

Please just scrap MF. There’s no point. Kill it now. Kill it.

Tyqer.6413:

Please just scrap MF. There’s no point. Kill it now. Kill it.

Rob runs MF gear. Won’t happen bro.

It is also a bad idea, look how many people got unhappy because they changed a certain weapon skin. If you remove a certain type of gear altogether it would make the probaby many more people upset.

The solution should be a compromise of the current system which is also not really liked and leads to a strange community behaviour and the extrem of compleatly removing it.

mmm nope

tristen.7684:

mmm nope

care to explain?

I agree that it should be averaged equally for the whole party or be removed completely from dungeons.

If you average it eventually people will stop using it after all since they won’t be the only ones getting the boost. And these who want 150+ MF can always make a group full of MFers (it would be fun to watch tho).

The worst thing is not that MF gear exist, the worst thing is that green level 80 gear is much superior to exotic MF gear…and we all know the vast majority of MFers use rare armor and green jewerly. That’s worse than a lvl 80 in blue/white gear just for the sake of getting more profit from dungeons.

I agree that there is some change to MF needed in the game and I don’t understand why people defend it so much. It’s a way to “Steal” from other people, getting more drops than those who are actually doing all the work… It’s like working for a company, at the same department, and one person gets paid more, while doing considerably less, because he is a friend of the boss

Today I decided to make a FotM 30 group. I asked specifically for geared players with no magic find.

What do I get?
3 times in a row, they tell me they are wearing a real gear set, then go in and put thier MF set on thinking I’m stupid ( I see your rare crafted set, I see your Luck sigil, I see your magic find food).. they then proceed to auto attack at range, or go in and die repeatedly. 3 separate people.. 3 separate instances, I kicked them everytime.. and it’s damn well wasting my time.

Even when I go to the trouble to make my own group, and specify that I do not want MF players, they still have the audacity to join and try to leech off my team and not say anything. The other night a necro even went to the trouble of linking his full arah set when he was clearly wearing the crafted magic find set and sigil and dragging the team down.

It’s not fair on me, it’s not fair on my group and it’s damn well not fair on anyone who goes to the trouble and time to do the right thing by their party and do their best.

If people wanna run magic find, they should go make their own groups instead of hijacking a geared team and trying to leech off them.

I dont care of you wanna take magic find in a dungeon, just don’t do it in my party.
I hope that Anet does something to fix this issue, whatever the solution.

swiftpaw.6397:

I hope that Anet does something to fix this issue, whatever the solution.

Well since the new Wintersday recipies add more MF variety I believe Anet doesn’t want to remove it, or even tweak it, but wants all players to run full MF gear everywhere. This is so sad…