Guild Wars 2

I don’t see what the arguments above are about other than humoring us. The OP said gear doesn’t matter unless you speed run. Which is mostly true, but people still ask for zerker gear. But why would you not run zerker gear? Dungeon content doesn’t get too tricky once you have done it a few times, and zerker is the optimal gear to achieve the top dps.
PVT gear may give you high stats when you eat foods, take buffs and screenshot your character in WvW with your guard leech etc to improve it further, which is fine, but it still wont achieve more dps than someone in zerker… and when it comes to speed running that’s all that counts.

Also, just gunna put this out there, Gear DOESN’T make a build, skill and traits do. Sure you can be a ranger or ele in full zerker, but unless you start taking the % damage traits you are doing more harm than good in a speedrun.

Harrahou.4518:

laokoko.7403:

If people dont’ link their gear, there probalby isn’t any easy way to find out what people is wearing.

How am I suppose to kick you if I dont’ know what you are wearing? The only thing people notice is it take longer to kill boss. But it is hard to tell who is the slacker.

But you wont know PVT is obviously better DPS…

There is 5 people in a group. How am I suppose to know who the slacker is without gear linking.

laokoko.7403:

Harrahou.4518:

laokoko.7403:

If people dont’ link their gear, there probalby isn’t any easy way to find out what people is wearing.

How am I suppose to kick you if I dont’ know what you are wearing? The only thing people notice is it take longer to kill boss. But it is hard to tell who is the slacker.

But you wont know PVT is obviously better DPS…

There is 5 people in a group. How am I suppose to know who the slacker is without gear linking.

Idc, you think im here to find a resolution or make it harder for people…? The fact is berserker is the best armour set for PVE. The people who can’t manage it belong in WvW or doing Teq. Are other armour sets viable? I personally dont think there is anything wrong in maybe 40+ fractals a guardian integrating some toughness, like some knights gear etc. The people who argue against the use a zerker only meta, just need to be better players and learn to handle it.

laokoko.7403:

Harrahou.4518:

laokoko.7403:

If people dont’ link their gear, there probalby isn’t any easy way to find out what people is wearing.

How am I suppose to kick you if I dont’ know what you are wearing? The only thing people notice is it take longer to kill boss. But it is hard to tell who is the slacker.

But you wont know PVT is obviously better DPS…

There is 5 people in a group. How am I suppose to know who the slacker is without gear linking.

Most bads don’t make much effort to hide their gear stat combination, seeing a norn guardian with full AC armour and staff, well it’s pretty obvious they’re not a berserker gear user.

The only problem is when they have t3 cultural, then you just have to fall back to looking at what weapons they have or how they play, e.g. you know a warrior is bad when you see them doing GS auto.

considering the amount of text in this topic…

Disclaimer: I now keep zerker gear on my ele for the very little dungeoning I do, minus celestial trinkets, because I’m cheap/dislike having to swap out so much stuff. I do not join speedruns.

Benjamin.8237:

But why would you not run zerker gear?

The fact that zerker gear is most efficient for all runs once you are familiar with them is problematic imo. I admit I’m not super familiar with dungeon meta but do people also want groups generally going for all DPS/offensive support builds as well? I assume so.

It brings up a playstyle disconnect.

The reason why I didn’t start off with zerk is 1) It’s plain easier to learn when you’re more survivable and 2) I don’t actually play DPS classes in most games. I play healers. I LOVE healing, particularly in PvP, so it’s not really about wanting to sit safely in the back, at least for me. It’s simply that I enjoy keeping my buddies alive while being squirrelly enough to keep myself alive under focus fire. Melee healing? Even MORE fun.

I see people routinely crap all over cleric gear, and with how poorly healing power scales, it’s honestly justifiable. But that makes me sad. I love a D/D support build for my ele w/ stability, might stacking, regen, healing, condi removal and prot for my team; but people want a full DPS build w/ lightning hammer instead.

There’s very little room for defensive support or healing in this game EDIT: particularly from a stat/trait perspective, and that’s dissatisfying to me and, I assume, a lot of ex-healers. But I don’t want to heal just for healing’s sake; I want to be efficient and carry my weight, which I finally accepted doesn’t happen with support builds, as long as everyone is fairly competent.

I PERSONALLY would like to see the base healing lowered on heals but scaling vastly improved, so that cleric’s gear would actually have a place.

A little rambly I realize, but TL;DR: Why doesn’t everybody jump straight on the zerker train? Because not everybody enjoys pure DPS classes.

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Still, you gotta play what the game requires you to play. Healing power doesn’t have a use in PvE (to be fair its use in WvW is pretty niche too)? Welp, I don’t use it then.

Been maining a healer/support in other games for a while, but the whole concept of healing is different here. So I play a proper warrior now and am pretty happy.

You should try enjoying things done right, rather than things done the way you want.

TKiller.6829:

Still, you gotta play what the game requires you to play. Healing power doesn’t have a use in PvE (to be fair its use in WvW is pretty niche too)? Welp, I don’t use it then.

Been maining a healer/support in other games for a while, but the whole concept of healing is different here. So I play a proper warrior now and am pretty happy.

You should try enjoying things done right, rather than things done the way you want.

I acknowledged it was a little rambly, but did you even read my post? I mean, the first two lines should tell you I’m already caving to the “no support” thing. And anyway, you don’t find it problematic that anything but glass cannon is just “training wheels” in this game?

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Staff is apparently meant to have DPS on par with lightning hammer, so…

colesy.8490:

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Staff is apparently meant to have DPS on par with lightning hammer, so…

Not in water attunement

colesy.8490:

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Staff is apparently meant to have DPS on par with lightning hammer, so…

Not to mention the upcoming buffs to staff and conjured weapons…. Or at least that’s the rumor. I like staff, but I agree that with scepter and dagger main hand the best combos to make are fire field combos, and there’s very little to do with water/healing.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

colesy.8490:

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Staff is apparently meant to have DPS on par with lightning hammer, so…

Not in water attunement

Tbh if hitting enemies with water hurt them more than fire, I’d be a little concerned.

colesy.8490:

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Staff is apparently meant to have DPS on par with lightning hammer, so…

I find it’s easier to quickly stack might/fury w/ scepter/dagger, though I thousand times prefer straight D/D playstyle. I’d rather lightning hammer it up than play staff. Just don’t enjoy pewpewing from the back.

I got a sad chuckle over the supposed improvement to heal scaling on water 1 for staff (next patch), incidentally.

EDIT:

Tbh if hitting enemies with water hurt them more than fire, I’d be a little concerned.

Yes, but how massive would the healing have to be to be able to justify sitting there in water attunement autoattacking? If I’m spamming a staff auto that’s not for damage, I’d just spam earth for weakness, which prevents more damage than water will ever heal.

I’m excited for the change to unsteady ground. I can see myself using it at the beginning of the Grawl fractal to knock the vets back. I like things that make my poor ele more useful.

Scepter/dagger is by far my favorite. I like how versatile it is in dungeons… but I’m no pro so… yeah.

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Staff is apparently meant to have DPS on par with lightning hammer, so…

I find it’s easier to quickly stack might/fury w/ scepter/dagger, though I thousand times prefer straight D/D playstyle. I’d rather lightning hammer it up than play staff. Just don’t enjoy pewpewing from the back.

I got a sad chuckle over the supposed improvement to heal scaling on water 1 for staff (next patch), incidentally.

EDIT:

Tbh if hitting enemies with water hurt them more than fire, I’d be a little concerned.

Yes, but how massive would the healing have to be to be able to justify sitting there in water attunement autoattacking? If I’m spamming a staff auto that’s not for damage, I’d just spam earth for weakness, which prevents more damage than water will ever heal.

I agree, i wasnt saying that it was useful, I was just pointing out that I get the logic behind the water attunement staff auto-attack being so low damage.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I agree, i wasnt saying that it was useful, I was just pointing out that I get the logic behind the water attunement staff auto-attack being so low damage.

No, I know you weren’t saying that. I’m just pointing out how a slight buff to heal scaling isn’t going to do diddly to encourage its use when you have a much better “defensive support” option in earth if that’s what you’re going for — and it doesn’t even require an investment in cleric gear.

Haha. I can’t remember anything that encourages the use of cleric gear. I feel like its anet’s stepchild gear or something.

I like staff water in certain situations, but usually another attunement can do the job better, unless you’re at grawl and he pops his bubble. Then frozen ground is nice.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Haha. I can’t remember anything that encourages the use of cleric gear. I feel like its anet’s stepchild gear or something.

I like staff water in certain situations, but usually another attunement can do the job better, unless you’re at grawl and he pops his bubble. Then frozen ground is nice.

The rare times I play staff I definitely dip into water some. I was speaking strictly from autoattack and healing perspective. I have zero fractal experience, though.

I try to make uses for staff, I made the bifrost because I like rainbows. Generally in dungeons I struggle to find reasons to use it instead of scepter or dagger….

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I try to make uses for staff, I made the bifrost because I like rainbows. Generally in dungeons I struggle to find reasons to use it instead of scepter or dagger….

=/ Yeah, I see why you’d want to give it some use after working for it.

Ethics.4519:

Stop being nice to each other and agreeing.

Where’d Floryn go?

PVT = new meta. Silly zerks, go home BHBs.

Hehehe. Let’s dungeon again mmmmk?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Ethics.4519:

Stop being nice to each other and agreeing.

Where’d Floryn go?

PVT = new meta. Silly zerks, go home BHBs.

Hehehe. Let’s dungeon again mmmmk?

Yup! I got all night tonight ;-). Just let me grab my AC full PTV so I can go full elitist!

Bright.9160:

But other than that, there was no “I wanna be special and run stupid/detrimental stuff” mentality in GW1, and people were fine with it.

Oh, how I miss the golden days of DoA… Well, nostalgia is a bitter side product of fun…

I feel like that was probably from necessity. GW1 was generally harder and more build-dependent than GW2, so bad builds often meant total failure (e.g., stuff you simply can’t beat with your current setup, getting kicked out of missions if you wipe), instead of just great inefficiency.

voidwater.2064:

Bright.9160:

But other than that, there was no “I wanna be special and run stupid/detrimental stuff” mentality in GW1, and people were fine with it.

Oh, how I miss the golden days of DoA… Well, nostalgia is a bitter side product of fun…

I feel like that was probably from necessity. GW1 was generally harder and more build-dependent than GW2, so bad builds often meant total failure (e.g., stuff you simply can’t beat with your current setup, getting kicked out of missions if you wipe), instead of just great inefficiency.

I actually never looked at it that way, it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the alternate viewpoint.

I. . .I don’t even. . .

Frosty.8491:

I. . .I don’t even. . .

You will have support from the guild no matter the outcome frosty! Hang in there girl, cancer can be fixed with uranium.

Harrahou.4518:

Frosty.8491:

I. . .I don’t even. . .

You will have support from the guild no matter the outcome frosty! Hang in there girl, cancer can be fixed with uranium.

Actually, although your comment was meant in an ironic way, you’re not completely wrong, in the sense that radioactive isotopes are being used to selectively bombard cancerous zones in order to kill the tumor. It’s just not Uranium that they use for that.

Bright.9160:

Harrahou.4518:

Frosty.8491:

I. . .I don’t even. . .

You will have support from the guild no matter the outcome frosty! Hang in there girl, cancer can be fixed with uranium.

Actually, although your comment was meant in an ironic way, you’re not completely wrong, in the sense that radioactive isotopes are being used to selectively bombard cancerous zones in order to kill the tumor. It’s just not Uranium that they use for that.

Bright…Why ruin it!

Rainshine.5493:

Disclaimer: I now keep zerker gear on my ele for the very little dungeoning I do, minus celestial trinkets, because I’m cheap/dislike having to swap out so much stuff. I do not join speedruns.

Benjamin.8237:

But why would you not run zerker gear?

The fact that zerker gear is most efficient for all runs once you are familiar with them is problematic imo. I admit I’m not super familiar with dungeon meta but do people also want groups generally going for all DPS/offensive support builds as well? I assume so.

It brings up a playstyle disconnect.

The reason why I didn’t start off with zerk is 1) It’s plain easier to learn when you’re more survivable and 2) I don’t actually play DPS classes in most games. I play healers. I LOVE healing, particularly in PvP, so it’s not really about wanting to sit safely in the back, at least for me. It’s simply that I enjoy keeping my buddies alive while being squirrelly enough to keep myself alive under focus fire. Melee healing? Even MORE fun.

I see people routinely crap all over cleric gear, and with how poorly healing power scales, it’s honestly justifiable. But that makes me sad. I love a D/D support build for my ele w/ stability, might stacking, regen, healing, condi removal and prot for my team; but people want a full DPS build w/ lightning hammer instead.

There’s very little room for defensive support or healing in this game EDIT: particularly from a stat/trait perspective, and that’s dissatisfying to me and, I assume, a lot of ex-healers. But I don’t want to heal just for healing’s sake; I want to be efficient and carry my weight, which I finally accepted doesn’t happen with support builds, as long as everyone is fairly competent.

I PERSONALLY would like to see the base healing lowered on heals but scaling vastly improved, so that cleric’s gear would actually have a place.

A little rambly I realize, but TL;DR: Why doesn’t everybody jump straight on the zerker train? Because not everybody enjoys pure DPS classes.

The problem is the following: If the team is good enough, there is in fact no need for healing at all. Every class has its own kind of CC, immo, crippling, etc. All that non-traited stuff that does this is just too kittening strong. Trash mobs don’t have a chance against this, and even bosses can be often interrupted. Dodging is the most overpowered mechanic ingame, making you invulnerable to all damage.

The fact is this: All this mechanics are extremely strong, but not really trait-related. Who really needs heal, if he can stealth himself or even evade everything? Healing is nice-to-have but not needed at all. More support than needed is a nuisance to the whole group, slowing it down. And for support, you don’t even need supporter armor or traits. The utility traits and some weapon skills are more than enough for you.

And this is what most people don’t understand at all. It is not about cleric’s. It is, that cleric’s gear and all that other supporter-related stuff is just crappy. The mechanics behind are crappy in a good team. Those people better should learn BASIC CLASS MECHANICS and DODGING. That is more than enough to play good…

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Dromar.1027:

CC isnt even required on dangerous mobs because of the mountain of dps people have, watch them red bars shoot down before the mobs do anything… and then there’s defiant.

Try Dredge at fotm 79 and tell me that cc isn’t important.

Build diversity is the issue and people are being punished for going another route the game offers. Let’s hope the October 15th update helps with some of the frustration.

It won’t. Here is what I said two months ago about “support builds” and the scrubs who want them…

“A lot of players are used to traditional trinity MMO where a “support” character could hang around in the back out of danger buffing his team not really using any twitch or micro skills and get carried through content because even though his skills are low, the character type is important enough to warrant inclusion and thus the lazy man has a path to success. The lazy and less skilled players gravitate to support/midline roles because it allows them to blend into the background for the most part. They don’t get special credit when a raid goes well, but its also usually not their fault when it fails.
Not saying this description applies to everyone who wants to play a dedicated support character, but it certainly describes a significant enough portion of them to make it the rule not the exception.
As I have said in other threads on this topic, this is an action MMO. You can’t reach the top by playing a support necro who sits at 1200 range with staff auto, casting wells on cool down. You have to be in the mix pulling your weight. If this isnt appealing, this probably isnt the game for you.”

Biased much? In almost every game it’s the DPS that are the lazy ones. This game is no exception: “I just want to press 1 and stack using the same strategy for every fight”.

Yaki.9563:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Dromar.1027:

CC isnt even required on dangerous mobs because of the mountain of dps people have, watch them red bars shoot down before the mobs do anything… and then there’s defiant.

Try Dredge at fotm 79 and tell me that cc isn’t important.

Build diversity is the issue and people are being punished for going another route the game offers. Let’s hope the October 15th update helps with some of the frustration.

It won’t. Here is what I said two months ago about “support builds” and the scrubs who want them…

“A lot of players are used to traditional trinity MMO where a “support” character could hang around in the back out of danger buffing his team not really using any twitch or micro skills and get carried through content because even though his skills are low, the character type is important enough to warrant inclusion and thus the lazy man has a path to success. The lazy and less skilled players gravitate to support/midline roles because it allows them to blend into the background for the most part. They don’t get special credit when a raid goes well, but its also usually not their fault when it fails.
Not saying this description applies to everyone who wants to play a dedicated support character, but it certainly describes a significant enough portion of them to make it the rule not the exception.
As I have said in other threads on this topic, this is an action MMO. You can’t reach the top by playing a support necro who sits at 1200 range with staff auto, casting wells on cool down. You have to be in the mix pulling your weight. If this isnt appealing, this probably isnt the game for you.”

Biased much? In almost every game it’s the DPS that are the lazy ones. This game is no exception: “I just want to press 1 and stack using the same strategy for every fight”.

Not really. In most games having optimal dps requires having a fairly complicated DPS rotation down that is a lot harder than spamming party buffs. But obviously every game is different. Generally speaking, midline support characters in the trinity are the kitten role, and you know it, though you can deny it if you want.

SoS and Emo were definitely the hardest roles in uwsc.

Ahahahaha.

Dub.1273:

SoS and Emo were definitely the hardest roles in uwsc.

Ahahahaha.

/thread

Lilith Ajit.6173:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

colesy.8490:

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Staff is apparently meant to have DPS on par with lightning hammer, so…

Not in water attunement

Tbh if hitting enemies with water hurt them more than fire, I’d be a little concerned.

My problem with this game is What if they are MADE of fire?

Checkmate.

lunyboy.8672:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

colesy.8490:

Rainshine.5493:

colesy.8490:

If you want heals, then can’t you just drop a water field and then use the final attack of the lightning hammer chain to blast it for a burst heal?

Unless I’m using staff I won’t have a water field to drop (though teammates could drop one of course). But that’s not so much my point, the point is that specializing in team support and healing via traits and gear isn’t really rewarded.

Staff is apparently meant to have DPS on par with lightning hammer, so…

Not in water attunement

Tbh if hitting enemies with water hurt them more than fire, I’d be a little concerned.

My problem with this game is What if they are MADE of fire?

Checkmate.

Why can I burn a fire ele?

Mmmmmm….

I always ask people in my group to be experienced. I really don’t care how you play on a specific class or what gear you are wearing.
As long as you don’t die a lot and ask people to carry you without contributing anything to the group, you are welcome to my party.

However, if you don’t know how to do the standard way of a dungeon speed run you are very likely to get kicked. After all I do ask about being experienced in my post. And what’s the point in spending more time than you should in a dungeon? You don’t get extra reward for spending extra time .

I don’t hate noobs really.When I have a lot of time on my hand, I usually don’ mind teaching n guys how to do a speed run. But I hate it when you don’t respond and you are obviously clueless. This kind of people always ended up in my blacklist .

Dub.1273:

SoS and Emo were definitely the hardest roles in uwsc.

Ahahahaha.

Spikers in DoA were pretty hard too…

Although to Emo in DoA, you needed at least 1/4th of a brain, mainly to make sure your tanks were bonded and you could spam Burning Speed on Jadoth. So Emo was like 3/4th’s of a kitten role.