Guild Wars 2

Background
In my quest for World Completion, it seems my home world is quite inactive in WvW so I took the easiest way out: Changing home world. It just so happen that at that time, one of the green EU server was dominating with over 85%, blue 15%, red 0%. So I switched to that, thinking that it wouldn’t affect anything else in game.

I was wrong! LFG was also affected. While I did manage to get map completion, my dungeoneering experience was SOO BAD, that I have to share with everyone here. Back in NA, I do dungeon every day for a year, so I know what the pugs are like. After I transferred to EU, I also did most of the dungeon almost every day, and at different times for one whole week, so I think I have a good sample of EU PUGs.

Difference between NA and EU PUGs

1. Achievement Points
Generally EU PUGs have higher AP. Its not hard to get into a PUG with an average AP of 5-6k. However, AP =/= dungeoneering experience. There are sooo many noob actions done by some of the HIGH AP people which I would never find it happening in an NA PUG.
e.g.
i. A guardian not putting up wall of reflection when fighting last boss of AC P2, despite being told before hand. Excuse he gave was “my team usually don’t need it”.
ii. A team with 4 warrior + 1 guardian that can’t destroy eternal flame in 1 try. The problem is because they dont say “r” or “ready” before killing the acolyte, so it was quite a mess.
iii. A 4k AP guy who took away the barrel from the rock in CM P2, instead of taking from the stack. seriously WTF
iv. ignoring downed teammates in boss fight. I know in some circumstances u simply can’t rescue them. But when its ok to do so, and you just continue hitting the boss that’s above 50% hp. now that’s stupid.
v. Taking 3 tries to complete AC P1 because of disagreement over style of play. One high AP guy said his team usually burns thru the boss by stacking. Another one said the beam will melt everyone in the stack. In the end, we kite. (Usual way for NA btw)

2. Selling of Paths
This was the first flag which made me realise after transferring that the LFG system is different from NA. There were numerous people selling paths….. of CM! WTF CM isn’t even hard, and I have even taught a whole team of noobs back in NA how to complete it because its pretty noob friendly as long as they listen. But selling of that easy paths… is pretty ridiculous. Its not even Arah and they are asking 3 gold for it. Also met one of the sellers and he said he did so just to sell 75% experience so noob toons can level up.

This seriously made me look down on the EU PUGs. -.-
Back in NA, how we level up wasn’t thru buying of paths. it was by using level 80 character throughout the paths, and swapping during/after boss fight and getting someone to hold the scene.

3. Difficulty of finding a group
i. I admit, I’m from Asia and when we are awake, whole of europe is asleep so it takes 5min to find a group for some dungeon. This can be mitigated if I played late at night instead.

Not a problem in NA because more Asians play on NA servers.

ii. Elitism This is another reason why its harder to even find a group. In LFG, PUGs asking for 5k AP to even join their team. Well, I understand where they are coming from since EU PUGs is terrible, they are just trying to find the better few. Which brings me back to my first point, even the high AP ppl aren’t good, so why bother?

4. Input lag/high ping in dungeon
Perhaps its just me, that my country’s Internet Service Probider doesn’t have a direct route to EU. Maybe the packets are bouncing through many points across Europe before finally reaching Anet EU server. Funny thing is sometimes even someone in my EU PUG gets disconnected and never rejoin. maybe the EU infrastructure is just bad?
Maybe this might also explain why EU Pugs are bad because they can’t get a stable connection.

This isn’t a problem for NA dungeon server though!

Conclusion
This is just my take on NA vs EU. I might be wrong or that my sample size of 7 days is too small.

What’s your take on this? One things for sure, I’m happily back in NA after paying 1800 gem transfer fee.

Misaka Mikoto.4513:

4. Input lag/high ping in dungeon
Perhaps its just me, that my country’s Internet Service Probider doesn’t have a direct route to EU. Maybe the packets are bouncing through many points across Europe before finally reaching Anet EU server. Funny thing is sometimes even someone in my EU PUG gets disconnected and never rejoin. maybe the EU infrastructure is just bad?
Maybe this might also explain why EU Pugs are bad because they can’t get a stable connection.

The way you guys over there view Europe is just extremely adorable

Vikkela.7261:

The way you guys over there view Europe is just extremely adorable

I feel so bad for laughing at that…

When I went to Europe for a week and pugged, someone I met while carrying a group (with them in it) in arah afterwards made a warrior and named it after mine, so I have no problem with euro pugs at all. They also seemed a lot more grateful when I sold paths.

I play on NA, and i rarely see the “5k+ ap” lfg adds, and i’ve never seen people selling dungeons other than arah here, but i see a lot of people posting on the forums about sellers on these dungeons so i assume its more a EU thing.

About the clueless pugs you can see then everywhere, you said a pug stole the barrel from the rock on cm p2, when i pug the path there is always someone that agroes the mobs stuck on the barrel, normally its a ranger or another class with minion, but its rare for me to have a smooth cm p2 run even with those exploits.

About pugs that dont ress that only made me annoyed once in hotw p2, my group wiped at the beginning of that svanir boss fight (the one with 2 quaggans), and the guardian just proceeded to solo the boss even though he was doing NO damage, and he didnt want to ooc. Gladly one of the players used a revive orb and ressed everyone else, i was ready to ask for a kick on that guardian.

Interesting conclusions, sadly I must admit that the EU ‘pug community’ is troublesome and I especially find the ‘5k+ AP’ trend hilarious.
In truth it is not elitism, just good old idiocy as any PvE player worth his/her salt knows AP has nothing to do with how good someone is except in cases of extremely low AP where the player’s experience or lack there of will surely impact a run negatively.
EU pugs also face language barriers as originally there were german, french and spanish speaking servers beyond the international ones, a lot of people just got attached to their native language and never developed their english, creating all sorts of communication issues.
Just like today, was 4 manning CoF1 and LFG’ed at braziers. Got a mesmer who actually had a clue about what he was doing and he ended up staying for p2 and was using his utilities wisely e.g. portal during bomb runs, however he only spoke french.

As for dungeon selling in EU, sadly I’d say EU servers have a lot more exploiters and griefers in the dungeon selling scene. Right now, there’s pretty much always at least a single LFG ad for AC1 selling by a thief (and we all know how solo’able by a class other than elementalist this path is now) as just an example and everytime I watch videos of exploited runs claiming to be solo’s, somehow their client is always in german (funny coincidence huh?). The fact that these exploitable weaknesses in map design and such have not yet been fixed after all this time and that people who actually share these methods on youtube have not been punished is very disheartening.

I’ve never played in a NA server to compare, but I’ll go out on a limb and say chances are you’ll get grouped with people who play poorly more often than not in either region. Not many competent players left between all of the dungeon dedicated guilds there are at this moment to be in the pug scene.

Using the LFG system on EU servers will start to make you wonder if mental illnesses are actually viral diseases spread throughout the internet.

You know what’s worse than EU pugs? EU pugs at night.
Sadly I’m pretty much forced to pug all the time… I’ve seen horrible things.

Misaka Mikoto.4513:

This is just my take on NA vs EU. I might be wrong or that my sample size of 7 days is too small.

I was really bored by Supernatural so I decided to take a look at the forums. The post was entertaining – gave me a few giggles here and there… But this is were I almost died of silent laughter. It’s just sad that I had to be quiet.
A sample of over a year versus a sample of a week. You go!
/thumbs up
Man, this forum… seriously…

The language thing can make quite a difference. Firstly the organized players join guilds of their language so the good czechs, the good poles, will be doing their own thing. They are not so often in PUGs. Secondly the common knowledge tactics just don’t seem to be common across the language boundaries. The English and Germans generally do the same thing but the Spanish and French have all sort of crazy ideas, and if there are three of them from a guild in your group then there’s no stopping them. Also unsurprisingly, communication is poor and everyone expects to get on with things without having said more than hi and ready.

If I only had 1g for all the 5k+ “dungeoneers” that I had to tell what to do with my modest ~4k AP…

winterchillz.2564:

If I only had 1g for all the 5k+ “dungeoneers” that I had to tell what to do with my modest ~4k AP…

On the otherhand… nothing like having a 700ap bearbow telling you how to run COF P1, when ur having as measly 10k ap, brightens your day

Oh, one more thing I like about NA PuGs is that I can finish the daily paths of AC P1-3, CM 1&3, TA Up&Fwd, SE 1&3, CoF P1&P2, HoTW P1 in 4-5hr after server reset.

On the other hand, if you look at EU LFG right after reset… its impossible

Misaka Mikoto.4513:

Oh, one more thing I like about NA PuGs is that I can finish the daily paths of AC P1-3, CM 1&3, TA Up&Fwd, SE 1&3, CoF P1&P2, HoTW P1 in 4-5hr after server reset.

On the other hand, if you look at EU LFG right after reset… its impossible

When does NA has its reset? EU has at 02:00.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

When does NA has its reset? EU has at 02:00.

I am on EU servers since the beta. Luckily, I mostly play with my guild. But sometimes I pug and it’s pretty horrible. The AP stuff is one example, then the horrible builds they have. Bearbows AT ALL TIMES. What the kitten, really guys… Once in SE Path 1 I was the ONLY MELEEING, the rest – A 17’000 AP warrior included – was fighting the first golem with ranged weapons. It took us about 5 minutes to kill this ridiculous easy monster and as a Berserker Guardian I got downed about 2-3 times. Which made me looking silly. I really should go with a Hammer build with pugs in the future…

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Misaka Mikoto.4513:

Oh, one more thing I like about NA PuGs is that I can finish the daily paths of AC P1-3, CM 1&3, TA Up&Fwd, SE 1&3, CoF P1&P2, HoTW P1 in 4-5hr after server reset.

On the other hand, if you look at EU LFG right after reset… its impossible

When does NA has its reset? EU has at 02:00.

This is one thing on the forum that always confused me. Doing things “at reset”. So lots of people farm at 2 in the morning? Can’t be right…

I saw a thread on reddit where someone said NA standard is to skip Kohler, but in EU most groups kill him. When I was still doing regular runs, with complete randoms out of lfg, we always killed him. Without discussion. Most everyone in EU lfg knows the same script for what to do, where to stand, and when to dodge. Some groups are a bit faster than others, but the script is the same. Especially good or bad individual players are relatively uncommon, at least in the “experienced” groups. Most groups I ended up in were competent enough. What is there to discuss? Conversation was largely limited to random chatting, I can’t remember discussing strategy, unless someone was new, then they were taught the script.

I’m not the most experienced, but I finished hobby dungeon explorer ages ago, so that’s hundreds of pugs right there.

http://i.imgur.com/XAvGJWT.jpg

#JustEuropeanPuggingThings

Purple Miku.7032:

http://i.imgur.com/XAvGJWT.jpg

#JustEuropeanPuggingThings

Why

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Purple Miku.7032:

http://i.imgur.com/XAvGJWT.jpg

#JustEuropeanPuggingThings

Why

I dunno. I was soloing Lupicus and suddenly the ranger ran in and before I knew it, bladetrail’d from behind by the champ warrior.

So I just harpy feather + spykit comboed out of there and watched the devastation from afar.

I think the guy meant sadist? Hm?

deSade.9437:

I think the guy meant sadist? Hm?

I think he meant “You’re gonna do it with those pugs? You really have to be a masochist to do it with them.”

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

deSade.9437:

I think the guy meant sadist? Hm?

I think he meant “You’re gonna do it with those pugs? You really have to be a masochist to do it with them.”

I think you need to look at the sky because it went straight above your head.

Ohhhh gods oh gods I should seriously do that. Aggro the champ while luping.

Lalocat.6793:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Misaka Mikoto.4513:

Oh, one more thing I like about NA PuGs is that I can finish the daily paths of AC P1-3, CM 1&3, TA Up&Fwd, SE 1&3, CoF P1&P2, HoTW P1 in 4-5hr after server reset.

On the other hand, if you look at EU LFG right after reset… its impossible

When does NA has its reset? EU has at 02:00.

This is one thing on the forum that always confused me. Doing things “at reset”. So lots of people farm at 2 in the morning? Can’t be right…

I saw a thread on reddit where someone said NA standard is to skip Kohler, but in EU most groups kill him. When I was still doing regular runs, with complete randoms out of lfg, we always killed him. Without discussion. Most everyone in EU lfg knows the same script for what to do, where to stand, and when to dodge. Some groups are a bit faster than others, but the script is the same. Especially good or bad individual players are relatively uncommon, at least in the “experienced” groups. Most groups I ended up in were competent enough. What is there to discuss? Conversation was largely limited to random chatting, I can’t remember discussing strategy, unless someone was new, then they were taught the script.

I’m not the most experienced, but I finished hobby dungeon explorer ages ago, so that’s hundreds of pugs right there.

For killing Kohler it depends. If you’re trying to clear ASAP before server reset time at 00:00 GMT, then most would skip. But after reset when we have all the time in the world, then we will kill. Also depend on PuG’s make-up. Usually I ask for warr/guard/ele, so killing Kohler is just 1 min detour. Can’t imagine doing with ranger/necro together though, or a team with all light armor

Purple Miku.7032:

http://i.imgur.com/XAvGJWT.jpg

#JustEuropeanPuggingThings

#CloserToTheStars indeed if you’re dead

wait, are you saying na pugs arent horrible?

My experience is completely opposite. For 2 weeks a friend of mine gave me his account (it was on NA) because he was going on holiday and wanted me to do his dungeon master achievement for him. The amount of people with the most horrible builds joining berserker runs were a lot bigger then in EU. It had been a very very long time since I saw a banner regen warrior. Also the tactics are ridiculous, kiting the spider queen around the statue the whole time? rly? Not to mention the horrible old kholer stack where you can’t see kitten…

As for CM path selling (and AC) it’s not about being able to do it or not. It’s also not about ppl being noobs, it’s just a very easy and fast way to level up. Even switching at the end boss starts getting old very fast when you’re on your 8th toon.

Purple Miku.7032:

http://i.imgur.com/XAvGJWT.jpg

#JustEuropeanPuggingThings

That was funny. Staff guard and longbow ranger didnt hit any boss (just lupi but they died from pull anyway). Engi was not that bad cuz he was fast enough to use wp and fight with alphard xD. U should make screnshoot at gate while u tried to kill abominations and they pulled everything to u :>. STEALTH CONSUMABLES OP NURF PLEZ.

I tried to pug arah p1 today, and while i was soloing entities, my lovely pugz decided to kill me and they joined me with oozes and drakes. I ran away, they died except tanky guardian who was kiting entities and not attacking them. After 3 min he jump off cliff, i finish them in few seconds and got kicked cuz i didnt help him while he kite them. <3
My next pt was 2x war 1x guard and we wipe at tar 2 times cuz they wasnt burning him. They had 6-9k ap. EU pugz so stronk.

Tales of someone with extensive experience PUGing the easy dungeons in both regions!

Regarding AC: The NA stacking spot for Kholer drives me nuts. You can only see what’s going on if your camera stays at one specific angle, and he can fear you into the water if he gets behind the party. Take heed, NA friends: Stack in the 90° corner of the right hand pillar and you’ll be fine.

And while I can sort of understand skipping Kholer for certain paths, my P1 experiences with NA have been hilariously horrific.

One PUG I was in rushed south, and we wiped during the burrow event, forcing us to run back from the spawn WP. Okay, I guess we should’ve just not wiped, right? Lesson learnt. We completed the event, and then people started running up through the fire-breathing staircase. Oh my goodness, why? One went down. Another went to save him and they both died. Someone walked up there to rez the first two and died himself. They ran back aaall the way from the spawn WP. I should have dropped group at this point, but no. I was determined to see it through. What was our next move? Why, we went to kill Kholer, of course! Naturally, we wiped there too, twice, but hey, I had come that far. But apparently the opener had enough by then, because he nope’d out of the party with a rage-filled farewell, and I was left mourning the loss of the last forty minutes of my life.

I’m not even going to talk about the time I opened CoF P2 and had four people from the same guild join and ask me to teach them the path. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. At certain points, I did both.

If you’re interested, I run an EA warrior and a might-stacking ele for dungeons.

~Only in early morning NA~

I don’t think people realise how much time and effort is involved in teaching

maha.7902:

I don’t think people realise how much time and effort is involved in teaching

especially if it’s soloing an arah path. I get so many requests for those, some even offer to pay, but it’s very time consuming and often times can be very frustrating depending on how cooperative the person being taught is.

Purple Miku.7032:

maha.7902:

I don’t think people realise how much time and effort is involved in teaching

especially if it’s soloing an arah path. I get so many requests for those, some even offer to pay, but it’s very time consuming and often times can be very frustrating depending on how cooperative the person being taught is.

There are non-cooperative people when teaching? wat.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Purple Miku.7032:

maha.7902:

I don’t think people realise how much time and effort is involved in teaching

especially if it’s soloing an arah path. I get so many requests for those, some even offer to pay, but it’s very time consuming and often times can be very frustrating depending on how cooperative the person being taught is.

There are non-cooperative people when teaching? wat.

Yeah. There are people who just give attitude/won’t listen to reason. It sucks, but, we can only do so much.

IvanTheGrey.2941:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Purple Miku.7032:

maha.7902:

I don’t think people realise how much time and effort is involved in teaching

especially if it’s soloing an arah path. I get so many requests for those, some even offer to pay, but it’s very time consuming and often times can be very frustrating depending on how cooperative the person being taught is.

There are non-cooperative people when teaching? wat.

Yeah. There are people who just give attitude/won’t listen to reason. It sucks, but, we can only do so much.

Good thing I never had that happen to me. If someone wanted to get something teached from me, it’s either listen or gtfo; he’s the one who wants to learn. If he has valid points I’ll listen of course but if someone does his own thing anyway, why should he need me then?

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Purple Miku.7032:

maha.7902:

I don’t think people realise how much time and effort is involved in teaching

especially if it’s soloing an arah path. I get so many requests for those, some even offer to pay, but it’s very time consuming and often times can be very frustrating depending on how cooperative the person being taught is.

There are non-cooperative people when teaching? wat.

Yeah. There are people who just give attitude/won’t listen to reason. It sucks, but, we can only do so much.

Good thing I never had that happen to me. If someone wanted to get something teached from me, it’s either listen or gtfo; he’s the one who wants to learn. If he has valid points I’ll listen of course but if someone does his own thing anyway, why should he need me then?

I absolutely agree.