There’s a lot of people that just don’t want to put the time and dedication into making it work. That doesn’t make them causal that just makes them lazy. Lazy does not equal casual. Someone who plays 7 hours a week and puts 1-2 hours into this a night with the same group who also plays around the same time will be able to get this within a month as long as they work at it and are willing to adapt. This whole lazy attitude or “my way or no way” attitude doesn’t make a person casual; that just makes them a bad player.
Granted I personally prefer pug groups that are running all ascended. Not because of the fact they are ascended but because those people are more LIKELY dedicated and have a sense of determination to get through the content. Sure some of these people are “elitists” but thats fine and doesn’t bother me.
Sorry if I am offending anyone but really this is ridiculous. Some posters are unable to step back and see the bigger picture. Or they have this “my way or the highway” attitude not only in game but also here on the forums. There’s no winning with these people. Not on a boss and not on the forums.
That is in no way my fault and yet I can’t raid because of it.
Raids are broken for people with lag. I want my legendary armor. I am willing to work for it. But I am not willing to get abused by Elitist Toxic Players who cant even spell saying “Get Gud”. The words are Get Good. You should look at the plank in your own eye before attempting to get the speck out of mine.
That is in no way my fault and yet I can’t raid because of it.
Raids are broken for people with lag. I want my legendary armor. I am willing to work for it. But I am not willing to get abused by Elitist Toxic Players who cant even spell saying “Get Gud”. The words are Get Good. You should look at the plank in your own eye before attempting to get the speck out of mine.
You can’t expect Anet to make a server just for you. It’s just not feasible to make oceanic servers. Yes it’s an “international game” but that is a terrible argument for saying Anet needs to make servers when their budget wouldn’t be able to do it. If someone can get internet in Antartica does that mean they should put servers there too because it’s an “international” game. So sorry you have lag and you’re so upset. But take a minute and cool off and think this through from Anet’s standpoint.
That is in no way my fault and yet I can’t raid because of it.
Raids are broken for people with lag. I want my legendary armor. I am willing to work for it. But I am not willing to get abused by Elitist Toxic Players who cant even spell saying “Get Gud”. The words are Get Good. You should look at the plank in your own eye before attempting to get the speck out of mine.
You can’t expect Anet to make a server just for you. It’s just not feasible to make oceanic servers. Yes it’s an “international game” but that is a terrible argument for saying Anet needs to make servers when their budget wouldn’t be able to do it. If someone can get internet in Antartica does that mean they should put servers there too because it’s an “international” game. So sorry you have lag and you’re so upset. But take a minute and cool off and think this through from Anet’s standpoint.
I never asked for a server where I am.
I asked what about lag/ping issues. As in people keeps saying raids are for the elite and the hardcore and the pugs now, I’m asking what can be done to make raids work for people (and there are a lot) who have bad lag and ping.
There are many ways to make content available and not be exclusive to players with great ping. Other portions of this game show that.
Casual friendly…?!?
I know, everybody has slightly different ideas of what “casual” means.
But spending 30mins to 1hour just to find a grp and organize this grp, isn´t that much casual friendly for me.
Oh, and someone has left the grp…just wait another 15-30mins to fill up the party again.
Not that casual friendly i think.
Casual friendly…?!?
I know, everybody has slightly different ideas of what “casual” means.
But spending 30mins to 1hour just to find a grp and organize this grp, isn´t that much casual friendly for me.
Oh, and someone has left the grp…just wait another 15-30mins to fill up the party again.
Not that casual friendly i think.
This pretty much goes back to the fact that there’s no LFR or enchanced LFG tool to help facilitate this. So yeah, I hope our casual players already have a way to get a group beforehand (guild or regular dungeon/fractal buddies). Otherwise, they are losing time trying to pug raids when they’re probably already on a time crunch.
Eh, if anything someone will do the jobs themselves and put together a website or something like gw2lfg (gw2lfr?) ages before the anet team addresses the issue themselves.
Casual friendly…?!?
I know, everybody has slightly different ideas of what “casual” means.
But spending 30mins to 1hour just to find a grp and organize this grp, isn´t that much casual friendly for me.
Oh, and someone has left the grp…just wait another 15-30mins to fill up the party again.
Not that casual friendly i think.
Umm what were you doing when the raids were announced months beforehand and all the guilds were suddenly recruiting for raid teams? Even if you weren’t going to be in a dedicated raid team, you could have explained your situation and gotten a spot for raids since guildies tend to help each other out. Since HoT launched I played about 6 hours a week at odd hours but since I was in a raiding guild I was able to get the first raid wing cleared with ease.
There were measures that you could have taken, or at least build up some friendships but you chose not to do either of these things. Don’t blame the community for not satisfying your needs because not everything or everyone has to work with you. You still have the options of pugging, running with friends, or joining a raid guild. Oh and btw, if you submit a video of yourself demonstrating your superb skill in pve such as soloing lupi with 1 finger or getting the fastest boss kill records or even demonstrating a proper rotation for condi engi, then people will accept you for your skills instead of your gear.
This pretty much goes back to the fact that there’s no LFR or enchanced LFG tool to help facilitate this.
I want to iterate once more that this will happen but it is not easy for ANet and will take a lot of effort. Additionally, there are always a breadth of people LFR in the LFG tool for all roles. They may not always be great, but if you find people with the right attitude consider adding them to your friends list and whispering them for future groups. You’d be surprised how easy it is to create a “steady” pub group if you take the initiative in organizing like that.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
This pretty much goes back to the fact that there’s no LFR or enchanced LFG tool to help facilitate this.
I want to iterate once more that this will happen but it is not easy for ANet and will take a lot of effort.
See I’m higly skeptical of that. Ya of course if they gonna make a complete overhaul of the LFG or if they have difficulty making Squad work with the LFG, that I could understand.
But just adding some section in the LFG? Adding a section Raid or a section Maguuma for the 4 new maps?? Is that so much complicated to do? They did it with fractal, changed the name of the section. So why raid and the new 4 maps are SO MUCH more difficult? Hell they could even use current section and just rename them. Half of the LFG is unused. Nobody post in the WvW section and PvP isn’t far from it. People just don’t use that tool for that type of content.
IMO, they want to overhaul the LFG at some point in the future and until then, they don,t want to touch it. Even if just a really really small amount of resources just to adapt a tiny tiny bit the LFG would do wonder for the players. Changing a tag or two on the LFG ain’t hard.
Revamping LFG will not do anything other than more people whining about how they still can’t get groups anymore. At this point people should accept that raid is a content that requires a bit of work and knowledge of boss/classes and they should either form a guild or move on. Let’s say LFG is revamped for raids, and then some people still won’t get in because of their gear, skill, inability to practice with team, attitude, etc. Then they will complain that LFG for raid doesn’t work anyway.
Why bother fixing LFG for raids when we all know that the people who complain aren’t going to be accepted anyway. I’m sure some of the guilds have already made a blacklist of complainers on forum or do background check using search function on forum. Seriously I can’t stress this enough, that there are visual and written guides, live streams, and guilds still recruiting for raid yet these people still complain. The system can only go so far to provide the necessary utilities and opportunities. At this point, its the individuals who are excluded for whatever reason, and I have to say it is obivous why they are excluded even from pug community.
See I’m higly skeptical of that. Ya of course if they gonna make a complete overhaul of the LFG or if they have difficulty making Squad work with the LFG, that I could understand.
But just adding some section in the LFG? Adding a section Raid or a section Maguuma for the 4 new maps?? Is that so much complicated to do? They did it with fractal, changed the name of the section. So why raid and the new 4 maps are SO MUCH more difficult? Hell they could even use current section and just rename them. Half of the LFG is unused. Nobody post in the WvW section and PvP isn’t far from it. People just don’t use that tool for that type of content.
IMO, they want to overhaul the LFG at some point in the future and until then, they don,t want to touch it. Even if just a really really small amount of resources just to adapt a tiny tiny bit the LFG would do wonder for the players. Changing a tag or two on the LFG ain’t hard.
Tah Dah. That alone would suffice for now. Right now you pull up LFG and there are posts upon posts about Raids intermingled with SW and Magus Falls events. A simple Raid tab would do wonders, bonus points if we can get sub-tabs for each of the individual bosses. The flashy stuff (if that’s the project goal) can come later if need be.
As far as the whole just “add good players as your friends and whisper them” suggestion: we’ve (the general we) have been doing that since the launch of the game, and while some have better luck than other the whole friending thing doesn’t work everytime since they might be busy doing something else or even raiding with their side friends (GASP!). Go with your Guildies? Well, I guess that depends on your guild, where you fall in their ranks, and whether or not there’s a spot for you. Find an auxiliary Guild to raid? I hope req requirements don’t clash.
How did all that effort from players work out? Some player took the initiative to make a website dedicated to party finding and instantly grouping was much easier since we could find other players who were wanting to tackle the same content.
Call it lazy or not but on nights where I have just a few minutes to play I more easily and more quickly find a group on LFG to get in my fractal dailies than trying to play buddy roulette through Whisper or Guild chat.
First of all Vale Guardian is extremely easy once u gather 10 people that have practiced it enough. Not a good gauge for the “casualness” of the raid.
“I consider myself casual so the content must be casual?” I don’t think so. You obviously have hours to put into the game and the community if you are a fourm specialist. That doesn’t fit many people’s definition of casual.
Casual content is when you can log on, grab your buddies that happen to be online, without having a degree of planning to your comp, and go enjoy something of moderate difficulty that takes maybe an hour.
I am not saying Raids should be made casual but lets not try to pass an apple off as an orange.
Casual content is when you can log on, grab your buddies that happen to be online, without having a degree of planning to your comp, and go enjoy something of moderate difficulty that takes maybe an hour.
I disagree, but with your definition of casual being very extreme and mine far more middling that doesn’t surprise me. I will absolutely say that raids are far less casual friendly than dungeons are, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t casual friendly at all. Raids in their current form afford so much flexibility in player makeup that I can’t believe anyone would be truly convinced that they’re totally casual unfriendly while having also given it a real chance.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Really feels like an argument of semantics more than anything.
Raids may seem casual to some, but, imo, they are far from inclusive – for both community-driven and logistical reasons.
There are roles that are absolutely required for any chance of success (shadows of the trinity) – and there is an EXTREMELY high chance, when a group of friends get together casually, that a few of them will have to be excluded from the group based solely on the divide by 10 math.
I’m not debating the good or bad of these points – just stating them as facts. And, for these reasons, I do not see raiding as a casual gaming activity.
In many ways, raiding in GW2 is far less casual friendly than it is in other MMOs. In other games, players that didnt want to invest the hours into learning to master the difficult content at first could always look forward to the day when their gear made it much easier.
While I am glad there is no treadmill in GW2 (and am enjoying the current content ), this does mean that the content will most likely remain walled off from those players indefinitely – which is a shame, imo.
I posted a possible compromise in another thread that would allow for more raid exposure without invalidating the difficulty – simply implement the gold/silver/bronze reward system from other areas of the game into raids – in place of the enrage. Beat the boss within X minutes, you get gold; two minutes after, silver; and bronze after that. That way people are still rewarded for learning the mechanics and those putting in the top level effort are still recognized for their accomplishments.
Its perfectly casual friendly. Its just not antisocial friendly. If you wont make the effort to find a group to do it with and keep trying and improving then of course you wont get anywhere.
It literally only takes a few hours of dedicated learning to get things down. Assuming you can get a reasonably consistent line up of players. And assuming those players are willing to actually adapt and analyse themselves and the teams performance without throwing tantrums.
Even if you can only play an hour a night it should still be possible assuming you have a group that is willing to play with that schedule.
It literally only takes a few hours of dedicated learning to get things down. Assuming you can get a reasonably consistent line up of players. And assuming those players are willing to actually adapt and analyze themselves and the teams performance without throwing tantrums.
Getting such a group is much more likely in a guild than in a PuG.
Yeah and raids arent meant to be pugged. If you cant form a guild group then form a group of friends instead. This still comes under the social category. If you cant sort out a proper group for group content that requires coordination and teamwork then you probably shouldnt be bothering to raid in the first place.
And if you still insist on raiding with pugs then you should have no expectations of success in such a group. Just enjoy what you can instead of complaining. Because really the complaints arent really about the content they are about peoples inability to make friends and get a group together. Or their own or others inability to be flexible (common occurence in pugs).
This pretty much goes back to the fact that there’s no LFR or enchanced LFG tool to help facilitate this.
I want to iterate once more that this will happen but it is not easy for ANet and will take a lot of effort.
Are you sure? Because from the dev statements so far it seems we don’t have LFG tool for raids because devs didn’t want us to have one. Remember, that they have said clearly that raids are not for pugs. Which, by the way, means that “not casual friendly” was one of the design goals.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Yeah and raids arent meant to be pugged. If you cant form a guild group then form a group of friends instead. This still comes under the social category. If you cant sort out a proper group for group content that requires coordination and teamwork then you probably shouldnt be bothering to raid in the first place.
And if you still insist on raiding with pugs then you should have no expectations of success in such a group. Just enjoy what you can instead of complaining. Because really the complaints arent really about the content they are about peoples inability to make friends and get a group together. Or their own or others inability to be flexible (common occurence in pugs).
tl;dr
Dont pug. Or dont expect success in a pug.
This I can agree with. The content is fine the issue being the effort of the average player not meeting the expectations required to progress in the content (be it laziness or schedule conflicts).
A proper LFG tool won’t suddenly turn a noob into a raid conquering hero, but it would help many players get their foot in the door and at least experience the content. From there, the player decides if they want to take the content more seriously or continue casually experiencing the content through PUG’s. Though the understanding is very clear that walking into raids with a group like that should be primarily for the experience as clearing/progressing through the content with such a group has low success rates; raids are new after all.
Later on, I’m sure strategy/techniques we use now will be more and more refined where the execution of them doesn’t require nearly as much skill as they do now. At which point, I would say that raids have become closer to being casual friendly.
Are you sure? Because from the dev statements so far it seems we don’t have LFG tool for raids because devs didn’t want us to have one. Remember, that they have said clearly that raids are not for pugs. Which, by the way, means that “not casual friendly” was one of the design goals.
The developers never said they didn’t want an LFG for raids, they said that they did not want a raid finder. Colin then went on the clarify on Reddit that he was speaking about queuing up for a raid and being given a random group, like some other MMOs. That type of raid finder will never exist in GW2.
I, obviously, do not speak for the ANet staff, but in talking with them they recognize how requested and valued a LFG section for raids would be, and they know that the “Open World” section is currently a mess and they want to do something about it.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Are you sure? Because from the dev statements so far it seems we don’t have LFG tool for raids because devs didn’t want us to have one. Remember, that they have said clearly that raids are not for pugs. Which, by the way, means that “not casual friendly” was one of the design goals.
The developers never said they didn’t want an LFG for raids, they said that they did not want a raid finder. Colin then went on the clarify on Reddit that he was speaking about queuing up for a raid and being given a random group, like some other MMOs. That type of raid finder will never exist in GW2.
I, obviously, do not speak for the ANet staff, but in talking with them they recognize how requested and valued a LFG section for raids would be, and they know that the “Open World” section is currently a mess and they want to do something about it.
They clearly said however, that this content is not meant for pugs. And LFG-made groups, no matter how experienced each individual player is, are exactly that – pugs.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
They clearly said however, that this content is not meant for pugs. And LFG-made groups, no matter how experienced each individual player is, are exactly that – pugs.
That has also apparently been misinterpreted. Lack of TS, lack of team build planning, lack of class structure, and little experience are common features of the PUG, and those uncoordinated groups are what raids are not designed for. They’re designed for people who are willing to organize. When serious groups get together using the LFG tool, they are still winning by using TS / proper builds / proper builds / etc. Those groups are not what they were talking about.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
I actually interpreted their comments of no raid finder as no raid lfg. Simply because having a raid lfg category is basically the same as a raid finder. We dont have any automated parties in gw2 apart from PvP matchmaking. So if they want to avoid encouraging people playing in pugs in content which isnt meant for pugs then it makes complete sense to say no raid lfg. And i think that is the right call in this case.
Although i do think the LFG needs new categories. Not raids. But it needs lots of sub categories for various open world stuff. Its a complete joke to find a relevant group for most stuff when raids, sw chest farm, hot map meta taxis, etc etc are all in the same place. The new maps, drytop and silverwastes need their own categories. Open world/general can be used for other adhoc things such as people determined to pug raids. This makes the entire LFG more tidy, still allows people to pug raids and also doesnt encourage people to think they should pug for raiding.
