Guild Wars 2

Hello,

I’d like to share with you about my opinion and ideas on GW2 raids.
I’m new player, few day ago I made my first full ascended gear. Just after that I wanted to try myself in raids. I prepared myself by watching tactic on YT.
My guild don’t play raids, so I used LGF tools. I’m playing full berserk gear on Engi.
Guess what, i can’t find group to make first wing. I found one team, I showed my gear on chat, and just after that I got few opinion about meta, ect.
I understand all this things about build perfect team compilation. Getting meta healers, meta condi damage, meta tank. But in that way I have no chance to play this content, unlock masteries, practice in killing the bosses.
Prizes for killing bosses in raid are very good. But that is not the only reason people want to play raids.
Why Arena don’t want to make easier mode, which don’t need meta builds. Lest start to teach players how to move in fight with all bosses. I’m sure that players will participate more offten in easier rids for lower prices than now. They would like to learn about fight mechanics, and do all content in game.

Because 90% of the game is “press 1 to win” already.
Raids are meant to be hard and should remain that way. It is therefore up to players to practice(can always make own group), wipe a bunch of times, and eventually conquer the content. The question about different said difficulties have been dealt with 3647485635 times on this forum already(more specifically the raid sub forum) and there is no point of discussing it more.

PS, none of the raid bosses require strict meta as long as people have a clue what they are doing

Chris McSwag.4683:

Because 90% of the game is “press 1 to win” already.

I dont’t agree. There is masive thing which need close cooperation, timing and good players.

Chris McSwag.4683:

Raids are meant to be hard and should remain that way.

Please read my post once again. You don’t have to participate in easier raid. Play your own meta.

Chris McSwag.4683:

It is therefore up to players to practice(can always make own group), wipe a bunch of times, and eventually conquer the content.

You are right. But:
- first if we will have easier mode to practice, meta players doing raids will have more experienced players to choose.
- second I can’t practice cuz on that lvl of difficulty, probably i wont be able to kill first boss. How I will practice on next one? [/quote]

Chris McSwag.4683:

The question about different said difficulties have been dealt with 3647485635 times on this forum already.

And there is a problem. Such a amout of posts should make Arena more favorable to players.

Training groups are not easy to fill from PuGs at all if you’re starting from scratch, so you’re better off trying to find a guild (also hard for some reason even though I get asked about raids a lot during T4 fractals).

I guess people in GW2 simply don’t use the LFG system correctly: sometimes I see 10 different people looking for the same boss at LFG tab, while a single one is looking for 7 more on the LFM chat, and they never join or find each other! It’s really skewed towards static guild groups right now, and I don’t believe it’s the difficulty, but rather the population numbers, causing this.

Timo.1065:

- second I can’t practice cuz on that lvl of difficulty, probably i wont be able to kill first boss. How I will practice on next one?

so how did all succesfull raiders practise then? Think about it. There are traininggroups and guilds for raids. There is a discord server which hosts trainingraids every few days (sometimes also announced on the forums). There are LFG groups training various bosses. If those don’t help you for whatever reason find a group of interested people and make a static raidteam to train with and hopefully kill the bosses in a few weeks.

We’ve had some experiences like this, and with pugs. We have a guild for this issue – Training/learning for raids:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor/EU-Poisoned-by-elitism-Don-t-worry-us-too/first#post6410856

You can check this forum for more information:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons

there is even a thread at the top on the subject…

Go do Fractals, PVP or WvW instead. Those were GW2’s original endgame and they drop ascended gear. You will find those things more skill based than Raids, PUG friendly, More Entertaining and fun.

Raids is not about skill, its about being “Sociable”. You must be willing to use VOIP, actively talk, be funny and not quiet. It also requires you to use Meta builds esp if you plan on PUGing it. When you finally find a team and beat an entire wing in less than an hour or so in your first try, you would be like “That was it? pfft…”

Only do raids if you really want that Raid Legendary Armor which is used, according to raiders for GW2’s true endgame, for WvW, since you can change stats.

Hirasaki.6208:

Go do Fractals, PVP or WvW instead. Those were GW2’s original endgame and they drop ascended gear. You will find those things more skill based than Raids, PUG friendly, More Entertaining and fun.

Raids is not about skill, its about being “Sociable”. You must be willing to use VOIP, actively talk, be funny and not quiet. It also requires you to use Meta builds esp if you plan on PUGing it. When you finally find a team and beat an entire wing in less than an hour or so in your first try, you would be like “That was it? pfft…”

Only do raids if you really want that Raid Legendary Armor which is used, according to raiders for GW2’s true endgame, for WvW, since you can change stats.

I mean sure, it’s like that if you get carried through after people figure out the mechanics. The same can be said for any content though. For raiders a bulk of the fun came from trying, failing, learning and refining the fights to get to that point. It should come as no surprise that now good groups have raids down to being glorified 10 man dungeons.

Mechanics are posted in gw2 WIKI and in youtube videos, anyone can read those, put on ascended gear and faceroll the raid tiers. You don’t need a carry on any of these. You just need 9 ppl to faceroll them with.

Solo queue PVP vs a premade or Master Tier Fracs or running a Havoc team vs a Full Zerg is more skill based.

There has been a good deal of ongoing discussion around this topic. I would strongly recommend posting these kinds of comments in the larger thread, located at

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/A-Suggestion-For-Raids/page/10#post6414660

And be prepared – there is a lot of passion in the community regarding this topic. Do not let anyone browbeat you into passive acceptance of the status quo if you find the status quo lacking (and people will try). There are a good number of players who see a significant need for tiered difficulty.

And, if a mod sees this, this thread should definitely be merged with the one linked above.

The OP has probably not read the other topics here because this post was originally on the general forums and moved here soon after. I don’t believe they should move everything back here, it just fuels the echo chamber we already have. Specially the topics regarding balance and rewards, I think they are too general to wound up here for the usual people to keep putting in the same usual posts.

Timo.1065:

Why Arena don’t want to make easier mode, which don’t need meta builds.

Raids don’t need meta builds. Most people just want to make raids as fast and easy as possible.

All raids have been done with much less than 10 players, Vale Guardian has even be done with 3. Why should non meta build/gear make raids impossible?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/56mmnk/trio_vale_guardian_by_sc/

tbh as the hardest content in the game it should require you to have a build that is up on par with the dificulty of the content you want to clear if you could just walk i n there with a build that does not do the absolute best your class can you would just be a weight to your group honestly even if you are an amazing power engi i would still consider the condi engi first and then take a look at you because its more proven that it works.
Also if yo could tag the easy mode with what everbuild you wanted and then try and go to a tier that requires specific combs with specified builds and classes that is way to big of a dificulty diffrence for it to be eligible as a good training ground for raids (tbh atm the nightmare fractal is by far the best training ground you can have if you are interested in raids and it seems thats the road anet wants you to go.

zealex.9410:

tbh as the hardest content in the game it should require you to have a build that is up on par with the dificulty of the content you want to clear

Oh, and here i thought it was about skill, not builds.

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

tbh as the hardest content in the game it should require you to have a build that is up on par with the dificulty of the content you want to clear

Oh, and here i thought it was about skill, not builds.

Generally speaking, buildcrafting and understanding group comp is part of “skill”

Unless you’re in the “twitch reflexes is the only thing that should matter” camp.

Sadly you were dead out the gate with being Engi…we aren’t "wanted’ anymore, period. And that’s what has been mentioned here to read in other threads, the balance is out of whack when it comes to raids. They are hard, to a point, and should be and should stay that way. What needs to change is the mentality of the “meta” being the end all of a group, meta or go home sort of thing. If that doesn’t change threads like this will keep popping up but it wont help sadly, it will just give us all more to cut and paste.

" honestly even if you are an amazing power engi i would still consider the condi engi first and then take a look at you because its more proven that it works."
And that right there is a fair call, and that’s what needs to be said to people. You’re an Engi, no problem, but we need you to run condi? Shouldn’t be an issue with any Engi worth his salt. Its the flat out refusing to take a class based on its class alone that sucks. people need to be flexible to a degree, that’s only fair. Just don’t exclude the class itself.

And as for ANET reading all these posts….yea, I reckon they do but its been suggested that a lot of them get moved to reddit as that’s is where ANET seems to hang.

Engi is jack of all trades and he should offer condi dps and power dps. Big effort and still nobody want him in raids. Engis like me changing traits specialy for each boss, gear, consumables.… we putting heavy effort to get in raids-and we are in " meta " so… somebody should be happy if he can join with his class – not choosen build..

If you want to do raids, you need to be willing to have your gear and build and even class dictated to you for the betterment of the particular group you’re in. If you’re a masterful Engineer player, power Engineer is pretty legit and can substitute for a Thief or non-supporting DPS class, but people aren’t very familiar with it and bad Engineer players are a lot more common so they likely won’t allow it. You’re better off moving that ascended gear to a Thief and going into training runs as a DPS class. Alternatively, do what everyone else here suggested and find a guild who’s willing to see how you fare on power Engineer. Good luck!

You shouldn’t complain about the difficulty of raids but the lack of balance.

Also no DPS meter or any other stats: “every ele > every engie” and “200 LIs > 0 LIs”

Timo.1065:

Why Arena don’t want to make easier mode, which don’t need meta builds.

Current raids don’t require meta builds in order to complete them. If you make them easier still it doesn’t require meta builds in order to complete them. Though people want to clear the bosses in the most efficient way so there is always a kind of meta, with the current raids, but also with the easier raids if Anet introduces them.

Having a meta build doesn’t say anything about the person as a player, someone running not a meta build can achieve higher DPS (or better support) just because it is a better player with a better rotation. Pugs are kind of dumb and stupid and think someone with meta build runs it in a perfect way and there is nothing better. The problem is not with the difficulty of the raids, but it is within the people playing the content that are incompetent.

Do yourself a favor, just do Fractals/PVP/WvW. Raids in this game is just not worth it. Unless your going for the legendary armor, which tells everyone, your nothing but a PVE’er and you needed 9 other ppl to carry you thru “hard” content.

Hirasaki.6208:

Do yourself a favor, just do Fractals/PVP/WvW. Raids in this game is just not worth it. Unless your going for the legendary armor, which tells everyone, your nothing but a PVE’er and you needed 9 other ppl to carry you thru “hard” content.

You are either a troll or seriously dumb.

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

tbh as the hardest content in the game it should require you to have a build that is up on par with the dificulty of the content you want to clear

Oh, and here i thought it was about skill, not builds.

sure if you have the skill you can be good with everybuild but withmeta build for some classes the skill required to be effective and usefull grows smaller but in general you dont need meta build as the top guilds have proven with their lowmans and salt with their filthy 10 ele clears

Chris McSwag.4683:

Because 90% of the game is “press 1 to win” already.
Raids are meant to be hard and should remain that way. It is therefore up to players to practice(can always make own group), wipe a bunch of times, and eventually conquer the content. The question about different said difficulties have been dealt with 3647485635 times on this forum already(more specifically the raid sub forum) and there is no point of discussing it more.

PS, none of the raid bosses require strict meta as long as people have a clue what they are doing

Because the BS precious Meta excludes whole classes from raiding, take Necro for example a class that arguably has a higher percentage of player than most classes except for Warriors, but because of shoddy class balancing and dev design flavours we’re left with a class like Necro that brings nothing to the table.

With that in mind yes we need teired difficulty content so that unwanted classes like Necro can actually play the game they paid for how they want to play it (remember that good old quip, play how you want to play?).

Hirasaki.6208:

Do yourself a favor, just do Fractals/PVP/WvW. Raids in this game is just not worth it. Unless your going for the legendary armor, which tells everyone, your nothing but a PVE’er and you needed 9 other ppl to carry you thru “hard” content.

I support some of this sentiment, Raiding was designed as an exclusionary activity that thumbs its nose at the soul of this game, the only way to ever make this right is to make a story mode Raid that offers rewards equivalent to lower level Fractals but offers a small minuscule Chance at ascended chests and insights just like lower level Fractals chance for higher level rewards, have the same weekly lock out as well.

Timo.1065:

I’m new player, few day ago I made my first full ascended gear. Just after that I wanted to try myself in raids. I prepared myself by watching tactic on YT.

My guild don’t play raids, so I used LGF tools. I’m playing full berserk gear on Engi.
Guess what, i can’t find group to make first wing. I found one team, I showed my gear on chat, and just after that I got few opinion about meta, ect.

I understand all this things about build perfect team compilation. Getting meta healers, meta condi damage, meta tank. But in that way I have no chance to play this content, unlock masteries, practice in killing the bosses.

So, you made the effort to get find out what gear is demanded by PuG’s doing raids, you made the effort to learn the tactics used to deal with mechanics, but did not make the effort to learn what professions are demanded in the PUG meta. You obviously understand that PuG groups are going to make demands of those they include. Why stop after two out of three?

Timo.1065:

Prizes for killing bosses in raid are very good. But that is not the only reason people want to play raids. Why Arena don’t want to make easier mode, which don’t need meta builds.

To begin with, the raids can, by-and-large, be completed by teams that deviate from the meta. Some PuG groups (perhaps most, but who knows) choose not to because they can and because they believe that it both gives them a better chance to succeed and also finish faster. Even if ANet decided to do an easier mode, we’d still see PuG groups making demands and excluding people.

Timo.1065:

Lest start to teach players how to move in fight with all bosses. I’m sure that players will participate more often in easier rids for lower prices than now. They would like to learn about fight mechanics, and do all content in game.

According to ANet, there are easier and harder raid encounters already (VG or Escort vs. Matthias, for instance). That’s their chosen approach to make raids more approachable. If you cannot get a non-meta group for the easier encounters, well, that should say something about meta-based exclusion being a “human choice” thing rather than a “needed to beat challenge” thing. Even were ANet to make easy-mode versions of raid bosses, I think you’d find that there would still be meta-based exclusion. How do I know? GW2 had much easier instanced boss encounters for years before raids came along, and there was plenty of meta-based exclusion there.

Raids don’t need an easy mode for non-meta players. You can clear raids as they are now without meta builds. If you can’t find a group to accept you as a power engi, make your own group and lead it.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Because the BS precious Meta excludes whole classes from raiding, take Necro for example a class that arguably has a higher percentage of player than most classes except for Warriors, but because of shoddy class balancing and dev design flavours we’re left with a class like Necro that brings nothing to the table.

Tbh I think you can make at least one spot for condi necro (and even justify it rationally) in pretty much every raid encounter with the exception of KC.

Projectile protection, extra AoE dmg with epi, additional meatshields through minion spawning, very good and easy CC, easy survivability, party buffing with vampiric aura and saving people with transfusion.
Some time ago I watched as our group DPS improved significantly when we replaced two eles in our group for two necros. Even though eles have theoretically much higher DPS, fact remains that very few people have the intelectual capacity to play them or switch to encounter-appropriate builds. They just copypaste the build from metabattle and then brainafk while spamming autoattack, ocassionally using other skills with no thought being put into the rotation whatsoever.
This means, in practice, classes like necro or thief will pull off significantly better DPS than eles because they’re simpler to play. Necro also has the benefit of lowering the overall pressure on your group, which can help out casuals a lot.
It comes down to the skill and knowledge of individual players. But I can almost guarantee you that for 90% of players (this includes 200+ LI players as many of them are leechers with very little skill anyway) if they switched from ele to a different profession, the raid would be going much smoother, and the DPS would be better.

As for the OP – I’m afraid your current situation cannot be helped. Since condi dmg plays important role in w1 (well, mostly just VG), it’s obvious that anyone looking for engis will be expecting condi builds, not power builds. Your situation becomes even worse considering you have no practical experience in raids and no (or very little) LI to ping to the group. I’d recommend that you make one of the most common builds instead (boonshare mes, ps war, healing druid or DPS ele). Even though you may not find the gameplay as enjoyable or you may perform better on your engi (because of the reasons I mentioned above), playing a common build will make it easier for you to find a group. People are already struggling to complete raids on their own, seeing new builds or styles of play can easily throw them off balance and make it even harder to just beat the encounters. You can have perfectly valid reasons for playing power engi, but very little portion of gw2 community would listen to reason.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

As for the OP – I’m afraid your current situation cannot be helped. Since condi dmg plays important role in w1 (well, mostly just VG), it’s obvious that anyone looking for engis will be expecting condi builds, not power builds. Your situation becomes even worse considering you have no practical experience in raids and no (or very little) LI to ping to the group. I’d recommend that you make one of the most common builds instead (boonshare mes, ps war, healing druid or DPS ele). Even though you may not find the gameplay as enjoyable or you may perform better on your engi (because of the reasons I mentioned above), playing a common build will make it easier for you to find a group. People are already struggling to complete raids on their own, seeing new builds or styles of play can easily throw them off balance and make it even harder to just beat the encounters. You can have perfectly valid reasons for playing power engi, but very little portion of gw2 community would listen to reason.

Sadly that’s the truth and its not playing what you like but more playing what you HAVE TO, which just isn’t cool. I stopped raiding for that very reason. Maybe in future the mentality or builds will change but the way it is now its like telling a tank to come as healer even though they have no clue cuz that’s what everyone wants.