Guild Wars 2

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

but how else could I possibly survive? there’s no trinity to saaaaaave meeeeee

According to some people, stacking trivialises everything and disables attacks.

Therefore, the logical solution is to stack.

(c wut i did ther)

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

but how else could I possibly survive? there’s no trinity to saaaaaave meeeeee

Believe in clerics!

Lindbur.2537:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

but how else could I possibly survive? there’s no trinity to saaaaaave meeeeee

According to some people, stacking trivialises everything and disables attacks.

Therefore, the logical solution is to stack.

(c wut i did ther)

Yes but that’s an exploit, when you range you have to be aware of your surroundings while you run backwards in a circle, that takes skill!

Whirlwind attack facing a wall is an exploit! Here we have it folks! The stupidity has reached a new level. Maybe ban every warrior that uses Whirwild attack while beeing immobilzed too?
Maybe ban every other skill that deals more damage than say 20k aswell?
I mean the mobs die way to fast.
The spider queen isn’t even blocked from moving in that corner. The whole point is to limit the players in your group from going out of melee range. If you don’t have a guard you will actually have to MOVE when she does her spray unless you are a warrior, since her attacks will KILL you FAST.

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lindbur.2537:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

but how else could I possibly survive? there’s no trinity to saaaaaave meeeeee

According to some people, stacking trivialises everything and disables attacks.

Therefore, the logical solution is to stack.

(c wut i did ther)

Yes but that’s an exploit, when you range you have to be aware of your surroundings while you run backwards in a circle, that takes skill!

Scratch that I’m standing five miles away!

Lindbur.2537:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lindbur.2537:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

but how else could I possibly survive? there’s no trinity to saaaaaave meeeeee

According to some people, stacking trivialises everything and disables attacks.

Therefore, the logical solution is to stack.

(c wut i did ther)

Yes but that’s an exploit, when you range you have to be aware of your surroundings while you run backwards in a circle, that takes skill!

Scratch that I’m standing five miles away!

Oh like a longbow ranger with the increased range trait wailing on Alphard?

I want this to be an exploit to! Add that to the list! You outrange her pulls and you can easily sidestep her attacks on that range, ban and fix please.

Agony.3542:

Whirlwind attack facing a wall is an exploit! Here we have it folks! The stupidity has reached a new level. Maybe ban every warrior that uses Whirwild attack while beeing immobilzed too?
Maybe ban every other skill that deals more damage than say 20k aswell?
I mean the mobs die way to fast.
The spider queen isn’t even blocked from moving in that corner. The whole point is to limit the players in your group from going out of melee range. If you don’t have a guard you will actually have to MOVE when she does her spray unless you are a warrior, since her attacks will KILL you FAST.

While we’re banning warriors using WW, let’s also ban dodging against a wall… I mean, how is that even physically possible? It totally destroys my immersion.

yayuuu.9420:

Silberfisch.3046:

We could argue that this should not be the default way as opposed to actually exploring a dungeon. But that only works the first few times and then prople will try and speed it up because once the novelty of exploration has worn off most people will do it for the rewards.
And I would hazard a guess that the majority of the playerbase has moved to the second stage so they will try to save time. Which will make stacking/skipping to a certain degree the default. Simply defined by the majority of the players.
I’ll admit this is also an assumption. And feel free to point this out to me as I have done with yours.

I did COE p3 run without stacking and only me and one guardian survived subject alpha. I was in party with players, who did this dungeon many times already, but with stacking. If you were right, they would be experienced enought to survive without stacking. After that I have asked them and they have never done it without stacking (the guardian too).

I would hazard a guess, that majority of the playerbase have never done dungeons without stacking and that they just mindlessly repeat what other players have showed them. Most of them doesn’t even know about the true reasons why everyone is doing it in the corners and not in the middle of the room (FGS Fiery Rush exploit and some more).

It’s fun how you edited the quote. If you had quoted the full thing, you could have saved yourself most of your last paragraph. To remind you:

The only thing I can get behind is the notion that a ccertain amount of skipping and stacking is the default way people do dungeons. Even if it is quite often executed in a way that actually makes it more dangerous or time consuming because people either aren’t experienced enough at it or have seen it elsewhere an do it for the entirely wrong reasons.
We could argue that this should not be the default way as opposed to actually exploring a dungeon. But that only works the first few times and then prople will try and speed it up because once the novelty of exploration has worn off most people will do it for the rewards.
And I would hazard a guess that the majority of the playerbase has moved to the second stage so they will try to save time. Which will make stacking/skipping to a certain degree the default. Simply defined by the majority of the players.
I’ll admit this is also an assumption. And feel free to point this out to me as I have done with yours.

A prime example is Kohler. A lot of people LoS him behind the pillar next to the ramp like rubble wall piece. True it’s easy to back him into that corner but it will also most likely kill most of your group if you run squishy builds/equipment because due to the camera angle and effect storm in that corner you’ll have a hard time to see the telegraph of his pull. So neither dodging nor reflecting the pull will work because you’ll never see it coming. And most professions simply won’t suvive the whirlwind attack if they aren’t geared for toughness/vitality.
Stacking how it should not be done.

Another example I like to use is Alphard. Since you can no longer reflect the scorpion wire, you’ll have to dodge it to avoid instant downs for a lot of party members. It has a clear tell and unless you have the worst of an effect storm (guardian flames hooray) you can see and dodge it. But it makes stacking acutally more risky at that point because more people have to time their dogde properly. It’s still the quickest and most efficient way to kill him though if executed correctly. (For all those people who think stacking is always easymode.)
Also Alphard is a prime example why LOSing can’t possibly be an exploit. Try to fight Alphard without hiding behind the crates during his dagger storm. You’ll quickly realize what I mean.
Of course some classes can simply outrange him and use extreme range to avoid his attacks, but really how is stacking and LoSing against a mob an exploit but negating him any avenue of attack by outranging him isn’t?
Edit: Btw. in my book neither of those three are actually an exploit. Unless you do it to glitch out the boss in some way.

Plus I try to avoid to use single examples as representation of a whole. How many times have you done CoE p3 with stacking Alpha wheneverything worked out fine? As compared to the one example where stacking did not work?
And the next question would be, why did it not work? Failed dodge timing? People not freed from crystals fast enough because that actually works better in a stack? Teeth of Primordus hitting those trying to stack or causing them to run out of endurance for other dodges because people not meleeing him provoked those?
All those are likely possibilities and at least one of those maybe even two were actually provoked by not stacking.

noobgood.8762:

Agony.3542:

Whirlwind attack facing a wall is an exploit! Here we have it folks! The stupidity has reached a new level. Maybe ban every warrior that uses Whirwild attack while beeing immobilzed too?
Maybe ban every other skill that deals more damage than say 20k aswell?
I mean the mobs die way to fast.
The spider queen isn’t even blocked from moving in that corner. The whole point is to limit the players in your group from going out of melee range. If you don’t have a guard you will actually have to MOVE when she does her spray unless you are a warrior, since her attacks will KILL you FAST.

While we’re banning warriors using WW, let’s also ban dodging against a wall… I mean, how is that even physically possible? It totally destroys my immersion.

Hmm I think you’re on to something but we need to go a step further and remove dodging all together. How does a half cartwheel dodge anything? Talk about breaking immersion! If they get rid of dodging or at the very least significantly reduce the number of dodges a player has access to then players wouldn’t be able to stack in zerker gear, they’d have to use clerics to support each other.

MastaNeenja.1537:

Hmm I think you’re on to something but we need to go a step further and remove dodging all together. How does a half cartwheel dodge anything? Talk about breaking immersion! If they get rid of dodging or at the very least significantly reduce the number of dodges a player has access to then players wouldn’t be able to stack in zerker gear, they’d have to use clerics to support each other.

I like the sarcasm in this one.

The best part is that both these arguments, when made by the anti-stacking fraction – and actually meant that way – are negated by other parts of the anti-stacking fractiong.

The “I’m all about active play so I’m against stacking”-faction should rebuke this proposal vehemently. How is limiting dodges promoting active play?

Also: If you talk clerics to support each other, you are talking heling abilities. But oh no! 85% of those work with a rather limited range on them, pretty often only melee range. So unless you huddle up, supporting each other won’t really work. And by huddle up I mean stacking.
Sooo, not helpfull when arguing against stacking.

And just to be clear again: I got the sarcasm, I just couldn’t resist to add my 2 cents.

Not to mention that healing up damage taken and providing perma protection isn’t really what I would call "active play.
Granted you run the “right” composition you can easily afk bosses, probably even bot whole dungeon paths by using the right equipment/weapons (our no dodge arah p2 is just the cup of the cake)

Your answer about skipping from a year ago.

Nokaru.7831:

Your answer about skipping from a year ago.

Hrouda is wise as always.

I think I am gonna just book mark this link and post it every time I see one of these threads.

Agony.3542:

Lindbur.2537:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lindbur.2537:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

And again, so bosses should do melee attacks on players when they range too because that’s an obvious exploit.

but how else could I possibly survive? there’s no trinity to saaaaaave meeeeee

According to some people, stacking trivialises everything and disables attacks.

Therefore, the logical solution is to stack.

(c wut i did ther)

Yes but that’s an exploit, when you range you have to be aware of your surroundings while you run backwards in a circle, that takes skill!

Scratch that I’m standing five miles away!

Oh like a longbow ranger with the increased range trait wailing on Alphard?

I want this to be an exploit to! Add that to the list! You outrange her pulls and you can easily sidestep her attacks on that range, ban and fix please.

<- last on ban list

Silberfisch.3046:

How many times have you done CoE p3 with stacking Alpha wheneverything worked out fine? As compared to the one example where stacking did not work?
And the next question would be, why did it not work? Failed dodge timing? People not freed from crystals fast enough because that actually works better in a stack? Teeth of Primordus hitting those trying to stack or causing them to run out of endurance for other dodges because people not meleeing him provoked those?
All those are likely possibilities and at least one of those maybe even two were actually provoked by not stacking.

I never did it with stacking. As a stack-hater, I would rather leave party than stack.

Well the fact that designer can actually make mobs don’t lose aggro, and he doesn’t really grinds my gears. I mean,why not make reasonable mobs that aren’t with short term memory and forget in seconds that a band of heroes just lurked by them? Game would be much more fun and challenging anyway. Add to that a significant increase in the reward at the end, and voila : people don’t skip dungeon mobs anymore.

Boss fights ( a few examples)
In HOTW most of them are low dps and don’t put too much of a threat in players, though they take a looong time to kill. At least make them a bit more thrilling.
In AC:
Spider Queen needs to just be allowed to cast aoes even when players are in melee range. A smart spider queen would do that, and all of the sudden exploiters are dead.
Kholer and his minions, maybe some mechanic that will trigger when people stack. If it will amplify the damage, then it will be curtains for stackers/exploiters.
For final boss in path 3 really it’s so easy without stacking and exploiting that Idk why zerkers bother with it. Put some rocks to fall everywhere, that will take care of them.
Furnace, Caudecus, Twilight Arbor, Crucible of eternity are ok dungeons and so far I didn’t have groups that wanted to exploit. Or when they did want, they saw it’s not needed and they played normally. Citadel of flame is pretty easy dungeon, and people still use exploits. Make it harder?! Yes, why not? Make it more challenging.

So if this changes would take place, I guess many people that posted on this thread will be happy and many ( exploiters I look at you) will rage and whine on how cruel life is and that they need to play the game. Also more people will learn to play right and the success rate on the new Wurm and on Tequatl will increase drastically.

yayuuu.9420:

Silberfisch.3046:

How many times have you done CoE p3 with stacking Alpha wheneverything worked out fine? As compared to the one example where stacking did not work?
And the next question would be, why did it not work? Failed dodge timing? People not freed from crystals fast enough because that actually works better in a stack? Teeth of Primordus hitting those trying to stack or causing them to run out of endurance for other dodges because people not meleeing him provoked those?
All those are likely possibilities and at least one of those maybe even two were actually provoked by not stacking.

I never did it with stacking. As a stack-hater, I would rather leave party than stack.

That answers my first question, but not the others as to why the stacking people died. But to prevent digressing even further, I’ll go back to the original problem:

Given your example, I have to ask, when 3 or even 4 people attempt to stack, why didn’t you leave, if you hate stacking so much?
Why try and impose your playstyle on the majority of the group who were about to do it differently?
And this ultimately is the problem I had with the OP as well: Why not make your own group with a simple “no stacking” and/or “no skipping” tag?
Unless you believe you won’t get enough interested players, there’s no reason not to.
In your example, you’re even worse than the OP by far.
Instead you try to force other people to come around and play the way you want opposed as to the way they want.

Just find likeminded people. Let those that wish to skip and stack do so. And play with those that share the same philosophy as you. Problem solved.

And before you say that people force you to play their style. Well speedclears will always skip/stack, so don’t join them so no ones forcing you to do anything.
And a group that doesn’t advertise their intentions in the lfg tag? Ask them before the dungeon starts what they intend to do.
If they want to skip/stack ask politely if they would consider to do it a different way. If the general consensus is “no” then do as you stated: leave the group and look for another.
We’re talking about a group of people here and the only sensible way with 5 total strangers is a majority vote about how to do things. And if you can’t abide by the result of that vote then there is no place for you in that particular group.
Otherwise it will most likely degenerate into a very unenjoyable experience for everyone.

Victor.8327:

Well the fact that designer can actually make mobs don’t lose aggro, and he doesn’t really grinds my gears. I mean,why not make reasonable mobs that aren’t with short term memory and forget in seconds that a band of heroes just lurked by them? Game would be much more fun and challenging anyway. Add to that a significant increase in the reward at the end, and voila : people don’t skip dungeon mobs anymore.

Please do this, I’ll finally be able to dust off my thief and get another legendary.

Victor.8327:

Boss fights ( a few examples)
In HOTW most of them are low dps and don’t put too much of a threat in players, though they take a looong time to kill. At least make them a bit more thrilling.

Agreed.

Victor.8327:

In AC:
Spider Queen needs to just be allowed to cast aoes even when players are in melee range. A smart spider queen would do that, and all of the sudden exploiters are dead.

Everyone MUST range this boss! Not play how I want, play how you want!

Victor.8327:

Kholer and his minions, maybe some mechanic that will trigger when people stack. If it will amplify the damage, then it will be curtains for stackers/exploiters.

Come friends, grab your trusty rifles and stalwart scepters, we shall unite against this boss from the longest range possible! Oh my god! He is running towards me! He is swinging his sword at me! Wait what, I’m dead? Wtf? Wow, my combat log says I was killed by anti-exploiter protection, wtf anet!!!??

Victor.8327:

For final boss in path 3 really it’s so easy without stacking and exploiting that Idk why zerkers bother with it. Put some rocks to fall everywhere, that will take care of them.

You know that there is actually an NPC that blocks the falling rocks that also stands in melee range, right?

Victor.8327:

So if this changes would take place, I guess many people that posted on this thread will be happy and many ( exploiters I look at you) will rage and whine on how cruel life is and that they need to play the game. Also more people will learn to play right and the success rate on the new Wurm and on Tequatl will increase drastically.

No, these “exploiters” will adapt to the next best thing: quitting the game because of the idiotic catering to the forum warriors.

It’s ironic how those threads end up here, being skipped and ignored by any potential dev who could read it.

Victor.8327:

Harper, I did AC hundreds of times and other dungeons aswell, though I still go without stacking/exploiting or without skipping. It’s because I just like the gameplay.
If you want quick gold please buy it via gemstore. Or learn how to gain it through other methods.
If the gameplay is not to your liking there are other games out there . Exploiting the game is no excuse.

Fror, it should attack everyone, as in no stacking/exploiting combat, everyone is affected by it. Defending an exploit is useless, same as telling lies to yourself.

Hate to break it to you buddy but i’m NOT exploiting the game.
I’m just playing it in a way that is less difficult. Anet have stated this is not an exploit and skipping mobs and speed clearing is an option ANYONE is free to take.

You don’t like it? Form your own parties and just play with your own people. Stop trying to push your ideas onto other people.

Here’s a thought – if this really was exploiting – don’t you think it would have been fixed by now?

Look at the Ember farming in Cursed Shore – that was taken down VERY fast.
Other similar situations have been resolved within a week of discovery.

But the fact that no such thing has happened here for almost a year and a half from release should give you a clue as to how Anet sees this.

I’m getting tired of all the " it’s an exploit because I say it is " people.
Seriously – play however you want and leave other people alone.

yayuuu.9420:

Harper.4173:

Because I need the gold. I couldn’t care less about the dungeons that I do at the moment – i’ve done them so many times I can draw them from memory complete with encounters and dialogue.
I want to go in -get the gold – get out asap. And I’m not the only one.

Do you realise, that all the materials on trading post, legendary weapons and everything that you can buy is more expensive because you can earn gold faster?
If everyone was doing it slower (for example 1 run per 30 minutes instead of 1 run per 10 minutes), there would be 1/3 of the current gold in the game and prices would be 3 times lower.

You said, that you want to get gold asap and get out of the dungeon, but is it that you want to get gold just to have high numbers in your wallet? or you want to actually buy something? The amount of time to get something is more or less constant. You can do dungeons faster, but when other players can also do it faster, the gold looses its value.

One more thing, what is the other source of gold in the game? Selling stuff to NPC? I bet that is not the source of major part of the gold in the game. Dungeons daily reward! (No, selling stuff, like exotics or sigils, on trading post is not the source of the gold, because you don’t produce more gold into the game but just move the gold from one player to another).

Me doing it or not is not going to influence the overall trend of the player base.
If you think that if you stop speedclearing others will too you are naive.

Also TP inflation doesn’t happen because of speed clears – it happens because in this game you PRODUCE gold and don’t LOSE it – except for very specific gold sinks.

The amount of time it takes to get something is NOT constant. You can dungeon speed clear easy 30 gold per day. You couldn’t do that before.
look at this : http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/31068
constant price – i can buy it faster now if i speed clear.

I still think the best way to handle skipping is to leave things as they are now, but make silver mobs drop 2-4 Dragonite Ore each when killed, guaranteed. That way if you want to skip, great, but if you need Dragonite (like many dungeon players do), you could clear the entire path for some killer meaningful loot that doesn’t invoke inflation or any of those other economical troubles.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I still think the best way to handle skipping is to leave things as they are now, but make silver mobs drop 2-4 Dragonite Ore each when killed, guaranteed. That way if you want to skip, great, but if you need Dragonite (like many dungeon players do), you could clear the entire path for some killer meaningful loot that doesn’t invoke inflation or any of those other economical troubles.

Tbh at this point im for anything that gives dragonite ore in dungeons… I need it so bad but cant stand meta farming ;_;

Delay.6908:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I still think the best way to handle skipping is to leave things as they are now, but make silver mobs drop 2-4 Dragonite Ore each when killed, guaranteed. That way if you want to skip, great, but if you need Dragonite (like many dungeon players do), you could clear the entire path for some killer meaningful loot that doesn’t invoke inflation or any of those other economical troubles.

Tbh at this point im for anything that gives dragonite ore in dungeons… I need it so bad but cant stand meta farming ;_;

And I’m throwing away dragonite ore ;( I’ve spent too much time doing marionette and tequatl…

Also – regarding the issue of “more challenge”.

Up until recently there was a skip you could do in Sorrow’s Embrace path 3 that allowed you to circumvent a good portion of mobs and generally cut down dungeon path time by quite a lot.

People did that path – and you would frequently see groups forming for Sorrow’s P1+P3.

A few patches ago that skip has been fixed – do you know what happened?
No more P3 runs in SE. I’ve done the dungeon multiple times since then and not only have I not been able to get P3 groups together( at first i didn’t even know why), one group disbanded when they saw the skip was gone.
Nor have I seen any other P3 groups forming that I could join.

Do you know what this means? People don’t want more challenging content.

So yes – I think Anet would like their content to be skipped through by experienced players instead of it not being played at all.

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding the issue of “more challenge”.

Up until recently there was a skip you could do in Sorrow’s Embrace path 3 that allowed you to circumvent a good portion of mobs and generally cut down dungeon path time by quite a lot.

People did that path – and you would frequently see groups forming for Sorrow’s P1+P3.

A few patches ago that skip has been fixed – do you know what happened?
No more P3 runs in SE. I’ve done the dungeon multiple times since then and not only have I not been able to get P3 groups together( at first i didn’t even know why), one group disbanded when they saw the skip was gone.
Nor have I seen any other P3 groups forming that I could join.

Do you know what this means? People don’t want more challenging content.

So yes – I think Anet would like their content to be skipped through by experienced players instead of it not being played at all.

Here’s a thought. If they upped the difficulty of all the dungeons, would people still do them? I’m talking all the dungeon’s brought up to the point that the average player couldn’t hope to run Glass and expect to win, all in one patch. (Personally I think the fact that everything that isn’t melee goes or damage oriented is undervalued because the game’s too easy)(Not an exploit, just way easier then it should be. The rewards there but the risk isn’t)

I just did fractal and rolled dredge and leader rage quit right after he rolled dredge and kicked everyone out.

The reason I’m saying it is, no one is doing dungeon any more. They are farming.

The the obvious solution to fix dungeon is just make it harder. So people can’t QQ about how the content is so trivial.

But when you make it harder, the community is like “ya no newbie, 80 only”. And newbie just whine about how no one want them in the party.

As someone who still enjoys the dungeons in this game and is not an elitist I’ll say this, IMO there’s nothing wrong with stacking. Especially in PUGs it is an easy way for everyone to stay in melee range and to eliminate some obvious mistakes like dodging too far out and triggering a range attack. However, on most bosses you can melee you don’t necessarily have to LoS to make the stacking mechanics work. In melee, you don’t get ranged attacks and at range you don’t get melee attacks, it’s that simple. All not LoSing does is leave more room for error, which would be frustrating in EU pugs when you’re running with frenchies or germans and make some attacks like FGS 4 and WWA unusable.

The spider queen is always the obvious choice of people advocating against stacking, but to be fair, ALL that stack does is that people don’t have to kill off the gargoyle heads. You can perfectly melee her in open space with the whole group and get the same effect as long as you don’t move. Or is meleeing now also exploiting? As for doing it the “proper” way, meaning ranged then I guess, how much harder is that? You have to walk out of big circles on the ground and have some condi removal. All that does is make the fight longer, not more interesting or challenging.

Recently me and a couple of guildies started a coordinated speedrun group. I must say, it’s refreshing and fun to play it that way. Trying to keep the 25 might, vuln, and fury up at all times, finding the best spots to kill bosses. This way we actually all need to learn our class, need to learn the boss encounters and not just put on PVT gear and face tanking everything without any real awareness of the fight.

About skipping… I don’t mind obviously, it’s killing the same mob over and over again for 30min+ so I don’t really get the problem here. I assume everyone who hates them either roleplays (in which case they’re in a roleplay guild and should have no problem finding people) or just haven’t done the dungeon very often. My god, if I had to kill all those illusionists, mages, hunters and eles in arah daily I’d just give up on the dungeon as a whole… How boring is that? I mean seriously…

You know what would happen if they made the trash mobs drop good rewards? People would kill the first few trash mobs, restart the instance, kill the first few again, etc etc. This is the exact reason why those mobs don’t drop good loot in the first place and because they can’t drop good loot, the devs opted to make them skippable instead of destroying all interest in dungeons as a whole.

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding the issue of “more challenge”.

Up until recently there was a skip you could do in Sorrow’s Embrace path 3 that allowed you to circumvent a good portion of mobs and generally cut down dungeon path time by quite a lot.

People did that path – and you would frequently see groups forming for Sorrow’s P1+P3.

A few patches ago that skip has been fixed – do you know what happened?
No more P3 runs in SE. I’ve done the dungeon multiple times since then and not only have I not been able to get P3 groups together( at first i didn’t even know why), one group disbanded when they saw the skip was gone.
Nor have I seen any other P3 groups forming that I could join.

Do you know what this means? People don’t want more challenging content.

So yes – I think Anet would like their content to be skipped through by experienced players instead of it not being played at all.

Oh come on, you run till you’re allmost at the first boss, pop some reflects and the bombers kill themselves. Almost every PUG knows this by now and do the path often.

cranos.5913:

[…]

Oh come on, you run till you’re allmost at the first boss, pop some reflects and the bombers kill themselves. Almost every PUG knows this by now and do the path often.

I think Harper refers to another fix than the pipe jumping before the first boss.

After the first boss most skip groups I encountered jumped down to the spiders, crossed the bridge, banked hard left and walked along a very slim ledge, jumped down to the ramp with the destroyer patrol and circled back up to attack the boss with the fire circles directly, ignoring the mobs on the ramp after the bridge and the bridge fight itself.
That ledge is no longer traversable as far as I know.
So you’ll either have to do the bridge fight and the mobs afterwards before the boss or you might still try to run straight past all those mobs, past the boss and circle counter clockwise down the ramp you usually come up to shake the mobs. I’ve never tried the latter, so I can’t actually answer wether that works or not. But even if it does work it makes the part you have to skip much longer and the risk of someone going down or dying trying to do so is much greater.

If you want to do a no-trash skipping dungeon, go to the Aetherblade path in Twilight Arbor. That’s fun; right guys?

If you don’t like stacking, then do most bosses in Fractals. Are all of you guys that are complaining about this stuff doing this riveting, engaging non-stacking, no-skipping content?

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding the issue of “more challenge”.

Up until recently there was a skip you could do in Sorrow’s Embrace path 3 that allowed you to circumvent a good portion of mobs and generally cut down dungeon path time by quite a lot.

People did that path – and you would frequently see groups forming for Sorrow’s P1+P3.

A few patches ago that skip has been fixed – do you know what happened?
No more P3 runs in SE. I’ve done the dungeon multiple times since then and not only have I not been able to get P3 groups together( at first i didn’t even know why), one group disbanded when they saw the skip was gone.
Nor have I seen any other P3 groups forming that I could join.

Do you know what this means? People don’t want more challenging content.

So yes – I think Anet would like their content to be skipped through by experienced players instead of it not being played at all.

You must either be incredibly impatient or not being truthful. Right after patch my waits even at 2 AM later increased by 2 minutes at best. Currently its about the same time to LFG. Also you can still skip everything that matters. You can still run around the first baricade on the left side and not even break them (skipping the mobs). Sure they got rid of the JP to the first boss, but the bombers are easy, just run through then LOS them on a corner. You can even stack on the stairs for the first boss+adds instead of ranging from the gear. You can still drop down to the ledge and run past the spiders, jump over the barrier, run across the ledge above the destroyers ect to get to the 2nd boss. The only thing that changed is you need to jump over the right side instead of left, or spend 1.3 seconds to burst a single barricade away to run through the mobs. None of the patches actually changed anything important to the run.

Dual.8953:

Harper.4173:

Also – regarding the issue of “more challenge”.

Up until recently there was a skip you could do in Sorrow’s Embrace path 3 that allowed you to circumvent a good portion of mobs and generally cut down dungeon path time by quite a lot.

People did that path – and you would frequently see groups forming for Sorrow’s P1+P3.

A few patches ago that skip has been fixed – do you know what happened?
No more P3 runs in SE. I’ve done the dungeon multiple times since then and not only have I not been able to get P3 groups together( at first i didn’t even know why), one group disbanded when they saw the skip was gone.
Nor have I seen any other P3 groups forming that I could join.

Do you know what this means? People don’t want more challenging content.

So yes – I think Anet would like their content to be skipped through by experienced players instead of it not being played at all.

Here’s a thought. If they upped the difficulty of all the dungeons, would people still do them? I’m talking all the dungeon’s brought up to the point that the average player couldn’t hope to run Glass and expect to win, all in one patch. (Personally I think the fact that everything that isn’t melee goes or damage oriented is undervalued because the game’s too easy)(Not an exploit, just way easier then it should be. The rewards there but the risk isn’t)

And why would people bother doing them if they became harder but the reward stayed the same?

I can understand doing the content 1-2 times for the challenge and for bragging rights – but why replay it?

There’s no point in doing AC in 30 minutes – you’re better off doing a champion farm or placing buy orders on the TP.

Yes – SOME people would still do them – but rarely and eventually it might even die out.
There are dungeon paths out there that people do ONCE and never go back to again ( SE P2, COF P3, Arah P4) – exactly because of the length of difficulty. Unless you put an insane of money at the end of them they’re not getting done.

The content IS hard enough – try doing dungeons with 5 inexperienced player that are undergeared. See how that goes.

You can’t make dungeons “harder” because people got better. It’s just silly.

cranos.5913:

Oh come on, you run till you’re allmost at the first boss, pop some reflects and the bombers kill themselves. Almost every PUG knows this by now and do the path often.

I’m not arguing what the skip was or how it worked – my question to you and others is this : is it better now that the dungeon path is dead?
Try getting the SE tokens you need now? – P2 and P3 aren’t getting done. So you’re stuck doing P1 for forever.

Edit : yes – it was a pipe thing – both at the start and closer to the end. Both are gone.

Nokaru.7831:

If you want to do a no-trash skipping dungeon, go to the Aetherblade path in Twilight Arbor. That’s fun; right guys?

If you don’t like stacking, then do most bosses in Fractals. Are all of you guys that are complaining about this stuff doing this riveting, engaging non-stacking, no-skipping content?

I’m doing fractals 2-3 times every day. Also doing Aetherblade path in TA from time to time. Other dungeons? rarely and only if I find non-stacking group.
So yes, it is fun, not like stack&spank.

Wait what, SE P3 is dead? Is this just a suprise for me as thief main?

Victor.8327:

Now I don’t have statistics on who is the majority here, the speed runners or the casuals. Even from these people that speed run I get positive feedback sometimes when I propose going casual with a dungeon. Of a late, there are more and more people that really got bored of speed-running. Also these runners when they see that they can go fast through a dungeon if 2-3 people are not with meta builds, and that skipping and stacking to save 4 minutes at best is useless, they change their mind sometimes. This player behavior proves that speed-runner are just badly informed people.

Now you here listen BloodArachnid2.0,
Casuals are most definitely the majority, hence the line “Anet caters to casuals” a concept which has driven away quite a large percentage of the hardcore players.

Oh and it is quite possible for two members to carry a party’s DPS, I should know, I used to PuG from time to time.

These supposed “speed runners” you’ve converted to casual slowpoke runs quite frankly… Aren’t speed runners.
Speed clearing is like an addiction, once you’ve tasted how smooth a run can go, how you can blitz dungeons in <10 min without a single player downing, once you’ve tasted that, there is no going back. And anyone who claims to prefer the incredibly boring forced trinity play in a game like this over speed clearing, is a liar, or someone who has never experienced a true speed run.

But hey what would I know? After all I am banned for exploiting

The hard truth that most of us have a hard time accepting is that Dungeons in GW2 are awful because of a series of design mistakes:

- Too many adds with too much health and too little reward from them (sloooow!)
- Buggy bosses, that can’t be CCed and have close to no tacts apart from telegraphed big attacks
- Mechanics for player buffs and raising a downed player encouraging stacking
- etc.

So in the end nearly all dungeon encounters are pull, stack, LoS and nuke with Zerk gear. I do it, you do it, they do it. It’s fast, easy and you get your loot/tokens and move on. It’s boring as hell and makes for mind-numbing PVE instances.

Truth is GW2 dungeons have close to no tacts and those who think they are good players for being able to nuke bosses in Zerk gear while stacked are fooling themselves.

Fractals perform better in terms of PVE instances tactics, but there are only so many times you can do them before you get bored senseless.

It’s a really big letdown for an otherwise very good game with wonderful open world zones and a very pleasant questing system.

But the awful dungeon design + the overflow fiesta that started with Teq and is being continued with new world bosses is really turning me off…

Zel

Why do I use CC against bosses? Are you telling me that was a complete waste of time?

Silberfisch.3046:

That ledge is no longer traversable as far as I know.

There’s still a little ledge you can run on, and if all else fails, just jump down to the platform and then down to where the destroyers are. That skip still works fine, I did it yesterday.

Harper.4173:

cranos.5913:

Oh come on, you run till you’re allmost at the first boss, pop some reflects and the bombers kill themselves. Almost every PUG knows this by now and do the path often.

I’m not arguing what the skip was or how it worked – my question to you and others is this : is it better now that the dungeon path is dead?
Try getting the SE tokens you need now? – P2 and P3 aren’t getting done. So you’re stuck doing P1 for forever.

Edit : yes – it was a pipe thing – both at the start and closer to the end. Both are gone.

As I said, the new work around is running in the middle path instead of to the right in the beginning until you’re almost at the boss, LoS them there and you can kill them. Any reflection trivializes that fight.

The only thing “nerfed” about the second skip is that you now need 1 second to destroy the barricade instead of jumping over it at the side. IMO this has proven to be safer in PUGs as they couldn’t jump over, got stuck and died all the time anyway.

In no way is SE p3 dead. I do it daily and almost never have any issues. If we do it’s because of a PUG running around like crazy at the first boss making him do his underground attack, one shotting everyone but never the skips. It’s one of the faster and easier paths in the game.

Harper.4173:

cranos.5913:

Oh come on, you run till you’re allmost at the first boss, pop some reflects and the bombers kill themselves. Almost every PUG knows this by now and do the path often.

I’m not arguing what the skip was or how it worked – my question to you and others is this : is it better now that the dungeon path is dead?
Try getting the SE tokens you need now? – P2 and P3 aren’t getting done. So you’re stuck doing P1 for forever.

Edit : yes – it was a pipe thing – both at the start and closer to the end. Both are gone.

3 is done all the time, you are either bad, impatient or a liar. After the nerf you are talking about groups just ran through the bombers then LoSed them at the end. The bridge barricade nerf can be bypassed by just taking 1 second to break a barricade or jumping through the right side instead of left. The left ledge skip is still there at that point. This path still is one of the shortest for pug farming and is trivially easy.

I gotta agree that SE3 is still done all the time on NA servers. Our guild typically has more then 5 each night wanting to do tours, so we split in to 2 or more 3+ guildies and pug the rest. We play from 4p-11p server time and have 0 problems finding anyone for SE13, CoF12, CoE123, AC123, Arah2, CM13, HotW1 TAfu. We probably wouldn’t have any issue with any other path if we put an LFG up for it.

After seeing a post like SE3 isn’t done anymore, which is an obvious lie if you play NA servers, it makes me want to LFG a no skip/stack party to see how fast it fills.

Mate me and my buddies do SE p1 in less then 6 min and se p3 in less then 8 hahaha. u just need to learn ur class and get a good group together. Stack and kill…….

The problem with this game is that its so easy, and ppl hardly take time to know their class, which makes me SAD. I wish they would make a few more dungeons that are challenging,, that keep u on your toes. If u find SE to hard maybe u should go and play AC, or something lover lvl.

Alucard.7845:

The problem with this game is that its so easy, and ppl hardly take time to know their class, which makes me SAD. I wish they would make a few more dungeons that are challenging,, that keep u on your toes. If u find SE to hard maybe u should go and play AC, or something lover lvl.

SE and CM are easier for me than AC, but then again I’m a reflect guardian/mesmer as my mains…

I have noticed a trend on these threads. It is often the clueless players who create them, as it appears that they’re unable to see the difference between a game mechanic (LoS, enemies using a set of abilities while ranged and another when melee) and exploits (Terrain trespassing, breaking the AI).
Once you manage to prove them wrong, they either keep defending their posture or argue about how players are not playing for fun anymore, while also throwing jabs at the devs and the “Elitists”.
It might come off as surprising and astonishing, but out there exist people with different tastes from yours; some people value efficiency more than anything and find enjoyment in doing something better than last time. I count myself among these.

Rather than trying to force others to play how you want by pleading the devs to remove something, you should find like-minded people to play with you. A few minutes ago I posted a LFG with the description: “No Stacking/Skipping”, and it took less than 5 minutes to fill, so why not exercise two things called Patience and Self-sufficiency and make a group of your own, rather than expect others (Devs, in this case) to hand it to you on a silver platter?

inb4 post deleted. Sorry ANET.

Edit: Keep in mind, if you are a non-stacker/non-skipper who creates their own groups and gets things done by yourself, NONE of this is directed to you and I sincerely apologise in advance if I offended you or someone you know. I deeply respect anyone who works for something they want, rather than asking others to get it for them.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

I have noticed a trend on these threads. It is often the clueless players who create them, as it appears that they’re unable to see the difference between a game mechanic (LoS, enemies using a set of abilities while ranged and another when melee) and exploits (Terrain trespassing, breaking the AI).
Once you manage to prove them wrong, they either keep defending their posture or argue about how players are not playing for fun anymore, while also throwing jabs at the devs and the “Elitists”.
It might come off as surprising and astonishing, but out there exist people with different tastes from yours; some people value efficiency more than anything and find enjoyment in doing something better than last time. I count myself among these.

Rather than trying to force others to play how you want by pleading the devs to remove something, you should find like-minded people to play with you. A few minutes ago I posted a LFG with the description: “No Stacking/Skipping”, and it took less than 5 minutes to fill, so why not exercise two things called Patience and Self-sufficiency and make a group of your own, rather than expect others (Devs, in this case) to hand it to you on a silver platter?

inb4 post deleted

But that’s hard, and why do that when you can blame the problem perceived on other players or game mechanics?

Good people who are pro stacking never tell people who are against stacking to stack here on the forums, yet people who are against stacking expect people who want to stack to stop, makes sense.

Lastly and I am beginning to suspect this is the true issue; they know that if 5 players that didn’t want to stack got together it wold be a torturous, long run because they lack damage potential in addition to not cleaving.

Ehhh. That whole ‘leave my playstyle alone!’ talking point really just rings a sour note.

It don’t know if it’s just the presentation of it. But it always seems like folks are more trying to use political correctness to protect these practices from scrutiny, not preserve a gameplay they’re deeply fond of emotionally.

If it is a gameplay, people just don’t act like it. I don’t see people ranting and raving that new traits and utilities aren’t being created with skipping and stacking in mind, for example. Nobody ever asks for skipping and stacking balance and calls things out on being OP.

What they do say, is that they’re just doing it for the sake of reward, which doesn’t exactly imply a great deal of fondness for the gameplay itself.

Stacking and the new skill arcane brilliance is absolutely OP. Nerf pls.

I personally don’t understand why people seem so fond of stacking. I get that it makes runs faster. But why would you want the game to not challenge you in any way?

I’m all for players finding the most efficient way to beat dungeons. But why not demand that the game challenges you more? Why not demand better designed combat and dungeons? Isn’t it kind of silly that almost all the content in the game can be beaten so easily, simply by stacking in a corner? I’m not against stacking, I’m against the game being so stupid.

If you read a few more threads you’ll realize that the majority of the zerk/meta-speedrunners actually would prefer if they got more challenging content.
Or why do you think so many of them do runs with self-imposed challenges like fewer players than allowed by the dungeon, running without armor or similar?

As it is now the fondness of stacking results from the way the content is designed at the moment and people farming it for the rewards.
Dish out challenging content and you’ll hear cries of joy from the regular dungeon crowd.