Guild Wars 2

Since I’ve seen a lot of controversy around those very frequently abused mechanics, do you think if using whirlwind attack and fiery rush/whirl against a wall or while being immobilized an exploit/broken mechanics? Should it be fixed or considered an advanced mechanic?

Discuss!

haviz.1340:

Since I’ve seen a lot of controversy around those very frequently abused mechanics, do you think if using whirlwind attack and fiery rush/whirl against a wall or while being immobilized an exploit/broken mechanics? Should it be fixed or considered an advanced mechanic?

Discuss!

Yeah, probably. 300k DPS is pretty high.

I’d say it’s an advanced mechanic, which rewards pinning down an enemy properly…. although they really need to fix mob AI so that it can react with regards to getting pinned down.

On the ele/thief end, though, I’d say pulling off a fgs rush then TPing back just when after passing to deal more damage is a very, very great technique to learn, as well as being fun to do.

It’s ~25k dps considering cooldowns for rush. Axe autoattack is around 10k if I recall correctly.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Yeah, probably. 300k DPS is pretty high.

Justified on 30 million hp sponges, I think.

One thing I just noticed about the skill, though – fgs whirl/war gs 3uses nearly the same damage ratio with the autoattack per hit, while giving evade, cripple and a whirl finisher all on a low CD. Was this the skill that the GS/fgs was designed for, though?

I’m not gna comment the “against a wall” thing, but the blink trick is not a big deal since cooldown for it is huge (40s)

Bread.7516:

I’m not gna comment the “against a wall” thing, but the blink trick is not a big deal since cooldown for it is huge (40s)

It also has a counterplay, namely Risen Illusionists in Arah!

~14k dps from fiery rush alone (think about activation time) when against a wall.
Whirl isn’t bad either with ~5k dps. Though, it’s one of the things that makes an elementalist worth to take, even though the teleport thing might be fixed.
To bring up another perspective: did Anet probably intend the fgs to work this way? An elite conjure on a 180 seconds cooldown with much less dps/no blinds than lightning hammer if not using rush… that can’t really be their intention. And i don’t think it was meant to be a pure movement skill, rush gets you into combat way too often.

I don’t think it is an exploit. The skill is just overpowered. I think they should make AoEs bigger but reduce their amount.

Wethospu.6437:

I don’t think it is an exploit. The skill is just overpowered. I think they should make AoEs bigger but reduce their amount.

So instead of doing four hits (using wiki data), it should be less than four hits?

Wethospu.6437:

I don’t think it is an exploit. The skill is just overpowered. I think they should make AoEs bigger but reduce their amount.

Warriors are overpowered as well, huehuehue.

what is this, “we’ve had our fun, now nerf this so no one else can do it?”

Broadicea.8294:

what is this, “we’ve had our fun, now nerf this so no one else can do it?”

They didn’t use a wall.

They should probably change Fiery Rush, it’s not being used as intended. WA/Fiery Whirl are fine imo.

Broadicea.8294:

what is this, “we’ve had our fun, now nerf this so no one else can do it?”

On the contrary.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

They should probably change Fiery Rush, it’s not being used as intended. WA/Fiery Whirl are fine imo.

Imho it’s same thing. Using an obstruction in order to maximize damage

haviz.1340:

Broadicea.8294:

what is this, “we’ve had our fun, now nerf this so no one else can do it?”

On the contrary.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

They should probably change Fiery Rush, it’s not being used as intended. WA/Fiery Whirl are fine imo.

Imho it’s same thing. Using an obstruction in order to maximize damage

I don’t think the trail from Fiery Rush was ever intended to be the main damage aspect of it. People are intentionally avoiding using the skill as intended (to rush to the target, proc’ing the final part of the skill) to get full potential of the fiery trail. WA and Whirl aren’t used the same way.

If the insane damage from Fiery Rush came from the part of the skill which only gets used if you have a target, I wouldn’t see anything wrong with it (other than a single hit doing 300k+ damage)

Advent Leader.1083:

Wethospu.6437:

I don’t think it is an exploit. The skill is just overpowered. I think they should make AoEs bigger but reduce their amount.

So instead of doing four hits (using wiki data), it should be less than four hits?

I don’t think anyone really cares about Fiery Whirl with current Fiery Rush.

I think everyone should just make a Volcanus to keep up with the meta!

Ah. Wait. Is fiery rush designed by leaving small AoE’s per distance covered? If that’s the case then I think it’s either a design oversight or a sloppy way to code a trail-based attack.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I don’t think the trail from Fiery Rush was ever intended to be the main damage aspect of it. People are intentionally avoiding using the skill as intended (to rush to the target, proc’ing the final part of the skill) to get full potential of the fiery trail. WA and Whirl aren’t used the same way.

If the insane damage from Fiery Rush came from the part of the skill which only gets used if you have a target, I wouldn’t see anything wrong with it (other than a single hit doing 300k+ damage)

Charge at your foe, leaving a line of fire behind you.
Doesn’t explicitly say what’s the main damage aspect.

I don’t think anyone would bother using fgs without current fiery rush.

Btw: It is 68 ticks. On Lupicus, with 25 might, 25 vuln, (almost) max damage build, banners, empower allies, 25 stacks, force + undead sigil, etc. it deals about 2.5k damage per tick. Thats 170k damage in ideal circumstances, nothing close to 300k+.

They should buff other skills then. Or make Rampage similar!

haviz.1340:

Charge at your foe, leaving a line of fire behind you.
Doesn’t explicitly say what’s the main damage aspect.

If you have a target doesn’t it just leap without any line of fire?
And it doesn’t mention leaving multiple points of fire under you.

Advent Leader.1083:

Ah. Wait. Is fiery rush designed by leaving small AoE’s per distance covered? If that’s the case then I think it’s either a design oversight or a sloppy way to code a trail-based attack.

Not only fiery rush, but burning retreat and burning speed. There’s even nice trick with b. speed and blink, where you blink backwards right in the middle of it. Good damage if you pull it out.

They should buff other skills then. Or make Rampage similar!

How dare dem pesky eles outdps a warrior!

If you have a target you still leave the same trail behind you as without target.

Dub.1273:

If you have a target you still leave the same trail behind you as without target.

Until you get within a certain range, then you do an attack similar to the Warrior Rush. My point is, haviz. The skill was intended to be used with a target in mind, and the skill has a mechanic to it which alters it when you do so. People deliberately use the skill without a target, to achieve what I believe is an unintentional result.

Also, I’ve seen Fiery Rush ticks cap over 4k. I can get the screen when my friend logs on. 68*4k = 272k. 300k+ is theoretically possible.

Wethospu.6437:

They should buff other skills then. Or make Rampage similar!

Rampage is already too strong for skipping.

If you have a target doesn’t it just leap without any line of fire?
And it doesn’t mention leaving multiple points of fire under you.

You will leave a trail if target isn’t very close to you. Trail means multiple points, it’s the same with burning speed.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Until you get within a certain range, then you do an attack similar to the Warrior Rush. My point is, haviz. The skill was intended to be used with a target in mind, and the skill has a mechanic to it which alters it when you do so. People deliberately use the skill without a target, to achieve what I believe is an unintentional result.

What happens if you start a rush from 1200 range, have a target and use flash? Can’t check now.

Also, I’ve seen Fiery Rush ticks cap over 4k. I can get the screen when my friend logs on. 68*4k = 272k. 300k+ is theoretically possible.

It depends on armour but for simple estimate Lupi has 33% damage reduction. 1.5*2.5k*68 = 255k in 10s. Axe autoattack is ~2 times worse.

It proc’s the jump-up-in-the-air-and-smack-the-target thing. The trail also stops.

Fiery Rush is fine how it is. Using examples of the extremes in the most ideal situations is hardly a compelling argument to claim a skill is too overpowered to be allowed. not to mention in the actual time it takes for this damage to be applied, burst builds can probably achieve their own 6 digit numbers.

Even if this skill was used in PvP to any kind of effect beyond MAYBE the occasional lone golem kill on a gate, the ease of it to be avoided is laughable considering all the damage is on a spot the size of one person.

That said, it IS an elite skill after all. From my understanding these skills are supposed to be an ace card only available to you for a short time. God forbid Ele’s actually have something they can contribute that’s well respected in this area.

Bluefox.9580:

Fiery Rush is fine how it is. Using examples of the extremes in the most ideal situations is hardly a compelling argument to claim a skill is too overpowered to be allowed. not to mention in the actual time it takes for this damage to be applied, burst builds can probably achieve their own 6 digit numbers.

Even if this skill was used in PvP to any kind of effect beyond MAYBE the occasional lone golem kill on a gate, the ease of it to be avoided is laughable considering all the damage is on a spot the size of one person.

That said, it IS an elite skill after all. From my understanding these skills are supposed to be an ace card only available to you for a short time. God forbid Ele’s actually have something they can contribute that’s well respected in this area.

I dont know of any skill which bursts as high as fiery rush.

spoj

I dont know of any skill which bursts as high as fiery rush.

Bluefox

God forbid Ele’s actually have something they can contribute that’s well respected in this area.

spoj.9672:

I dont know of any skill which bursts as high as fiery rush.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/

Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.

Working as intended gentlemen!

What if fiery rush just dealt damage once and procced burning several times instead? Like tracking a target and just stacking burn on the target if they follow. Would it kill the skill?

Burning is strong in pve and needs longer duration.

spoj.9672:

Bluefox.9580:

Fiery Rush is fine how it is. Using examples of the extremes in the most ideal situations is hardly a compelling argument to claim a skill is too overpowered to be allowed. not to mention in the actual time it takes for this damage to be applied, burst builds can probably achieve their own 6 digit numbers.

Even if this skill was used in PvP to any kind of effect beyond MAYBE the occasional lone golem kill on a gate, the ease of it to be avoided is laughable considering all the damage is on a spot the size of one person.

That said, it IS an elite skill after all. From my understanding these skills are supposed to be an ace card only available to you for a short time. God forbid Ele’s actually have something they can contribute that’s well respected in this area.

I dont know of any skill which bursts as high as fiery rush.

My hundred blades makes a big number.

Bluefox.9580:

Fiery Rush is fine how it is. Using examples of the extremes in the most ideal situations is hardly a compelling argument to claim a skill is too overpowered to be allowed. not to mention in the actual time it takes for this damage to be applied, burst builds can probably achieve their own 6 digit numbers.

Is using a skill against a wall, being immobilized or using a teleport considered an extreme situation? Because other mechanics like Might-stacking and Vulnerability apply similarly to other skills.
Just playing the game shows how Fiery Rush allows you to instantly melt stuff like Lupicus. But I’m sure you like your Elementalist and want to keep it that way.

Even if this skill was used in PvP to any kind of effect beyond MAYBE the occasional lone golem kill on a gate, the ease of it to be avoided is laughable considering all the damage is on a spot the size of one person.

I’m not aware of any PvP dungeons so I don’t see how this is relevant on a dungeon forum.

That said, it IS an elite skill after all. From my understanding these skills are supposed to be an ace card only available to you for a short time. God forbid Ele’s actually have something they can contribute that’s well respected in this area.

Elite skills can also be overpowered.

Eles can out DPS my l33t warrior!? NARF IT!

Wethospu.6437:

But I’m sure you like your Elementalist and want to keep it that way.

I’d rather have them nerf all conjures but buff ele abyssal dps. Instead, the former will happen while the latter not. And ele will be like necro, having no unique mechanic that could contribute.

If fgs can do 250k dmg, what about the most obvious offender, feedback. Is doing 800k dmg not too much? Even worse, reflections are used everywhere to not only deal damage but to protect yourself while dealing even more damage.

More discussion, less trolling!

Reflects should have a damage cap, similar to how retaliation works.

NONONONONONONO

Capping reflect damage is the biggest … excuse the joke … F/U to mesmers ANet can do.

colesy.8490:

NONONONONONONO

Capping reflect damage is the biggest … excuse the joke … F/U to mesmers ANet can do.

Even if they were compensated?

Retaliation doesn’t have a cap.

haviz.1340:

Retaliation doesn’t have a cap.

…really?

my life is a lie ._.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

colesy.8490:

NONONONONONONO

Capping reflect damage is the biggest … excuse the joke … F/U to mesmers ANet can do.

Even if they were compensated?

Compensate us with invulnerable phantasms in PvE that also take on damage %+ modifiers.

Exploit? No. Working as intended? Probably not.

It’s fair to say Anet did not anticipate FGS being used the way it is currently. But I abhor the concept of deciphering “developer intentions” and I feel the way things work is how they are supposed to work until they are nerfed, in which case we can use hindsight to judge intentions.

btw, this works with any skill that leaves a trail. Same thing can be done with Staff fire 4 and Flame axe 4 (although they’re considerably weaker).

If there’s no wall, I don’t take lightning flash. Instead I keep my inventory full and open a champ loot bag to self-snare mid Firey Rush. Obviously advanced mechanics.

If fiery rush gets a trail nerf, reflect should get a nerf too e.g. Feedback/WoR shatters after reflecting 5 shots.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

…really?

my life is a lie ._.

Not exactly, it has cap for stacking but it has no damage cap.

zencow.3651:

If there’s no wall, I don’t take lightning flash. Instead I keep my inventory full and open a champ loot bag to self-snare mid Firey Rush. Obviously advanced mechanics.

Gonna check it!

If fiery rush gets a trail nerf, reflect should get a nerf too e.g. Feedback/WoR shatters after reflecting 5 shots.

Completely agree. Reflections are being abused by every party, while fiery rush is a gimmick.