Guild Wars 2

I run 6 paths (COF 1,2 SE 1,3 HOTW 1, TA up) every day starting after reset. From my experience, putting “80s exp” in the lfg description does make a huge difference compared to not putting anything else besides which path you want to run. 90% of the time the run is very efficient. The other 10% is just one person making a big mistake, but not something that turns the run into a horror story. Very rarely do I get a run where everything goes wrong. 80s exp groups fill up fast especially after reset so almost no waiting followed by a good run makes me very happy.

That said, I do join groups that only list the path and those can be a mixed bag. More often than not, people who want to run the path are experienced anyway so you get a smooth run. But you also get newbies as well on some other runs. I don’t mind explaining something if necessary and I am a bit tolerant of others making mistakes if they haven’t done the path before, but I do get annoyed when things go very wrong too. I won’t be the one to nerdrage on party chat though, because that only makes things worse.

At this point, I don’t see a need for 5k zerker gear (and whatever else people keep adding to those descriptions like heavies only no ranger). Whenever I see them in the lfg, they take longer to fill than simply putting 80s exp. In the long run, I can’t see more restrictions being more efficient because waiting longer to start the run isn’t an efficient use of your time lol. Since I don’t join those groups, I don’t know how much more efficient the run itself is compared to 80s exp. Cool if you get a perfect run every time though.

tldr, the state of pugging is fine.

Stooperdale.3560:

Tree.3916:

Put it this way: bad players can wear good gear and still be bad. But good players can’t wear bad gear still be good.

Good players are still better even in poor gear and often even on an unfamiliar class. They just nail the dodges and stay alive easily. It’s only speed runs that need players in good gear.

From a logical standpoint, part of being a good player is knowing what is optimal. good players wear good gear as a result of being a good player. Sure sometimes, as a joke, good players will run Clerics or Nomads or whatever. But no “good player” would wear bad gear if he was trying to be good.

When someone says “well I run full Knights and I’m a good player!” they are almost certainly wrong about that.

J Eberle.9312:

I’m not bothering to take people who aren’t bothered to take the right gear, no matter how ‘good’ they say/think they are. I just don’t have the time for those attitudes when I’m pugging.

Yup.

However I think for me it’s more like I don’t want to have anything to do with people that willingly g!mp their potential. I don’t want to condone the notion of it being OK to join groups without reading the LFG posts, nor do I want to frustrate myself.

I really would rather solo, go with a team size less than 5, or wait until people with adequate equipment join the party.

RTG Guardian in KING tourney was running PTV and AH build most of the time which are both said to be suboptimal(Build and gear wise). The Guardian in my opinion played amazingly.

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

EcoRI.9273:

RTG Guardian in KING tourney was running PTV and AH build most of the time which are both said to be suboptimal(Build and gear wise). The Guardian in my opinion played amazingly.

top k3k.

EcoRI.9273:

RTG Guardian in KING tourney was running PTV and AH build most of the time which are both said to be suboptimal(Build and gear wise). The Guardian in my opinion played amazingly.

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

In spite of =/= because of.

There are a few fractal bosses where I could see PVT being used to hold aggro situationally, but AH traits is just a pure bad decision.

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

Oh I’m not that mean!
Sometimes it’s ‘just how the cookie crumbles’ or some such wise kitten saying. :3

J Eberle.9312:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

Oh I’m not that mean XD.

:D

Really though, I think the tactics they used played off the “pillar guard” mentality, and he played it very well. Is it going to yield the fastest times, naw, but it’s a safe solid way to play. I think these tournament have done a good job of highlighting some non meta play styles that are pretty valid when you consider things more than optimal speed. When a wipe hinders you then certain concessions may be worthwhile.

Of course these options aren’t going to yield speed clear records, but they may be better given the environment you’re playing in.

That said, in a thread about the “state of pugging” I don’t think many of the alternatives are all that good because people aren’t organized to utilize them fully. IE what good is a pillar guard when you’re running with Nomad/PVT geared people?

Ropechef.6192:

in response to another thread i thought i would bring this here. dont know why. just thought it would be something to think about or perhaps understand.
******

I am the eternal PuGer
My typical time to play is between midnight and 6 am NA, ( i am a Chef as my screen name implies so my hours are all sorts of not normal.)
I will be completely honest.
IN my 2 years of PuGing.
with the exception of the occasional run with dungeon forum regulars. (which number of runs i can count on 2 hands)

I have never seen 25 stacks of might.
I have never seen a 5 person DpS group.
I have never seen a Sword, Warhorn/axe Ranger.
I have never seen a dagger Necromancer.
I have to be the Gaurdian in Fractals because wall of reflection and hammer is not what being a guardian is about… 0.o
Kohler is skipped 19 out of 20 times..
Lupi is either rage quit or ranged. Melee involves at least 5 wipes. (as i am not quite good enough to solo him… YET)
i am sure i could think of more if i really thought about it.
…. ((sobs))

So,
For all of you that are “good” I want to personally say KEEP BEING AWESOME! yes that involves You Colsey, Swifty, Brazil, Nike, Rising Dusk, Sanderinoa, Random fight fan, Nevets Crimsonwing, FriFox, Lillith, Spoj, Dub, Card, Domz, Dekeys, Purple Miku, Sam, Jarem, Ivan the Grey, DnT, Snow Crows, Retaliate, Ren, King, Club, …….

and so many others that i am forgetting.

Keep doing what you are doing, and if nothing, realize there is at least one person out there that is eating it all up and trying to learn as best he can from what information is available. You are constant inspiration to at least me. and in turn i take what you all teach and try my very best to pass it along to the people that i come into contact with.

For all of you that want to come into the Dungeon Forums and complain.. you can Bugger right off. Instead of complaining, why don’t you be constructive and actually ask questions on how you can complete the content. Instead of trying to change the game.

((shrug))
I really don’t know where that all came from. But I had to take almost 2 weeks off from the game because I could not stand the constant crying.
Keep kicking tail gang yer all awesome.

I don’t deserve to be among that list of greats! I can’t even solo lupi!

:D

OP is such a nice guy, he sent chicken for my Swiftpaw to eat. <3

Ropechef is perhaps my favorite necro of all time (sorry Spoj!)

Chef is great we all need more chef in our lives.

One of these days we will on show up at comic con in fashionable dungeon attire and chef will prepare sushi for us and we will be merry.

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

Just to be clear, I was in no way meaning for that to be an insult, just trying to point out that it worked pretty well for them is all. Nothing but respect for the guilds that competed.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Ropechef is perhaps my favorite necro of all time (sorry Spoj!)

Chef is great we all need more chef in our lives.

One of these days we will on show up at comic con in fashionable dungeon attire and chef will prepare sushi for us and we will be merry.

Anime Fetish Ball.
:)
Gotcha covered.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I don’t deserve to be among that list of greats! I can’t even solo lupi!

:D

well hell!

Come Asura, let us lock ourselves in Arah till we can!!!!

Ropechef.6192:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Ropechef is perhaps my favorite necro of all time (sorry Spoj!)

Chef is great we all need more chef in our lives.

One of these days we will on show up at comic con in fashionable dungeon attire and chef will prepare sushi for us and we will be merry.

Anime Fetish Ball.
:)
Gotcha covered.

I assume there is a no hands rule there right?

Jerus.4350:

Ropechef.6192:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Ropechef is perhaps my favorite necro of all time (sorry Spoj!)

Chef is great we all need more chef in our lives.

One of these days we will on show up at comic con in fashionable dungeon attire and chef will prepare sushi for us and we will be merry.

Anime Fetish Ball.
:)
Gotcha covered.

I assume there is a no hands rule there right?

Plethora of chopsticks.
I need to go do these again. The restaraunt has been keeping me late enough on the nights they run to not allow for it. (shrug) meh.

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

And it doesn’t have any relevance to pugging. This was a tourny environment that depends on many different factors including the risks and tactics employed by other people to be successful. If another team gets wrecked because they took huge risks, then of course all your team needs to do is not die and get through it at a stable pace. Props to them for playing it safe because it worked out for them, it’s a really good tactic for that environment.

When I am pugging, I will absolutely kick someone in PVT and AH 10 times out of 10. They’re nothing but a burden to a well composed full meta team doing a dungeon tour with tactics that are low risk and proven time and time again to work. You should know just how much of a spanner in the works one bad build can be when the rest of your team is geared towards getting things killed fast. It’s noticeable, and then when it’s say 3 people with bad builds, or 4, you really start feeling it, and the wipes start happening. Doesn’t matter how ‘good’ they are, it does not change their kitten dps.

‘good players’ can run bad builds, or good players can run good builds and be better.

Why do we have to keep justifying how we want to play every week

Some of people care, some people don’t

wow i just solved every argument this forum ever has

Because fractals 49-50 is full of berserker guardians, melee warriors that wipe the floors…..its quite annoying when they are the same opening the “only zerker” lfgs.

Obviously they didn t read the part of the guides suggesting how to use spare weapons (and equip).

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

And it doesn’t have any relevance to pugging. This was a tourny environment that depends on many different factors including the risks and tactics employed by other people to be successful. If another team gets wrecked because they took huge risks, then of course all your team needs to do is not die and get through it at a stable pace. Props to them for playing it safe because it worked out for them, it’s a really good tactic for that environment.

When I am pugging, I will absolutely kick someone in PVT and AH 10 times out of 10. They’re nothing but a burden to a well composed full meta team doing a dungeon tour with tactics that are low risk and proven time and time again to work. You should know just how much of a spanner in the works one bad build can be when the rest of your team is geared towards getting things killed fast. It’s noticeable, and then when it’s say 3 people with bad builds, or 4, you really start feeling it, and the wipes start happening. Doesn’t matter how ‘good’ they are, it does not change their kitten dps.

‘good players’ can run bad builds, or good players can run good builds and be better.

Talking about Fractals here. The Fractal tourney showed that you can AH PTV you can get things done safe and fast. But Yes I agree in dungeons its best to run all berserkers because most of the time things melt so fast you don’t even need to dodge. Also you should probably put ‘bad’ in quotes too because although AH is not ‘meta’ at the moment, RTG must has talked about their builds prior to the tournament. The AH guardian allowed every1 else in the team to play more aggressive and stay melee for longer, a form of dps meter that can not be calculated with paper dps.

EcoRI.9273:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

And it doesn’t have any relevance to pugging. This was a tourny environment that depends on many different factors including the risks and tactics employed by other people to be successful. If another team gets wrecked because they took huge risks, then of course all your team needs to do is not die and get through it at a stable pace. Props to them for playing it safe because it worked out for them, it’s a really good tactic for that environment.

When I am pugging, I will absolutely kick someone in PVT and AH 10 times out of 10. They’re nothing but a burden to a well composed full meta team doing a dungeon tour with tactics that are low risk and proven time and time again to work. You should know just how much of a spanner in the works one bad build can be when the rest of your team is geared towards getting things killed fast. It’s noticeable, and then when it’s say 3 people with bad builds, or 4, you really start feeling it, and the wipes start happening. Doesn’t matter how ‘good’ they are, it does not change their kitten dps.

‘good players’ can run bad builds, or good players can run good builds and be better.

Talking about Fractals here. The Fractal tourney showed that you can AH PTV you can get things done safe and fast. But Yes I agree in dungeons its best to run all berserkers because most of the time things melt so fast you don’t even need to dodge. Also you should probably put ‘bad’ in quotes too because although AH is not ‘meta’ at the moment, RTG must has talked about their builds prior to the tournament. The AH guardian allowed every1 else in the team to play more aggressive and stay melee for longer, a form of dps meter that can not be calculated with paper dps.

The two comments before yours were referring to pugging but I suppose it’s not out of the ordinary for some people to post their random opinions out of the blue.
Either way, just so you know because I’m not sure if you play guardian.. but you can actually be a ‘pillar’ and allow every1 else in the team to play more aggressive and stay melee for longer without AH and still do more for your team. So it’s still a bad build and it’s not up for debate. It’s not meta atm and it won’t be meta in the foreseeable future.

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

And it doesn’t have any relevance to pugging. This was a tourny environment that depends on many different factors including the risks and tactics employed by other people to be successful. If another team gets wrecked because they took huge risks, then of course all your team needs to do is not die and get through it at a stable pace. Props to them for playing it safe because it worked out for them, it’s a really good tactic for that environment.

When I am pugging, I will absolutely kick someone in PVT and AH 10 times out of 10. They’re nothing but a burden to a well composed full meta team doing a dungeon tour with tactics that are low risk and proven time and time again to work. You should know just how much of a spanner in the works one bad build can be when the rest of your team is geared towards getting things killed fast. It’s noticeable, and then when it’s say 3 people with bad builds, or 4, you really start feeling it, and the wipes start happening. Doesn’t matter how ‘good’ they are, it does not change their kitten dps.

‘good players’ can run bad builds, or good players can run good builds and be better.

Talking about Fractals here. The Fractal tourney showed that you can AH PTV you can get things done safe and fast. But Yes I agree in dungeons its best to run all berserkers because most of the time things melt so fast you don’t even need to dodge. Also you should probably put ‘bad’ in quotes too because although AH is not ‘meta’ at the moment, RTG must has talked about their builds prior to the tournament. The AH guardian allowed every1 else in the team to play more aggressive and stay melee for longer, a form of dps meter that can not be calculated with paper dps.

The two comments before yours were referring to pugging but I suppose it’s not out of the ordinary for some people to post their random opinions out of the blue.
Either way, just so you know because I’m not sure if you play guardian.. but you can actually be a ‘pillar’ without AH and still do more for your team. So it’s still a bad build and it’s not up for debate.

People pug fractal, why can’t they take builds used in a fractal tournament that showed it was safe and fast?

EcoRI.9273:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

And it doesn’t have any relevance to pugging. This was a tourny environment that depends on many different factors including the risks and tactics employed by other people to be successful. If another team gets wrecked because they took huge risks, then of course all your team needs to do is not die and get through it at a stable pace. Props to them for playing it safe because it worked out for them, it’s a really good tactic for that environment.

When I am pugging, I will absolutely kick someone in PVT and AH 10 times out of 10. They’re nothing but a burden to a well composed full meta team doing a dungeon tour with tactics that are low risk and proven time and time again to work. You should know just how much of a spanner in the works one bad build can be when the rest of your team is geared towards getting things killed fast. It’s noticeable, and then when it’s say 3 people with bad builds, or 4, you really start feeling it, and the wipes start happening. Doesn’t matter how ‘good’ they are, it does not change their kitten dps.

‘good players’ can run bad builds, or good players can run good builds and be better.

Talking about Fractals here. The Fractal tourney showed that you can AH PTV you can get things done safe and fast. But Yes I agree in dungeons its best to run all berserkers because most of the time things melt so fast you don’t even need to dodge. Also you should probably put ‘bad’ in quotes too because although AH is not ‘meta’ at the moment, RTG must has talked about their builds prior to the tournament. The AH guardian allowed every1 else in the team to play more aggressive and stay melee for longer, a form of dps meter that can not be calculated with paper dps.

The two comments before yours were referring to pugging but I suppose it’s not out of the ordinary for some people to post their random opinions out of the blue.
Either way, just so you know because I’m not sure if you play guardian.. but you can actually be a ‘pillar’ without AH and still do more for your team. So it’s still a bad build and it’s not up for debate.

People pug fractal, why can’t they take builds used in a fractal tournament that showed it was safe and fast?

I’m actually not even going to answer that. I just… wow. You of all people.

EcoRI.9273:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

And it doesn’t have any relevance to pugging. This was a tourny environment that depends on many different factors including the risks and tactics employed by other people to be successful. If another team gets wrecked because they took huge risks, then of course all your team needs to do is not die and get through it at a stable pace. Props to them for playing it safe because it worked out for them, it’s a really good tactic for that environment.

When I am pugging, I will absolutely kick someone in PVT and AH 10 times out of 10. They’re nothing but a burden to a well composed full meta team doing a dungeon tour with tactics that are low risk and proven time and time again to work. You should know just how much of a spanner in the works one bad build can be when the rest of your team is geared towards getting things killed fast. It’s noticeable, and then when it’s say 3 people with bad builds, or 4, you really start feeling it, and the wipes start happening. Doesn’t matter how ‘good’ they are, it does not change their kitten dps.

‘good players’ can run bad builds, or good players can run good builds and be better.

Talking about Fractals here. The Fractal tourney showed that you can AH PTV you can get things done safe and fast. But Yes I agree in dungeons its best to run all berserkers because most of the time things melt so fast you don’t even need to dodge. Also you should probably put ‘bad’ in quotes too because although AH is not ‘meta’ at the moment, RTG must has talked about their builds prior to the tournament. The AH guardian allowed every1 else in the team to play more aggressive and stay melee for longer, a form of dps meter that can not be calculated with paper dps.

The two comments before yours were referring to pugging but I suppose it’s not out of the ordinary for some people to post their random opinions out of the blue.
Either way, just so you know because I’m not sure if you play guardian.. but you can actually be a ‘pillar’ without AH and still do more for your team. So it’s still a bad build and it’s not up for debate.

People pug fractal, why can’t they take builds used in a fractal tournament that showed it was safe and fast?

You only need enough toughness to hold Mossman/Archdiviner/Ettin aggro. Any toughness more than you need to keep their aggro is a waste. You don’t need the Toughness to survive when holding their aggro assuming you know how to rotate Aegis/focus 5/dodges. You don’t need the healing from AH to survive while holding aggro for the same reason. So long as your party keeps the bosses crippled and/or chilled you won’t be hit much at all. So what is AH for? It’s a safety blanket for someone who doesn’t know their class well enough.

Tree.3916:

EcoRI.9273:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

‘Played amazingly.’ Yes, well it’s not hard to look ‘amazing’ when playing a facedesk build.

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: They placed 2nd, could’ve won if they didn’t get 5mins of DC.

OR if he didn’t feel the need to use AH ‘most of the time.’

What does this say for those that they beat?

They were competing against people like [rT] and [iV] who were running berserker’s. But anyways good players can run bad builds.

And it doesn’t have any relevance to pugging. This was a tourny environment that depends on many different factors including the risks and tactics employed by other people to be successful. If another team gets wrecked because they took huge risks, then of course all your team needs to do is not die and get through it at a stable pace. Props to them for playing it safe because it worked out for them, it’s a really good tactic for that environment.

When I am pugging, I will absolutely kick someone in PVT and AH 10 times out of 10. They’re nothing but a burden to a well composed full meta team doing a dungeon tour with tactics that are low risk and proven time and time again to work. You should know just how much of a spanner in the works one bad build can be when the rest of your team is geared towards getting things killed fast. It’s noticeable, and then when it’s say 3 people with bad builds, or 4, you really start feeling it, and the wipes start happening. Doesn’t matter how ‘good’ they are, it does not change their kitten dps.

‘good players’ can run bad builds, or good players can run good builds and be better.

Talking about Fractals here. The Fractal tourney showed that you can AH PTV you can get things done safe and fast. But Yes I agree in dungeons its best to run all berserkers because most of the time things melt so fast you don’t even need to dodge. Also you should probably put ‘bad’ in quotes too because although AH is not ‘meta’ at the moment, RTG must has talked about their builds prior to the tournament. The AH guardian allowed every1 else in the team to play more aggressive and stay melee for longer, a form of dps meter that can not be calculated with paper dps.

The two comments before yours were referring to pugging but I suppose it’s not out of the ordinary for some people to post their random opinions out of the blue.
Either way, just so you know because I’m not sure if you play guardian.. but you can actually be a ‘pillar’ without AH and still do more for your team. So it’s still a bad build and it’s not up for debate.

People pug fractal, why can’t they take builds used in a fractal tournament that showed it was safe and fast?

You only need enough toughness to hold Mossman/Archdiviner/Ettin aggro. Any toughness more than you need to keep their aggro is a waste. You don’t need the Toughness to survive when holding their aggro assuming you know how to rotate Aegis/focus 5/dodges. You don’t need the healing from AH to survive while holding aggro for the same reason. So long as your party keeps the bosses crippled and/or chilled you won’t be hit much at all. So what is AH for? It’s a safety blanket for someone who doesn’t know their class well enough.

Yes I agree its not the most optimal build, but it is a very safe build and it is fast enough. AH guardian is low risk medium reward. Here was my interpretation of their use of AH guardian, they mainly used it on bosses that hit hard and are difficult to dodge. They used 2guardian aegis chains and hammer symbols to heal and protection. What that created is a Bunker Guardian that did not need to dodge much or back pedal hence the boss will stay “rooted” allowing for warriors do perform optimal GS rotations, pretty smart if you ask me.

J Eberle.9312:

I’m actually not even going to answer that. I just… wow. You of all people.

Swift I guess this is where our opinion differs on the state of PUGGing. Some pugs just want to do things safe and fast, some just don’t care about not so safe but faster.

EcoRI.9273:

Swift I guess this is where our opinion differs on the state of PUGGing. Some pugs just want to do things safe and fast, some just don’t care about not so safe but faster.

You can do a safe and fast run without AH.
And
You can do a not so safe fast run without AH.

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Swift I guess this is where our opinion differs on the state of PUGGing. Some pugs just want to do things safe and fast, some just don’t care about not so safe but faster.

You can do a safe and fast run without AH.
And
You can do a not so safe fast run without AH.

Yes I agree with both statements.

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Swift I guess this is where our opinion differs on the state of PUGGing. Some pugs just want to do things safe and fast, some just don’t care about not so safe but faster.

You can do a safe and fast run without AH.
And
You can do a not so safe fast run without AH.

The inverse of these statements is also true though

NOT THAT IM ADVOCATING USING AH, im just saying

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Swift I guess this is where our opinion differs on the state of PUGGing. Some pugs just want to do things safe and fast, some just don’t care about not so safe but faster.

You can do a safe and fast run without AH.
And
You can do a not so safe fast run without AH.

The inverse of these statements is also true though

NOT THAT IM ADVOCATING USING AH, im just saying

There’s basically no point in taking it. NOT THAT IT MATTERS TO SOMEONE WHO IS JUST HERE TO STIR THE POT. I’m just saying.

J Eberle.9312:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Swift I guess this is where our opinion differs on the state of PUGGing. Some pugs just want to do things safe and fast, some just don’t care about not so safe but faster.

You can do a safe and fast run without AH.
And
You can do a not so safe fast run without AH.

The inverse of these statements is also true though

NOT THAT IM ADVOCATING USING AH, im just saying

There’s basically no point in taking it. NOT THAT IT MATTERS TO SOMEONE WHO IS JUST HERE TO STIR THE POT. I’m just saying.

I agree

Edited out my entire post because I decided all that needed to be said is:

BLAME STRIFE

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

J Eberle.9312:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

J Eberle.9312:

EcoRI.9273:

Swift I guess this is where our opinion differs on the state of PUGGing. Some pugs just want to do things safe and fast, some just don’t care about not so safe but faster.

You can do a safe and fast run without AH.
And
You can do a not so safe fast run without AH.

The inverse of these statements is also true though

NOT THAT IM ADVOCATING USING AH, im just saying

There’s basically no point in taking it. NOT THAT IT MATTERS TO SOMEONE WHO IS JUST HERE TO STIR THE POT. I’m just saying.

I agree. NOT THAT IT MATTERS TO PEOPLE WHO JUST PLAY HOW THEY WANT

woah this just went full circle

It probably matters to people who were/are unaware that AH isn’t that great. I ignored you the first time you took a jab for a reason. I don’t just make my arguments for the sake of PHIW players, there’s plenty of people who are simply misinformed because if what they read on the forums. Secondly you’re here to be a kitten, not to have a conversation, so it’s not worth my time.

Looks like Cookie got burned bad :x

Not really, swiftpaw thinks I’m making jabs when I’m not, it’s probably the capitalised sentences not coming across in the same tone as intended, but oh well, some people just like to interpret everything as an attack

My blunt opinion since I’m apparently being ‘burned’? 9 times out of 10, people who care what builds others run in pugs are self-conscious about their own playing ability and need to create their ‘comfort’ environment because they know they’ll underperform otherwise. In essence, they need a good composition to crutch their sub-par skill level

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Not really, swiftpaw thinks I’m making jabs when I’m not, it’s probably the capitalised sentences not coming across in the same tone as intended, but oh well, some people just like to interpret everything as an attack

My blunt opinion since I’m apparently being ‘burned’?

You’re honestly just making it worse.

What have I done :x I find this highly intriguing but won’t probe further.

shares cake with everyone on the thread C’mon, sweeties.

Gib to me

Speed is not the only way of playing this game. Remember pugs are always worse than organized groups, if some one is not comfortable running Berserker’s and always dies, there are crutch, safety blanket builds that are NOT OPTIMAL but can help them do speedy runs(as shown in the tournament). And they can work themselves up to more optimal builds. Of course this was talked about in a DnT thread and I know how you guys feel about suboptimal builds but my opinion is you let people decide what build works for them and let them slowly transition into more glass cannon builds. And keep in mind to a certain extend everyone has a little PHIW in them, and that level of PHIW varies from person to person. If one truly cares about speed and optimal play, they would be running 3-4eles for dungeon tours, swapping comps to fit the dungeon better, having stacks of dungeon specific sigils and using these sigils like pots.

I have never seen 25 stacks of might.
-I am very often in groups that run 25 stacks of Might. Even if I have to provide 1/2 of it lol.

I have never seen a 5 person DpS group.
-I find it more often a rare occasion when I get into groups that aren’t DPS groups…

I have never seen a Sword, Warhorn/axe Ranger.
-Rangers are a rare breed. My friend plays a Ranger, but he runs Sword Warhorn

I have never seen a dagger Necromancer.
-I never pay attention to Necro’s ><

I have to be the Gaurdian in Fractals because wall of reflection and hammer is not what being a guardian is about… 0.o
-If there is a Guardian in FOTM not running WoR… he’s doing it wrong. (I main a Guardian)

Kohler is skipped 19 out of 20 times..
-Every AC run I do… Kohler has rarely (if ever) been skipped

Lupi is either rage quit or ranged. Melee involves at least 5 wipes. (as i am not quite good enough to solo him… YET)
-I hate Arah so… yeah…