Guild Wars 2

Lupus is hard since when?

Iehova.9518:

Lupus is hard since when?

Lupi is hard for most all players. If he is not hard for you, that is great. But for most players he is a difficult challenge.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lupi is hard for most all players. If he is not hard for you, that is great. But for most players he is a difficult challenge.

Well, if they can’t kill Lupus, maybe they shouldn’t go to Arah?

And why on earth are y’all fixated on Lupus so much? It’s not like he’s the ONLY boss where no-res matters.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Enundr.9305:

ive done him a couple of times prior to the path on the 28th , he seemd harder after (and i musta gotten a bugged version that was throwing the 30k go straight to pure dead bolts with only 2 grubs?). still a respawn timer for dungeon wps in general is not unreasonable and still prevents rez rushing while still giving ample time to revive a player.

While a few people may be clamoring for this to be added, I would be disappointed if they bowed to pressure to return that feature. I do not feel that it added anything to the game, in fact it brought in tactics to abuse the system. Since that change, I have seen a major uptick in players actually rezzing downed charas. This is a Good Thing™.

With that change they set the framework to add more waypoints to dungeons. Now if the party does fail, the run back will be much shorter.

to return the feature it would have had to have been there prior , we didnt have a timer at all before not being able to incombat , this is a compromising feature , its not the same as rez rushing , but its not as stupid punishing as the current , and like i said i see as much (exaggeration there) rezzing now as i did before. so again it would not affect being able to rez if there was a timer, to say it would is just being silly at that point , it means they have to waste there time trying to fight a man down waiting for a timer when they could make an attempt (in all likelyness die but still) to rez said person , if they cant then the person can respawn after said time and come back and HELP with the fight again. problem solved. to be dissappointed in the fact that it prevents rez rushing while still making people happy? it still does the same job that this new (and ABUSIVE to players) system they added in does , just not as ridiculous and an annoying way to drive players away. how would you be dissappointed in that? like i said , still does the same job , still gives ppl ample time to rez , still lets ppl rez after a certain time frame so not to annoy players for being punished (possible because they have a choppy connection and died because of it?) for getting knocked into the dirt by a boss.

Iehova.9518:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lupi is hard for most all players. If he is not hard for you, that is great. But for most players he is a difficult challenge.

Well, if they can’t kill Lupus, maybe they shouldn’t go to Arah?

And why on earth are y’all fixated on Lupus so much? It’s not like he’s the ONLY boss where no-res matters.

i was because i saw a random 30k hit with only 2 grubs and bypassed down state.

edit: it was a random bolt (not his charge , not his kick , not his aoe , but a random bolt that is not easily noticed)

also SynfulChaot , its more then a few ppl clamoring for this no rez rush system to get fixed , its only a few that defend it as is. atleast some of us want to compromise with a timer.
(reference to people ingame not forums , forums are the only place you see ppl defend it)

It already had “a timer”, time it took to run back. Adding 15 seconds or something hardly makes any difference, especially when they add more waypoints.
What you just want is that you can freely die and don’t care about team-mates.

Iehova.9518:

And why on earth are y’all fixated on Lupus so much? It’s not like he’s the ONLY boss where no-res matters.

Okay, list other bosses which can wipe your party while you attempt to rez, because I think that’s the only complain here.

Enundr.9305:

i was because i saw a random 30k hit with only 2 grubs and bypassed down state.

edit: it was a random bolt (not his charge , not his kick , not his aoe , but a random bolt that is not easily noticed)

Have you checked your combat log with that mythical 30k? No. You died to his AoE and you never saw it coming because some “smart” guy used projectile reflection/absorption skill on his shadowstep. There’s the only possible explanation. 1 hit, no matter how hard hitting will not bypass downed state. If you don’t believe me, make new Norn, go into Frostgorge Sound and get hit for 200k while you have 300hp. You’d be downed, not defeated.

Enundr.9305:

also SynfulChaot , its more then a few ppl clamoring for this no rez rush system to get fixed , its only a few that defend it as is. atleast some of us want to compromise with a timer.
(reference to people ingame not forums , forums are the only place you see ppl defend it)

I am not a hardcore player. I struggle with Arah and GL each time I go there. But the system was being abused, and badly. Even if they re-implement it with a timer, it will become abused again.

I highly recommend finding a group that may be able to teach you the tactics you need for the fight. Instead of spending time trying to get the system re-implemented, spend the time trying to learn GL and how to beat him.

haviz.1340:

Iehova.9518:

And why on earth are y’all fixated on Lupus so much? It’s not like he’s the ONLY boss where no-res matters.

Okay, list other bosses which can wipe your party while you attempt to rez, because I think that’s the only complain here.

Subject Alpha. But, like Lupicus, a good party can overcome the mistake, though not without effort.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Subject Alpha. But, like Lupicus, a good party can overcome the mistake, though not without effort.

Okay, there’s two now, anything else? Also, have in mind that both of those bosses are encountered in two last dungeons.

haviz.1340:

Okay, list other bosses which can wipe your party while you attempt to rez

Alpha.

because I think that’s the only complain here.

I’m personally kittening how no-WP applies to trash mobs as well. Which is kittening kittentarded.

haviz.1340:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Subject Alpha. But, like Lupicus, a good party can overcome the mistake, though not without effort.

Okay, there’s two now, anything else? Also, have in mind that both of those bosses are encountered in two last dungeons.

Uh, couple bosses in CM. Can’t remember their names/paths, but I know my groups had severe difficulty with the one spamming symbols underneath herself, and the bandit final boss with all the poison AoEs. There’s also the first boss in TA’s U/U path, as sometimes her AoE skills are laid out directly in front of her and it’s difficult for the melee to avoid a hit that has almost no travel time. The giant worm at the START of TA has also been the bane of many players (myself included), mostly due to the number of lesser worms that spawn during the fight and spew tons of sludge-like AoEs all over the place. I know it’s easy to revive in TA, but it’s also easy to get downed there. Two of the end bosses almost HAVE to be fought at maximum range, because the rampant number of seed mortars or spiders is just too much for most groups to handle while trying to defeat it.

Kholer from AC can kill people without the experience against him, or people who just have bad luck the day they fight him. Colossus Rumblus is the same – his long-cast shout that makes the cieling fall has aggravated me a lot when a rock hits me from almost out of no-where.

Magg’s defense event, despite being nerfed into the ground, scares me half to death. First time I ran it post-nerf, I was constantly at low health and scrambling to kill the assassins while trying to sustain myself. Also, the defense event in path 3 has remain largely unchanged and I would not be surprised to hear of at least someone who wiped on it at least once, trying to clear it.

I mean, really. Every boss in this game has the potential to be difficult. Why aren’t they? Because we – the players – develop strategies to defeat them. Rez-rushing was one of them, but no longer is. Oh well. Now we have to learn to overcome these obstacles in new ways – ones that might involve a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in the beginning, but will ultimately help keep our repair costs down in the end.

Just a thought as I looked at all the new posts this morning, but why not alter the “rescue” skills to the following:

A.) Grant all classes teammate-revive mechanics that don’t currently have one.

B.) Make these skills revive downed players with no cost, or at maximum, the cost of a mesmer’s Illusion of Life, which just downs the player again if they don’t kill something in 15 seconds. This allows everyone to pick up their allies, but since they all have CDs, you can’t get a freebie if you go down every five seconds.

C.) Allow these revive skills to work on “defeated” players. It does not have to be a full revive (or what would the point of the downed state be?), but it can either grant a passive healing effect while defeated, or automatically heal about 50% of their health.

Warriors have a great revive skill in their elite, Warbanner. Mesmers have a good one too, though it demands players revived by its effects to run out of the fight if there is nothing to kill in the short time they have. Rangers can revive people without needing to line up an AoE skill over a downed or defeated player, and can still shoot at their enemies the entire time. There are other classes with similar skills, and in fights that the group knows are going to be tough, these kinds of abilities can be lifesavers. They aren’t there to collect dust on your character pane!

EDIT:

Iehova.9518:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lupi is hard for most all players. If he is not hard for you, that is great. But for most players he is a difficult challenge.

Well, if they can’t kill Lupus, maybe they shouldn’t go to Arah?

And why on earth are y’all fixated on Lupus so much? It’s not like he’s the ONLY boss where no-res matters.

That is EXACTLY why I don’t go to Arah – can’t kill the giant puppy.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Enundr.9305:

also SynfulChaot , its more then a few ppl clamoring for this no rez rush system to get fixed , its only a few that defend it as is. atleast some of us want to compromise with a timer.
(reference to people ingame not forums , forums are the only place you see ppl defend it)

I am not a hardcore player. I struggle with Arah and GL each time I go there. But the system was being abused, and badly. Even if they re-implement it with a timer, it will become abused again.

I highly recommend finding a group that may be able to teach you the tactics you need for the fight. Instead of spending time trying to get the system re-implemented, spend the time trying to learn GL and how to beat him.

haviz.1340:

Iehova.9518:

And why on earth are y’all fixated on Lupus so much? It’s not like he’s the ONLY boss where no-res matters.

Okay, list other bosses which can wipe your party while you attempt to rez, because I think that’s the only complain here.

Subject Alpha. But, like Lupicus, a good party can overcome the mistake, though not without effort.

and how would a timer make it any different other then settle alot of players getting annoyed by this system? itd be hard to abuse , i already rarely see ppl make attempts to revive a fully defeated player, much less downed , atleast with a timer its not as ridiculous in punishment for things that possibly bug out or for ppl who get some random lag spike , tell me how thats fair to them , tell me how they can counter / leanr to defeat bugs and lag spikes?

haviz.1340:

Iehova.9518:

And why on earth are y’all fixated on Lupus so much? It’s not like he’s the ONLY boss where no-res matters.

Okay, list other bosses which can wipe your party while you attempt to rez, because I think that’s the only complain here.

Enundr.9305:

i was because i saw a random 30k hit with only 2 grubs and bypassed down state.

edit: it was a random bolt (not his charge , not his kick , not his aoe , but a random bolt that is not easily noticed)

Have you checked your combat log with that mythical 30k? No. You died to his AoE and you never saw it coming because some “smart” guy used projectile reflection/absorption skill on his shadowstep. There’s the only possible explanation. 1 hit, no matter how hard hitting will not bypass downed state. If you don’t believe me, make new Norn, go into Frostgorge Sound and get hit for 200k while you have 300hp. You’d be downed, not defeated.

i didnt check cause i was out of red circles and whole freaking party was getting the same thing , like i said its possible he bugged out. does the reference bugged out elude you? =P

We already had a system with a time (time to run back).

Also if you consider wp-zerging as a strategy….

Keyce.8137:

-snip-

What I’m seeing here is “I can’t improve”. None of those bosses requires brilliant strategy of zerg rushing. If you keep dying, it’s time to reconsider your current approach and zerg rushing will never do it. You’ll never improve if you keep zerg rushing instead of killing the boss without dying.

Enundr.9305:

i didnt check cause i was out of red circles and whole freaking party was getting the same thing , like i said its possible he bugged out. does the reference bugged out elude you? =P

No one ever reported that fairy tail of yours. Either you were extremely unlucky which shouldn’t happen again and you have nothing to worry about or you can’t admit you died to AoE.

haviz.1340:

Keyce.8137:

-snip-

What I’m seeing here is “I can’t improve”. None of those bosses requires brilliant strategy of zerg rushing. If you keep dying, it’s time to reconsider your current approach and zerg rushing will never do it. You’ll never improve if you keep zerg rushing instead of killing the boss without dying.

Enundr.9305:

i didnt check cause i was out of red circles and whole freaking party was getting the same thing , like i said its possible he bugged out. does the reference bugged out elude you? =P

No one ever reported that fairy tail of yours. Either you were extremely unlucky which shouldn’t happen again and you have nothing to worry about or you can’t admit you died to AoE.

yes cause the concept of a FEW people getting a rare bug is unheard of that its IMPOSSIBLE , if everyone doesnt get the bug and only a few do then its not a real bug amiright? (rolls eyes)

Enundr.9305:

yes cause the concept of a FEW people getting a rare bug is unheard of that its IMPOSSIBLE , if everyone doesnt get the bug and only a few do then its not a real bug amiright? (rolls eyes)

I’m the one who should roll eye in that situation. You’re the only one who spews such nonsense even after I’ve told you that one attack cannot bring you to defeated state.

haviz.1340:

Enundr.9305:

yes cause the concept of a FEW people getting a rare bug is unheard of that its IMPOSSIBLE , if everyone doesnt get the bug and only a few do then its not a real bug amiright? (rolls eyes)

I’m the one who should roll eye in that situation. You’re the only one who spews such nonsense even after I’ve told you that one attack cannot bring you to defeated state.

brought our whole group to that state , we were all going wtf at that point , hence why i said it was a possible bug , rather then just say outright hes way too strong (even if he is)

Enundr.9305:

brought our whole group to that state , we were all going wtf at that point , hence why i said it was a possible bug , rather then just say outright hes way too strong (even if he is)

There is no bug with going straight to defeated state.

Enundr.9305:

and how would a timer make it any different other then settle alot of players getting annoyed by this system? itd be hard to abuse , i already rarely see ppl make attempts to revive a fully defeated player, much less downed , atleast with a timer its not as ridiculous in punishment for things that possibly bug out or for ppl who get some random lag spike , tell me how thats fair to them , tell me how they can counter / leanr to defeat bugs and lag spikes?

If you are never seeing people attempting to revive and assist their teammates, that is a failure of the party, not of the game.

And, as before, you cannot design around people with bad connections. You also cannot design around bugs, except to remove the bugs as they are found. If you still think that previous run of yours was bugged, submit a bug report to bring it to ANet’s attention. But noone here has even heard of a bug like that, thus the skepticism.

My solution to this problem? Allow people to wp back during combat…but the WPs have a cage that locks you inside them that only disappears when all players are out of combat.

Now, you can /dance if you’re in a group that doesn’t rez.

haviz.1340:

Keyce.8137:

-snip-

What I’m seeing here is “I can’t improve”. None of those bosses requires brilliant strategy of zerg rushing. If you keep dying, it’s time to reconsider your current approach and zerg rushing will never do it. You’ll never improve if you keep zerg rushing instead of killing the boss without dying.

Enundr.9305:

i didnt check cause i was out of red circles and whole freaking party was getting the same thing , like i said its possible he bugged out. does the reference bugged out elude you? =P

No one ever reported that fairy tail of yours. Either you were extremely unlucky which shouldn’t happen again and you have nothing to worry about or you can’t admit you died to AoE.

Aye. Granted, all of those bosses I HAVE had difficulty with before, but repetition with a coordinated group of friends has made it easier to deal with to the point that I am likely able to PuG a dungeon without much of a problem anymore. I got my behind kicked, I tried again and again and again until I got it right. The only dungeons I can say offer me a hard time are CM and Arah, but only because I do not travel to those dungeons often and fight the bosses there. I don’t plan on returning to CM or Arah in the near future, though I will be more open to the former than the latter. GL is probably the only boss I am unwilling to “learn” at this point. Someday in the far-off future, maybe. I am not sure.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Enundr.9305:

and how would a timer make it any different other then settle alot of players getting annoyed by this system? itd be hard to abuse , i already rarely see ppl make attempts to revive a fully defeated player, much less downed , atleast with a timer its not as ridiculous in punishment for things that possibly bug out or for ppl who get some random lag spike , tell me how thats fair to them , tell me how they can counter / leanr to defeat bugs and lag spikes?

If you are never seeing people attempting to revive and assist their teammates, that is a failure of the party, not of the game.

And, as before, you cannot design around people with bad connections. You also cannot design around bugs, except to remove the bugs as they are found. If you still think that previous run of yours was bugged, submit a bug report to bring it to ANet’s attention. But noone here has even heard of a bug like that, thus the skepticism.

again your wrong , the suggested respawn timer would actually benefit for ppl who do have chopy connections , what you CANNOT design a game around is for elitists , you end up driving the average player away for a fanbase you can NEVER satisfy.
And there is far more average player (ones that want a fix to this “fix” to respawning in dungeon) then there are elitists (general group that loves this system to no end) , even though it doesnt make the bosses more challening , just makes the dungeons STUPID to even want to do , so heres hoping theyll atleast consider a respawn timer BEFORE they lose everyone. im done here for now , the system as is is stupid and pointless and wont keep people around for long. a respawn timer WILL actually fix it while still preventing rez rushing , if the fact that most groups do actually still ignore rezzing in boss fights because it has a higher chance to get them killed , then taking out the ability to respawn in combat WILL NOT FIX THAT , and you still only annoy far more trying to do it. im out.

Enundr.9305:

SynfulChaot.3169:

If you are never seeing people attempting to revive and assist their teammates, that is a failure of the party, not of the game.

And, as before, you cannot design around people with bad connections. You also cannot design around bugs, except to remove the bugs as they are found. If you still think that previous run of yours was bugged, submit a bug report to bring it to ANet’s attention. But noone here has even heard of a bug like that, thus the skepticism.

again your wrong , the suggested respawn timer would actually benefit for ppl who do have chopy connections , what you CANNOT design a game around is for elitists , you end up driving the average player away for a fanbase you can NEVER satisfy.

Yes, a timer would benefit those players along with all other players. I am not denying that fact. I am just stating that re-adding WP use during combat could have ill effects. Especially as they will be adding more WPs to dungeons soon. Players coming back into battle from a WP right outside the fight? Even on a timer, that could massively shift the tactics away from rezzing those downed in favour of waiting for the to rez on the timer.

Dungeons were designed to be highly focused on teamwork. The current res-rushing mechanic discourages the type of behavior we intended when a fellow player goes down. We hope that by eliminating res-rushing, we’ll bring dungeons more in-line with our original design goals, which are based around team play and strategy.

Link can be found here.

I am sorry, but no amount of limited use of waypoints is going to stop players from not helping each other out. The removal of waypoint use in combat was done specifically to promote players reviving their teammates. If you put waypoint use on a timer, then you’re just forcing dead players to sit and wait until they can respawn and zerg the dungeon’s boss/event all over again, while one person (supposedly) tries not to die while waiting on 1-4 of his teammates to rejoin the fight.

At that point it’s still a group of people acting solo; they are not trying to succeed as a team watching each others’ backs, but as a group of people doing their own things their own way and expecting it to work. It will not. Not in a game like GW2, where teamwork is not only strongly encouraged, but oftentimes mandatory (such as in dungeons). Players and classes must be able to work off of each other in order to succeed in dungeons.

Lastly, many classes have auto-revive mechanics (like the warrior’s warbanner). Perhaps you might find the dungeons you run to be a lot easier if a couple of your teammates used these in place of another utility. They are literally lifesavers.

Literally.

Keyce.8137:

Dungeons were designed to be highly focused on teamwork. The current res-rushing mechanic discourages the type of behavior we intended when a fellow player goes down. We hope that by eliminating res-rushing, we’ll bring dungeons more in-line with our original design goals, which are based around team play and strategy.

Link can be found here.

I am sorry, but no amount of limited use of waypoints is going to stop players from not helping each other out. The removal of waypoint use in combat was done specifically to promote players reviving their teammates. If you put waypoint use on a timer, then you’re just forcing dead players to sit and wait until they can respawn and zerg the dungeon’s boss/event all over again, while one person (supposedly) tries not to die while waiting on 1-4 of his teammates to rejoin the fight.

At that point it’s still a group of people acting solo; they are not trying to succeed as a team watching each others’ backs, but as a group of people doing their own things their own way and expecting it to work. It will not. Not in a game like GW2, where teamwork is not only strongly encouraged, but oftentimes mandatory (such as in dungeons). Players and classes must be able to work off of each other in order to succeed in dungeons.

Lastly, many classes have auto-revive mechanics (like the warrior’s warbanner). Perhaps you might find the dungeons you run to be a lot easier if a couple of your teammates used these in place of another utility. They are literally lifesavers.

Literally.

though i feel like id get a better listener from a brick wall ill lay it out simple , this system was put in before ALL the boss changed / rebalancing for it , aka NOT A GREAT IDEA , it is therefore still promoting ppl to not revive others when they have a VERY HIGH CHANCE of getting dropped by said boss / small group of enemies , thereby NOT PROMOTING strategy other then hoping they can get reinforncements (aka teamate respawning) , there is no strategy as it is , teammwork ends up with you getting punished trying to save a teammate that is down , and these rez skills DO NOT WORK ON FULLY DEAD PLAYERS , only DOWNED PLAYERS that you can get up super fast if the enemy is not sitting on them , in which case i go back to have a high chance to get killed attempting to rez them , Lupi is renowned for sitting on someone after he charges them , and an unseccusful dodge (aka lag making that SUPER EASY) gaurentees their death , nothing justifies this system as it is. now im out , i only came back on to this waste of time btw because im busy doing stuff around the house.

PS: i still see ppl using this strategy in major dungeon events that arent bosses , so a timer would make a difference….how? they still dont revive you and still can find a way to do said thing , i will not say what it is cause its one of the few things left dungeon wise that even makes me want to continue playing the game , and barely at that. hopefully theyll notice this before players flatout quit for ESO…..not a smart choice imo but whatever , the warning has generally been made.

Enundr.9305:

though i feel like id get a better listener from a brick wall ill lay it out simple , this system was put in before ALL the boss changed / rebalancing for it , aka NOT A GREAT IDEA , it is therefore still promoting ppl to not revive others when they have a VERY HIGH CHANCE of getting dropped by said boss / small group of enemies , thereby NOT PROMOTING strategy other then hoping they can get reinforncements (aka teamate respawning) , there is no strategy as it is , teammwork ends up with you getting punished trying to save a teammate that is down , and these rez skills DO NOT WORK ON FULLY DEAD PLAYERS , only DOWNED PLAYERS that you can get up super fast if the enemy is not sitting on them , in which case i go back to have a high chance to get killed attempting to rez them , Lupi is renowned for sitting on someone after he charges them , and an unseccusful dodge (aka lag making that SUPER EASY) gaurentees their death , nothing justifies this system as it is. now im out , i only came back on to this waste of time btw because im busy doing stuff around the house.

PS: i still see ppl using this strategy in major dungeon events that arent bosses , so a timer would make a difference….how? they still dont revive you and still can find a way to do said thing , i will not say what it is cause its one of the few things left dungeon wise that even makes me want to continue playing the game , and barely at that. hopefully theyll notice this before players flatout quit for ESO…..not a smart choice imo but whatever , the warning has generally been made.

A brick wall is going to be a better listener than I am at this point.

I am sorry that you are finding people who refuse to pick up other players in every single dungeon you run, but I seriously doubt that the majority of players in this game are running across the same ill luck as you are. I’ve run dungeons with only one friend and three other PuG’d people pulled from some crazy LFG thingy I keep hearing about but have no interest in using (like my friend does). I have met players of all kinds because of that, from the friendly to the rude; from the best engineer ever to the GS burst warrior whose entire damage is accomplished solely while in the downed state. Okay, I am making a hyperbole on the warrior, but you get the idea.

These people still revive others if you talk to them, even to ask just that.

You are not required to revive a dead or downed person all at once. I admit that sometimes you are glued to the person you are reviving, but I simply click both my mouse buttons and I run away from their downed/dead selves to evade the incoming AoEs, and return when it’s safe to do so. It’s even easier (though longer) if the player is fully dead, because they won’t lose their revive bar while in that state.

As well, players who are dealing with high latency likely already know they are disadvantaged, and unless they are very good at evading attacks despite this, should be traiting/gearing more towards survival over damage. Not every fight is Giganticus Lupicus. In fact, I can confidently say that somewhere around 80-90% of all dungeon fights are not him – and I haven’t even run all paths of Arah successfully yet.

It’s only the most elite (not to be confused with elitist) players who are able to run Arah as a glass cannon warrior, solo. For everyone else – myself included – you need to pick up defensive traits and stats to survive those kinds of encounters.

Your build has to be able to synergize with other players. That means it has to be durable enough to take a hit now and then, most times when you don’t want it to happen at all. Like when you are trying to revive someone.

I don’t want to learn how to beat the encounter. I want to bang my head repeatedly till the boss dies so I can has my shinies. Anet, how dare you take away my ability to bang my head till bosses die.

I personally support the change, it encourages people to revive each other. Granted I have yet to run Arah and meet this notorious Lupi. But it encourages a level of team play that was never necessary before when WP rushing. This way, it isn’t one person spending a fortune on repairs, it’s everyone unless they work as a TEAM. As I said before I’ve never faced Lupi but most one shots from bosses have a bit of a cooldown or backing off period, if everyone swarms a downed player he’ll be up in about 2 seconds… (I’m really hoping some Arah veteran can back me up here and Lupi isn’t just absolutely impossible to revive a downed teammate, also Ash Legion Spy kits….)