Guild Wars 2

Lightning Flash while Fiery Rush doesn’t abort all movement, you just get stuck for tenth of a second and then keep moving the last tiny bit.

So it’s an exploit for a tenth of a second and a tiny bit legit

Spiky Muffin.9180:

This discussion is leading to the same results as always…
Anet seems to have forgotten how to create/support a good game when gw2 was launched
My reference is mainly to gw1 and uw. Although you were heavily relying on SF there were more viable classes than just 3/8. For record runs you couldn’t just use any professions ofc but for regular fast and casual runs you could even take an ele/monk/warrior/derv/ritualist spiker or use ele/ranger/mesmer/assa/derv t4 to name a few examples. The more I play gw2 the less entertaining it is since you don’t have to bother finding good traits for a specific dungeon or think about which build to use since the common builds are the best in 90% of all situations you can get in dungeons. I really miss the theorycrafting aspect that gw1 had and good group comp alone not being enough for decent runs.

Honestly, the comparison isn’t the same. In UW, the main 3 professions used were Ssin, Ele and Ranger. Although you could also use a mes tank etc, it just happened less and it were mainly the pro’s who did in the first place.

In DoA, you basically had 4 professions: Ssin, Mes, Monk, Ele. Yes you could use ranger tank in casual runs, but unless you were solo tanking, there was no point in doing it really.

But the thing is, in GW1, that didn’t matter that much at all, because getting a character to max level and fully geared in GW1 was a matter of hours, whereas in GW2 it might take you a couple of days. So in GW1, access to different professions was a lot different from what it is now.

It’s more than a tenth of a second. But what if flash wouldn’t make you stuck while using rush? Still being in gray area?

Like I’ve said few times before, when I first heard about rush+flash I thought that you were supposed to flash in front of your enemy after getting behind him to get more parts of trail, just like with whirl+flash. Also, keep in mind that I got 8 hits with whirl why it normally can’t hit more than 4 times. So it actually doubled the effectiveness of whirl.

In my opinion standing still after lightning flash is just a design issue. If we kept moving it wouldn’t even change much, together with timewarp it would still fully proc.

Dub.1273:

In my opinion standing still after lightning flash is just a design issue. If we kept moving it wouldn’t even change much, together with timewarp it would still fully proc.

Exactly my point. So what does it make non-legit?

I think you mean… What does it DEFINE as non-legit huehuehuehue

Huehuehue

Huehue

Hue

haviz.1340:

I know many people consider blinking during rush as something bordeline exploit but what if teleport wouldn’t make you stuck in place?

Is this an exploit to you?

Nope. You aren’t breaking a skill or glitching an animation.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

haviz.1340:

I know many people consider blinking during rush as something bordeline exploit but what if teleport wouldn’t make you stuck in place?

Is this an exploit to you?

Nope. You aren’t breaking a skill or glitching an animation.

Making a skill hit twice as often is much more exploit’ish than simply teleporting to get more procs off. What people whine about is the damage output and the resulting viability of elementalists, who are hands down too hard to play for most “speedrunners” out here.

Dub.1273:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

haviz.1340:

I know many people consider blinking during rush as something bordeline exploit but what if teleport wouldn’t make you stuck in place?

Is this an exploit to you?

Nope. You aren’t breaking a skill or glitching an animation.

Making a skill hit twice as often is much more exploit’ish than simply teleporting to get more procs off.

You’re being coy. You know full well there is a big difference between hitting twice with whirl and hitting 40 more times with rush. Jaywalking is not treated the same as murder.

An exploit is a combination both of what you do and the results of doing it. Using an exploit to jump over a wall which saves you 10 seconds on a 10 minute dungeon run is an exploit, but it’s nothing compared to jumping over a wall which skips you directly to the end boss and allows completing the path in 45 seconds.

This is why it’s so difficult to come up with community standards for speed runs, because it requires and nuanced view of things as well as having to deal with sophists who pretend there are no gray areas, so they trap people into saying something hypocritical for some personal trolling satisfaction.

It’s more like 28 additional procs which makes it about 1.4 times as effective as without lightning flash. Using flash to hit 8 times with whirl instead makes it 2.0 times as effective as without.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Nope. You aren’t breaking a skill or glitching an animation.

So if flash worked properly it would be perfectly fine to teleport back?

What’s better…

1. Having a million dollars in the bank and having it multiplied by 1.4×.

2. Having ten dollars in the bank and having it multiplied by 2×.

?

What point are you trying to make with this excursion into left field that you took us on?

Does anyone here actually follow any speed running communities? I’m beginning to think not…

Someone please explain to me why a good chunk of the conversation went to “this is boring to watch” and “this comp is unoriginal”. What does that have to do with speed clearing? The point of speed clearing is to I dunno, clear the dungeon as fast as possible.

Talking about what are exploits and where the game boundaries are is fine. Talking about “entertainment” and creating all kinds of artificial handicaps and excluding classes because you don’t like that the certain comp or strategy is fastest is counterproductive to speed running.

Why would we have to follow any speed running communities? As far as I’m aware, we are not trying to mimic them.

Community based competitions quite often have additional rules. If we can make it more fun to play and more fun to watch why wouldn’t we do it? Is there a reason why you would want to run a low skill FGS, 4w/1m or 3w/1g/1m group?

If you are trying to set a record, why would you intentionally handicap yourself by running a less than ideal set up? Or, even worse IMO, forcing other people to run a less ideal set up just because you don’t want to run what is currently the fastest?

If you’re about putting on a show, that’s a totally separate thing. And not a bad thing. But if you want the records to really stand for “fastest clear”, then you have to accept that certain groups and comps are faster. Otherwise you have fastest clear* with the footnote of “Not actually the fastest clear”.

Maybe set a separate category for not using duplicate professions. But I wouldn’t go much beyond that, or everyone’s going to have a record in their own category and none of them will mean anything.

The thing is pretty much no one really cares that you cleared dungeon fast by using faceroll comp or severe exploits. You can easily see this by observing people’s reactions to speedclears.
If we are going to have some rules (kind of point of this topic) then might as well go one step further and actually make it fun and interesting. And if we want people (even developers) to get interested on this kind of a thing it must be interesting.

Wethospu.6437:

The thing is pretty much no one really cares that you cleared dungeon fast by using faceroll comp or severe exploits. You can easily see this by observing people’s reactions to speedclears.
If we are going to have some rules (kind of point of this topic) then might as well go one step further and actually make it fun and interesting. And if we want people (even developers) to get interested on this kind of a thing it must be interesting.

<3 <3 <3

What you’re wanting, more variety, I’m all for. As much as I love warrior, I do want to see some more parity between the professions. You can clear the dungeons pretty fast with any group of semi-competent players.

But the subject is records. Not about speed runs in general. In that respect, a record that isn’t actually the fastest is no more the “legit record” than one that uses bizarre exploits to skip around the map and around bosses. It’s one thing to set limits against some egregious exploits, which is what I saw the point of the thread to be about, but another to start setting a bunch of restrictions that aren’t core to the game (Anet doesn’t care how many Warriors you bring).

I could see a category for any comp (ie the standard stacking of classes), and a category for unique classes. But beyond that, where do you draw the line?

Do we suddenly have a category for Only Rangers? Only staff mesmers? No consumables? Whatever you want as long no one uses X ability? All Cleric gear? Because it’s different and entertaining? They might be interesting speed runs, but when you can tailor a category just to say you’re the fastest at it, the time has little value as a record.

They don’t seem to care much about exploits either. Or stuff like FGS. You have your opinion what’s legit, other people have theirs. There is no ultimate “true record”.

Speedclear community is quite small at the moment. We can easily get necessary guilds together and decide appropriate rules. If people feel that restricting class stacking is a stupid idea that’s fine with me. But that’s not the only thing we have to decide.

Also if people feel like having dozens of categories then that is an option too. However, I doubt anyone wants “Only Rangers” or “Only staff mesmers” category.

Class stacking should be allowed even if its quite boring.

This is why no one takes GW2 speedrunning seriously. In any other popular game that’s speedran they have different categories for exploits so they’re all still valid. Eg. The big bug skips in Ocarina of Time.

You know which records are indisputable? Those accomplished in the Ascension Challenge ! (check my signature)

As long as a tactict don’t “break” the game to be faster (see: glitching trough doors with Res Scrolls – if you what i mean, GW1 vets…) everything is fair imo.

What’s with the unnecessary hate towards Define and Shadeus himself? Just because he might have a different opinion from some of you, doesn’t necessarily mean that he disrespects your record runs while using “these exploits”, which is clearly what you’re doing here.
I personally don’t give a crap. I game for fun. I joined a “hardcore” guild to have fun first and foremost. Also, guilds challenging each other is fun as well, and I think that competition should be kept healthy and respectful towards others.
Instead I notice constant hate thrown towards somebody who does not have same opinion as others. Not the mention some of the really disrespectful comments from “rT” guild members (seen in signatures), which are completely ignorant and not productive for a discussion.

Predator, you have what some would call a bias viewpoint. You should actually look at what goes on from both guilds, mostly Debby.

Funny how Define are a hardcore dungeon guild and yet never post here unless they’re attacked and contribute practically zero to the dungeon meta, unlike some of the guys here who actually experiment with weapons, builds and don’t just fall asleep with 3 war 1 guard 1 mes dungeon parties but optimise themselves beyond the faceroll class composition.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Predator, you have what some would call a bias viewpoint. You should actually look at what goes on from both guilds, mostly Debby.

Not sure I understand what you were trying to say here, if you can rephrase what you were trying to say I would appreciate it, so I can give a reply.
But I can say that you are wrong for me having a biased opinion. I am completely neutral in this particular discussion, which has derailed into hate towards somebody out there.
See post above me.
Ignorant unnecessary hate for no (important) reason(s). This I don’t understand.

I’ll be honest. Game has gone to complete kitten. It’s wasted away and Anet doesn’t give a kitten. It’s turned into a huge money spin for NCsoft to milk casuals. However. For me personally, I just like hanging around like minded people. The game… I would have quit long ago, but I stick around for the people. I like ‘elitist’ scumbaggery, it’s fun to me. min/maxxing.. it’s the only thing left to do. All there is left is pushing at the envelope, because this game doesn’t give any challenges, it doesn’t give any real new content, that’s something, that we, that players have to unfortunately do for ourselves. If this game was offline, and instead of other players, you had heros that you could modify builds on (kind of like GW1) and there were no forums, how many people would still be trying to make records then? I really wonder. There is a social and competitive aspect which is one of the only things holding this dieing dungeon community together. It’s pathetic, but to hell with it, I’m at least having fun.. even if I have to make it for myself.

What was defines goal by creating that video anyway? Cause it seemed to me like gathering support to stop us from using FGS in speedruns because you didnt like your records being beaten by using something you refuse to use.

Predator.9214:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Predator, you have what some would call a bias viewpoint. You should actually look at what goes on from both guilds, mostly Debby.

Not sure I understand what you were trying to say here, if you can rephrase what you were trying to say I would appreciate it, so I can give a reply.
But I can say that you are wrong for me having a biased opinion. I am completely neutral in this particular discussion, which has derailed into hate towards somebody out there.
See post above me.
Ignorant unnecessary hate for no (important) reason(s). This I don’t understand.

The context comes from outside of this forum. It isn’t unjustified distaste towards HC, I think you’ll find they even aggravated it. Reddit and youtube are the main sources for all of this. Again, most of that was Debby making stupid claims and statements. We don’t need to have this discussion here, however. It just so happens that the topic of HC was brought up because they’re associated with speed runs and ‘FGS exploit’.

colesy.8490:

Funny how Define are a hardcore dungeon guild and yet never post here unless they’re attacked and contribute practically zero to the dungeon meta, unlike some of the guys here who actually experiment with weapons, builds and don’t just fall asleep with 3 war 1 guard 1 mes dungeon parties but optimise themselves beyond the faceroll class composition.

Well some members are posting on the dungeon forum

And for party composition, that’s true we like the 3 war / 1 mes / 1 guard party. But we also play with other party comp. One war can be replaced by an ele / thief / ranger / engineer. Even the mesmer can be replaced (see our HotW path 2 and 3 end boss kills)!

Tbh I don’t know. Nor do I care. It’s Shadeus’ opinion and I respect it. His decision.
He clearly stated that his intention was not to call on anyone in particular, just to notify his small youtube / guild wars 2 audience that he will not be making FGS speed run videos. And he has reasons for it. His reasons. Plus he stated that he does not look down on people who use it, and doesn’t have a problem with them at all, just that he himself will never do it.
But some apparently felt called out, and now decided to throw hate towards HC as a whole, and it’s members. Which is ignorant, especially in a discussion that had nothing to do with us and Shadeus himself.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Predator.9214:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Predator, you have what some would call a bias viewpoint. You should actually look at what goes on from both guilds, mostly Debby.

Not sure I understand what you were trying to say here, if you can rephrase what you were trying to say I would appreciate it, so I can give a reply.
But I can say that you are wrong for me having a biased opinion. I am completely neutral in this particular discussion, which has derailed into hate towards somebody out there.
See post above me.
Ignorant unnecessary hate for no (important) reason(s). This I don’t understand.

The context comes from outside of this forum. It isn’t unjustified distaste towards HC, I think you’ll find they even aggravated it. Reddit and youtube are the main sources for all of this. Again, most of that was Debby making stupid claims and statements. We don’t need to have this discussion here, however. It just so happens that the topic of HC was brought up because they’re associated with speed runs and ‘FGS exploit’.

What Debby does is her decision. And falls on her head. Whether it’s right or wrong. It’s her opinion, if you think it’s stupid, it’s fine, but it does not mean that you (not you particularly, but anyone) should not respect it.
What I was trying to comprehend here is, why was, in a discussion about speed clears, records, tactics and statistics, thread starting to derail towards hate and ignorance.

The best part about all of this is the ‘debate’ always turns into a bunch of monkeys throwing fecal matter at one another. I love GW2 dungeon forums, doesn’t matter what the subject is about, it’s always gonna have the same ending,

colesy.8490:

Funny how Define are a hardcore dungeon guild and yet never post here

They probably didn’t like the one and only time they interacted with this place with a thread made to gloat about their “superfarm”.

swiftpaw.6397:

The best part about all of this is the ‘debate’ always turns into a bunch of monkeys throwing fecal matter at one another. I love GW2 dungeon forums, doesn’t matter what the subject is about, it’s always gonna have the same ending,

Coming from somebody who’s posts are full of “fecal” throwing at others. Please try to be respectfull for once.

Nikaido.3457:

colesy.8490:

Funny how Define are a hardcore dungeon guild and yet never post here

They probably didn’t like the one and only time they interacted with this place with a thread made to gloat about their “superfarm”.

Well when Debby made that video, she wasn’t in the guild yet if I’m not wrong. When she posted the thread, she was a new member, and it was to let the community know about the TA farm which was about to be nerfed. So this has nothing to do with our guild…

Nikaido.3457:

colesy.8490:

Funny how Define are a hardcore dungeon guild and yet never post here

They probably didn’t like the one and only time they interacted with this place with a thread made to gloat about their “superfarm”.

Quick fyi, this post has been made by Debby before joining HC.
Jesus I must be missing something here, you guys are all over Define with hate.

Please “define” the hate.

huehuehue

Predator.9214:

Quick fyi, this post has been made by Debby before joining HC.
Jesus I must be missing something here, you guys are all over Define with hate.

Watch the video. Get the point.

That line right there, is a pretty good reason to have a negative opinion of the people in mention.

Jeremlloyd.6837:

colesy.8490:

Funny how Define are a hardcore dungeon guild and yet never post here unless they’re attacked and contribute practically zero to the dungeon meta, unlike some of the guys here who actually experiment with weapons, builds and don’t just fall asleep with 3 war 1 guard 1 mes dungeon parties but optimise themselves beyond the faceroll class composition.

Well some members are posting on the dungeon forum

And for party composition, that’s true we like the 3 war / 1 mes / 1 guard party. But we also play with other party comp. One war can be replaced by an ele / thief / ranger / engineer. Even the mesmer can be replaced (see our HotW path 2 and 3 end boss kills)!

Sure, some of you post when Shadeus gets attacked for the dumb FGS video, but what about beyond that?

You contribute a whopping jack all to the dungeon meta, you just follow the meta builds and run faceroll compositions rather than experimenting or theorising like Guang and Zelhyn currently are with staff ele, like Guang and Brazil did with Rangers in dungeons, and rT who try to constantly push the envelope on how fast you can clear content.

colesy.8490:

Jeremlloyd.6837:

colesy.8490:

Funny how Define are a hardcore dungeon guild and yet never post here unless they’re attacked and contribute practically zero to the dungeon meta, unlike some of the guys here who actually experiment with weapons, builds and don’t just fall asleep with 3 war 1 guard 1 mes dungeon parties but optimise themselves beyond the faceroll class composition.

Well some members are posting on the dungeon forum

And for party composition, that’s true we like the 3 war / 1 mes / 1 guard party. But we also play with other party comp. One war can be replaced by an ele / thief / ranger / engineer. Even the mesmer can be replaced (see our HotW path 2 and 3 end boss kills)!

Sure, some of you post when Shadeus gets attacked for the dumb FGS video, but what about beyond that?

You contribute a whopping jack all to the dungeon meta, you just follow the meta builds and run faceroll compositions rather than experimenting or theorising like Guang and Zelhyn currently are with staff ele, like Guang and Brazil did with Rangers in dungeons, and rT who try to constantly push the envelope on how fast you can clear content.

Well since those who do theocrafting only have a mesmer / war or guard, there’s only video about those professions.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Predator.9214:

Quick fyi, this post has been made by Debby before joining HC.
Jesus I must be missing something here, you guys are all over Define with hate.

Watch the video. Get the point.

That line right there, is a pretty good reason to have a negative opinion of the people in mention.

I admit I was a little uninformed on a particular matter, ‘cause I don’t find myself in these pointless conversations. Now I came across one while searching for a “healthy” discussion on the dungeon sub forum, go figure. Learn from mistakes.
Okay, you seem like someone who shows pinch of respect towards others, unlike some of “rT” ignorant individuals.
Do you even realize why he said that statement? The reason he kept saying that is because handful of you miss understood the point of his video.
He was talking to his YouTube audience. Not you. Not rT. Not DnT. His small 1k YouTube audience. They were requesting FGS videos, he simply replied to them, and them ONLY about his principles / opinions about FGS.
But no, somebody felt called out and hate started spreading like a plague. He makes another video trying to declare his intentions, gets miss understood again.
That’s the whole story.
Now is there a possibility of actually talking about the original topic, or is there more rage / hate to be released towards someone?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1mjre5/definehc_is_fiery_greatsword_an_exploit/

swiftpaw.6397:

I’ll be honest. Game has gone to complete kitten. It’s wasted away and Anet doesn’t give a kitten. It’s turned into a huge money spin for NCsoft to milk casuals. However. For me personally, I just like hanging around like minded people. The game… I would have quit long ago, but I stick around for the people. I like ‘elitist’ scumbaggery, it’s fun to me. min/maxxing.. it’s the only thing left to do. All there is left is pushing at the envelope, because this game doesn’t give any challenges, it doesn’t give any real new content, that’s something, that we, that players have to unfortunately do for ourselves. If this game was offline, and instead of other players, you had heros that you could modify builds on (kind of like GW1) and there were no forums, how many people would still be trying to make records then? I really wonder. There is a social and competitive aspect which is one of the only things holding this dieing dungeon community together. It’s pathetic, but to hell with it, I’m at least having fun.. even if I have to make it for myself.

I haven’t logged in in days and I don’t miss it one bit. Been having a blast with other games that are much better than GW2 even in their own flawed states.

Predator.9214:

swiftpaw.6397:

The best part about all of this is the ‘debate’ always turns into a bunch of monkeys throwing fecal matter at one another. I love GW2 dungeon forums, doesn’t matter what the subject is about, it’s always gonna have the same ending,

Coming from somebody who’s posts are full of “fecal” throwing at others. Please try to be respectfull for once.

This… is actually true.

Swiftpaw best troll NA