Guild Wars 2

What you need is two types of dungeons
A: Where people run the dungeon
B: Where people stand in a circle and loot a chest that spawns every 30 minutes.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I’m honestly waiting for a single well written or reasonable post explain to me why just skipping packs of mob without using any exploit is somehow a bad thing.

Fair enough, I guess.
But that’s kind of a misleading question.

Skipping is a symptom, not a disease.
It’s a sign that a large part of dungeon content isn’t entertaining and rewarding enough. How we feel about the symptom isn’t really relevant, because at the end of the day, no developer’s going to purposefully keep a large portion of dungeon content a boring and unrewarding experience just to maintain the status quo.

Skipping or not simply equates to being different ways of solving the issue of getting from point “A” to point “B”. Many modern games thankfully have given us many options to solve this with. There is no SINGLE solution for getting from Boss#1 to Boss#2.

IMHO: if the DEV’s wanted to ensure that we killed everything in every area, they surely could tie it to having a door/gate/invisible wall blocking (or not) the path! The DEV’s could also make the trash quick – so they could not be out ran – any number of things could of been implemented to force us to engage/kill everything if that is what they so desired.

While I have no other experience with Anet and don’t have a good read on their intentions, many other developers will place a few not entirely obvious easy routes or paths for players to find and use (if they so desire to). While I’ll tend to want to ‘experience everything’ the 1st time around and not make use of short cuts, I’ll ‘skip’ content that I’ve done before and offers no redeeming entertainment value.

Read the post Zencow referenced.

They aren’t blindly ignoring our actions-speak-louder-than-words feedback and purposefully avoiding improvement, it’s just taking some time to iterate it in the best possible way.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I’m honestly waiting for a single well written or reasonable post explain to me why just skipping packs of mob without using any exploit is somehow a bad thing.

Fair enough, I guess.
But that’s kind of a misleading question.

Skipping is a symptom, not a disease.
It’s a sign that a large part of dungeon content isn’t entertaining and rewarding enough. How we feel about the symptom isn’t really relevant, because at the end of the day, no developer’s going to purposefully keep a large portion of dungeon content a boring and unrewarding experience just to maintain the status quo.

To be fair it is very hard to create a dungeon that is interesting after like 20 run troughs. For example I really like fractals you get a nice variety of things to do and the mobs sometimes even drop well. Also fractals keeps getting harder which is making it interesting.
But you can’t expect that every dungeon in this game is desgined in a way that it is still interesting after 100 runs. I think they did a good job with fractals.

If I am anywhere else I will skip everything if it is possible with the group, because trash-mobs are not worth my time – MY time. If you believe it is worth killing mobs that are not required you are evaluating your time wrong, at least money-wise. Of course there are exceptions like first playtrough, but if you wan’t the money your time is better spent skipping the mobs and doing an additional path for more money.
Also some bosses are a exception, for example if your group is not braindead and knows how to dodge you should kill kohler. The problem here is: most people are braindead and don’t know how to dodge and die to kohler making it take so long that it isn’t worth killing him. You can always compare the time spent on killing a optional boss to farming orr/cof p1. If the money/time is better than orr/cof p1 money/time go for the kill, but most optional bosses and especially the trash lose here.

Yes, that is indeed a hard thing.
It seems like you’re just saying you don’t feel like you have enough incentive. Well, apparently, that’s being looked at. So, it sounds like everything is working out splendidly?

I’ll admit I’m not entirely sure I understood your post.

TL;DR all cooments.

just wanna throw this out there. it isn’t only the skippers that’s dushe baggs. tday i were with a group where 3 wanted to skip and 2 wanted to kill kholer. well, we had our arguments and the 3 of us gave in, on one agreement; that if the two that wanted to kill kholer died, we would skip him. (I don’t mind killing kholer if everybody stay alive and dps him.) so, it was a gentelmens agreement, i though. not 10% into kholers life they both died because of one pull in/whirlwind. so we said, lets skip now. and both left. wtf.

so don’t go with the argument “skippers are dushe bags” bacause there is dush bags on both sides!

i’m sorry if this post was irrelevant or just useless.

This is not the fault of the players. This is the fault of the designers.

Designers have a job to do. Design content with a set of rules. I doubt that skipping mobs is a valid ruleset. Sounds more like an oversight than anything else. Why spend all this developement time and resources to create content that can be skipped?

The players are seeking the reward in the lowest time possible. This is the path of least resistance which is totally normal human behavior. Even animals do this.

What is not normal, is developers developing content for nothing since the players will just skip it anyway.

The problem now is that the trash are simply not rewarding enough to kill. Simply increasing the rewards on them creates the risk of players entering a dungeon, killing some trash, and resetting, essentially skipping all but the trash. Putting barricades that prevent the player from advancing until the trash is cleared is forcing the players to do something that they clearly don’t want to do.

Some people suggested granting bonuses for vanquishing (100% clearing) the dungeons. Vanquishing grants no rewards if the dungeon is ended prematurely, and it can become tedious in dungeons where there are many enemies scattered in remote areas. If vanquishing is too time-consuming, players won’t even bother doing it.

An easy solution to this is to provide a small (perhaps 0.1%) Magic Find bonus for each enemy killed. Champions could give more (perhaps 1%). This has the effect of not granting improved rewards from the trash themselves but the potential rewards from the rest of the dungeon. For the MF bonus to have any worth, you still have to play the rest of the dungeon.

As it is, there is no reason to fight the vast majority of trash. A MF bonus provides significant enough of a reason (but not too much of a reason) without forcing players to do so, such as with doors or perma-aggro enemies.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Yes, that is indeed a hard thing.
It seems like you’re just saying you don’t feel like you have enough incentive. Well, apparently, that’s being looked at. So, it sounds like everything is working out splendidly?

I’ll admit I’m not entirely sure I understood your post.

Sorry was quite late here when I wrote all those words :S, also english is not my first language – probably easy to notice.
But yeah incentive is a good word for it. The incentive to kill mobs is just not high enough for me.
I think you understood it quite well =) and I think dungeon-wise they are doing alot of good things.

Personally, the issue for me is just when it involves exploits. I don’t really see how skipping via running /through/ a mountain is really something that should be allowed. Skipping via stealthing or otherwise cleverly avoiding mobs is just up to preference of the player. I understand the argument that some people will grief players by joining a group that advertised they weren’t skipping, and then skip to leave them with all the aggro. But that’s life. People exist who do nothing but get off trolling others. It happens every day in the real world, you can’t avoid it entirely. Just find people through trial and error who are like minded and enjoyable company and friend them and do stuff with them. It’s a highly social game, be more social. Skip if you want to skip, as long as it’s not exploiting, or don’t if you don’t want to. What’s so kitten complicated about that?

I like the way both sides think that people only do it the other way because they’re not “skilled” enough to do it their way…..
I prefer the middle ground of skipping the complete trash yet still killing the bosses and getting the chests,I find the extremes of both sides (kill everything/skip everything) unsatisfying