Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

That’s EXACTLY my point … you want to make it even less time, effort and difficult … and you also recognize that even now, people don’t do dungeons because of rewards. I mean … how you can you not see what you are asking for is inline with even fewer people being interested in dungeons because logically, it follows that if Anet just eliminate the trash mobs, your rewards have to be inline with that level of easy, fast and effortless activity? I can only shake my head at the fact you don’t see this. if they remove trash, then your rewards shouldn’t be any better than an openworld boss mob.

Because even now it’s still too long and the reward is not good. Removing the trash mobs will let more people to do it because it would spend much less time.

Tell me which group of people love to do dungeons because there are tons trash mobs for them to spend time to clear? I’ve seen people with interest to know the story, get the skin or group up to fight bosses, but not with the love of trash mob cleaning.

The reward need buff up if they want to change it, you don’t seem to understand it at all. The current reward DOES NOT MATCH its length or difficulty. It was terrible and not wortyh compare to its length and difficulty to players, so both ends need some working. The length needs to reduced and the rewards need to be brought up. I don’t get that “the reward needs to be nerfed with the length reduced” idea.

ProtoGunner.4953:

With a zerker group consisting of 1-2 eles and some other standard stuff (chrono, ps warrior etc.) they go down fairly fast. A group dies within 10 seconds. So why make them easier anyway? Also, the masses do it: we usually kill most mobs in CM dungeon and after 3 paths you have quite a lot of bags and loot which give you the sought after t3-4 mats.

You don’t meet with zerkers everytime, and most of the zerkers want to skip up.

OK let’s have a logical approach here. Anet set a certain reward for certain content. What you or I think is appropriate is irrelevant, or any other player. So logically, it follows that if Anet makes rewards easier to get in dungeons, they are going to also reconsider looking at what rewards you get. The reward doesn’t match the length and difficulty? Do we play the same game here? Either I’m really awesome at dungeons or you aren’t … dungeons are easy and they are short. I mean, if there isn’t a demonstration of honesty here, there isn’t much to discuss. There are open world events harder than some dungeon runs.

I don’t need to argue with you further. If the most pressing issue for Anet to improve dungeons is to simply eliminate what amounts to a minor annoyance, then it would seem to me that dungeons are in a pretty awesome place right now. I know you don’t feel that way and many others don’t either, so logically, I don’t think you can continue to point to trash mob removal as THE main fix to making the best improvement to dungeons.

OK, I’m done now. You can take your trash mob drum and go beat on it in the corner.

Obtena.7952:

OK let’s have a logical approach here. Anet set a certain reward for certain content. What you or I think is appropriate is irrelevant, or any other player. So logically, it follows that if Anet makes rewards easier to get in dungeons, they are going to also reconsider looking at what rewards you get. The reward doesn’t match the length and difficulty? Do we play the same game here? That’s besides the point of the thread anyways.

I don’t need to argue with you further. If the most pressing issue for Anet to improve dungeons is to simply eliminate what amounts to a minor annoyance, then it would seem to me that dungeons are in a pretty awesome place right now. I know you don’t feel that way and many others don’t either, so logically, I don’t think you can continue to point to trash mob removal as the key to making dungeons better.

OK, I’m done now. You can take your trash mob drum and go beat on it in the corner.

It’s not what I THINK, it’s what THE PLAYERS ARE THINKING. Especially after all the new content coming out, there are so many ways to get better reward with less time and effort. The reward might be ok at that time, when the dungeons were released, but not now. It happens in tons of MMOs, older content will get nerfed because they are no longer top tier anymore.

WHY didn’t the players do dungeons much? Because it’s no longer worthy to do so, then to make it worthy, of course the length has to be reduced and might need better reward. I don’t get why is it so hard to understand.

Yes, you speak for all the players. I forgot. How silly of me. Everyone who runs dungeons biggest concern is the minor annoyance of running past trash mobs they don’t have to fight anyways. You win.

Obtena.7952:

Yes, you speak for all the players. I forgot. How silly of me. Everyone who runs dungeons biggest concern is the annoyance of trash mobs they don’t have to fight. You win.

I don’t speak for them, the dungeons’ status told us how do they think.

Anyone here think the dungeons are popular now?

Slowpokeking.8720:

Obtena.7952:

That’s EXACTLY my point … you want to make it even less time, effort and difficult … and you also recognize that even now, people don’t do dungeons because of rewards. I mean … how you can you not see what you are asking for is inline with even fewer people being interested in dungeons because logically, it follows that if Anet just eliminate the trash mobs, your rewards have to be inline with that level of easy, fast and effortless activity? I can only shake my head at the fact you don’t see this. if they remove trash, then your rewards shouldn’t be any better than an openworld boss mob.

Because even now it’s still too long and the reward is not good. Removing the trash mobs will let more people to do it because it would spend much less time.

Tell me which group of people love to do dungeons because there are tons trash mobs for them to spend time to clear? I’ve seen people with interest to know the story, get the skin or group up to fight bosses, but not with the love of trash mob cleaning.

The reward need buff up if they want to change it, you don’t seem to understand it at all. The current reward DOES NOT MATCH its length or difficulty. It was terrible and not wortyh compare to its length and difficulty to players, so both ends need some working. The length needs to reduced and the rewards need to be brought up. I don’t get that “the reward needs to be nerfed with the length reduced” idea.

The problem with this argument is that some people can clear dungeons extremely quickly. Too quickly if you ask me (I’m not saying they are cheating, I’m saying that we shouldn’t be allowed to skip so much of the dungeon paths like they do). Some groups can do a full path in under 5 minutes. A great many paths have been done in under 3 minutes even (http://gw2dungeons.net/records).

So while PUGs don’t usually get that great of a profit / hr from dungeons, buffing the rewards too much would mean that these groups would be making insane profits off of dungeons because of how fast they clear them.

I’m quickly becoming more and more convinced that the biggest change needed to dungeons is to remove some trash mobs and make it so you can’t skip and of the rest of them. This would allow for better balancing of dungeon rewards vs time invested imo (though I also tend to think they are already in a pretty good spot) since all groups’ clear times would be much closer together. OFC a coordinated group with a good composition would still finish the fights faster, and hence finish the dungeon faster, but overall the time to completion would be much closer. And until that happens I really don’t think we can talk about dungeon rewards / hr considering that varies so wildly right now from coordinated groups to PUGs who don’t know what you can/cannot skip.

OriOri.8724:

The problem with this argument is that some people can clear dungeons extremely quickly. Too quickly if you ask me (I’m not saying they are cheating, I’m saying that we shouldn’t be allowed to skip so much of the dungeon paths like they do). Some groups can do a full path in under 5 minutes. A great many paths have been done in under 3 minutes even (http://gw2dungeons.net/records).

So while PUGs don’t usually get that great of a profit / hr from dungeons, buffing the rewards too much would mean that these groups would be making insane profits off of dungeons because of how fast they clear them.

I’m quickly becoming more and more convinced that the biggest change needed to dungeons is to remove some trash mobs and make it so you can’t skip and of the rest of them. This would allow for better balancing of dungeon rewards vs time invested imo (though I also tend to think they are already in a pretty good spot) since all groups’ clear times would be much closer together. OFC a coordinated group with a good composition would still finish the fights faster, and hence finish the dungeon faster, but overall the time to completion would be much closer. And until that happens I really don’t think we can talk about dungeon rewards / hr considering that varies so wildly right now from coordinated groups to PUGs who don’t know what you can/cannot skip.

Many of these people already got what they want from the dungeons and they are done with it. You can see the easy and short ones always have more ppl to do them, the longer ones don’t.

With the daily reward system, it’s hard to go out of control.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Many of these people already got what they want from the dungeons and they are done with it. You can see the easy and short ones always have more ppl to do them, the longer ones don’t.

With the daily reward system, it’s hard to go out of control.

You know you have the 8 path for 5g reward right? You can do that endlessly, not daily.
The reward structure is fine with this system – don’t forget the materials, even AC materials are awesome – if you run with 5 players, you don’t even need to be very much organized because almost all dungeons are a joke.
Story mode also counts for it, so you can run AC story, AC p1, AC p3, CoF 1, CoF 2, TA story, TA up, TA fwd over and over again. The outcome is very good with a group that knows how to play. You don’t even need mesmer portals to be accurately fast.
It’s not that we have Tarir and other farming stuff, good farming spots have existed before. The people are just bored and burned out because there hasn’t been any rudimental interesting content for them for a long time, so they ran dungeons. Now we have a much better fractal system and raids. Dungeons are out and that’s good. You can still run them but hell no, it’s not needed to revive them.
Even if you personally think so, they will never ever touch dungeons again and I’m also convinced that the know-how of changing anything in there has gone and it will be too complicated and expensive to put someone in the spot to study and change the code.

Vinceman.4572:

You know you have the 8 path for 5g reward right? You can do that endlessly, not daily.
The reward structure is fine with this system – don’t forget the materials, even AC materials are awesome – if you run with 5 players, you don’t even need to be very much organized because almost all dungeons are a joke.
Story mode also counts for it, so you can run AC story, AC p1, AC p3, CoF 1, CoF 2, TA story, TA up, TA fwd over and over again. The outcome is very good with a group that knows how to play. You don’t even need mesmer portals to be accurately fast.
It’s not that we have Tarir and other farming stuff, good farming spots have existed before. The people are just bored and burned out because there hasn’t been any rudimental interesting content for them for a long time, so they ran dungeons. Now we have a much better fractal system and raids. Dungeons are out and that’s good. You can still run them but hell no, it’s not needed to revive them.
Even if you personally think so, they will never ever touch dungeons again and I’m also convinced that the know-how of changing anything in there has gone and it will be too complicated and expensive to put someone in the spot to study and change the code.

Yes, but the achievement system require you to do 8 different dungeon paths, which mean it’s still like 1 hour work and you need 4 other ppl to do it quickly. I can earn 5-6 g without a problem in this time period, alone.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Obtena.7952:

Yes, you speak for all the players. I forgot. How silly of me. Everyone who runs dungeons biggest concern is the annoyance of trash mobs they don’t have to fight. You win.

I don’t speak for them, the dungeons’ status told us how do they think.

Anyone here think the dungeons are popular now?

And you associate how unpopular dungeons are with a minor inconvenience … like I said, if that’s the worst problem dungeons have, then it’s clear the need to fix it isn’t too urgent. Looks like Anet agrees too.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Yes, but the achievement system require you to do 8 different dungeon paths, which mean it’s still like 1 hour work and you need 4 other ppl to do it quickly. I can earn 5-6 g without a problem in this time period, alone.

That doesn’t matter, the value is still fine. You will always find an activity in GW2 rewarding you more than another.

Slowpokeking.8720:

WHY didn’t the players do dungeons much? Because it’s no longer worthy to do so, then to make it worthy, of course the length has to be reduced and might need better reward. I don’t get why is it so hard to understand.

I don’t get why you think that’s the reality. People have never loved dungeons — they did them hundreds of times because they offered top rewards for least effort. Because they haven’t changed for four years, most veterans aren’t really interested in doing them another 100 times, if there are any other comparable alternatives.

There’s no value in ANet spending any effort on dungeons because they are still rewarding, they still offer some good times, and they don’t need to be touched to do those things.

That means it’s a better use of ANet’s limited resources to work on other stuff, including new fractals or story instances or maps.

Dungeons are perfectly fine the way they are, as legacy content.

The rewards were much better before if you consider the inflation of currency and the amount you got.

But in my opinion the rewards are secondary: I just play to play with friends and for distraction. At the end, you play to kill enemies, not for skins/rewards – yes, I know this may sound strange, but ultimately you play the game to do something. And the skins may be the aim, but even those players don’t just stand around in LA and don’t do anything. They play the game.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Seriously it requires a lot of changes to let ppl love to run them again, especially the high level ones. Remove some trash mobs and reduce the length. It’s not fun to spend a lot of time dodging mobs.

How about we actually fix the fact that you can skip past 90% of the mobs in a dungeon. I rarely run dungeons with pugs anymore as it’s just the most boring thing running from boss to boss and skipping the rest of the dungeon. Most dungeons are already really short especially if you skip past all the mobs.

What’s in it for anet? Consider the cost of updating dungeons vs what they’ll gain from it. The cost is big. How many more people are going to be spending money because of updated dungeons?