i love when it – my new meta threads never seem to fail in causing overreactions, just look at my phalanx warrior new meta thread from a little while ago.
When you’re suggesting something that is not already widely accepted you will be met with those who don’t agree. This is why before suggesting, always back it up with facts and examples. Whether you’re right or wrong doesn’t matter.
i love when it – my new meta threads never seem to fail in causing overreactions, just look at my phalanx warrior new meta thread from a little while ago.
When you’re suggesting something that is not already widely accepted you will be met with those who don’t agree. This is why before suggesting, always back it up with facts and examples. Whether you’re right or wrong doesn’t matter.
Bloody hell, if everybody could do that it would be a huge step forward!
examples such as the video i posted of a solo boss kill time on par with most peoples’ direct damage kills? and then there was the phalanx strength build which you could literally spend five minutes testing and see that the might stacking was balls to the wall insane.
but people are so resistant to change it takes them a while to accept it.
examples such as the video i posted of a solo boss kill time on par with most peoples’ direct damage kills? and then there was the phalanx strength build which you could literally spend five minutes testing and see that the might stacking was balls to the wall insane.
but people are so resistant to change it takes them a while to accept it.
Cuz there is a attitude that zerker is the only way to play. people don’t like change and a lot of people don’t understand the game as much as they think they do.
There’s a lot of other people that just use builds that other people make for them, they don’t know how to build or play without someone telling them how to.
Lastly there’s a lot of people that comment about things they haven’t tried or tested they immediately dismiss something.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Condi warrior is fun but it’s hardly the new meta. It’s still less DPS than an axe warrior and you’re still in zerk (Rabid is crap damage) so it’s not like you’re getting extra armor out of it. If there’s a specific boss with more than 2600 armor the sword may pull ahead but only by a small amount.
examples such as the video i posted of a solo boss kill time on par with most peoples’ direct damage kills? and then there was the phalanx strength build which you could literally spend five minutes testing and see that the might stacking was balls to the wall insane.
but people are so resistant to change it takes them a while to accept it.
Cuz there is a attitude that zerker is the only way to play. people don’t like change and a lot of people don’t understand the game as much as they think they do.
There’s a lot of other people that just use builds that other people make for them, they don’t know how to build or play without someone telling them how to.
Lastly there’s a lot of people that comment about things they haven’t tried or tested they immediately dismiss something.
It’s partially because Anet made it this way. GW2 has one of the most shallow and linear character costumization systems I’ve seen in an AAA MMO, so barely anyone cares to think for new ideas because mostly, there is none.
examples such as the video i posted of a solo boss kill time on par with most peoples’ direct damage kills? and then there was the phalanx strength build which you could literally spend five minutes testing and see that the might stacking was balls to the wall insane.
but people are so resistant to change it takes them a while to accept it.
Cuz there is a attitude that zerker is the only way to play. people don’t like change and a lot of people don’t understand the game as much as they think they do.
There’s a lot of other people that just use builds that other people make for them, they don’t know how to build or play without someone telling them how to.
Lastly there’s a lot of people that comment about things they haven’t tried or tested they immediately dismiss something.
It’s partially because Anet made it this way. GW2 has one of the most shallow and linear character costumization systems I’ve seen in an AAA MMO, so barely anyone cares to think for new ideas because mostly, there is none.
Try Path of Exile if you want to see what real builds and customization is like :P
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
power war (axe)
– zerk
– 6/6/0/2/0 (V/X/XII-V/I/XIII-VI)
– strength/force sigils
– strength runes
power war (gs)
– zerk
– 6/6/0/0/2 (V/IX/XII-V/X/I-VI)
– strength/force sigils
– strength runes
That coincides with all the testing I have done as well. Please keep in mind that when the indestructible golem cycles from dead to alive it keeps the condition stacks on it.
However from my testing you can start a fight with Bow 5 then leap into the golem with a flurry allowing you to quickly ramp up bleed stacks from 0 to like 16+ and more if crits and bleed on proc occur its not impossible to burst to 20 stacks on a warrior. Yes half of those will fall off shortly but in reality half dont fall off because you build up more before the ones from flurry and bow 5 fall off.
You can also start with full adrenaline cast bow 5 then bow burst F1 and combo finisher leap into the field giving you fire aura which will grant you more might when a trash mob hits you and burn it. Then you can apply tormet. Then AA which does quite good damage.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Btw you can also use sigil of doom and tromet in PVE. I use them on my condition build those 2 things pretty much set it over the top… When I swap to my bow and I proc doom and tormet the damage is crazy insane. And I actially think the Bow Burst skill at full adrenaline with torment proc is better than cleave of course because its 5 target not 3.
Bow 2 its 15 targets theoretically. Its 3 shots and each one of them can pierce.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Clearly I am talking about bow 2… Fan of fire I edited my above post for clarity. I consider doing some analytical thinking before hating on me next time since bow 3 isnt 3 shots and bow 2 is you should of know that I made a mistake but i guess you didn’t really know any better. Don’t believe me go test it. See if you can hit more than 5 golems with it. And when I say theoretically doesn’t actually mean in practice it happens. After you test it to see I am right Id consider not posting yourself.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
I’m not sure how great we can value tests being done in pvp, but one thing makes me curious nevertheless. How did you get lower dps on gs than on axe? That goes contrary to all my tests. And less than 4k dps seems weird anyway, considering I get about 8-10k in solo pve (depending on encounters armor and behaviour). We are getting about 6k dps against lupicus, a boss with 33% (?) damage reduction by armor.
I’m not sure how great we can value tests being done in pvp, but one thing makes me curious nevertheless. How did you get lower dps on gs than on axe? That goes contrary to all my tests. And less than 4k dps seems weird anyway, considering I get about 8-10k in solo pve (depending on encounters armor and behaviour). We are getting about 6k dps against lupicus, a boss with 33% (?) damage reduction by armor.
Lupicus has like 3450 armor. Normal enemies usually have 2300-2600 so 25%-33% reduction for Lupicus.
I’m not sure how great we can value tests being done in pvp, but one thing makes me curious nevertheless. How did you get lower dps on gs than on axe? That goes contrary to all my tests. And less than 4k dps seems weird anyway, considering I get about 8-10k in solo pve (depending on encounters armor and behaviour). We are getting about 6k dps against lupicus, a boss with 33% (?) damage reduction by armor.
Because the stat spread in PVP is lower than the Stat spread in PVE. You can get a lot more Critical damage and power in PVE than you can in PVP so that’s why his calculations show that conditions at least in PVP are better. So in those regards I believe his calculations and math is correct as far is what is achievable in heart of the mists.
As far as the GS and Axe debate I thought the GS being better was based on WWA hitting and being able to land all 100 Blades. Otherwise even so the differences were a lot smaller than that with the GS being better but not hugely better.
@ Darrox Only Axe 5 the spin skill is way better in PVP the other skills i believe are the same.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
The power build out-dps’d the condi build by 29% who’s dps was actually nearly the same as what I got in PvP against the golem (only 3% off than vs alpha). No idea why power build came out to be THAT much more powerful in PvE than PvP…
ps: skill rotations used in both cases are the exact same ones I used in my hotm tests.
The power build out-dps’d the condi build by 29% who’s dps was actually nearly the same as what I got in PvP against the golem (only 3% off than vs alpha). No idea why power build came out to be THAT much more powerful in PvE than PvP…
ps: skill rotations used in both cases are the exact same ones I used in my hotm tests.
I agree with your math being right if you camped sword. However condi users don’t camp swords and burning damage of longbow is a huge DPS increase in a proper condi build rotation. So thats why it is so confusing to see that GS is that much higher. Because I watched your vid and I didn’t see you doing any burning damage and thats a big factor of condi war DPS. So I would honestly reccoment to you if you want a proper DPS test whenever your adrinaline is full you should be swaping to bow pressing F1 then #3 to stack might then #5 then #2 then swap.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Potions can be bugged into hotm (golem counts as inquest). For power test I did use the potion and didnt use food for PvE test (couldn’t bug food for hotm). The pve multiplier that weren’t in my pvp test are scholars 10% vs strength 7% and night 10% sigil vs battle. Doubt these multipliers would make THAT much difference.
ya but never the less you should be doing burning damage with a condi build. Burning damage can tick as high as like 1k per tick depending on your condition damage and from my tersting it is possible to have perma burning on a target.. Those sigils do make a differnce too. If you are using sigils like that on the power build you should be using sigils like doom, smoldering, torment etc on the condition build and all other condition type sigils. If you used burning and like sigil of doom and sigil of torment on your condi build your numbers would be a lot closer.
You would be looking at like a 1k burning damage per sec and I think poisen will tick for like 200+ per sec Sigil of torment if the target is moving again however much that is.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
However condi users don’t camp swords and burning damage of longbow is a huge DPS increase in a proper condi build rotation.
I didn’t do any burning in my PvP test either. I kept both PvP and PvE consistent. The different between PvP and PvE results should have been proportional.
However condi users don’t camp swords and burning damage of longbow is a huge DPS increase in a proper condi build rotation.
I didn’t do any burning in my PvP test either. I kept both PvP and PvE consistent. The different between PvP and PvE results should have been proportional.
Yes, I’m fully aware of the “proper” rotation. I felt that the bleed stacks I retain by avoiding swapping weaponsets will cover the burn ticks I lose from doing that. Even if it doesn’t, it will get me close enough for a good comparison.
well if the rotation is good you shouldn’t lose bleed stacks like i lost towards the end. I lost stacks mainly becasue I didn’t wait for Pin Down to cool down…
Notice the duration of that skill. You are also getting bleed on crit and fire field is a hybrid skill in that applies both physical and burning damage and the physical bart does crit as well as fan of fire and combustive shot.
its not just that though you miss out on might stacks which increase your damage.
Attachments:
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Ok, did a sw/sw/longbow rotation + sigil of doom instead of force and got a faster killtime – 1 min 40.3 sec. The encounter dmg output came to be 4,803 dps. Just like a thought, the gain was very small.
you also didn’t use whirlwind attack in your power GS video, which would make a pretty significant difference.
i thought it was that power builds are still better overall but condi isn’t that much worse especially against high armour mobs and mobs that you aren’t hitting with wwa + are tankier than berserker because of toughness from rabid.
Yes, I didn’t use ww on purpose because on my HotM test I didn’t use it either. I was consistently seeing a dps loss if I used ww, even if u timed it with gs 4 or 5 to minimize dps downtime. It also simulated bosses that aren’t walled so I figured it was a justified choice.
Excellent work man its a lot closer than I thought to be honest if you added sigil of torment it could be slightly closer and break into the 5k DPS barrier. I’m just going to speculate on that for right now.
Where does axe fall into that?
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Does anyone remember what they did before the feature patch? Because now they are pretty much the best runeset for condi damage on both necro and warrior. Whereas most people stick to the old undead runes or the new krait runes.
It was superior rune of the noble it summed drake hounds on hit or somthing.. ya well you can maintain 25 stacks of might but it doesn’t cost 2 silver like krait runes do though and a warrior can probably maintain 15+ without it. And without sigil of battle.
Necros and warriors all you need is a little thing called sigil of battle and sigil of strength. If you have that on a necro u can probably maintain like 10-15 stacks of might. Just a guess cuz idk.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Try dropping condi sword and use zerk sword, it should still total up to more with 25 stacks of might + 25 stacks of bleed being about half your damage, and the rest being direct. Although that sort of kills of the point of using the sword against bosses with high armor, but then again I don’t really get the point of this whole exercise except as a PHIW thing.
All they provide is might duration, which I had little to none and was obtaining only through fgj/rage. Krait runes allowed my bleeds to tick 4 more seconds than without, and provide bleed on getting hit and more condi on using elite which you usually use off cd. So no, those runes were not better. (I don’t use koi cakes)
koi cakes, 10 in strength, deep cuts = 100% bleed duration iirc. you use battle on your longbow, strength on sword and the on swap proc, plus the combustive shot + arcing arrow you will do as part of your lb rotations in addition to fgj and rage lets you maintain like perma 14+ though you’ll linger mostly around the 18-22 mark – and this was me using undead runes, not aristocracy.
Does anyone remember what they did before the feature patch? Because now they are pretty much the best runeset for condi damage on both necro and warrior. Whereas most people stick to the old undead runes or the new krait runes.
Im not sure, in PVE: condition duration > condition damage. On necros, you can go 6/6/x/x/x and achive 123% condition duration on scepter bleeds…so you can use condition damage food.
Not really true. Say im going for lupi condi solo. Phase switch and lifesteal cleanses conditions so I dont really care about duration as much. I want max condi damage while i have the condis on the target. Condi duration makes it easier to reach 25 stacks of bleeding but what good is that if your bleeds dont tick as much. Theres a balance you need. Focusing solely on one and not the other is bad. And like you said condi duration can be covered by food and traits so aristocracy runes are fine.
Ok, this time I had to bug alpha because he would always target me with his ice spike as soon as I switch to longbow (he must love rangers, explains why spire always gets it instead of me when I melee). This time around I didn’t have to break my rotation trying to dodge the aoe’s (bugged alpha = punching bag) which eliminates any possible dps loss/gain due to bad rotations between tests. Also, I equipped battle & strength sigils for more sources of might.
5,070 dps – CM runes
5,430 dps – Krait runes
5,818 dps – CM runes + koi cakes
Just for fun, I also went ahead and tested a gs war under same conditions, both with and without WW in the rotation, and an axe/mace variant too.
6,184 dps – GS 125
6,793 dps – A/M 124
7,343 dps – GS 1235
I do have videos for all the tests above on record but uploading them is too much work so I’ll upload only if someone decides to be a kitten and demands them.
Also what mob are you testing on in PvE? Do you have the armor value?
Yes, wind up times are included. The values is the average DPS I pulled of throughout the whole fight, start to end. The timer starts ticking right as I land my first hit and cuts off right as alpha dies. Measurements are accurate to nanoseconds but I rounded results off to 0.01s to avoid unnecessary clutter.
You should have opened up the condi solo with rage sig, fgj, fury sig for a combustive shot for strength banner blast, lb3, lb2, lb5 then do sw 4, auto auto auto auto until sw 4 goes off cd or burning duration is almost up then you switch for lb f1, 2,3, 5 (if off cd) then switch back to sw/sw. Obviously as well, you weren’t getting riposte bleeds, which I make heavy use of in solos since they’re pretty long duration.
