Guild Wars 2

I can almost never get a dungeon party in lfg, due to “lvl 80, zerk, 5k AP” requirements.

This is a massive turn off to me as a newbie for doing one of the majorly fun aspects of MMO’s that I enjoy (Dungeons).

With this in mind, I’d like to propose a dungeon mentoring system, wherein a level 80 character can accompany a level X character (relative to the dungeon) and obtain various rewards for assisting the lower levelled players in getting their daily chests. Perhaps introduce a “mentor point” system, where 80’s can obtain points, similar to the karma system, to redeem for unique rewards

I feel a system like this would help introduce players to dungeons better, and allow new players to actually get in to dungeons without belonging to a guild, rather than the persistent demand for 80’s only.

Its a very good idea, not only because it enhace the players experience, but also because this will make more new players stay in the game (right now is less encouranging to low lever first timers to go into dungeons, since a lot of the pugs in the lfg will not want them).

Also considering that the mentor points will upgrade the veterans in game experience, it will be a good alternative to get both groups a quality of life upgrade and allow anet to get a better retention rate.

Why would you want someone in your party that is a low level? They can’t use skills or traits.

I’m pretty sure they mean new players or those that strongly dislike dungeons due to bad experiences or lack of teammates.

Some people don’t try ’em simply because it may help them better if someone could better describe + walk them through and show them what and what not to do.

Sokia.3710:

Why would you want someone in your party that is a low level? They can’t use skills or traits.

If this kind of behavior grows… ANet will feel a kick in the kitten for the latest changes.

rapthorne.7345:

I can almost never get a dungeon party in lfg, due to “lvl 80, zerk, 5k AP” requirements.

Are we using the same LFG? The only requirement I see on a regular basis is the “Level 80” one. Easygoing groups tend to fill up fast. I’ll put something down like “Doing Path 1. All welcome.” and it will fill up in less than 60 seconds.

Sokia.3710:

Why would you want someone in your party that is a low level? They can’t use skills or traits.

this is the attitude I want to change.

I once used “know the path” and “2kAP+” as a requirement, and tbh, it not only increased waiting time, but also was detrimental to group quality because it was more likely i’ll get ragenerds.

I nowadays only use “Lv 80 only” and dropped “know the path” as well as any kind of AP requirement; I get some 600 to 800 AP dudes, but they either know the path or are able learners, plus it seems to drastically reduce fill time. Really had no problems with them finishing the dungeons in a timely manner.

However, I nowadays always attach “english” (not the flag, as that one tends to be confused with an american guy playing on europe or someone on NA servers) as well to make sure i don’t get <non-english language>-only guys who refuse to speak english or read the reqs altogether.

It’s nonsensical to require zerker gear because it is unethical to enforce a playstyle on someone who might not feel comfortable with that playstyle. Also, even gear posts can be faked by copypasting prepared tag strings.

Still, dropping “Lv 80 only” is out of question because below level 80 it’s likely you are missing essential skills and/or traits for your planned playstyle.

This community has certainly changed for the worse in some aspects.
2012 had it better, with less restrictive mindsets and a more casual attitude.
More openness to the individual, rather than adherence to a certain Batman quote.

Ettanin.8271:

Still, dropping “Lv 80 only” is out of question because below level 80 it’s likely you are missing essential skills and/or traits for your planned playstyle.

Why is enabling people to play dungeons of their level range out of the question?

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

I have no idea what exactly newish lvl 30 or 40 can do in dungeons. I remember how powerful was old-at-release 30-50 lvls, which could actually provide some help into dungeon progression.

But now forget about it, no 40 lvls at AC, they have no armor, no traits, I glad if they unlock some handful utility skills by that point. But I do not believe they know then and how to use them.
If you not my friend I have no idea why me or someone else should mule you through the dungeon. If you not 80 – you just a ballast. And I not exactly sure that kind of reward you should give us – to encourage do dungeons with only 4 or 3 valid members.

Due to the changes in April, where they locked players out of so many things, it’s going to be very difficult for anyone below level 80 to get a group. It gets even worse the lower in level you are. A level 35 character pre-April update is much stronger than a post April character.

Players are free to include whatever requirements they want when they create their groups. A lot of players don’t like carrying others so they put those requirements to help minimize that situation. If you don’t meet those requirements then start your own group. It’s that simple.

rapthorne.7345:

Why is enabling people to play dungeons of their level range out of the question?

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

I should not be forced to run AC with lvl 35 players not even having elites, either. Plain and simple.

Why the respect to “play how I want” should go only one way?

Daroska.9427:

This community has certainly changed for the worse in some aspects.
2012 had it better, with less restrictive mindsets and a more casual attitude.
More openness to the individual, rather than adherence to a certain Batman quote.

When everyone is level 35 masterwork, no one complains about full exotic zerk level 80s. What a surprise

As for mentoring within the current system, you can check out this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Mentors-Noob – and point people to guides: http://gw2dungeons.net/

rapthorne.7345:

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

Nobody prevents you from starting your own dungeon group if you are not okay with the rules and specifics of already existing ones.

once I witnessed a guy who unironically requested 7k + AP for STORY dungeon. I’ve played plenty of MMO’s but nowhere was the PVE community so rabid. You are mostly automatically scrub and kitten simply because you are in that dungeon for the first time.

Ettanin.8271:

rapthorne.7345:

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

Nobody prevents you from starting your own dungeon group if you are not okay with the rules and specifics of already existing ones.

But if they did that then they wouldn’t be able to complain!

@OP – It’s not a bad idea and would be cool if they did something like this. Until that time may I advise you check out this thread -

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Mentors-Noob/first#post3492401

Lishtenbird.2814:

Daroska.9427:

This community has certainly changed for the worse in some aspects.
2012 had it better, with less restrictive mindsets and a more casual attitude.
More openness to the individual, rather than adherence to a certain Batman quote.

When everyone is level 35 masterwork, no one complains about full exotic zerk level 80s. What a surprise

Honestly.. is that your response?

Anyway Rapthorne, I think your idea (or something like it) would be nice.
But if you need some advice, just let me know. I might be able to help.

Daroska.9427:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Daroska.9427:

This community has certainly changed for the worse in some aspects.
2012 had it better, with less restrictive mindsets and a more casual attitude.
More openness to the individual, rather than adherence to a certain Batman quote.

When everyone is level 35 masterwork, no one complains about full exotic zerk level 80s. What a surprise

Honestly.. is that your response?

Yes, this is my response. “Honestly.” Because, you know, people who have been in the game for 2 weeks have more in common with other people who have been in the game for 2 weeks, compared to people who have been in the game for 2 years with other people who have been in the game for 2 weeks and still fail to read LFG description, let alone check Wiki, forum, Dulfy and Youtube to see what the best practices developed over that time are (and developed with a sole purpose of replacing the time consuming and frustration causing “less restrictive mindsets and a more casual attitude” from the times when people didn’t know any better with something that makes life easier).

rapthorne.7345:

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

But on the reverse side of that, “Play how I want” means I can play with only level 80s if I want to. You do have a right to run the dungeon, you do not have a right to every single party on the LFG.

Varrg.2704:

once I witnessed a guy who unironically requested 7k + AP for STORY dungeon. I’ve played plenty of MMO’s but nowhere was the PVE community so rabid. You are mostly automatically scrub and kitten simply because you are in that dungeon for the first time.

Just don’t generalize it too much. I myself enjoy taking newbies through dungeons, whenever I have the time.

rapthorne.7345:

I can almost never get a dungeon party in lfg, due to “lvl 80, zerk, 5k AP” requirements.

This is a massive turn off to me as a newbie for doing one of the majorly fun aspects of MMO’s that I enjoy (Dungeons).

With this in mind, I’d like to propose a dungeon mentoring system, wherein a level 80 character can accompany a level X character (relative to the dungeon) and obtain various rewards for assisting the lower levelled players in getting their daily chests. Perhaps introduce a “mentor point” system, where 80’s can obtain points, similar to the karma system, to redeem for unique rewards

I feel a system like this would help introduce players to dungeons better, and allow new players to actually get in to dungeons without belonging to a guild, rather than the persistent demand for 80’s only.

1. Using the LFG tool to make your own group is not an exploit nor bannable offense.
2. Sticky. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Mentors-Noob

Good idea, most people are merc nowadays and they will help if they get paid for their time. This will create a boom on lfg if done right.

Just a note on the lfg requirement. I found AP requirement irrelevant because sometimes I run with <800 AP players and they play like a pro. It’s obvious that they own multiple accounts (quite a lot of them). Sometimes >23k AP players have no idea what’s going on. They are new players playing someone’s accounts.

New players should try the all welcome ones. If you are demanding, plz add the specifics like gear check, will kick if xx, etc. It’s just that sometimes I finsih my runs those demanding posts are still there because obviously no one likes to join those and they end up taking longer to play. XD

Sokia.3710:

Why would you want someone in your party that is a low level? They can’t use skills or traits.

Because I get a kick out of helping people, nothing more, nothing less. I take into consideration the party make up and their levels, and know my limitations, so it wont be a farce.
One thing I do notice though, 99% of the time, low levels enjoy the experience, which in turn gives me a buzz, where as guys who have done it hundreds of times, look on it as a business. That is fine, but I would rather spend free time with the former group rather than the latter.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Sokia.3710:

Why would you want someone in your party that is a low level? They can’t use skills or traits.

Because I get a kick out of helping people, nothing more, nothing less. I take into consideration the party make up and their levels, and know my limitations, so it wont be a farce.
One thing I do notice though, 99% of the time, low levels enjoy the experience, which in turn gives me a buzz, where as guys who have done it hundreds of times, look on it as a business. That is fine, but I would rather spend free time with the former group rather than the latter.

What’s stopping you from doing that?

I get bored so I pick out a noob from the low level areas sometimes and rear them up to be a filthy meta scumbag like myself. I’m always so proud of them, warms the cocles of me heart to see em growin up.

I remember playing a game where you could mentor new players and you would both get exp/drop bonuses, it was really nice and even though some people would find a way to abuse it, I still think it would be a great way to encourage new player and veteran to pug more.

As for Right now. The most I see is for level 80req. 2 popped up under cm that were all welcome I managed to get one but the second one went away so fast that all I had was the empty space.

1 all welcome story mode TA was up but in the time it took me to reach and press print screen it was full and gone.

As for mentoring…. I dont know if there really needs to be one.

What needs to happen is for people to start making LFG’s saying “new to dungeon could use some help” or something like that. So many dungeons I run where I you can tell the person has no clue what is going on but they dont ask for help. people seem to forget gw2/1 is one of the friendliest mmo’s out there. Just need a bit of initiative.

99% of the time I see someone asking for help I instantly click join. Then like 4 other lvl 80’s join and I usually leave in the hope that another low level who needs help could join and learn.

Someone asks for help in map chat and a zerg appears. Ask for how to get to a vista and a horde appears to show you and apply perma swiftness. somehow people forget to do it in dungeons.

I heard you could post your own lfg but be careful with that, that’s an exploit

Sokia.3710:

Why would you want someone in your party that is a low level? They can’t use skills or traits.

astray.6057:

I have no idea what exactly newish lvl 30 or 40 can do in dungeons. I remember how powerful was old-at-release 30-50 lvls, which could actually provide some help into dungeon progression.

But now forget about it, no 40 lvls at AC, they have no armor, no traits, I glad if they unlock some handful utility skills by that point. But I do not believe they know then and how to use them.
If you not my friend I have no idea why me or someone else should mule you through the dungeon. If you not 80 – you just a ballast. And I not exactly sure that kind of reward you should give us – to encourage do dungeons with only 4 or 3 valid members.

These and another people sharing these opinions are people who I`d like to punch as hard as possible straight in the face xD

Of course NEWBIES don`t have exotic gears or all skills unlocked or correct sigils/runes or experience how to dps and survive. So what the heck?
We ALL didn`t do when whe were scrubs to GW2. Sure some people started to theorycrafting and looking for best way how progress in the game. But those are 1-2%?!

I did start ranger first, didn`t like him after a short play time and created a warrior. In the beginnings he was simply an easy to play class for me, tho, I did a lot wrong first. EVEN with lvl 80 exotic gear. Me and my guildes shared the opinion that it`s best to survive longer and deal some high damage and die fast dealing no dmg once dead. I even used Runesof the Soldier combinded with my own Shout Heal build.
We used skills and traits which we experienced good runs with. E.g. I prefered to have fgj, endure pain and sth else years back.
Now, I prefer to rush with an exp party, where the guard doesn`t screw my might/fury stacking with his light aoe of the staff xD
But I`m also totally OK to run with people who don`t hustle and also don`t stack.
Also I like to give someone advices if he/she is willing to listen and learn. Like I used to explain some guys where to get first Gold, fast lvl ups: eotm. How to get there, what exactly to do there.

Of course scrubs don`t know how to use or when to use certain skills. After havin played Gw2 for 1 year I did run arah probably once every path. So when I found myself in a speed clear guild in which people also did run arah I came with my warrior (easier to survive as newbie you know^^). They asked me to stack invuln in the second phase so the feedback of the mes does hurt more. I simply failed like first 5 times? because I WAS a scrub to arah/lupi, but after practicing he is actually even easy to solo now. So why dont you want to explain totally newbies what is best to use, how to use it etc etc….

Just kittening me off

J Eberle.9312:

I get bored so I pick out a noob from the low level areas sometimes and rear them up to be a filthy meta scumbag like myself. I’m always so proud of them, warms the cocles of me heart to see em growin up.

That sound like fun, can never have enough filthy zerkers :P

As for OP, why not check out [Noob] guild sticky on front? Ofc don’t join zerk speed experienced only groups if you are new. There are many guilds that will help newer players and if you create your own group, some vets dont mind joining to help.

Morsus.5106:

rapthorne.7345:

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

But on the reverse side of that, “Play how I want” means I can play with only level 80s if I want to. You do have a right to run the dungeon, you do not have a right to every single party on the LFG.

Absolutely, and I completely agree However I do feel that lower levelled players should be empowered and enabled to do content that was meant for their level.

And while my opinion on LFG as it stands right now is negative, I’d rather discuss the concept in my original post – ie, whether it would be a cool idea to implement a mentoring system with in game rewards. Many games utilise these systems of mentoring/apprenticeship/etc

Daroska.9427:

2012 had it better, with less restrictive mindsets and a more casual attitude.
More openness to the individual, rather than adherence to a certain Batman quote.

Yeah wasn’t it way better when everyone was completely ignorant of how to play well and everything was super frustrating and the rewards were terrible?

rapthorne.7345:

Morsus.5106:

rapthorne.7345:

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

But on the reverse side of that, “Play how I want” means I can play with only level 80s if I want to. You do have a right to run the dungeon, you do not have a right to every single party on the LFG.

Absolutely, and I completely agree However I do feel that lower levelled players should be empowered and enabled to do content that was meant for their level.

And while my opinion on LFG as it stands right now is negative, I’d rather discuss the concept in my original post – ie, whether it would be a cool idea to implement a mentoring system with in game rewards. Many games utilise these systems of mentoring/apprenticeship/etc

They can play the content designed for them fine. You assume because some people would rather play with 80s that the level 30s trying AC Story for the first time won’t be able to find a group, but in my experience finding a group willing to take any level/classes is pretty easy. Go post an LFG saying “All welcome” and compare how long that takes to fill up against “5k Zerker Only, Warrior/Guardian/Elementalist”. The problem your suggestion addresses is blown way out of proportion at best, and non-existent at worst.

rapthorne.7345:

Ettanin.8271:

Still, dropping “Lv 80 only” is out of question because below level 80 it’s likely you are missing essential skills and/or traits for your planned playstyle.

Why is enabling people to play dungeons of their level range out of the question?

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

Because Anet designed dungeons that’s clearly meant for level 80s. Even many first time level 80s have trouble clearing dungeon such as AC and CM. You are being carried if you are under leveled.

I don’t mind taking one under leveled player but more than that, it makes a significant difference.

layzoe.6035:

rapthorne.7345:

Ettanin.8271:

Still, dropping “Lv 80 only” is out of question because below level 80 it’s likely you are missing essential skills and/or traits for your planned playstyle.

Why is enabling people to play dungeons of their level range out of the question?

I should not have to be level 80 to run level 35/50 dungeons, plain and simple

Because Anet designed dungeons that’s clearly meant for level 80s. Even many first time level 80s have trouble clearing dungeon such as AC and CM. You are being carried if you are under leveled.

I don’t mind taking one under leveled player but more than that, it makes a significant difference.

I don’t think so. I think they designed dungeons to be playable at all appropriate levels for the dungeon – appropriate as in the minimum level and above.
Which means that a well coordinated group of experienced players will be able to breeze through them and low level newbies will be presented with a challenge.
Both variants have their merits. The first group – the veterans – will be pretty fast and get their rewards quickly which will be most likely a major factor for those players at that point (note: not the only factor and not for all players).
The second group – the newbies – will have a sometimes fun and sometimes frustrating experience depending on the dungeon, professions and other factors, but they will have a challenge compared to what they know from open world. Still it is doable. Only requires much more time/patience/stubborness.

And this design for all comers is what prompts all the “no difficult content” comments from veterans, because Arenanet “forgot” the hard modes. But that is a different topic, so I’ll stop that train of thought here.

layzoe.6035:

Because Anet designed dungeons that’s clearly meant for level 80s. Even many first time level 80s have trouble clearing dungeon such as AC and CM.

Most of the player base dont play the game good enough (nearly put suck at playing but lol), but the dungeons were created to be played by the levels they start (with equipment of that level and greens).

Lucius.2140:

layzoe.6035:

Because Anet designed dungeons that’s clearly meant for level 80s. Even many first time level 80s have trouble clearing dungeon such as AC and CM.

Most of the player base dont play the game good enough (nearly put suck at playing but lol), but the dungeons were created to be played by the levels they start (with equipment of that level and greens).

That so much. It isnt even has hard as say bwe. People were heading into AC at level 25. I know I did still completed it.

Regardless of how it may have been at launch (I remember breaking my armor in AC as well), there have been a lot of changes since that discourage, or rather disadvantage low levels entering dungeons, including but not limited to: later skill/trait acquisition, imbalanced base stat acquisition, and locked traits. While the changed crit damage scaling in dungeons may seem to make them laughable to us, levels below 55 can’t even get equipment with 3 stats, so damage is significantly lower before even considering traits and proper gearing. Anyways, the people who did the scaling system did a pretty bad job with respect to low level dungeons.

Its always been that way? lvl 60 to get 3stat gear? (iirc)

Ive never had a problem myself and never had a problem with a person who was marginally good at the game and wanted to succeed.

Now im not sure on the latest skill trait distribution. Ive got my thief up to 21 or so and he will be in ac the second he is 30. Pistol 5 should carry me through most encounters.

I know the dungeon so well that its not the lack of traits that would kill me. Its the boredom from doing so low damage and being in there for so long.

I guess what im saying is. Bads will be bads no matter what and being low level isnt an excuse. atleast in my experience.

There is a guild designed to help new players. That said, echoing some of the sentiment above, ANET sure has been trying to create disincentives for helping new players by making them weaker and weaker with each new feature patch. First trait locking, then skill locking.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

There is a guild designed to help new players. That said, echoing some of the sentiment above, ANET sure has been trying to create disincentives for helping new players by making them weaker and weaker with each new feature patch. First trait locking, then skill locking.

The skill locking has changed so now you get elite at 31, only one dungeon would you do before that an it’s AC story at 30 I believe, so not a huge deal.

The traits though… absolutely. It’s not a big deal for established players, esp ones who do a lot of dungeons or champ killing and have a horde of skill scrolls to toss to alts so they can buy their traits. But new players… I don’t envy them in this new clusterkitten of a trait system. I think the idea is somewhat sound, but the implementation is poor. I like the idea of having player go around the world, but thing is not all of them are so cut and dry and in the end it’s far more reasonable to just farm the skill points/gold and buy it in many cases.