Guild Wars 2

xihorus.2804:

(disclaimer: personal experience only):

• <1k AP: Might know parts of the dungeon, but that’s about it. Also, gear is probably underlevel.
• 1k-2k AP: Might not know certain mechanics, but gear is probably at least 80 rares.
• 2k-5k AP: Likely to know all the mechanics.
• 5k-8k AP: Would be shocked if they did anything wrong.
• 8k+ AP: Expecting flawless performance. Also, will readily admit if they haven’t run the dungeon in awhile.

Again, these don’t apply 100% of the time. Just my anecdotal observation. But from reading other people’s posts, I think this is a similar experience to what they have had.

Honestly my experience is the opposite. I can give you 30 players right now that run dungeons with me that would get kicked out of those groups requiring AP. I have 10.5k AP and these players have more then me. But they don’t run PUGs and usually go with me or one of the other people in my guild that do dungeons.

xihorus.2804:

If a posting in a LFG asks for a certain AP requirement, because those players believe that AP = superior ability, then sure, they are being elitist. But if you believe that people who do not rely on AP to judge ability are of superior quality, then you are being just as elitist as they are.

As for me, I don’t use AP requirements when I post, but I have joined parties that have them. But if I made a posting that asked for “experienced 80s only”, “speed run”, or “must know x fight”, and someone joins with less than 1k AP, I am going to politely ask if they do, indeed, know the dungeon well.

Most people that ask for AP are doing it for that reason you stated, “Skill”.

As to my post you quoted, if you go and look in the thread you will see I said the ones that ask for AP is their choose. We all get a choose on how we play the game and I am not one to tell them to stop. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think it is stupid and they are elitest for doing it.

Hjorje.9453:

Honestly my experience is the opposite. I can give you 30 players right now that run dungeons with me that would get kicked out of those groups requiring AP. I have 10.5k AP and these players have more then me. But they don’t run PUGs and usually go with me or one of the other people in my guild that do dungeons.

This is a discussion about PUGs posting AP requirements via the LFG system. I’ve never been in a guild that cared about AP. Doing runs with guildies is about having fun, or teaching the path, in my experience. But if you have 10.5k AP and the 30 players you speak of have more, why on earth would they be kicked from the groups requiring AP?

Hjorje.9453:

Most people that ask for AP are doing it for that reason you stated, “Skill”.

As to my post you quoted, if you go and look in the thread you will see I said the ones that ask for AP is their choose. We all get a choose on how we play the game and I am not one to tell them to stop. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think it is stupid and they are elitest for doing it.

I read your post, and I understand you are advocating for people playing the way they want to. I am the same way. My issue was that you are calling the practice stupid and elitist, especially considering by your own admission you do not normally PUG. I personally cannot see how it is either, unless you consider all group restrictions elitist.

xihorus.2804:

I read your post, and I understand you are advocating for people playing the way they want to. I am the same way. My issue was that you are calling the practice stupid and elitist, especially considering by your own admission you do not normally PUG. I personally cannot see how it is either, unless you consider all group restrictions elitist.

I myself do PUG. I PUG on my second account quite a bit. I have two 80s on that account fully geared but only like 800 AP, I have been kicked quite a few times from groups that didn’t have any requirements because I didn’t have enough AP.

Honestly, I always look at things that exclude players, from my experiences with other games, as elitest attitudes. Now in GW2, the few restriction that people put up probably aren’t as elitest as in other games, but the term has just stuck with me.

Now the AP one I do find really stupid though since I can see from personal experience that AP doesn’t reflect on how one will perform in a dungeon or what their experience could be.

Hjorje.9453:

I have been kicked quite a few times from groups that didn’t have any requirements because I didn’t have enough AP.

Well, they did have an AP requirement, they just didn’t post it in the LFG. That is stupid, and people like that do contribute to the toxicity of the player base.

Now the AP one I do find really stupid though since I can see from personal experience that AP doesn’t reflect on how one will perform in a dungeon or what their experience could be. (emphasis added)

That’s your experience. My experience, the experience of several others that have posted in this thread, and likely the experience of the people requiring a certain AP for dungeons runs is different from yours.

AP as an indicator of skill isn’t black and white. But imagine you had to place a 100g bet on who could successfully complete a dungeon path: 1) a group of players that have 500 AP; or 2) a group of players that have 12k AP. Which would you pick? What if I told you the path they had to complete was Arah P4?

I agree AP is a “gray” indicator at best. Someone with 3k AP isn’t guaranteed to be better than 2k in a dungeon. Someone with 8k isn’t going to be twice as good as someone with 4k. But if you cannot fathom why someone in this game would think that there is rough proportional relationship between AP and skill / experience / competency, and further cannot understand why someone who wants a smooth dungeon run would have an AP requirement for their party when this is the only metric available to them, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Again, I don’t post in LFG using AP requirements, but I do not for a moment think that it is stupid for people to use it.

I have almost 18K Achievements points and I try to never join these “4k+ AP and No ranger” parties because usually the ones hosting these parties are not very good so that is why they have those requirements.

From my experience if you want real good players in your party don’t type any requirements. Good players doesn’t care about that because they know what to do and can lead if they have to.

Requesting a certain amount of achievement points is not aimed at asserting player’s skills but to ensure that the player has some minimal understanding of game mechanics. If I run CoE speed clears I don’t wan’t to spend half an hour explaining to a warrior why he/she should not use a longbow or rifle with Alpha. On the other hand if I do the so called “I see dead people” runs I don’t care about APs because the whole aim is to teach beginners which never did certain dungeons how to play them.

What I am trying to say is don’t judge people which make achievement points conditions because most of them simply want to do a speed clear. Their party, their rules. Its nothing personal.

JustCurious.3457:

I have played since headstart, I have over 1000+ hours of experience on Guardian, Warrior and Elementalist. I make use of the meta builds, I run full zerk on them all and I have experience in most (screw CM) dungeons. I still have less than 5k AP.

IMO it is not a great measurement for experience, but it is the only one available. I generally have to make my own groups as I can’t join the others, I mostly run dungeons for gold so I’m looking for the ‘FULL ZERK BLAH BLAH’ ads so I can get fast and smooth runs, and sadly a large proportion of those have an AP requirement that I don’t meet.

And on the other hand I have over 10k AP and I don’t even know where half the dungeons are.

It’s a terrible metric.

Heh, yeah, I’m in a similar situation. I’m coming up to 17,500 AP, yet I still haven’t been to the level 70+ maps, I’ve never played CoF, HotW, CoE or Arah, and I still haven’t completed my Personal Story.

Zaxares.5419:

Heh, yeah, I’m in a similar situation. I’m coming up to 17,500 AP, yet I still haven’t been to the level 70+ maps, I’ve never played CoF, HotW, CoE or Arah, and I still haven’t completed my Personal Story.

All I could think about.

Zaxares.5419:

Heh, yeah, I’m in a similar situation. I’m coming up to 17,500 AP, yet I still haven’t been to the level 70+ maps, I’ve never played CoF, HotW, CoE or Arah, and I still haven’t completed my Personal Story.

17500 AP and never been to Orr? I’ll call BS on that.

Clear.8512:

LFG is to help people find like minded individuals to run with. I have no requirements when I run my group because I like it care free and sometimes an additional challenge of shouldering the load or not stacking.

There is nothing wrong for a speed run player or anyone for that matter to form a group with their own specifications. If he wants to kick you because he hates you name..that is totally fine.

The elitest are not preventing you from running a dungeon, they are just preventing you from running in their group which is fine.

I only see this argument valid if there is a lfg just saying p1 with no written requirements as that can be annoying..but again their choice and it is your choice to start a group or try to join one.

I take some exception to your use of the word “fine” in the above examples, but I’m guessing the reason you used is more defensive than you mean to let on here. Those things are certainly within the rules and everything you stated is true, but being rude, and snobbish should never be described as “fine”, IMO.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Clear.8512:

LFG is to help people find like minded individuals to run with. I have no requirements when I run my group because I like it care free and sometimes an additional challenge of shouldering the load or not stacking.

There is nothing wrong for a speed run player or anyone for that matter to form a group with their own specifications. If he wants to kick you because he hates you name..that is totally fine.

The elitest are not preventing you from running a dungeon, they are just preventing you from running in their group which is fine.

I only see this argument valid if there is a lfg just saying p1 with no written requirements as that can be annoying..but again their choice and it is your choice to start a group or try to join one.

I take some exception to your use of the word “fine” in the above examples, but I’m guessing the reason you used is more defensive than you mean to let on here. Those things are certainly within the rules and everything you stated is true, but being rude, and snobbish should never be described as “fine”, IMO.

Is it snobbish that certain sport leagues only request players with sufficient talent? Is it snobbish that certain meet up groups require a certain age group?

No. It is perfectly fine that a group states from the start that they only accept members according to certain critera. Why should they invite someone they do not like? Just cause you are there doesn’t mean you are entitled to join in at a whim.

Am I rude and a snob if I want to have an elite 5 minute AC run and not have to deal with a 30 minute AC run full of people dying?

If the LFG listing says “No noobs, only +7k AP”, then yeah I could see that as rude

but a listing that merely says “+7K AP only” or “lvl 80’s only” is not snobbish. I don’t see how in the world you could see it like that

Vol.7601:

Zaxares.5419:

Heh, yeah, I’m in a similar situation. I’m coming up to 17,500 AP, yet I still haven’t been to the level 70+ maps, I’ve never played CoF, HotW, CoE or Arah, and I still haven’t completed my Personal Story.

17500 AP and never been to Orr? I’ll call BS on that.

That guy RP’s and plays all of his toons together as if they’re traveling together. It’s possible to have that much AP if he farmed dailies and monthlies.

Edit: Fixed because of Anet’s filtering spazzing out.

NumenorLord.6539:

Ayrilana.1396:

AP doesn’t signify skill. All it does is show that you likely have an understanding of basic mechanics.

This

Vayne.8563:

I have over 18,000 HP, I doubt very much anyone would consider me pro.

AP, not HP… Lord…

VodCom.6924:

Players with high AP are either:
- hunting achievements (i.e living world completionist and regular completionist)
- Playing all aspects of the game on a regular basis
- Play much more than they should one single aspect of the game (grind AP though one single activity)

As far as I can see, nobody can conclude ANYTHING about dungeon running skill from the level of AP. AP is earned everwhere in this game, so high level of AP means you play a lot. That’s it.

It’s a bad habit of elite wannabe who want to ape recordmen speed clearers and try to feel good by imposing AP requirements on the LFG. They are just too lazy to teach people how to do dungeons so they are filtering.

No. You might get surprised but the highest source of AP is getting your Daily done and playing the game over time. Players with high AP, as said before, have been around enough time to understand basics and know what to do in most dungeons paths.

Problem with new players is that they don’t say they’re new and they might be lvl 80 but don’t know what’s going on around them and don’t ask for directions/instructions because they’re afraid of being kicked out. This results in a slow/painful experience in dungeons where you must have a basic understanding and a minimum concentration. Also, being under lvl 80 will always mean lack of dps.

What you can do is join/create parties where you specify “No speed – First timers – All lvls welcome- Learning”. Or just run with friends/guildies, with no presure.

If you’re not willing to do this please go and watch one of the hundreds of youtube guides that are made for EVERY dungeon path and keep getting updated.

Dude it was a typo. I have over 18,000 achievement points.

Make your own group and advertise it properly in LFG. You won’t get kicked.
AP may be misjudged sometimes, but overall it is very good indicator of how noobish can someone be.

It happened to me many times, that when I was grouped with pugs and something went wrong, it was always because of some low-AP player.

The game needs some more low-level dungeons and some design changes, where no one can be kicked from low-level dungeons!!! The big issue is, the current low-level dungeons don’t work for low level characters!

Sola.7250:

The game needs some more low-level dungeons and some design changes, where no one can be kicked from low-level dungeons!!! The big issue is, the current low-level dungeons don’t work for low level characters!

They do. Many people have completed them as low levels. There’s just more room for error doing such as compared to being a level 80 with all of the traits and gear.