Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

They just add a small fraction of content that eventually becomes as stale as existing content. The only difference is that due to their significantly smaller size, this occurs much quicker.

Eventually. But for a while, they would have done their job to freshen up the game and add variety. The latter will continue to be true even if the content becomes stale. For example, 9 dungeons is more choices than 8. Even if the dungeon community learns to run the dungeon just as well as the other 8, that 9th dungeon is still another choice for dungeon runners to do.

Forum just glitched again and I’m unable to view the first page so I’ll just summarize my argument as it’s been split apart by several people distorting it.

My opinion is that classes, races, and additional skills are not really significant content but more along the lines as fluff. I believe I used the phrase of secondary content in this thread.

I made a post with them split out as being the sole release to make this point. Of course they would not be the only content released. By splitting out each of the three content items as an individual release, I was attempting to argue that they each offer very little in the regards to content. They’re still content, but very minor despite what one person suggested.

A new race would purely cosmetic and no different than giving you a tonic that let’s you use it in combat. The only difference is that a new race would be permanente. Anything such as a new starter zone and personal story would fall under playable content (for the lack of a better term) as you can release a new race without this.

Skills don’t really add any new content than the skill balancing updates do. When we get major updates like those, the meta changes. Some skills/utilities become more desirable and people start using those. That’s really no different than having new skills added. There are a lot of utilities and skills that are rarely used by players. If they gave them a viable purpose, would you still complain?

You will not see a substantial number of skills released in an expansion. This is due to balancing issues. We’ve seen several skills (utilities) released already. A lot of which are not used but do you really think that would be any different if they released 20? If you want new utilities then create a thread and suggest what you would like to see. That is a lot more constructive than demanding new content without specifics. This would give Anet something to work with.

New classes will have you experiencing the same content. You’ll have a new play style just like how warrior and mesmer are different. However, the feeling of “newness” will quickly fade as you’d still be experiencing the same old content. A new class, by itself, offers very little and will have an insignificant impact on player experience. Adding a Dervish class on November 4th really would not change anything. Players will still demand more classes a month or two later citing what we have isn’t enough.

Rather than do new classes, I’d prefer to have them bring back secondary classes. With it, give players the limited ability to customize skill sets. if you select a mesmer/guardian, your GS #5 slot would be a choice between those two skills between the classes. This would still be a very intensive feature to add to the game due to balancing.

I lost my train of though as I’ve been typing this off an on for the past hour or so. If you’re all upset about how new content is released then offer suggestions on what you would like to see. Create a player run CDI and have someone manage all of the ideas and catalogue them into a few of the posts at the beginning of the thread. Some people have done this for class bugs. After you have all of the ideas logged, present it to Anet.

I think if they were to return to a secondary class mechanic that the only thing you’d be able to change would be your utility/elites, while your primary profession determines your weapon skills.

Because no two classes uses the same weapons, allowing those to be shared would kinda LIMIT builds in a way, rather than expanding them (because you’d only get decent synergy with specific classes with specific weapons).

I kind of agree with Ayrilana. Anet added new heals and new traits, but Im’ not sure anyone actually use them. The only time I used the new heals on my warrior is doing the reactor room in fractal.

Unless Anet do a complete overhaul, there probably won’t be noticeable difference. If new skills or new weapon is released, they need to be significant enough that it’ll completely change the play style.

Secondary classes will probably never happen. That’s too much modification of basic game mechanics to ever see the light of day in anything but a complete re-release of the game. If they think new players had trouble understanding the systems in the game as they were, how do you think they’d make it “easier to understand” for what is basically an exponential increase of the number of class possibilities? That’s just PvE too, the impact to PvP would be fatal (Mesmer/Thieves, Mesmer/Thieves everywhere).

My point in my previous posts was that if the basic mechanics of the game are good enough, that will be enough to continually draw back players, or at the very least, it’s enough to continue drawing me back. If the base game doesn’t get “stale” to the point where I don’t have any motivation to continue playing, then any add-on content will only build on that base and make the game even more enjoyable, regardless of the nature of it.

That’s been true, at least for me, for the previous events. I missed out on Wintersday, but the first and second Halloween, as well as events like the Queen’s Jubilee and the Crown Pavillion all enticed me to not only continue playing the game but to try out the new and interesting events. I spent an obscene amount of time and in-game money trying to beat Liadri, and I enjoyed every hour of failure. So for me, at least, the sort of drastic change in content isn’t exactly necessary.

It’s only when they do stupid stuff like change the gem conversion process that I start thinking that they should make expansions, if only to prevent the microtransaction focus from consuming the game.

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t really consider new races or classes as content. If you commute 100 miles every day to work, would buying a car really add onto or change the experience? New skills could change up the current meta but in the end, people will go with what is optimal and it won’t be any different than now.

That’s why you build your game around the fact that people will go with whatever that’s optimal. You make a certain bit of the content favor a certain type of build, and another another type of build, then people will run different builds for different content.

Or you don’t even need to do that. Simply having different skills which feels different but end up basically doing the same thing isn’t bad, because it changes up the gameplay.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t really consider new races or classes as content. If you commute 100 miles every day to work, would buying a car really add onto or change the experience? New skills could change up the current meta but in the end, people will go with what is optimal and it won’t be any different than now.

That’s why you build your game around the fact that people will go with whatever that’s optimal. You make a certain bit of the content favor a certain type of build, and another another type of build, then people will run different builds for different content.

Or you don’t even need to do that. Simply having different skills which feels different but end up basically doing the same thing isn’t bad, because it changes up the gameplay.

They should make better use of the existing classes first. How do you think condition damage players currently feel at the moment? I’m pretty sure they’d prefer a condition damage overhaul before we start seeing new classes. When it comes to classes, they should improve upon what we have now before adding new ones. Quality before quantity.

Edit: Realized that you were talking about skills and not classes but I’ll keep the post.

There are a lot of skills that players do not use. They can continue to evolve them so they become more appealing. Players just need to say what they want in a constructive way. Most of what I see are complaints saying “Fix this now” or “Add more of this”. That’s not going to go anywhere.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

It’s only when they do stupid stuff like change the gem conversion process that I start thinking that they should make expansions, if only to prevent the microtransaction focus from consuming the game.

The problem with this line of thought is that battle is already over and smart customers lost years ago. EVERY game (even subscription ones) run some degree of microtransactions. It’s simply too huge of a money maker. Going to a traditional expansion model won’t change the gem store focus, I don’t think.

Xillllix.3485:

~Snip~

B- Working on another game: http://www.examiner.com/article/guild-wars-2-publisher-inks-unreal-engine-4-guild-wars-3-coming

~Snip~

Who ever wrote that article is grasping at straws. NCSoft licensed the Unreal 4 Engine, not Arena.net. Arena.net developed GW2 with their own proprietary software(and I’m sure some commercial products) and engine. To extrapolate from NCSoft licensing the Unreal 4 engine to Arena.net making GW3 with it is huge stretch of the imagination.

The Living World Expanding.
It is all in this topic. Imo.

The issue is that: expanding too slow if we compare it to our demands.
Wish to see in near future something that infuse a little my story/lore.lust
Tommorow maybe we will see a kind of sneak-peak about next patch.

Yup. They need some stellar expansion. Something with a large new map and a metric *#&$ ton of new content… complete with new world boss, dungeons, fractals, and farms.

I’d much rather pay $120 for two copies for my wife and I than more LS… I stopped buying gems awhile back because LS ain’t cutting it content wise. After we get our AP the wife and I go back to what we were doing before LS…. which is dungeons, fractals, and guild stuff.

the only reason i want to see a expansion

is if we get new classes new traits new weapons . plz no more story i am drowning in it

they should add factions and wvw/pvp to the open world pve maps ….

custom castles/keeps
something your guild can feel like they built and own ……

in short … bring a lil of arche age in to gw2
AND BLOW THAT GAME OUT OF THE WATER

Ayrilana.1396:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t really consider new races or classes as content. If you commute 100 miles every day to work, would buying a car really add onto or change the experience? New skills could change up the current meta but in the end, people will go with what is optimal and it won’t be any different than now.

That’s why you build your game around the fact that people will go with whatever that’s optimal. You make a certain bit of the content favor a certain type of build, and another another type of build, then people will run different builds for different content.

Or you don’t even need to do that. Simply having different skills which feels different but end up basically doing the same thing isn’t bad, because it changes up the gameplay.

They should make better use of the existing classes first. How do you think condition damage players currently feel at the moment? I’m pretty sure they’d prefer a condition damage overhaul before we start seeing new classes. When it comes to classes, they should improve upon what we have now before adding new ones. Quality before quantity.

Edit: Realized that you were talking about skills and not classes but I’ll keep the post.

There are a lot of skills that players do not use. They can continue to evolve them so they become more appealing. Players just need to say what they want in a constructive way. Most of what I see are complaints saying “Fix this now” or “Add more of this”. That’s not going to go anywhere.

The problem with half those skills is that they are useful, but the game just doesn’t ever need you to use it.

Besides that, Im actually quite convinced they can’t ever fix things like conditions. They adamantly stick to their stance that PvE and PvP should be balanced under the same umrella, when even on a fundamental level, the requirements and objectives of both modes are worlds apart.

Ayrilana.1396:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t really consider new races or classes as content. If you commute 100 miles every day to work, would buying a car really add onto or change the experience? New skills could change up the current meta but in the end, people will go with what is optimal and it won’t be any different than now.

That’s why you build your game around the fact that people will go with whatever that’s optimal. You make a certain bit of the content favor a certain type of build, and another another type of build, then people will run different builds for different content.

Or you don’t even need to do that. Simply having different skills which feels different but end up basically doing the same thing isn’t bad, because it changes up the gameplay.

They should make better use of the existing classes first. How do you think condition damage players currently feel at the moment? I’m pretty sure they’d prefer a condition damage overhaul before we start seeing new classes. When it comes to classes, they should improve upon what we have now before adding new ones. Quality before quantity.

Edit: Realized that you were talking about skills and not classes but I’ll keep the post.

There are a lot of skills that players do not use. They can continue to evolve them so they become more appealing. Players just need to say what they want in a constructive way. Most of what I see are complaints saying “Fix this now” or “Add more of this”. That’s not going to go anywhere.

fixing current mechanics is nice and something they should do, but its even less of an effect than new skills/traits, because its the same skills and traits you used 10000 times, only now they work slightly better.

Its all subjective, you want to take your old charachters and do some new stuff. I want to take some new proffessions and do some new stuff. I think they should do both. After all, not everyone is going to try or like a new class no matter how different it is.

I would say they should create a new level 80 overarching plotline, add 2-3 new proffessions (preferably one martial artsist h2h) and some new zones. ALong with new game modes, game goals, etc. Look at Factions and Nightfall for some clues. None of the jobs truely capture the essence of my prefered playstyle, so im looking foward to more proffessions.

mtpelion.4562:

Greetings, time traveler! You’ve arrived in 2014!

Unfortunately, expansions in this day and age are a bygone thing of yore. We still pine for them due to nostalgia, but game publishers have learned that they can make substantially more money doing substantially less work and with substantially less risk by simply nickel and diming the market with DLC.

If it is an expansion you seek, I suggest you return to your original timeline. Here, we just read about them in history books.

I’m amused how this thought process is believed to be valid. There are several MMOs that still use the paid expansion model and are doing quite well. DCUO and WoW to name two right off the bat. Both of those games sell expansions on a regular basis and do actually exist in our current timeline. WoW also currently posted and INCREASE in membership over the last quarter by 600k or so. Increase. Wonder if that has something to do with their paid expansion getting released soon?

Just because ANet seems to have abandoned the paid expansion model doesn’t mean that it isn’t a valid point of discussion or valid market model. Evidence says otherwise.

Ayrilana.1396:

They just add a small fraction of content that eventually becomes as stale as existing content. The only difference is that due to their significantly smaller size, this occurs much quicker.

If that’s the only different you see, then you’re not looking at things objectively.

mtpelion.4562:

Greetings, time traveler! You’ve arrived in 2014!

Unfortunately, expansions in this day and age are a bygone thing of yore. We still pine for them due to nostalgia, but game publishers have learned that they can make substantially more money doing substantially less work and with substantially less risk by simply nickel and diming the market with DLC.

If it is an expansion you seek, I suggest you return to your original timeline. Here, we just read about them in history books.

Rift, WoW, SWTOR, and many others beg otherwise.

Rift just released its second expansion and is getting buzz again. Tera, a game many people had forgotten even existed despite the fact it’s pretty good, just announced it’s first expansion and is starting to get buzz. In fact, I think the first commenter on the Massively article announcing the expansion said something along the lines of “I’ll have to go check it out again.”

Buzz is vital. People still argue about WOW Cata; but the important thing is, they’re still talking about it. WOW keeps getting brought up, while GW2 has gone sleepy time.

Personally, I just want GW2 to realize it’s potential, I don’t care if that’s through meaty, substantial living world updates or through a formal expansion.

But it seems like expansions are good ways to announce to the world that your game is still relevant; that it really does have a serious design team behind it, working; that it is growing; and that it is a good long-term investment.

I’m not sure that devs fully appreciate just how much gamers need to have that reassurance: yes, we (the devs/publishers) haven’t abandoned the game. No, it’s not on maintenance mode. Yes, we are thinking of ways to serve the customer and not just milk them for quick gem store cash.

After all, why should I give my time and money to a game that isn’t taking it’s own development seriously, and may not be around long-term?

Squeesidhe.4761:

Rift just released its second expansion and is getting buzz again. Tera, a game many people had forgotten even existed despite the fact it’s pretty good, just announced it’s first expansion and is starting to get buzz. In fact, I think the first commenter on the Massively article announcing the expansion said something along the lines of “I’ll have to go check it out again.”

Buzz is vital. People still argue about WOW Cata; but the important thing is, they’re still talking about it. WOW keeps getting brought up, while GW2 has gone sleepy time.

Personally, I just want GW2 to realize it’s potential, I don’t care if that’s through meaty, substantial living world updates or through a formal expansion.

But it seems like expansions are good ways to announce to the world that your game is still relevant; that it really does have a serious design team behind it, working; that it is growing; and that it is a good long-term investment.

I’m not sure that devs fully appreciate just how much gamers need to have that reassurance: yes, we (the devs/publishers) haven’t abandoned the game. No, it’s not on maintenance mode. Yes, we are thinking of ways to serve the customer and not just milk them for quick gem store cash.

After all, why should I give my time and money to a game that isn’t taking it’s own development seriously, and may not be around long-term?

I’m curious if Anet is aware of the level of buzz generation it’s living story system is able to generate. My guess is that they are and are trying to market it but it’s still missing some key elements to make it a success. I know that massively and possibly a few other mmo news outlets have reported on the last several living story segments. But Anet must be aware that doing something that people don’t usually expect means that people aren’t going to be listening out for it. I think they just haven’t hit that level of noteworthiness with the way it’s being delivered. Expansions are only noteworthy because they, typically, deliver what people expect. If/when the living story system hits people with what they want (YMMV) it will start generating sufficient buzz. Until then, it’s not going to be newsworthy in a positive way. Still too experimental.

FF14 ARR got 2 new character classes in a patch update… now theyre getting an expansion with a lot more content, and 2 more classess…. yep

expansion spoiler,
another continent is revealed with events and non-linear storyline.. you need to make several characters to play this.. while people are still getting adjusted 3 months into the expansion there will be a mob mash of raging elephants.. the entire playerbase will bask in the amazing add-on and zerg the king elephant down.. just when everyone is ready to explore the game and invite their friends along, there will be small bits of an 18 month confrontation against a quirky warlord.. we will all be intellectually stimulated at the revelation of a 7th human god, a 7th elder dragon, and an open world raid involving tyrias largest catapult.. while we are waiting for the expansions expansion, we’ll use our power-leveled characters to grind out the same event daily for a familiar loot set.. meanwhile, we can look forward to sharing whatever content hasn’t been removed with any newcomers..
sound about right?
i’ll wait until it’s on sale this time. . .

The game needs an expansion but it doesn’t look like its every going to happen. ANet’s joined at the hip to this LS disaster of content adding.

No expansion please. GW2 has always tried to avoid the mistakes of previous MMOs and paid expansions were part of the tired, unthinking, dogmatic financing of the last generation. No level cap increase. No gear grind. No instanced raids. No waits for 12 months between updates. No expansion.

Serophous.9085:

So when people rush through the expansion and start complaining about being bored after a month, need a new expansion again right?

Yes. Grow or die. The choice is simple.

All of the white knights going on about how the customers (not players – everyone needs to start seeing themselves as Anet’s paying customers not just “fans” or “players”) are the reason ANet shouldn’t expand or won’t expand the game are being foolish. Of course customers will complain – some will always complain no matter what. So what. Dealing with complaining customers is part of the business. Period. You don’t like that part of the business – tough kitten either learn to deal with it and accept that truth or find another job. If you do that you might also recognize a simple truth: All too frequently complaining customers are actually right . . .

My fear is that ANet may have made a bad decision (no expansion just LS) and would rather stick with it than ever admit their “vision” or “direction” or “leadership” was less than stellar. Its always good to experiment but its also good to understand that sometimes things are the way the are for fundamentally sound reasons. Other MMOs seem to get this – regardless of whatever else they get right or wrong – and at least try to grow.

Stooperdale.3560:

No expansion please. GW2 has always tried to avoid the mistakes of previous MMOs and paid expansions were part of the tired, unthinking, dogmatic financing of the last generation. No level cap increase. No gear grind. No instanced raids. No waits for 12 months between updates. No expansion.

I’m sorry is GW2 your 1st MMO ? lets see

WoW how many expacs that bring in NEW Players ? TBC higher player count than vanilla WoW Wrath the peak of WoW now WoD subs are up 600k with no content for 1 year because…. that’s right and expansion.

DCUO has like 12 EQ/EQ2 got so many I lost count lol

DUCO is like GW1 the level cap is low level 20 and the expacs offer new content, with new gear.

GW2 offers new gear for a price ie the store, for 2 years how many new skins have been in game only ? only ppl who want GW2 to die or fade away to nothing want no expacs.

living story isn’t even remotely considered content, its 20 mins of fluff that doesn’t matter because it doesn’t stay.

think what Factions and Nightfall brought to GW1, then Anet killed it with EoTN and saying last ever content lol

and just FYI GW2 is far more of a grind than WoW lol I came back to WoW last week and fully geared within a few days.

Living World is fine in my opinion. It allows users to “pay”, but dedicated fans to get it for free, while also opening up completely new areas of the world for free as well.

Why pay twice, for an expansion, for a game I already own?

I think what you guys mean by expansion, you don’t mean a “box”-expansion, but a HUUUGE content and feature update released every few months.

Ayrilana.1396:

So let’s say that you have a flat, straight road that you drive down to work for 100 miles every day. There’s absolutely no scenery to look at. You’ve been doing this for 10 years. You’re telling me that hanging vehicles (from a van to a motorcycle) would change this from being less boring? You’re still experiencing the same driving content.

Lol, I find this funny. You’re trying to add so many specifics to your inconsequential analogy to make your point do what?

Here, I’ll add some extra to your analogy to express my point of view:

So let’s say that you have a flat, straight road that you drive down to work for 100 miles every day. There’s absolutely no scenery to look at. You’ve been doing this for 10 years. You have cancer and you only have around 3 years left of life. You’ve always wanted to do something exciting and new to break up the monotony of your obligations to your work…

Hell yeah, a motorcycle will add something to the experience! Especially if you’ve always wanted to get a motorcycle. Heck, you’ve only got a finite time to live, strap on a jetpack or handglide to work every now and again would be a dream come true! Even if it’s the same bland road, you still have the weekends! You can ride your motorcycle to other places besides work too, go make your own journey through the same countryside you’ve known. SOMETHING!

I think my point is, for some people, they have a finite time to experience the game. Giving more options to do so is NOT arbitrary and can be very significant. Hell, the game in and of itself is finite. The servers won’t be open for eternity. There have been greater games that have been yanked from existence with but a moment’s notice. When the game is on its death bed, I’d have rather they added Tengu and enjoyed its aesthetics, its story, its style than been like “Dang, too bad I couldn’t finally make my Necromancer Tengu like I envisioned so so long ago!”

Whether one considers such things as content is dependent on how they play the game. One thing that I feel is not garnered in this game is alt-ability. There’s not too much reason to make lots of alts. I have 2 eles and 2 warriors and they play different only because I enforce it. One warrior uses axes, shield, rifle, mace, warhorn while the other specializes in greatsword, hammer, swords, bow. They keep to different core trait set-ups and armor styles but only I am keeping them distinct outside of their personal stories. Adding another race can be just retreading the same road for some people, but it’s not going to be that for everyone. Personally, getting the Tengu race would be like me riding ontop of a motorcycle backwards while shooting down invisible tetris blocks that I’m seeing because I took some crazy mushrooms before the trip. It’ll be different because I want it to be, and it will be.

+1 for an actual expansion.

living story is an extremely linear, irrelevant hour or so of gameplay that I have to force myself through. :P

Let’s say that Anet released Tengu as a playable eace and nothing else. Would that really add anything to the game if you had already experienced all of the existing content? Would doing the personal story, dungeons, world boss zergs, etc be any different as a different race?

It can be. Perhaps some players who have never tried RP would give it a shot because they connect more with that race, or they might play more of a certain profession that they have limited experience on because they like how the armor looks on that race.

Let’s say Anet adds the Dervish class to the game tomorrow and only that. Would that really add anything to the game? You’re still experiencing the same content but with a different play-style. You’re telling me that running AC or CoF for the 1.000th time will be different as a new class?

Perhaps that new class might make hugely good use of some obscure weapon that you never really liked or used (like the Torch) and so you seek a whole wardrobe of skins you’ve never bothered to get because they didn’t mesh with the styles you’ve played with but now would look super good with this new weapon type you’re using.

Let’s say that Anet adds 100 new skills to the game tomorrow and only that. Would that really add anything new to the already existing content that you wouldn’t get from a major skill balance update? There will always be a meta and it would just change to use those existing skills.

Same as above. Now you might use weapons or utilities you never bothered with or couldn’t manage to squeeze in before. It might unearth a whole plethora of content you might have previously only dabbled in previously. You might find yourself rerolling several more alts because a favored aesthetic style has been uncovered. You might even go out of your way to make a new journey for yourself, inside or outside of the game that invigorated your desire to participated in the game to new heights. You might feel a desire to create your own guild, seek certain skins, write/draw/create personality and backstory to characters you’ve made, make websites or reach out to be more a part of the GW2 community by participating in live events.

Of course, an expansion might also do none of those things for you…nothing is written in stone. What an expansion will or won’t do depends on what’s in it and the quality of that content. You or I cannot definitively say.

Ayrilana.1396:

Not so much. New races, classes, and skills are secondary content. They’re not something that could hold well on their own. New campaigns, on the other hand, would actually be substantial content. I’ve played this game since launch and have played 7/8 classes. Me playing all of that as an engineer isn’t really going to change my experience.

Think you have yet to grasp that what content is isn’t always related to what content means to accomplish in the game.

You labeling content as primary content or secondary content is about as consequential as labeling it as strawberry content and banana content. It doesn’t matter, it’s going to give different people different experiences within the game. Your circumstances are not shared by all nor is it the majority.