Guild Wars 2

Since you cant opt out of playing with beta content like reaper rev, etc. You can no longer queue pvp without running into beta content.

Personally, I absolutely can not stand beta tests. I dont like dealing with balance problems or bugs. I never sign up for beta tests for anything. Why am I unable to choose to participate in this? I want to pvp without the stupid beta stuff.

Allow us to select whether or not we want to play with beta content forgodssake

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests…. and instead we just got the professions added to the game in their current broken state when HoT released.

That would mean that everyone playing would be abusing the broken aspects of the new specs…. rather than a few handfuls of people willing to beta test in real pvp.

If testing did not occur this way, the problem would simply be delayed and it would be 80x worse when the problem finally did surface.

Beta testing pvp is a necessary evil, and I can’t think of any other way to handle the situation.

I fully agree with TheBlackLeech. Better now than at release.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests….

This is a strawman argument. I didnt say they shouldnt get tests. Thats not what I said. You’ve made an argument against a position I didnt present. There are plenty of people who want to test them.

But they are putting BETA content on LIVE servers, rather than testing BETA content on BETA servers (such as opting into the beta test by a simple checkbox in the pvp window)

This is not OK.

What would the motivation be for someone to play an existing build in PvP in your opt-in test? With your opt-in suggestion, you’d likely see a lot more of Elite/Rev v. Elite/Rev, which would not provide a good basis for comparison.

The only thing I hate is people coming into dungeons on beta characters.

Would probably require too much work, which most players would prefer for Anet to put in finishing HoT instead.

IndigoSundown.5419:

What would the motivation be for someone to play an existing build in PvP in your opt-in test? With your opt-in suggestion, you’d likely see a lot more of Elite/Rev v. Elite/Rev, which would not provide a good basis for comparison.

They could enable a better reward bonus for people beta testing, and have a system where only 2-4 people can be the new class at a time. I dont know. It could be anything.

I assume its why the have the bonus at all, is because they intend to drive people to pvp for more data.

This is the problem testing an MMO, you need lots of players to do a proper test.

If they had a dedicated beta server region (need 3 for WvW) I doubt there would be enough players for either WvW or populate enough maps in central Tyria to do a proper test. Plus beta players are likely playing mostly with the elite specializations. The devs need to see how they work with the non-elite professions in all game modes, including PvP.

If you are upset now just wait until the game launches and elite specializations are around all the time.

Envy.1679:

This is a strawman argument.

As is your premise.

Anet forcing players to beta test

Anet isn’t forcing anyone to do anything. If you hate it so much, don’t participate. It’s that simple. You can live without GW2 for a weekend.

Right?

Mmmmm. Maybe…… The needs of the many outweigh the wants of the few, or the one.

Umm no I chose not to beta therefore I am not being forced

Envy.1679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests….

This is a strawman argument. I didnt say they shouldnt get tests. Thats not what I said. You’ve made an argument against a position I didnt present. There are plenty of people who want to test them.

But they are putting BETA content on LIVE servers, rather than testing BETA content on BETA servers (such as opting into the beta test by a simple checkbox in the pvp window)

This is not OK.

He did not make a strawman fallacy. He said the elite specs need to be tested, and that he cannot think of a good way to do so outside of the current method. At no point did he make the claim that you were saying they shouldn’t get tests.

CETheLucid.3964:

Envy.1679:

This is a strawman argument.

As is your premise.

Anet forcing players to beta test

Anet isn’t forcing anyone to do anything. If you hate it so much, don’t participate. It’s that simple. You can live without GW2 for a weekend.

Right?

I want to pvp without beta content. I didnt sign up for a beta. I want to play what I payed for, not test unbalanced content.

Its not hard to understand.

Also, “as is your premise”? What? How can I make a strawman argument when I wasnt arguing against someones argument at all? You clearly dont know what strawman even means

glehmann.9586:

Envy.1679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests….

This is a strawman argument. I didnt say they shouldnt get tests. Thats not what I said. You’ve made an argument against a position I didnt present. There are plenty of people who want to test them.

But they are putting BETA content on LIVE servers, rather than testing BETA content on BETA servers (such as opting into the beta test by a simple checkbox in the pvp window)

This is not OK.

He did not make a strawman fallacy. He said the elite specs need to be tested, and that he cannot think of a good way to do so outside of the current method. At no point did he make the claim that you were saying they shouldn’t get tests.

My position was that I want an option not to play with beta content. My position was not that beta content should not be tested. You can do both seperately.

Since he was arguing against a argument that I never made (beta content shouldnt be tested), yes, it is infact a strawman argument. If you don’t think so you either dont understand my argument or you dont understand what a strawman argument is.

I’m kinda happy they forced it in my face, it told me that I either need to buy the expansion to keep up or leave the game when it goes live.

IndigoSundown.5419:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests…. and instead we just got the professions added to the game in their current broken state when HoT released.

That would mean that everyone playing would be abusing the broken aspects of the new specs…. rather than a few handfuls of people willing to beta test in real pvp.

If testing did not occur this way, the problem would simply be delayed and it would be 80x worse when the problem finally did surface.

Beta testing pvp is a necessary evil, and I can’t think of any other way to handle the situation.

I fully agree with TheBlackLeech. Better now than at release.

What makes you think that it aint going to be buggy at release?

Behellagh.1468:

This is the problem testing an MMO, you need lots of players to do a proper test.

If they had a dedicated beta server region (need 3 for WvW) I doubt there would be enough players for either WvW or populate enough maps in central Tyria to do a proper test. Plus beta players are likely playing mostly with the elite specializations. The devs need to see how they work with the non-elite professions in all game modes, including PvP.

If you are upset now just wait until the game launches and elite specializations are around all the time.

Verdant Brink feels dead enough as it is.

Envy.1679:

Since you cant opt out of playing with beta content like reaper rev, etc. You can no longer queue pvp without running into beta content.

Personally, I absolutely can not stand beta tests. I dont like dealing with balance problems or bugs. I never sign up for beta tests for anything. Why am I unable to choose to participate in this? I want to pvp without the stupid beta stuff.

Allow us to select whether or not we want to play with beta content forgodssake

not a single person in the world is holding a gun against your head and demanding you play any beta game what so ever. it is your own choice because YOU WANT to play the current game with it is added beta items/characters.

Ok, so the only thing you are a little upset with, are the beta charcters in pvp, that about it?

mcwurth.2081:

not a single person in the world is holding a gun against your head and demanding you play any beta game what so ever. \

And? Thats not my argument. Im not saying someone is physically force me to play the game.

Im saying that I want to play pvp, and for players who dont want to beta test, its forced upon them.

Its simple to understand. Stop trying to make the argument into something its not.

This is comparable to:

“I hate taking this traffic route to the store. I wish they would add another road”

“hurr durr no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to go to the store”

Just stop.

To be fair, you did not explain your self so well at first, but I think I finally understand what your saying,

ANet is just channeling their inner Asura.

Facing players with unfamiliar abilities must remind you back to the time when you first started PvP.

But be happy with the knowledge that data from your match will provide the necessary information to tune these new elite specializations. And look on the bright side, this early expose to them gives you more time to derive a counter.

Huck.1405:

IndigoSundown.5419:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests…. and instead we just got the professions added to the game in their current broken state when HoT released.

That would mean that everyone playing would be abusing the broken aspects of the new specs…. rather than a few handfuls of people willing to beta test in real pvp.

If testing did not occur this way, the problem would simply be delayed and it would be 80x worse when the problem finally did surface.

Beta testing pvp is a necessary evil, and I can’t think of any other way to handle the situation.

I fully agree with TheBlackLeech. Better now than at release.

What makes you think that it aint going to be buggy at release?

Since the OP is not asking that the specs not be tested, this is kind of a moot point. However, starting sooner rather than later seems like a good idea, as balance is a process, not an off/on switch.

Hi, you can turn to option to play stronghold off in the pvp queue window, right of your rank.

You are welcome :-)

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

Hi, you can turn to option to play stronghold off in the pvp queue window, right of your rank.

You are welcome :-)

He upset that beta characters them self can go into random pvp with there new ability and win or lose vs him.

Soon they will be ‘forcing’ you to buy the expansion under your logic. Guess you have a busy forum time ahead of you.

Envy.1679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests….

This is a strawman argument. I didnt say they shouldnt get tests. Thats not what I said. You’ve made an argument against a position I didnt present. There are plenty of people who want to test them.

But they are putting BETA content on LIVE servers, rather than testing BETA content on BETA servers (such as opting into the beta test by a simple checkbox in the pvp window)

This is not OK.

It actually is okay.
What you are demanding is not true for a game that is in everchanging flux.
You knew that when you signed up for this game.
You knew that they will change the game with every patch and that it will be broken at some point of it`s livecycle because of it.

So them putting beta mechanics into an live enviroment to test for a weekend is actually in your interest, instead against it.

You are basicaly biting the hand that feeds you right now, as you are apearently not able to live for a weekend without your precious balance, which they try to keep with these tests.

Isn`t it a bit counterintuitive?

Would you sop firemen from entering a house that is burning, because they have to cross your yard, resulting on your house also getting on fire?

No you wouldn`t.
Same here.
They test for a weekend. After that it will be all back to basics till ocobre 23, when then get all released and mess up your precious PvP balance again, till they fixed the rest of the bugs and balance problems they didn`t get in the live beta tests.

Actually, you are not beta testing at all. In order to beta test you have to play the new class and or everything else that comes with HoT, which you do not.

You are only watching someone else doing it

technically he is right though, he is beta testing his normal build vs a build not allowed to the public yet

It’s arather small inconvenience, for a short period of time, to ensure we have a more balanced product at release.

Just live with it.

Envy.1679:

Since you cant opt out of playing with beta content like reaper rev, etc. You can no longer queue pvp without running into beta content.

Personally, I absolutely can not stand beta tests. I dont like dealing with balance problems or bugs. I never sign up for beta tests for anything. Why am I unable to choose to participate in this? I want to pvp without the stupid beta stuff.

Allow us to select whether or not we want to play with beta content forgodssake

You are not testing, they are. You mean you don’t like playing along aide people who are beta testing. It’s for one weekend. Suck it up. ANet is not forcing anyone to play the game this weekend.

Envy.1679:

CETheLucid.3964:

Envy.1679:

This is a strawman argument.

As is your premise.

Anet forcing players to beta test

Anet isn’t forcing anyone to do anything. If you hate it so much, don’t participate. It’s that simple. You can live without GW2 for a weekend.

Right?

I want to pvp without beta content. I didnt sign up for a beta. I want to play what I payed for, not test unbalanced content.

Its not hard to understand.

Also, “as is your premise”? What? How can I make a strawman argument when I wasnt arguing against someones argument at all? You clearly dont know what strawman even means

The existence of this frivolous, asinine thread is an argument. A very poor one but here it is. Who’s fault is that?

It’s based on a false premise, that you are being forced to do something. You are not. That’s an objective fact. It’s not very hard to understand. You’re just being petty.

It’s one weekend. They need to test these things on live, it’s necessary. You do not have to be a part of it. Resume your normal PvP activities after the beta event.

Is there anything else buttercup? Need to be reminded to breath or anything?

The question is wether or not you are entitled to a game without beta content. To make it short…you are not.

"
You acknowledge that ArenaNet may in its reasonable discretion provide subsequent versions, enhancements, modifications, upgrades or patches related to any part of the Service.

You acknowledge that Service may be interrupted for reasons within or beyond the control of ArenaNet, that ArenaNet cannot and does not guarantee You will be able to use the Game or any Account whenever You wish to do so, that ArenaNet will interrupt the Service on a regular basis for purposes of maintenance or updates and may do so without providing You with notice before such interruption, and that ArenaNet may provide subsequent versions, enhancements, modifications, upgrades or patches related to the Game that You must accept and/or install before You will be able to use the Game.
"

This means that Arenanet may interupt service whenever they want and modify it in any way they want. You agreed to those conditions, so you are not entitled to have a beta-free experience.

CETheLucid.3964:

They need to test these things on live, it’s necessary.

No they do not and no it isn’t.

It is every bit as much an objective fact that they do not need to test these things on live as it is that he is not being forced to play during a beta test.

That said,

OP, it is a few days out of the month. Not really a big deal IMO, and development does likely benefit from the larger test environment.

Ashen.2907:

CETheLucid.3964:

They need to test these things on live, it’s necessary.

No they do not and no it isn’t.

It is every bit as much an objective fact that they do not need to test these things on live as it is that he is not being forced to play during a beta test.

That said,

OP, it is a few days out of the month. Not really a big deal IMO, and development does likely benefit from the larger test environment.

Closed environment != Live environment

Things happen (more variables, etc) on live that do not happen on internal tests and the internal/closed servers. There’s no real substitute for the live environment.

One of the reasons it took them a while to track down several of the challenge mote bugs for S2.

It also serves to allow the players to communicate issues and offer feedback. I thought we wanted more communication, not less?

It is absolutely necessary.

I’m sure if I dig for it I can find at least two posts from the devs that have expressed such sentiments.

But yeah, I’m not committing to that effort. You’ll have to do your own homework if you want confirmation to that end.

If Anet didn’t do this, you’d be beta testing at launch and not calling it a beta test.

It’s BETA WEEKEND. You’ve got better things to do. Go visit your Grandma.

Envy.1679:

Since you cant opt out of playing with beta content like reaper rev, etc. You can no longer queue pvp without running into beta content.

Personally, I absolutely can not stand beta tests. I dont like dealing with balance problems or bugs. I never sign up for beta tests for anything. Why am I unable to choose to participate in this? I want to pvp without the stupid beta stuff.

Allow us to select whether or not we want to play with beta content forgodssake

I fought the new characters in PvP. If you can’t handle them now, then you can’t handle them when the game is live.

In the country where I live, game testers are usually paid for their work. In this game most testers like to do it not by receiving money, but by giving money (prepurchase); and whover does not like it (did not prepurchase) is forced to play with those testers. And if like this was not enough, the testers consider themselves the best when they defeat non-testers in PvP or WvW. It’s just awesome.

My advice for all the players is to do like I do: stop playing during beta weekends! You are spending your time and your resources to provide feedback, while receiving nothing in return, but frustration. During beta weekends I only join the game to receive my daily login reward.

Look at it this way.

Unless you purchase HoT, even if you purchased GW2, you now have to PVP against elite HoT specs to people that did buy it.

So get used to it: Buy HoT, or say goodbye to competitive PVP. Might as well start now.

Yargesh.4965:

Soon they will be ‘forcing’ you to buy the expansion under your logic. Guess you have a busy forum time ahead of you.

For sure. So much fuss about just a weekend with some people playing beta characters in PvP. They are probably no match for experienced players anyway right now. Or did you get annoyed so much after being killed by some random revenant?

To be more specific on topic:

Envy.1679:

Anet forcing players to beta test

First wrong statement as already noted by many people in the topic – no one forcing you to do anything. Your counter-arguments are invalid and you can find why below.

Envy.1679:

Since you cant opt out of playing with beta content like reaper rev, etc. You can no longer queue pvp without running into beta content.

Don’t like running into “beta” characters in PvP – skip PvP for this weekend. I wonder why you didn’t create this topic while previous beta-tests – were away or were holding it in up until now?

Envy.1679:

Personally, I absolutely can not stand beta tests. I dont like dealing with balance problems or bugs.

Be more specific, I didn’t see any bugs even with beta characters in PvP. If you want to reason then provide some valid arguments. So far it was only about you specifically not liking just the idea of beta content partially released onto live servers.

Envy.1679:

I never sign up for beta tests for anything. Why am I unable to choose to participate in this? I want to pvp without the stupid beta stuff.

You HAVE signed the GW2 user agreement when you started playing so please, cut this. Make sure to read it carefully:

10. (a) You acknowledge that ArenaNet may in its reasonable discretion provide subsequent versions, enhancements, modifications, upgrades or patches related to any part of the Service.

If you are not agree with it – I got bad news for you.

Envy.1679:

Allow us to select whether or not we want to play with beta content forgodssake

And you will be left in half-empty OR even completely empty queue and will be whining even more for sure that you cannot get into PvP match for hours. Why? Because there will probably be almost zero people who don’t wanna try matches against beta characters.

So either way this will end up the same – you will not be able to play PvP but for a completely different reason this time – because there is noone to queue with and not because you just don’t want to play with beta characters.

Also I do not understand what you are trying to achieve with this topic – beta test was almost over by the time you have created it and there is just one more beta weekend left. Most probably Anet will not change the way beta is hold (and they shouldn’t really), so this is completely pointless.

@Wiella no idea why you quoted and responded the way you did to my post.

Acrisor.8097:

In the country where I live, game testers are usually paid for their work. In this game most testers like to do it not by receiving money, but by giving money (prepurchase); and whover does not like it (did not prepurchase) is forced to play with those testers. And if like this was not enough, the testers consider themselves the best when they defeat non-testers in PvP or WvW. It’s just awesome.

My advice for all the players is to do like I do: stop playing during beta weekends! You are spending your time and your resources to provide feedback, while receiving nothing in return, but frustration. During beta weekends I only join the game to receive my daily login reward.

There are limits to what you can do with regular testers.
ANet has testers which are paid.

You are NOT A TESTER
You are just someone who is allowed to play beta content and you are, on your own volition, able to provide feedback.

If they open the gates to the public to beta test certain things, it is to get feedback from the people who are concerned with the product.

Wouldn`t you want to know how things are going and give feedback on certain things if you could?
Like someone builds a car for you and midway you come around, sit in it and are able to say: “hey, make the seat a little bit higher, so I don`t have any problems.”

At this point the good things outweigh the bad things.

You know what their payment is? Being able to play and shape the game before others.
People who aren`t part of the beta have the same opportunity this way.

They can give feedback on the new classes etc.

Working together for the future.

Are you so petty that you don`t see the obvious benefit of this whole thing?
Are you so greedy and important that you are not able to go out of your way to see how helpfull this is?

I mean they do you all a service. Everyone can complain about them, before they are officially in the game.
Now you dont have to wait till it is released.

lol Envy if you think it won’t be broken on release too, you are very optimistic.

Envy.1679:

Since you cant opt out of playing with beta content like reaper rev, etc. You can no longer queue pvp without running into beta content.

Personally, I absolutely can not stand beta tests. I dont like dealing with balance problems or bugs. I never sign up for beta tests for anything. Why am I unable to choose to participate in this? I want to pvp without the stupid beta stuff.

Allow us to select whether or not we want to play with beta content forgodssake

Funny and the fact is the live game has the same problems (ie) bugs and balance problems that you don’t like about beta so in the end the two aren’t that much different. No one forcing you to play the beta content or play Strong Hold map.

Jaken.6801:

Acrisor.8097:

In the country where I live, game testers are usually paid for their work. In this game most testers like to do it not by receiving money, but by giving money (prepurchase); and whover does not like it (did not prepurchase) is forced to play with those testers. And if like this was not enough, the testers consider themselves the best when they defeat non-testers in PvP or WvW. It’s just awesome.

My advice for all the players is to do like I do: stop playing during beta weekends! You are spending your time and your resources to provide feedback, while receiving nothing in return, but frustration. During beta weekends I only join the game to receive my daily login reward.

There are limits to what you can do with regular testers.
ANet has testers which are paid.

You are NOT A TESTER
You are just someone who is allowed to play beta content and you are, on your own volition, able to provide feedback.

If they open the gates to the public to beta test certain things, it is to get feedback from the people who are concerned with the product.

Wouldn`t you want to know how things are going and give feedback on certain things if you could?
Like someone builds a car for you and midway you come around, sit in it and are able to say: “hey, make the seat a little bit higher, so I don`t have any problems.”

At this point the good things outweigh the bad things.

You know what their payment is? Being able to play and shape the game before others.
People who aren`t part of the beta have the same opportunity this way.

They can give feedback on the new classes etc.

Working together for the future.

Are you so petty that you don`t see the obvious benefit of this whole thing?
Are you so greedy and important that you are not able to go out of your way to see how helpfull this is?

I mean they do you all a service. Everyone can complain about them, before they are officially in the game.
Now you dont have to wait till it is released.

to everyone saying you have to actually play a beta character to be involved in the beta tester.

You’re just plain wrong.

Envy.1679:

Jaken.6801:

Acrisor.8097:

In the country where I live, game testers are usually paid for their work. In this game most testers like to do it not by receiving money, but by giving money (prepurchase); and whover does not like it (did not prepurchase) is forced to play with those testers. And if like this was not enough, the testers consider themselves the best when they defeat non-testers in PvP or WvW. It’s just awesome.

My advice for all the players is to do like I do: stop playing during beta weekends! You are spending your time and your resources to provide feedback, while receiving nothing in return, but frustration. During beta weekends I only join the game to receive my daily login reward.

There are limits to what you can do with regular testers.
ANet has testers which are paid.

You are NOT A TESTER
You are just someone who is allowed to play beta content and you are, on your own volition, able to provide feedback.

If they open the gates to the public to beta test certain things, it is to get feedback from the people who are concerned with the product.

Wouldn`t you want to know how things are going and give feedback on certain things if you could?
Like someone builds a car for you and midway you come around, sit in it and are able to say: “hey, make the seat a little bit higher, so I don`t have any problems.”

At this point the good things outweigh the bad things.

You know what their payment is? Being able to play and shape the game before others.
People who aren`t part of the beta have the same opportunity this way.

They can give feedback on the new classes etc.

Working together for the future.

Are you so petty that you don`t see the obvious benefit of this whole thing?
Are you so greedy and important that you are not able to go out of your way to see how helpfull this is?

I mean they do you all a service. Everyone can complain about them, before they are officially in the game.
Now you dont have to wait till it is released.

to everyone saying you have to actually play a beta character to be involved in the beta tester.

You’re just plain wrong.

Not sure anyone said that.

OP has a point and ANet will have considered and decided that testing the new Professions on Live servers to outweigh these concerns. Personally, I back ANet on that one too.

It is imperfect (as are any alternatives I can think of) but it will on balance likely yield the best data at much higher rates than any opt-in (or closed) testing would provide. Strategically the gains versus the inconvenience intuitively lie with casting the biggest net now, not post-launch where ANet will be fighting on many fronts to fix the inevitable flood of problems.

I think its a brilliant way of getting test done, since it is testing in live.

You can see how the new specs and build stack up with the current and the developers can adjust accordingly.

Much rather them get this data now.

there are confirmed to be 3 Beta weekend events. Anet happens to let us know when those events will be a week or two in advance. with all due respect, you have the choice to go do something else for those 3 weekends. IT’S YOUR OWN FAULT for choosing to play during the beta weekend events. 9 days out of 365. YOU CHOSE to play during those 9 days, KNOWING about the beta test AHEAD OF TIME. i feel no pity for you. i offer you no bacon as recompense.

disclaimer: this post has been written for entertainment purposes only, and does not offer any legal advice, nor does it present any legal opinions. the poster is not responsible for any actions you may take as a result of you reading this post.

post script: bacon deficiency disorder sux