Guild Wars 2

Personally I think stacking (players all occupying the same spot for various advantages) looks silly and is rather 1-dimensional. At least have situations where it’s better to stack and others where it’s better not to stack.

Similarly, one of the problems in WvW (and to a lesser extent, PvE) is zergs destroying everything.

So ANet have consistently said they can’t increase the AOE limit beyond 5. But there are other creative ways we can adjust AOE to discourage stacking and zergs.

- AOE damage scales according to number of players hit.
ie.
1 player hit = 30% damage (per player)
2 players hit = 70% damage
3 players hit = 100% damage
4 players hit = 150% damage
5 players hit = 200% damage

So if you fire your AOE at a big zerg or a group of stacked players, you’ll be doing double damage to every single player.

This is a big change and will require rebalancing across the game. And also it will require adjustments to monster AI to prevent clumping up and easy exploitation.

But I think ultimately this sort of thing is for the best. The reward vs. risk for stacking and zerging at the moment is too good, and AOE is not doing its normal job of making such tactics more dangerous.

I support the idea, however the balancing may be a bit too extensive in their case (Devs). Then you have some, if not most, of the ‘experienced’ WvW players that will cry their hearts out.

Yeah this is a wonderful idea, it shows how much expertise in this game you have, i’ll add you in game, can you perhaps give me some tips?

I like it.

I also thought of reintroducing Disease as it was in GW1 back into the game. It may, if modified correctly, create some sense of caution when dog piling in a blob.

AoE actually did used to affect way more than 5 people. ANet put in the cap because it made certain classes like Eles far too powerful in places like WvW; a handful of Elementalists defending a structure could wipe out an attacking zerg by themselves. It meant that melee classes were basically second-fiddle to spellcasters, or were forced into very niche roles.

Azhure.1857:

I like it.

I also thought of reintroducing Disease as it was in GW1 back into the game. It may, if modified correctly, create some sense of caution when dog piling in a blob.

This would give necros a larger presence. Which is pretty great in my opinion. Even with all the condi cleanse, it still has to potential to keep spreading. Question is, what would the effect of the disease be? A simple health degeneration isn’t really that threatening like it is in GW1.

Zaxares.5419:

AoE actually did used to affect way more than 5 people. ANet put in the cap because it made certain classes like Eles far too powerful in places like WvW; a handful of Elementalists defending a structure could wipe out an attacking zerg by themselves. It meant that melee classes were basically second-fiddle to spellcasters, or were forced into very niche roles.

Another problem I see is that some weapons (eg. Ele staff) have nothing but AOE attacks. Which would make them completely weak against single opponents yet extremely powerful against groups.

Rather than the new system applying to all AOEs, I guess it’s time for a new category of AOE attacks. Call them Siege attacks or something, which have the AOE-scaling applied. Stuff like Meteor Shower and other large casted AOEs should have this property, along with WvW siege engines, etc.

Either that or give weapons like Ele staff some more single-target attacks.

Siege weapons in WvW already DO affect up to 50 targets. Firing, say, a cannon into a zerg results in a hilarious amount of damage scores popping up.

:D

Rieselle.5079:

snip*
This is a big change and will require rebalancing across the game. And also it will require adjustments to monster AI to prevent clumping up and easy exploitation.

But I think ultimately this sort of thing is for the best. The reward vs. risk for stacking and zerging at the moment is too good, and AOE is not doing its normal job of making such tactics more dangerous.

I like the direction of this idea, and if anything would make WvW more interesting.

The scaling you suggested is a bit weird, why would you only do 30% against a player?

While I think the stacking/AoE concept needs to be worked on, this would break the game completely.

ESPECIALLY in PvP, balancing would be completely thrown out and 2 years of nice progress in PvP balancing would go to waste.

You could always just choose not to run with the zerg. How long until people learn that suggesting changing the game’s core mechanics to suit your personal playstyle is selfish and generally leads to unproductive conversation?

Just give bosses and foes aoe attacks like Malrona in TA.

There is no need for debuffs or damage reductions on stacking.

Up the difficulty of the enemy AI.

Don’t make them all LoS to players stacking up for easy cleave.

Punish them by compounding AoE attacks.

hybrid.5027:

You could always just choose not to run with the zerg. How long until people learn that suggesting changing the game’s core mechanics to suit your personal playstyle is selfish and generally leads to unproductive conversation?

That same excuse is commonly used to fight any suggested change in this game, regardless if the reasoning behind the suggested change is valid or not.

Please do better.

Azhure.1857:

hybrid.5027:

You could always just choose not to run with the zerg. How long until people learn that suggesting changing the game’s core mechanics to suit your personal playstyle is selfish and generally leads to unproductive conversation?

That same excuse is commonly used to fight any suggested change in this game, regardless if the reasoning behind the suggested change is valid or not.

Please do better.

I don’t need to do better when I am 100% correct. The core gameplay mechanic in WvW is using tight formations to defeat the AOE cap. That is what the game is. That is the status quo.

If you wish to change the status quo you not only have to suggest a viable change, but you have to advocate why the new system would be superior to the old system. and not only would it have to be superior, it would have to so far superior that the inevitable percentage of people who dislike any change are satisfied. This is a fairly tall order. The OP did not do this, nor even really try.

Since the burden of proof (explained above) is on the person making the change to status quo, I don’t actually need to “do better” since technically I don’t have to do anything in light of the OP’s failure to meet the minimum threshold needed to justify his wishlisting.

hybrid.5027:

I don’t need to do better when I am 100% correct.

Can you really say that with a straight face?

As far as what the core gameplay is, it’s purpose and its desirability, whether it’s unproductive or selfish to suggest changes hinges on the creators and if what is the status quo is intended and healthy for the continuation of the game.

Further regarding the current state of the game, the status quo can thus change in the future so what might not be unhealthy now might have consequences later, all of which should be taken into consideration by the devs.

And that said, why do you always try to silence discussion? Hell, the OP could very well be wrong in all regards with the basis of his suggestion but he’s never going to find out the truth if people don’t talk. But all that aside, I can’t say I agree with the proposed suggestion because it really doesn’t make all that much logical sense.

Looking at things from a logic standpoint, if 10 people attack one target, some of those attacks would just be drowned out (or plain overkill) so what would happen if a target could only receive damage from the first 4 sources at any given time and all other sources are ignored. I suppose it would still be safety in numbers, but those numbers would not be as efficient as small organized teams.

They just need better skills and have mobs use player skills as well. Remember how in GW1 if you stacked together, mobs would murder you. Maelstrom stopping your casters, Blurred Vision affecting everyone, Spiteful Spirit killing your own teammates etc…

Why not just have Charrzookas or mortars launch a stack in all directions? Otherwise corrosive poison cloud en mass.

So in a me vs 2 mesmers/minionmancer, suddenly my damage scales by 200% and is unbridled by ‘amount of target’ restrictions? Great idea. Staff ele/necro meta incoming…

There is no reason for the aoe cap, damage is fine as is. It was just 2 hard for ANet to grasp the idea of players learning and adjusting their gameplay to counter the ‘issue’.

I would rather die to a player aoe than LOLSIEGE by the way… totally brainless OP damage, yay. Nowadays it’s either siege or attacking a door… when my server wasn’t completely dead and playing WvW was possible, I would pull people off their keep with scorpion wire and they would get rekt while they try to aoe us.

Dude. Spartans used to stack. Do you think you are better than the kittening spartans? I doubt that!

kitten .9460:

There is no reason for the aoe cap, damage is fine as is. It was just 2 hard for ANet to grasp the idea of players learning and adjusting their gameplay to counter the ‘issue’.

I would rather die to a player aoe than LOLSIEGE by the way… totally brainless OP damage, yay. Nowadays it’s either siege or attacking a door… when my server wasn’t completely dead and playing WvW was possible, I would pull people off their keep with scorpion wire and they would get rekt while they try to aoe us.

I don’t understand the AoE cap, at least for damage. I mean in PvE it makes sense because the monster AI is kitten and they don’t understand AoE, dodges, etc. But WvW? Why? Because its asking too much for 60+ players groping each other in a tight blob to scatter when a bomb is thrown at them?

As much as I’d like to change the current zerg meta in WvW, this suggestion is the wrong way to do it.

It is way too inconistent. If damage scales per hit, then classes such as the mesmer, ranger, and minion master necro will be hit with much higher damage, while classes that can only AoE will become useless in 1v1 situations (staff ele). The total cumulative effect of this suggestion is the same as raising the cap from 5 to 10, but instead of hitting more people in a stack, this just punishes the unlucky few who always get hit for some reason.

This would also be an ineffective solution. While this has the equivalent effect of hitting 10 players, WvW zergs regularly run 40 to 50 people. Instead, this more harshly punishes smaller teams of players, while the mindless mega mob still runs mostly unopposed.

Better enemy behavior and AI is always something good to have in the game, as more diverse and randomized enemy encounters leads to a more engaging and entertaining experience. If you’ve got a good way to do that with this game’s engine, please let people know. Likewise, the zerg issue is another big one, since increasing the cap would cause retaliation to run amok, among other things.