Guild Wars 2

Yesterday there was a really, really great article by Lewis Burnell on tentonhammer’s persistant world column that highlighted what an awful state of communication there was between Profession developers and the profession forums in GW2.

It was taken down today. You can read the google cached version of it here.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5UE_TlnfUfcJ:www.tentonhammer.com/columns/persistent-worlds/persistent-worlds-where-profession-developer-engagement+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

Does anyone happen to know, have a source who knows, or would be willing to comment on, the circumstances surrounding the article’s removal?

Did Anet say “no more press invites for TTH if you are going to be brutality honest in your opinion pieces” or did TTH say “we don’t want to get dis-invited to press events so we should reign in the honesty of our employees”?

Not sure who to wag a finger at here, but which ever side made that call, taking down that article was a real disservice to the community. When companies do fantastic things, they get praised, as GW2 often is at TTH. When companies have a lot of room for improvement, as Anet’s forum communication sure does, well, there should be an outlet for calling them out on it.

it is likely Anet threatened lawsuit if they didn’t remove for slander, but either option is possible and viable. Who Knows…. either way it makes them look bad….

Wow... that article is perfection in a nutshell

CorrynnStarr.7942:

it is likely Anet threatened lawsuit if they didn’t remove for slander, but either option is possible and viable. Who Knows…. either way it makes them look bad….

And its well deserved. The ball has been majorly dropped by ANet and I’m glad someone had the balls to step up and call them on it. TTH gets a high five and a round of applause from me.

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

Sounds like a PR thing then, but from who?

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Yes, my bias is showing. Mine may not be the only one though, with your use of “Shoddy” and quotes around the word “journalism.”

The article is (was?) an opinion column, and it is reasonable to suppose the author was being honest from his perspective.

Raven.9603:

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Yes, my bias is showing. Mine may not be the only one though, with your use of “Shoddy” and quotes around the word “journalism.”

The article is (was?) an opinion column, and it is reasonable to suppose the author was being honest from his perspective.

I presented and acknowledged the possibility that the article’s removal was in response to action on Anet’s part. You present only options involving an effort to suppress honesty.

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

Would you be kind enough to post a link to where that discussion took place? I don’t see it covered in their own forums.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3kf7bh/the_tth_article_on_profession_developer/

I think the article was both good and bad. On the one hand the author was right in that the communication between devs and players in some areas is poor but to write a balanced article the author totally missed the fact that the devs do a good job responding in some areas like story not to mention Gaile Gray does an excellent job on the forums.

Been playing online games for many a year now and even though ANet is not perfect they are much better than any of my previous games in my experience. I also love the fact that we actually see them in the game from time to time as well. Or the fact that they join WvW guilds during tournaments.

So I feel there is an element of truth in this article but it was poorly constructed imho. A better article would’ve pointed out the bad and good and if they had the word space to compare and contrast with other online gaming companies as well.

Raven.9603:

that highlighted what an awful state of communication there was between Profession developers and the profession forums in GW2.

To be fair, the profession forum section is the worst possible place to go for feedback.There are 1-2 great guys there, but 99% are delusional people who know nothing about the game.

Communication and pace of balance patches should be improved tho.

I can’t see any ANet would care if this article remained online or not.

In my opinion, it’s a typical op-ed for the industry (and for a lot of news organizations, too, for that matter):

• It starts by asserting one or more opinions as fact.
• It creates a theory to explain that “fact”
• It cherry picks examples to support that theory, getting some of them factually wrong (thus not even doing a good job of supporting the author’s message).

In the end, even though I agree with some of the author’s ideas, I found myself completely disagreeing with their overall position, because the rhetoric turned me away.

ANet has shown in the past that they have thick-enough skin that I can’t imagine this op-ed slowing them down at all.

tl;dr My speculative conclusion is that the article’s editor had other reasons for taking the article down, that had nothing directly to do with ANet.

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Nope.

I have read it. It was well written, language used was appropriate etc. It also was based on prolonged facts, rather then assumptions making it more of an actual report piece vs. a commentary.

Even if it was a commentary, does A-Net have the right to force a well written one to be taken down ?

There is currently actually a lawsuit in progress in one of the high courts in our system dealing with gaming industry and their respective PR misrepresenting facts about their products as well as not disclosing paid for advertising practices. This lawsuit is pretty much an open and shut case and a forgone conclusion just naturally being stalled by gaming industry lawyers via appeals.

Once the verdict is reached it will have very wide effects on this type of behavior from the big gaming businesses as precedent will be set. There will be no more taking down such articles or at least, the entity forcing such a takedown will be held accountable for it and will have to pay appropriate damages, possibly make public apology statements etc. making it even worse for themselves in the long run.

Also, lets face it, this is the “interwebs” and I’m sure there are already archived copies of the article in question including on many public torrent sites far beyond reach of A-net for anyone to find.

Thread delete in 3 2 1 …

Tongku.5326:

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Nope.

I have read it. It was well written, language used was appropriate etc. It also was based on prolonged facts, rather then assumptions making it more of an actual report piece vs. a commentary.

Even if it was a commentary, does A-Net have the right to force a well written one to be taken down ?

There is currently actually a lawsuit in progress in one of the high courts in our system dealing with gaming industry and their respective PR misrepresenting facts about their products as well as not disclosing paid for advertising practices. This lawsuit is pretty much an open and shut case and a forgone conclusion just naturally being stalled by gaming industry lawyers via appeals.

Once the verdict is reached it will have very wide effects on this type of behavior from the big gaming businesses as precedent will be set. There will be no more taking down such articles or at least, the entity forcing such a takedown will be held accountable for it and will have to pay appropriate damages, possibly make public apology statements etc. making it even worse for themselves in the long run.

Also, lets face it, this is the “interwebs” and I’m sure there are already archived copies of the article in question including on many public torrent sites far beyond reach of A-net for anyone to find.

I’m curious, which country is this legal case taking place in?

Bandit.8279:

I think the article was both good and bad. On the one hand the author was right in that the communication between devs and players in some areas is poor but to write a balanced article the author totally missed the fact that the devs do a good job responding in some areas like story not to mention Gaile Gray does an excellent job on the forums.

Been playing online games for many a year now and even though ANet is not perfect they are much better than any of my previous games in my experience. I also love the fact that we actually see them in the game from time to time as well. Or the fact that they join WvW guilds during tournaments.

So I feel there is an element of truth in this article but it was poorly constructed imho. A better article would’ve pointed out the bad and good and if they had the word space to compare and contrast with other online gaming companies as well.

I have yet to see a good side to their communication, such as it is. We can’t even get an answer out of them on why karma boosters were stripped out of the multiboosters we own, with no warning. That issue, along with many others, is still being ignored as far as I know.

Plenty of responses to fluff posts though.

Kravick.4906:

Tongku.5326:

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Nope.

I have read it. It was well written, language used was appropriate etc. It also was based on prolonged facts, rather then assumptions making it more of an actual report piece vs. a commentary.

Even if it was a commentary, does A-Net have the right to force a well written one to be taken down ?

There is currently actually a lawsuit in progress in one of the high courts in our system dealing with gaming industry and their respective PR misrepresenting facts about their products as well as not disclosing paid for advertising practices. This lawsuit is pretty much an open and shut case and a forgone conclusion just naturally being stalled by gaming industry lawyers via appeals.

Once the verdict is reached it will have very wide effects on this type of behavior from the big gaming businesses as precedent will be set. There will be no more taking down such articles or at least, the entity forcing such a takedown will be held accountable for it and will have to pay appropriate damages, possibly make public apology statements etc. making it even worse for themselves in the long run.

Also, lets face it, this is the “interwebs” and I’m sure there are already archived copies of the article in question including on many public torrent sites far beyond reach of A-net for anyone to find.

I’m curious, which country is this legal case taking place in?

This.

I am also curious as to what exactly is a, “prolonged fact.”

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Author posted today so he wasn’t fired.

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

His bias is showing while you put quotes around “journalism” and call it shoddy?

Wow, that’s a real face palm if I’ve ever seen one.

I don’t really understand how that Reddit post doesn’t have more upvotes. How is this not something we’re talking about, or at least aware of, as a fanbase?

CorrynnStarr.7942:

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Or maybe his editor thought it was a shoddy article and had it taken down and the original writer doesn’t want to talk about it because he is embarrassed or furious at his editor.

Many people, even the ones who agree with him on the general idea, felt the article was shoddy in many ways, and his editor could very well be someone who believes as such as well.

Pockets.3201:

Bandit.8279:

I think the article was both good and bad. On the one hand the author was right in that the communication between devs and players in some areas is poor but to write a balanced article the author totally missed the fact that the devs do a good job responding in some areas like story not to mention Gaile Gray does an excellent job on the forums.

Been playing online games for many a year now and even though ANet is not perfect they are much better than any of my previous games in my experience. I also love the fact that we actually see them in the game from time to time as well. Or the fact that they join WvW guilds during tournaments.

So I feel there is an element of truth in this article but it was poorly constructed imho. A better article would’ve pointed out the bad and good and if they had the word space to compare and contrast with other online gaming companies as well.

I have yet to see a good side to their communication, such as it is. We can’t even get an answer out of them on why karma boosters were stripped out of the multiboosters we own, with no warning. That issue, along with many others, is still being ignored as far as I know.

Plenty of responses to fluff posts though.

The worst thing a gaming company can do is to give a fix or reason why on something and later change their minds on it. Almost everything is always in iteration until it gets the seal of approval. At which point we are then informed. It is always better to say nothing than to say something your going to later regret.

The article was also pretty biased and sounded like a writer who got denied the chance at regular interaction with ANet and decided to take his frustrations out with this article. Oh wait…

eisberg.2379:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Or maybe his editor thought it was a shoddy article and had it taken down and the original writer doesn’t want to talk about it because he is embarrassed or furious at his editor.

Many people, even the ones who agree with him on the general idea, felt the article was shoddy in many ways, and his editor could very well be someone who believes as such as well.

And it’s also possible he posted it before getting his editor’s approval. Maybe because it wasn’t clearly stated as his opinion piece.

His reddit responses seem to indicate he got read the riot act and can only say his editor took it down.

Behellagh.1468:

eisberg.2379:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Or maybe his editor thought it was a shoddy article and had it taken down and the original writer doesn’t want to talk about it because he is embarrassed or furious at his editor.

Many people, even the ones who agree with him on the general idea, felt the article was shoddy in many ways, and his editor could very well be someone who believes as such as well.

And it’s also possible he posted it before getting his editor’s approval. Maybe because it wasn’t clearly stated as his opinion piece.

His reddit responses seem to indicate he got read the riot act and can only say his editor took it down.

Wow. You are naive.

TTH get lots of access and exclusives, then one of thier writers posts a critical opinion piece, and it gets pulled. Hmmm.

It’s not hard to connect the dots. I’ll be interested if any other sites cover this. I bet they don’t.

MashMash.1645:

Behellagh.1468:

eisberg.2379:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Or maybe his editor thought it was a shoddy article and had it taken down and the original writer doesn’t want to talk about it because he is embarrassed or furious at his editor.

Many people, even the ones who agree with him on the general idea, felt the article was shoddy in many ways, and his editor could very well be someone who believes as such as well.

And it’s also possible he posted it before getting his editor’s approval. Maybe because it wasn’t clearly stated as his opinion piece.

His reddit responses seem to indicate he got read the riot act and can only say his editor took it down.

Wow. You are naive.

TTH get lots of access and exclusives, then one of thier writers posts a critical opinion piece, and it gets pulled. Hmmm.

It’s not hard to connect the dots. I’ll be interested if any other sites cover this. I bet they don’t.

Since when has any site ever posted anything negative about GW2? The worst I can remember are a few rather bemused, but cautiously optimistic, op-eds.

Stuff like the currently borked to kitten Mordrem event won’t even get a blip while the same sites will rip apart games for similar bugs.

Anyone who’s spent enough time in either industry will tell you this isn’t rare, though what isn’t said can often speak much louder than what is…

MashMash.1645:

Behellagh.1468:

eisberg.2379:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Or maybe his editor thought it was a shoddy article and had it taken down and the original writer doesn’t want to talk about it because he is embarrassed or furious at his editor.

Many people, even the ones who agree with him on the general idea, felt the article was shoddy in many ways, and his editor could very well be someone who believes as such as well.

And it’s also possible he posted it before getting his editor’s approval. Maybe because it wasn’t clearly stated as his opinion piece.

His reddit responses seem to indicate he got read the riot act and can only say his editor took it down.

Wow. You are naive.

TTH get lots of access and exclusives, then one of thier writers posts a critical opinion piece, and it gets pulled. Hmmm.

It’s not hard to connect the dots. I’ll be interested if any other sites cover this. I bet they don’t.

And you don’t seem to understand that editors run things at any publication.

Normally the editorial staff and business operations have a Chinese wall between them and if the editor had supported the writer and was told by the suits to pull it there would be a lot more noise about this on other game news sites that do have a wall in place.

MashMash.1645:

Behellagh.1468:

eisberg.2379:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Or maybe his editor thought it was a shoddy article and had it taken down and the original writer doesn’t want to talk about it because he is embarrassed or furious at his editor.

Many people, even the ones who agree with him on the general idea, felt the article was shoddy in many ways, and his editor could very well be someone who believes as such as well.

And it’s also possible he posted it before getting his editor’s approval. Maybe because it wasn’t clearly stated as his opinion piece.

His reddit responses seem to indicate he got read the riot act and can only say his editor took it down.

Wow. You are naive.

TTH get lots of access and exclusives, then one of thier writers posts a critical opinion piece, and it gets pulled. Hmmm.

It’s not hard to connect the dots. I’ll be interested if any other sites cover this. I bet they don’t.

Not Naive, more like smart enough to not jump to conclusions with absolutely no proof. I simply gave another possibility out of many that could be an answer. The point is, we have no idea what happened, and to automatically assume it was taken down because Arenanet said so isn’t being very smart and really just shows your own confirmation bias.

mercury ranique.2170:

I also disagree with the lack of interaction. The problem is that a dev should stand for their choices. Going into the ranger forum and defending certain choices is recipe for dissaster. half of the complaints bout a class are not even justified cause they are based on people wanting to be invincable. So they have to be carefull in really interacting. But they do listen. They do share proposed changes and they do adept things based on that feedback. Just that it is not to everybody’s liking is a fact of life.

No, no in every way, shape, and form for all time and eternity. No.

I’m a second generation artist and designer. And if there’s one thing I’v learned from yearning and training to be an artist since I was in diapers, it’s that no one is perfect, everyone is improving. Everyone does bad work no matter their skill level. In fact I would even say most work is bad regardless of skill level, that’s why you’ll see 10 sketchbooks full of horrible unappealing test comps and sketches and cartoons for every single good piece of work that an artist puts out.

But all that failure doesn’t make anyone a bad artist, not overall or even for the moment. It’s as necessary a part of the process as the complete and finalized work.

What DOES make one a bad artist, or hardly even an artist at all, is when one refutes all critique on their work citing that their audience ‘just doesn’t understand’ as ANet does with SO MANY things concerning GW2’s design.

And even if that’s true, that the audience is missing something, it’s still your fault, the artists’ fault, your work should speak for itself, its should justify your decisions. But there are so many decisions concerning GW2s designs that aren’t justified within the game experience, and so many more that may be justified but aren’t made clear in the game experience, causing people to rightly question ANet and then feel indignant towards the silence they get as a response.

Conncept.7638:

mercury ranique.2170:

I also disagree with the lack of interaction. The problem is that a dev should stand for their choices. Going into the ranger forum and defending certain choices is recipe for dissaster. half of the complaints bout a class are not even justified cause they are based on people wanting to be invincable. So they have to be carefull in really interacting. But they do listen. They do share proposed changes and they do adept things based on that feedback. Just that it is not to everybody’s liking is a fact of life.

No, no in ever way, shape, and form for all time and eternity. No.

I’m a second generation artist and designer. And if there’s one thing I’v learned from yearning and training to be an artist since I was in diapers, it’s that no one is perfect, everyone is improving. Everyone does bad work no matter their skill level. In fact I would even most work is bad regardless of skill level, that’s why you’ll see 10 sketchbooks full of horrible unappealing test comps and sketches and cartoons for every single good piece of work that an artist puts out.

But all that failure doesn’t make anyone a bad artist, not overall or even for the moment. It’s as necessary a part of the process as the complete and finalized work.

What DOES make one a bad artist, or hardly even an artist at all, is when one refutes all critique on their work citing that their audience ‘just doesn’t understand’ as ANet does with SO MANY things concerning GW2’s design.

So very well said IMO.

I dont understand why they’re barely communicating with us or responding to suggestions ( THEY EVEN REMOVED THE SUGGESTIONS SECTION FOR kittenSAKE ).Look at Se where the main dev of FF online even communicates with people on how to improve the game.Our players that have been providing tips and suggestions on how to improve pvp/Wvw are being ingored for 3 years all because anet thinks they know best,and now they’re going F2P,well done !

Caedmon.6798:

I dont understand why they’re barely communicating with us or responding to suggestions.Look at Se where the main dev of FF online even communicates with people on how to improve the game.Our players that have been providing tips and suggestions on how to improve pvp/Wvw are being ingored for 3 years all because you think you know best,and now youre going F2P,well done !

They do know best. Why? Cause they can see all kinds of data of what is going on, something that you and anybody else cannot see. If you can see what they do, then you might be singing a different song to. They can test things out on their side if they feel a suggestion might have some warrant to it.

eisberg.2379:

Caedmon.6798:

I dont understand why they’re barely communicating with us or responding to suggestions.Look at Se where the main dev of FF online even communicates with people on how to improve the game.Our players that have been providing tips and suggestions on how to improve pvp/Wvw are being ingored for 3 years all because you think you know best,and now youre going F2P,well done !

They do know best. Why? Cause they can see all kinds of data of what is going on, something that you and anybody else cannot see. If you can see what they do, then you might be singing a different song to. They can test things out on their side if they feel a suggestion might have some warrant to it.

I’ve been seeing loads of suggestions in the past that could greatly improve this game but all got ignored.The time that they removed the suggestions section in the forum said enough for me,them going f2p now isn;t a good thing really.The strongest foundation of an MMo is communicating with your players ( The people that spend money on your gemstore,the people that play every day,the people that spend time to even post these suggestions ) on how to improve the game,going your own way and ignoring suggestions and actually going against will only backfire.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

it is likely Anet threatened lawsuit if they didn’t remove for slander, but either option is possible and viable. Who Knows…. either way it makes them look bad….

It is not slander if the statements are truthful.

Libel is written, slander is spoken.

I like that someone on TTH attempted to bring attention to this issue, even if it was pulled. I get the fact that the devs can’t chime in during EVERY suggestion thread, but there have just been so many issues that haven’t been fixed, acknowledged, or mentioned by the devs over the last three years despite the various professional communities constantly highlighting the things that need to be fixed. Balance patches come out too infrequently and aren’t publicly tested before they’re live.

In general, the HoT speciailizations have seen an increase in the willingness of devs to discuss their plans of each specialization and iterate based on community feedback, but it simply isn’t enough. There have been hundreds of beta feedback threads started from the last weekends beta, but as far as I know, no devs have actually chimed in with anything other then a token non-specific comment about how things may be changed. Right after a beta weekend, devs should be actively discussing with the community, bouncing off ideas, saying why things can’t work, shouldn’t be done, or what can be done. Instead the sit on the sidelines relatively silent and let the profession community fight among themselves and take notes of ideas they like. The problem with that is that there is zero visibility and the community just feels more or less abandoned…

Behellagh.1468:

Libel is written, slander is spoken.

semantics so what

eisberg.2379:

Caedmon.6798:

I dont understand why they’re barely communicating with us or responding to suggestions.Look at Se where the main dev of FF online even communicates with people on how to improve the game.Our players that have been providing tips and suggestions on how to improve pvp/Wvw are being ingored for 3 years all because you think you know best,and now youre going F2P,well done !

They do know best. Why? Cause they can see all kinds of data of what is going on, something that you and anybody else cannot see. If you can see what they do, then you might be singing a different song to. They can test things out on their side if they feel a suggestion might have some warrant to it.

So their data is telling them that the decreasing WvW community is a good thing for the mode? That people actually enjoy the pirate ship meta? That people enjoy folks being able to build unkillable siege in the citadel on the borderlands?

Do you even think about these things or is it more of an automated reflex?

JediYoda.1275:

Behellagh.1468:

Libel is written, slander is spoken.

semantics so what

Bandit.8279:

Pockets.3201:

Bandit.8279:

I think the article was both good and bad. On the one hand the author was right in that the communication between devs and players in some areas is poor but to write a balanced article the author totally missed the fact that the devs do a good job responding in some areas like story not to mention Gaile Gray does an excellent job on the forums.

Been playing online games for many a year now and even though ANet is not perfect they are much better than any of my previous games in my experience. I also love the fact that we actually see them in the game from time to time as well. Or the fact that they join WvW guilds during tournaments.

So I feel there is an element of truth in this article but it was poorly constructed imho. A better article would’ve pointed out the bad and good and if they had the word space to compare and contrast with other online gaming companies as well.

I have yet to see a good side to their communication, such as it is. We can’t even get an answer out of them on why karma boosters were stripped out of the multiboosters we own, with no warning. That issue, along with many others, is still being ignored as far as I know.

Plenty of responses to fluff posts though.

The worst thing a gaming company can do is to give a fix or reason why on something and later change their minds on it. Almost everything is always in iteration until it gets the seal of approval. At which point we are then informed. It is always better to say nothing than to say something your going to later regret.

The article was also pretty biased and sounded like a writer who got denied the chance at regular interaction with ANet and decided to take his frustrations out with this article. Oh wait…

When you take something away from your players you better have a kitten good reason for doing it to give to them. If they weren’t sure they were going to keep it that way they shouldn’t have made the change until they were.

Kravick.4906:

Tongku.5326:

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Nope.

I have read it. It was well written, language used was appropriate etc. It also was based on prolonged facts, rather then assumptions making it more of an actual report piece vs. a commentary.

Even if it was a commentary, does A-Net have the right to force a well written one to be taken down ?

There is currently actually a lawsuit in progress in one of the high courts in our system dealing with gaming industry and their respective PR misrepresenting facts about their products as well as not disclosing paid for advertising practices. This lawsuit is pretty much an open and shut case and a forgone conclusion just naturally being stalled by gaming industry lawyers via appeals.

Once the verdict is reached it will have very wide effects on this type of behavior from the big gaming businesses as precedent will be set. There will be no more taking down such articles or at least, the entity forcing such a takedown will be held accountable for it and will have to pay appropriate damages, possibly make public apology statements etc. making it even worse for themselves in the long run.

Also, lets face it, this is the “interwebs” and I’m sure there are already archived copies of the article in question including on many public torrent sites far beyond reach of A-net for anyone to find.

I’m curious, which country is this legal case taking place in?

He is probably talking about deal between Microsoft and Machinima (youtube network). Microsoft paid Machinima to say nice things about Xbox One and Machinima “forgot” to disclose that which is kinda against the law. There was a little kittenstorm back in 2014 but no one cared. And now FCC decided to dig in to that and turns out this is happening all over the place.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Kravick.4906:

Tongku.5326:

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Nope.

I have read it. It was well written, language used was appropriate etc. It also was based on prolonged facts, rather then assumptions making it more of an actual report piece vs. a commentary.

Even if it was a commentary, does A-Net have the right to force a well written one to be taken down ?

There is currently actually a lawsuit in progress in one of the high courts in our system dealing with gaming industry and their respective PR misrepresenting facts about their products as well as not disclosing paid for advertising practices. This lawsuit is pretty much an open and shut case and a forgone conclusion just naturally being stalled by gaming industry lawyers via appeals.

Once the verdict is reached it will have very wide effects on this type of behavior from the big gaming businesses as precedent will be set. There will be no more taking down such articles or at least, the entity forcing such a takedown will be held accountable for it and will have to pay appropriate damages, possibly make public apology statements etc. making it even worse for themselves in the long run.

Also, lets face it, this is the “interwebs” and I’m sure there are already archived copies of the article in question including on many public torrent sites far beyond reach of A-net for anyone to find.

I’m curious, which country is this legal case taking place in?

He is probably talking about deal between Microsoft and Machinima (youtube network). Microsoft paid Machinima to say nice things about Xbox One and Machinima “forgot” to disclose that which is kinda against the law. There was a little kittenstorm back in 2014 but no one cared. And now FCC decided to dig in to that and turns out this is happening all over the place.

The thing is that there’s nothing illegal about threatening an information embargo if the other party doesn’t play ball.

Tons of companies do it and you can talk to anyone who’s ever been part of a game review that was required to hold off on publishing until the day of release what the likely outcome is of not playing along.

Everyone is just super secretive about it because it looks shady as hell and begs all kinds of questions.

I’d imagine that after the giant IGN kerfuffle, Anet has little patience for game journalists/bloggers when it comes to Hot or GW2 at all.

Substance E.4852:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Kravick.4906:

Tongku.5326:

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Nope.

I have read it. It was well written, language used was appropriate etc. It also was based on prolonged facts, rather then assumptions making it more of an actual report piece vs. a commentary.

Even if it was a commentary, does A-Net have the right to force a well written one to be taken down ?

There is currently actually a lawsuit in progress in one of the high courts in our system dealing with gaming industry and their respective PR misrepresenting facts about their products as well as not disclosing paid for advertising practices. This lawsuit is pretty much an open and shut case and a forgone conclusion just naturally being stalled by gaming industry lawyers via appeals.

Once the verdict is reached it will have very wide effects on this type of behavior from the big gaming businesses as precedent will be set. There will be no more taking down such articles or at least, the entity forcing such a takedown will be held accountable for it and will have to pay appropriate damages, possibly make public apology statements etc. making it even worse for themselves in the long run.

Also, lets face it, this is the “interwebs” and I’m sure there are already archived copies of the article in question including on many public torrent sites far beyond reach of A-net for anyone to find.

I’m curious, which country is this legal case taking place in?

He is probably talking about deal between Microsoft and Machinima (youtube network). Microsoft paid Machinima to say nice things about Xbox One and Machinima “forgot” to disclose that which is kinda against the law. There was a little kittenstorm back in 2014 but no one cared. And now FCC decided to dig in to that and turns out this is happening all over the place.

The thing is that there’s nothing illegal about threatening an information embargo if the other party doesn’t play ball.

Tons of companies do it and you can talk to anyone who’s ever been part of a game review that was required to hold off on publishing until the day of release what the likely outcome is of not playing along.

Everyone is just super secretive about it because it looks shady as hell and begs all kinds of questions.

I’d imagine that after the giant IGN kerfuffle, Anet has little patience for game journalists/bloggers when it comes to Hot or GW2 at all.

What is the IGN kerfuffle?

eisberg.2379:

Substance E.4852:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Kravick.4906:

Tongku.5326:

Ashen.2907:

Your bias is showing. Both of your presented options state that the article was taken down to restrain honesty.

What about the possibility that the article was not, “really, really,” good? Perhaps it was taken down for being poorly written?

Who knows, perhaps it was taken down in response to an ANet request, but the article earned removal on its own merits (or lack of same). Being critical is not only appropriate but needed. Shoddy, “journalism,” however, doesn’t contribute to finding solutions to real problems.

Nope.

I have read it. It was well written, language used was appropriate etc. It also was based on prolonged facts, rather then assumptions making it more of an actual report piece vs. a commentary.

Even if it was a commentary, does A-Net have the right to force a well written one to be taken down ?

There is currently actually a lawsuit in progress in one of the high courts in our system dealing with gaming industry and their respective PR misrepresenting facts about their products as well as not disclosing paid for advertising practices. This lawsuit is pretty much an open and shut case and a forgone conclusion just naturally being stalled by gaming industry lawyers via appeals.

Once the verdict is reached it will have very wide effects on this type of behavior from the big gaming businesses as precedent will be set. There will be no more taking down such articles or at least, the entity forcing such a takedown will be held accountable for it and will have to pay appropriate damages, possibly make public apology statements etc. making it even worse for themselves in the long run.

Also, lets face it, this is the “interwebs” and I’m sure there are already archived copies of the article in question including on many public torrent sites far beyond reach of A-net for anyone to find.

I’m curious, which country is this legal case taking place in?

He is probably talking about deal between Microsoft and Machinima (youtube network). Microsoft paid Machinima to say nice things about Xbox One and Machinima “forgot” to disclose that which is kinda against the law. There was a little kittenstorm back in 2014 but no one cared. And now FCC decided to dig in to that and turns out this is happening all over the place.

The thing is that there’s nothing illegal about threatening an information embargo if the other party doesn’t play ball.

Tons of companies do it and you can talk to anyone who’s ever been part of a game review that was required to hold off on publishing until the day of release what the likely outcome is of not playing along.

Everyone is just super secretive about it because it looks shady as hell and begs all kinds of questions.

I’d imagine that after the giant IGN kerfuffle, Anet has little patience for game journalists/bloggers when it comes to Hot or GW2 at all.

What is the IGN kerfuffle?

IGN spilled the beans on Raids ~2 days before PAX.

http://dulfy.net/2015/08/27/gw2-getting-raids-with-core-game-being-free/

It wasn’t a lot of info by any means but it essentially robed Anet of the big reveal.
No idea what resulted from it but I can guarantee many a choice words were exchanged. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone lost their job either.

IGN pulled an IGN and released 2/3 key topics of recent anet event at PAX few days before the event.

eisberg.2379:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Or maybe his editor thought it was a shoddy article and had it taken down and the original writer doesn’t want to talk about it because he is embarrassed or furious at his editor.

Many people, even the ones who agree with him on the general idea, felt the article was shoddy in many ways, and his editor could very well be someone who believes as such as well.

So what you’re saying is…that his editor let him post the article before bothering to…edit the article?

Sounds like the editor is the one that should feel ashamed.

Or he posted without approval. Or he thought he had approval. Or was told to get some comments from ANet and didn’t. Who knows. Article went live, editor took it down. That’s all we know.

Gene Archer.8560:

eisberg.2379:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

lordkrall.7241:

Seeing as the people working for the site refuses to actually tell people what happened, I would say we most likely don’t have the full story. Even when outright asked if they where forced to take it down they simply spun it around and refused to answer.

that gives you your answer right there… if they cannot be open and say what happened, then it is likely Anet forced them to remove it.

on second thought it could be the employee was fired for posting something he was directed not to….

Or maybe his editor thought it was a shoddy article and had it taken down and the original writer doesn’t want to talk about it because he is embarrassed or furious at his editor.

Many people, even the ones who agree with him on the general idea, felt the article was shoddy in many ways, and his editor could very well be someone who believes as such as well.

So what you’re saying is…that his editor let him post the article before bothering to…edit the article?

Sounds like the editor is the one that should feel ashamed.

Actually is wasn’t an article, it was a blog. Blog most likely do not have to go through the editor first.