Guild Wars 2

Lahmia.2193:

inb4 Epidemic gets the same nerf as Signet of Inspiration (Fixed condi durations).

This would make me laugh.

Why are people crying at druid nerf? Why are you allowed to heal for lots but are also able to ware either berserker or viper gear at the same time. I can’t think of any other class that can get away with having strong healing AND high dmg out put. Reminds me of gw1 a smiters boon.

Esquilax.3491:

Wow glad I don’t own a Druid that I enjoy playing who has a full set of ascended gear qithout healing power stat.

Patch drops > forced to reroll all gear just to stay effective? That might hurt.

Still owna basic zerker ranger. Only use it for fractals anywayz, giving GotL via glyphs. and spotter, for max dmg, 1 spirit…

I also own a trapper ranger, whcih will not be healing until tyhere is a usefull healing stat combo anyways for condiution builds a at this time all combo’s are LOLz in regard to healing AND condition dmg. p[[robably as they would wreck PvP and WvW
condi and healer with some expertise and precision? Could like that.

Minstrel.7615:

Another completely unnecessary nerf. Does anyone at Anet actually play hardcore Druid? Every nerf has been a kneejerk reaction from PvP without any thought to how it affects PvE or the content it was designed for: Raids. I’ve advocated over and over again that Anet needs to stop with trying to balance between three incredibly different game modes. It cannot be done, and let’s face it, you only care about eSports revenue anyway.

Nerfing baseline healing values is obviously going to make all off-heal builds become nonviable, namely Viper’s. Where is the build diversity here? Forcing people to run Magi’s gear to be an effective healer is shoehorning Druid into a Raid-only spec. I don’t think I need to go into details why this is a terrible design and direction.

If you are trying to cull the power creep HoT created (which was clearly going to happen from the get-go), then it needs to be across the board. Ranger has had huge problems that needed to be addressed for 3 years before it was “reinvented” into Druid. If you want to make vanilla classes viable again, Ranger was certainly the worst class the start with, since it flat out needs a rework to be viable in today’s meta. Not only does it have poor DPS options, pets are a function the majority of Ranger mains want to become optional or outright gone. The couple of buffs Ranger are forced to build are not enough to carve out any sort of definitive role, which is why the “Healer” band-aid worked at all.

We as a community need some justification and reasoning for drastic changes like this. The company’s transparency became a hard wall of PR when MO took over, and the players have definitely noticed. New management has finally started to deliver, but the relationship and trust still hasn’t been rebuilt almost a full year later.

morrolan.9608:

fishball.7204:

morrolan.9608:

That doesn’t apply in this case since boon sharing is a problem in both WvW and PvE raids. In raids it is only an issue for speed running since you can easily finish all raids without the OTT boon sharing.

Boon sharing has never been a PvE/Raid problem, don’t talk about things you have no idea about.

Raids will still finish at the same speed now it just kills diversity since we’ll take 2 chronos instead of 1 and remove all classes that don’t benefit from alacrity (RIP thief, hammer DH, rev etc).

Will you be able to finish them with 1 after the nerf?

Well, a group of people capable of doing so is definitely going to decrease.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Why are people crying at druid nerf? Why are you allowed to heal for lots but are also able to ware either berserker or viper gear at the same time. I can’t think of any other class that can get away with having strong healing AND high dmg out put.

The druid healing builds with zerker armor are neither strong healing (both tempest and Vent rev are better), nor high dps (ranger dps is not top level even at its best, and healling builds sacrifice a lot of that dps due to different trait choices).

While i agree with most thing you said here, i still have to point out some things.
Playtests have actually shown, that base ranger condi dps (Skirmish, Survival, Beastmaster) does very significant damage. Condi ranger in vipers gear can put out up to a maximum dps of around 30-34k dmg, according to test from qT. This brings it on par with power thief, dragonhunter and even staff/fa-staff ele (with the ele not having perma swiftness/alacrity). Damage classes in PvE are actually pretty balanced. The problem comes with chronomancers and rev´s inflating the numbers for certain classes, that scale better with their buffs. Sadly people in PUG´s plainly refuse viable builds very often, ignoring the effectiveness they could add to the raid.

To the point with druids: Condi ranger still has very good dps, so i wont really worry about mine. The real problem is, there is no real reason for any commander to take a non-druid ranger in favor of just another necro. Bouncing epidemics in itself is pretty cool and was propably considered to be a tool to support other condi-classes in a larger squad. Sadly epidemic synergises way too good with itself, basically denying condi ranger and engi any raid spot (engi even having very VERY good utility for raiding content).
The dps difference between viper ranger and viper druid is pretty significant, going so far as dropping from the top 4 theoretical dps-classes in pve to one of the lowest. If i am really willing to sacrifice so much dmg in favor of getting healing and buffing utility, just so i even can get a chance to play in a raid, it needs to be reasonably powerfull enough. It´s really going to depend on how far Anet is going to push the base nerfs vs scaling buffs.

Lastly, i am OK with Anet wanting chronos and rev´s to actually use the proper gear to amplify their boon outputs, at least from a balance perspective. If they do so however, they need to buff the base profession enough to make up for the loss of some dps in gear or even allowing for viable dps specs outside chrono and legendary buff-bot.
If they want to really adress the problems they cause in WvW, they maybe should limit the number of targets they can apply these buffs to, nerf it enough that it´s not a problem in PvP and buff other classes to make up some of these losses for themselves on their own. Although i agree that a split between modes is propably the best and long overdue solution.

Sorry for the wall of text ;^)

I’ve said always the same in every balance update. But even more now, split the balance there is no way you can have your game modes balanced if your are not splitting.

Watch how gw1 was balancing with pvp and pve aspects.

Just please don’t make Druid unplayable without healing power stats, if then you’ll be killing build diversity. We need heals + damage to fill up C. Avatar and i really don’t want play a healer in WvW/Spvp. Don’t force me go into old ranger because you know, we all bought the expansion, right? I want play the “new” stuffs.

To help compensate for these general reductions, we’ll be increasing both damage and a few different baseline boon durations.

Let’s see if the new Rev / Mesmer will be competitive in DPS.
It has some potential to open up build diversity instead of limiting it. Or players are so happy Revenants/Mesmers being useful only as boon buff bots. At least Mesmers can tank too, but Revenants are mostly needed for their boon duration boost.

It will be interesting to see how these changes will affect Revenant in PVP though, because Revs are really powerful there, and not because of them being boon-bots.

A Druid using Magi should get a nice boost in healing, at least that’s how I translate “enhanced significantly”, so that’s always nice.

Riikuu.8234:

Watch how gw1 was balancing with pvp and pve aspects.

Did I hear smiter’s boon?

Anet – you could save some time and implement the following changes:

1. Log in weekly and form a squad with the magical composition for 9 legendary insights
2. Replace all pvp modes with dragonball

No more balance worries.

Well any game skill or meta that gets caustic and abused will get nerfed to the ground its inevitable. This is sad and I did wish anet would balance rather than nerf but, dont always get what ya want.

Can Rev Hammer get a buff? All the recent nerfs to Rev Hammer kinda made the weapon meh. All the cooldowns are too long, hammer animation is too slow and predictable, CoR is slow, half the time doesn’t work if the floor is not flat.

A 20-25% cooldown reduction would be nice. Maybe make hammer #4 (shield) wider like DH’s courage shield (untraited) and attack animation speed maybe a bit faster would be great.

Hey, “Skills” team, how about you focus on finishing our base SKILL sets that’s been missing since you started classifying, wait for it… SKILLS into SETS!

If you have to change stuff at least some common sense and bump the duration of swiftness on SOI to 10 secs base, so that I don’t have to rely on Chrono or useless runes for speed increase.

Erzian.5218:

Riikuu.8234:

Watch how gw1 was balancing with pvp and pve aspects.

Did I hear smiter’s boon?

Well they did a Panic Nerf on Smiters Boon back then.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2yigwn/thank_you_pax_east_fans_had_a_great_time/cpad1gq

Like well a few Minutes of thinking and this happened.

Why do I think the same went on for Signet of Inspiration and Rev?

Thanks for the update Gaile.

As feedback, I’d like to see the context for the changes. Once upon a time, the balance team did blogs or forum discussion around proposed changes. These at least gave a clearer picture as to why such changes are felt necessary.

Whilst you’ll never get away from the inherent negativity balance changes and nerfs will generate, it will help with re-building transparency and community relations.

Well this forum feedback was educational. We laughed, we cried, we waited until the full patch notes without complaining. Oh wait.

Aslong as Mesmers can be more than boon share, alacritybots, moas and portals. We’ve needed a good DPS route to play that just doesn’t exist right now.

I would also like to hope that along with the balance changes, some cosmetic items are fixed, like The Juggernaut effects on Engineer grenade Barrage and Revenant hammer auto.

Ok, I believe is see the intention for the changes. It,s too bring druid in line with other healing builds such as ventari heal rev or aura share ele. Right now druid is the by far most wanted class in LFG, no wonder, since its the only viable healer, but arenanet never wanted to make a game were people have to wait 30min. and more for the right class.

As for the boon duration nerf, i’ve seen that coming for a long time. 50% is kind’a ridiculous tbh, that’s a full commanders gear worth of boon duration, basically for free.

this also ties into the quickness nerf a lot. quickness is the most powerfull DPS boon in game, making chrono to much of a stapele for every group.

overall i belief the changes are made to switch the focus in raids from team comp to build setup and i think that, specialty with legendary armor, and hopefully build saving, coming up, it is the ultimate goal that, a couple of elite specs down the line, every class… pardon “profession” can take every roll in a raid and do just fine.

Funny Thing is that Anet once decided to go against a 10-Man Boon Distribution because they feared a Supergroup with a stale Composition where you pack 1 of every Class and then YOLO. With this Changes however we run in the Risk of having a smaller Version of a Supergroup. Mesmer, Warri, Druid, Ele. Just mirror it. Perfect, you need nothing else ( ecept 2 Necros for a few Encounters ).

So yeah gg on that,

I am really not happy with These changes.
I thought you would now nerf Epidemic, but it looks like you gonna kill the Revenant.
I run a commander’s chrono, but i’m really not sure if i continue. It was really expensive for me to gear him up, and it makes me feel totally kittened.

The build diversity which we have for now is great, exept for the Engineer (just W1, just Condi, no elite spec) and thief maybe.
I see that in the near future the raid will look like: 2 PS warriors, 2 Druids, 2 Chrono, 4 Tempests
I really dislike it, if it will be in this kind of way.

SoI doesn’t feel unbalanced, i guess it was three years good, but now oh hell no! facepalm
The rev with his really low base dps, who has his spot just for boon Duration and cc will loose it. really really bad changes.

(btw i just Play pve and pvp, no wvwvw)

Too much over-reaction and many things taken for granted without still having seen the whole balance notes.

Raids are going to use a mirror comp, autoattack heavy classes will be left out because the increased alacrity, druids will have to regear to healing power, …

If mirror comp is the answer, what prevents a mesmer from dropping the chrono runes (since they are not that useful anymore once SoI has a fixed duration for quickness), getting rid of a few wells and building on a completely different way?
Wouldn’t be possible to make some kind of chrono-tank-healer using minstrels and, lets say, runes of water and some mantras? Wouldn’t this allow the druid on that subgroup to keep playing vipers or zerkers without any issue?
Once chrono runes and a bar full of wells are out, and considering you only have to worry about buffing 5 people, wouldn’t be easier to build a more damage oriented chrono for the other subgroup? Would the alacrity applied by shield phantasms over certain classes result in more damage than just getting rid of the shield and using more offensive phantasms and more autoattack heavy DPSers?
Wouldn’t a condi chrono (maybe not even chrono, since sigil of agility seems enough as SoI fodder) be much more viable on this situation, maybe with the support of a revenant (for boon duration, even if it’s nerfed) and/or a guardian (for additional party wide quickness generation)?

Yes, switching to a standard mirror comp will be probably the first move to handle these changes, specially by PUG groups, and, who knows, it could easily become the new stablished meta, but it’s definitely too soon to take so many things for granted.

I must be quite out of touch with popular builds… But here goes:

Based on what I’m reading, people saying Druids will need to “regear into Healing Power”… Don’t they already? I mean in my own experience, they use Zealot’s or less commonly some healing power primary stat. What would they be using to require a change?

Second, all this talk about “mirror comps”. Any combination can beat a raid, as long as your people don’t die and you have the minimum threshold for DPS, and cover the basics of what’s needed (tank, healer, condi, boom strip, etc)

I never knew there was a meta comp for the raid
I will go back under my rock now.

These changes make sense, it’s nice to put emphasis on stat selection

Warcry.1596:

I must be quite out of touch with popular builds… But here goes:

Based on what I’m reading, people saying Druids will need to “regear into Healing Power”… Don’t they already? I mean in my own experience, they use Zealot’s or less commonly some healing power primary stat. What would they be using to require a change?

Second, all this talk about “mirror comps”. Any combination can beat a raid, as long as your people don’t die and you have the minimum threshold for DPS, and cover the basics of what’s needed (tank, healer, condi, boom strip, etc)

I never knew there was a meta comp for the raid
I will go back under my rock now.

These changes make sense, it’s nice to put emphasis on stat selection

I’m sorry to put this so harsh, but if you don’t know why people are angry at these changes, then don’t comment on it.

It’s not that raid will be unbeatable with these changes, but it pushes classes out of the meta (Revenant, Hammer Guardian, Thief most notably), it forces a mirror comp which gives you a lot less options to play with, making it more stale in the process.
It’s basically saying RIP to the balanced PvE meta where maybe only 1 class needed looking at (Engi/Scrapper) because it is a bit too weak.

And it will change nothing for WvW, as SoI is not the source of the problem, but Durability runes, Revenant Resistance Spam and the in HoT inroduced +Boon Duration Stats on Armors and Weapon are.
The Balanced Meta in one gamemode gets gutted while it will do little to nothing for the targeted gamemode.

A skills and traits split for PvE and PvP/WvW has been requested by players for years now. I wonder why you don’t want to address this first before doing balance changes that could affect different play modes.

Dominik.5162:

Warcry.1596:

I must be quite out of touch with popular builds… But here goes:

Based on what I’m reading, people saying Druids will need to “regear into Healing Power”… Don’t they already? I mean in my own experience, they use Zealot’s or less commonly some healing power primary stat. What would they be using to require a change?

Second, all this talk about “mirror comps”. Any combination can beat a raid, as long as your people don’t die and you have the minimum threshold for DPS, and cover the basics of what’s needed (tank, healer, condi, boom strip, etc)

I never knew there was a meta comp for the raid
I will go back under my rock now.

These changes make sense, it’s nice to put emphasis on stat selection

I’m sorry to put this so harsh, but if you don’t know why people are angry at these changes, then don’t comment on it.

It’s not that raid will be unbeatable with these changes, but it pushes classes out of the meta (Revenant, Hammer Guardian, Thief most notably), it forces a mirror comp which gives you a lot less options to play with, making it more stale in the process.
It’s basically saying RIP to the balanced PvE meta where maybe only 1 class needed looking at (Engi/Scrapper) because it is a bit too weak.

And it will change nothing for WvW, as SoI is not the source of the problem, but Durability runes, Revenant Resistance Spam and the in HoT inroduced +Boon Duration Stats on Armors and Weapon are.
The Balanced Meta in one gamemode gets gutted while it will do little to nothing for the targeted gamemode.

But how/why? Any profession can be used and is viable. I honestly learned just from your post that Guardians should be using hammer. In MY experience, which is all I can base any post on… All of what you were saying is mostly foreign to me. Mirror comps, hammer guard.

Spira.4578:

Nuzt.7894:

the difference with PvP and WvW is your playing other people, they aren’t scripted you don’t already know they are going to unleash hell at 20% chances are they will be mashing 1 and it won’t require thought but occasionally a unicorn appears and they press #2.

Which doesn’t mean much if everyone’s using the same strategy.
People in wvw will react and counter react in the same way making it boring as well.
70% of the time people simply spam swiftness skills to run from one point to another.
20% of the time they spam 1 and other aoe skills and 10% of the time they actually might do something right by throwing down a wall, portal and other things that would benefit a side in the fight of the blobs – that is, if they have a good enough pc to not get negative FPS as soon a the 2 sides clashes. In that case they will probably just spam things and hope for the best.

So you don’t even play necromancer and you talk like you know everything about the class, now you do the same thing with wvw.
Please stop. Your comments are not useful for the discussion.

Posting some math from Fay.
" Lets assume you can only get 6s per SoI usage even at 100% duration. Some quick math.

A full buff rotation is shield 5 (2×3s), well of action (6s), SoI x3 (cast, mimic cast, trait cast) all repeated twice. This means you’ll get 4×3s, 2×6s, 6×6s of quickness in an aoe. This produces 60s of quickness. Halfway through the cooldown of CS, you can do shield 5, well of action, and 2x SoI again for another 24s of quickness. In total this produces 80 seconds of quickness on a ~70 second cooldown.

Easy permanent quickness for 5 people if you stick to the rotation."
So maybe people are overreacting ( as always ).

Spira.4578:

A thief will get downed in 1 hit, so will a mesmer. and yes, it’s true that they have a few escapes there…

a few escapes…

few…

Ok, I’m officially done reading your bs. Learn the game, THEN and only then, go to forums a try to discuss with people who actually play this game.

just dont forget to gut mesmers

Warcry.1596:

Dominik.5162:

Warcry.1596:

I must be quite out of touch with popular builds… But here goes:

Based on what I’m reading, people saying Druids will need to “regear into Healing Power”… Don’t they already? I mean in my own experience, they use Zealot’s or less commonly some healing power primary stat. What would they be using to require a change?

Second, all this talk about “mirror comps”. Any combination can beat a raid, as long as your people don’t die and you have the minimum threshold for DPS, and cover the basics of what’s needed (tank, healer, condi, boom strip, etc)

I never knew there was a meta comp for the raid
I will go back under my rock now.

These changes make sense, it’s nice to put emphasis on stat selection

I’m sorry to put this so harsh, but if you don’t know why people are angry at these changes, then don’t comment on it.

It’s not that raid will be unbeatable with these changes, but it pushes classes out of the meta (Revenant, Hammer Guardian, Thief most notably), it forces a mirror comp which gives you a lot less options to play with, making it more stale in the process.
It’s basically saying RIP to the balanced PvE meta where maybe only 1 class needed looking at (Engi/Scrapper) because it is a bit too weak.

And it will change nothing for WvW, as SoI is not the source of the problem, but Durability runes, Revenant Resistance Spam and the in HoT inroduced +Boon Duration Stats on Armors and Weapon are.
The Balanced Meta in one gamemode gets gutted while it will do little to nothing for the targeted gamemode.

But how/why? Any profession can be used and is viable. I honestly learned just from your post that Guardians should be using hammer. In MY experience, which is all I can base any post on… All of what you were saying is mostly foreign to me. Mirror comps, hammer guard.

There is a thing called team composition in the meta, which refers to builds that are seen as the most effective/complement each other the best way.
Currently chronomancer use Signet of Inspiration to spread quickness to the raid, only 1 is needed. That allows the revenant to get a spot in complementing the chronomancer with additional boon duration.
If SoI gets a fixed duration on boons shared, you will need 2 chronomancers (1 in each party). So which class isn’t needed anymore and will be the one to make place for the second chrono? The revenant, so he is basically out as he also can’t keep up with other DPS classes.

Next, in a scenario where you have 1 chronomancer in each party, your alacrity will be much higher than before where 1 mesmer was in the raid. 1 mesmer can’t keep alot of alacrity up on 9 other players, but 2 can easily.

Thief and Hammer Guardian builds don’t gain alot from Alacrity so they’ll fall off in terms of DPS, making Elementalist the strongest class for raids once again, at least Scepter&Sword + Torch Guardian will have some uses most likely.
But instead of the balanced meta where alot of DPS classes could potentially be played without sincere loss of DPS, you now basically push alot off.

I also never said that Guardian should use hammer (for most pugs it might’ve been better tho), but now the possibility won’t be there as it won’t hold up to other builds.

Ofc raids are beatable with alot of things, but people want to play what works best, because what works best is usually faster, gives you a higher chance of getting the kill, or is simply safer to use.

Pushing 3 classes out of those “what works best” compositions is NOT good, it’s the opposite.

Boonshare is the one (really) good thing a Mesmer can do (in Raids/PVE). There is no Buid for high DPS, or Condition Damage. So far i dont see how my Mesmer will become more Balanced !

If I look at an ordinary Raid-Squad – there is one Chrono, one Druid and one Revenant- why are changes hit this Singular Classes????
May I suggest to fokus more on the Classes that normally get no Place in Raid-Squads (or Higher Fractals) like Engineer?!

It’s funny.
Assuming the numbers mean it is better to go for kitten comp..
I see the raid mirror comps possibly being:
2 ps, 2 druid, 2 chrono 1-2 rev, 2-3 dps.

Eles/necros don’t bring assassins presence. Depending on how much ( if at all) rev dps is buffed to compensate for nerfs to f2.

Dominik.5162:

Warcry.1596:

Dominik.5162:

Warcry.1596:

I must be quite out of touch with popular builds… But here goes:

Based on what I’m reading, people saying Druids will need to “regear into Healing Power”… Don’t they already? I mean in my own experience, they use Zealot’s or less commonly some healing power primary stat. What would they be using to require a change?

Second, all this talk about “mirror comps”. Any combination can beat a raid, as long as your people don’t die and you have the minimum threshold for DPS, and cover the basics of what’s needed (tank, healer, condi, boom strip, etc)

I never knew there was a meta comp for the raid
I will go back under my rock now.

These changes make sense, it’s nice to put emphasis on stat selection

I’m sorry to put this so harsh, but if you don’t know why people are angry at these changes, then don’t comment on it.

It’s not that raid will be unbeatable with these changes, but it pushes classes out of the meta (Revenant, Hammer Guardian, Thief most notably), it forces a mirror comp which gives you a lot less options to play with, making it more stale in the process.
It’s basically saying RIP to the balanced PvE meta where maybe only 1 class needed looking at (Engi/Scrapper) because it is a bit too weak.

And it will change nothing for WvW, as SoI is not the source of the problem, but Durability runes, Revenant Resistance Spam and the in HoT inroduced +Boon Duration Stats on Armors and Weapon are.
The Balanced Meta in one gamemode gets gutted while it will do little to nothing for the targeted gamemode.

But how/why? Any profession can be used and is viable. I honestly learned just from your post that Guardians should be using hammer. In MY experience, which is all I can base any post on… All of what you were saying is mostly foreign to me. Mirror comps, hammer guard.

There is a thing called team composition in the meta, which refers to builds that are seen as the most effective/complement each other the best way.
Currently chronomancer use Signet of Inspiration to spread quickness to the raid, only 1 is needed. That allows the revenant to get a spot in complementing the chronomancer with additional boon duration.
If SoI gets a fixed duration on boons shared, you will need 2 chronomancers (1 in each party). So which class isn’t needed anymore and will be the one to make place for the second chrono? The revenant, so he is basically out as he also can’t keep up with other DPS classes.

Next, in a scenario where you have 1 chronomancer in each party, your alacrity will be much higher than before where 1 mesmer was in the raid. 1 mesmer can’t keep alot of alacrity up on 9 other players, but 2 can easily.

Thief and Hammer Guardian builds don’t gain alot from Alacrity so they’ll fall off in terms of DPS, making Elementalist the strongest class for raids once again, at least Scepter&Sword + Torch Guardian will have some uses most likely.
But instead of the balanced meta where alot of DPS classes could potentially be played without sincere loss of DPS, you now basically push alot off.

I also never said that Guardian should use hammer (for most pugs it might’ve been better tho), but now the possibility won’t be there as it won’t hold up to other builds.

Ofc raids are beatable with alot of things, but people want to play what works best, because what works best is usually faster, gives you a higher chance of getting the kill, or is simply safer to use.

Pushing 3 classes out of those “what works best” compositions is NOT good, it’s the opposite.

Oh thank you for the clarification! I never experienced that stuff just because i don’t randomly join parties for it.

So let me get this straight….if eles go full zerk gear and have no sustain it’s ok…but druids should be able to use zerg gear and still have easy sustain?

Rangers have plenty of dmg in pve so again I dunno what people are saying, drop the staff and pick longbow, warhorn for dps buff and you’re gold.

Rangers can easily stack protection/regen/vigor even better than ele on any gear, have ranged and mele dps at the same time…so why the hell are you even complaining?
I wonder if all these druids actually mained a ranger before druid…….

Bramymond.7689:

Minstrel.7615:

Another completely unnecessary nerf. Does anyone at Anet actually play hardcore Druid? Every nerf has been a kneejerk reaction from PvP without any thought to how it affects PvE or the content it was designed for: Raids. I’ve advocated over and over again that Anet needs to stop with trying to balance between three incredibly different game modes. It cannot be done, and let’s face it, you only care about eSports revenue anyway.

Nerfing baseline healing values is obviously going to make all off-heal builds become nonviable, namely Viper’s. Where is the build diversity here? Forcing people to run Magi’s gear to be an effective healer is shoehorning Druid into a Raid-only spec. I don’t think I need to go into details why this is a terrible design and direction.

If you are trying to cull the power creep HoT created (which was clearly going to happen from the get-go), then it needs to be across the board. Ranger has had huge problems that needed to be addressed for 3 years before it was “reinvented” into Druid. If you want to make vanilla classes viable again, Ranger was certainly the worst class the start with, since it flat out needs a rework to be viable in today’s meta. Not only does it have poor DPS options, pets are a function the majority of Ranger mains want to become optional or outright gone. The couple of buffs Ranger are forced to build are not enough to carve out any sort of definitive role, which is why the “Healer” band-aid worked at all.

We as a community need some justification and reasoning for drastic changes like this. The company’s transparency became a hard wall of PR when MO took over, and the players have definitely noticed. New management has finally started to deliver, but the relationship and trust still hasn’t been rebuilt almost a full year later.

Not for be a bad person! But Ranger as normal Condi have the best DPS atm, highter than other class (Not necro, ’cause his infinity minion) and as Zerker isnt bad too.. Just! We got an Healer class, play as Healer! Is pointless crying on this things (And to be honest, isnt hardcore run Condi Druid if you get a passive tree full of Outgoing healing!) just play and amen.
And for be Honest : If the Mesmer will stay like this, no one can be better than him on tanking / Buff group so.. in the future their (Anet) cant create a better Tank with other mechanics or Healer (for Druid.. because is OP as kitten on Raid content : heal, do damage, buff party! cmon… dont kittenin cry on kittenin OP class and i talk AS ranger main!)

Iam waiting to come back to this game if Power Necro and more specific GS gets buffed, atm that class is dead…

Engar.6074:

Bramymond.7689:

Minstrel.7615:

Another completely unnecessary nerf. Does anyone at Anet actually play hardcore Druid? Every nerf has been a kneejerk reaction from PvP without any thought to how it affects PvE or the content it was designed for: Raids. I’ve advocated over and over again that Anet needs to stop with trying to balance between three incredibly different game modes. It cannot be done, and let’s face it, you only care about eSports revenue anyway.

Nerfing baseline healing values is obviously going to make all off-heal builds become nonviable, namely Viper’s. Where is the build diversity here? Forcing people to run Magi’s gear to be an effective healer is shoehorning Druid into a Raid-only spec. I don’t think I need to go into details why this is a terrible design and direction.

If you are trying to cull the power creep HoT created (which was clearly going to happen from the get-go), then it needs to be across the board. Ranger has had huge problems that needed to be addressed for 3 years before it was “reinvented” into Druid. If you want to make vanilla classes viable again, Ranger was certainly the worst class the start with, since it flat out needs a rework to be viable in today’s meta. Not only does it have poor DPS options, pets are a function the majority of Ranger mains want to become optional or outright gone. The couple of buffs Ranger are forced to build are not enough to carve out any sort of definitive role, which is why the “Healer” band-aid worked at all.

We as a community need some justification and reasoning for drastic changes like this. The company’s transparency became a hard wall of PR when MO took over, and the players have definitely noticed. New management has finally started to deliver, but the relationship and trust still hasn’t been rebuilt almost a full year later.

Not for be a bad person! But Ranger as normal Condi have the best DPS atm, highter than other class (Not necro, ’cause his infinity minion) and as Zerker isnt bad too.. Just! We got an Healer class, play as Healer! Is pointless crying on this things (And to be honest, isnt hardcore run Condi Druid if you get a passive tree full of Outgoing healing!) just play and amen.
And for be Honest : If the Mesmer will stay like this, no one can be better than him on tanking / Buff group so.. in the future their (Anet) cant create a better Tank with other mechanics or Healer (for Druid.. because is OP as kitten on Raid content : heal, do damage, buff party! cmon… dont kittenin cry on kittenin OP class and i talk AS ranger main!)

You’re correct, but this nerf does nothing to correct druid. Regardless of it having to wear magi armor it still has grace of the land and glyph of empowerment. That alone puts any other healer at a disadvantage.

That’s what’s confusing to me. There’s no point in nerfing more offensive off-healers, it just narrows the builds you can use while keeping the reason why druids are going to stay the one and only good healer spec.

Supreme.3164:

So let me get this straight….if eles go full zerk gear and have no sustain it’s ok…but druids should be able to use zerg gear and still have easy sustain?

Rangers have plenty of dmg in pve so again I dunno what people are saying, drop the staff and pick longbow, warhorn for dps buff and you’re gold.

Rangers can easily stack protection/regen/vigor even better than ele on any gear, have ranged and mele dps at the same time…so why the hell are you even complaining?
I wonder if all these druids actually mained a ranger before druid…….

I think the complaint is the class elite spec mechanic is focused entirely on healing/support. ( I actually forgot druid is technically a subclass of ranger for a while..)

druid and a “dps build” simply contradict each other.

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the Skills Team:

Way to throw poor Gaile in front of the bus there “Skills Team”! At least they don’t call themselves the “Balance Team” anymore…

KyreneZA.8617:

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the Skills Team:

Way to throw poor Gaile in front of the bus there “Skills Team”! At least they don’t call themselves the “Balance Team” anymore…

It’s her job to jump in front of the proverbial bus.

However your post made me lol

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the Skills Team:

Greetings, Tyrians!

We are here today to talk about some of the build-thematic changes that will be coming with the next balance iteration. Depending on your chosen profession and your role in combat, these changes may require some stat-swapping on your gear. We feel that giving a bit of a “heads-up” is appropriate.

So, think we could get some numbers and details? Right now it’s just wild speculation, not really a heads up. We just got confirmation that the rumors we’ve heard are true that the things we heard were being nerfed are being nerfed, but without numbers how can we use this information to make intelligent changes to gear?

Was the idea more “start saving to change gear” or were you intending for us to start swapping? Because it seems it’d be pretty silly to start swapping if in the end we didn’t need to >.<

what anet is trying to do is force people to build for what they are for, Druid was a prime example because if you want to be the healer you have to BUILD for healing. you shouldn’t be able to put out the same dmg/condi as other players and still heal. it doesn’t make sense, this is why they are trying to push for build what you want to do.

Supreme.3164:

So let me get this straight….if eles go full zerk gear and have no sustain it’s ok…but druids should be able to use zerg gear and still have easy sustain?

You might actually stop for a second, and then compare the dps and heal numbers of tempest and druid (and yes, do compare not to condi ranger build, but to healing druid one).
Then we can talk.

Coppy boons you appied to yourself to allies.
Fixed

Dzjudz.9142:

If you want Druids to use healing power, could you add an offensive stat combo for condition power Druids that has healing power?

Currently the only options are:
- Shaman (Major Vitality, Minor Condition Damage & Healing Power): defensive stat combo, vitality isn’t very useful, only offensive part is minor condi dmg.
- Settler (Major Toughness, Minor Condition Damage & Healing Power): because of major toughness very bad for messing with tanking in raids. Only one minor offensive stat again.
- Apothecary (Major Healing Power, Minor Condition Damage & Toughness): still toughness to mess with tanking in raids, and only minor offensive stat.

So no option comparable to for example Zealot (Major Power, Minor Precision & Healing Power) that power builds can use.

Example of something that could be used:

Major Condition Damage & Power, Minor Expertise & Healing Power (similar to Viper)

I know that Clerics (Major Healing, minor Power/Toughness) is so unpopular as to not exist, but it does. It’s better than Apothecary in youre scenarios, anyway.

Things that happen when you miss the word, “condition” with “power.”

Maybe the balance change might make Cleric’s gear desirable? Who knows… they give very little details.

morrolan.9608:

Pedroso.4603:

As always, balance focused on pve and not pvp.

gg.

What? Boon changes and druid changes are applicable to WvW and pvp.

Because god forbid we are more useful than looking fabulous.

I just want personal DPS if they are going to keep taking away my party utility. Heck, I just want personal DPS because I do less and less party things these days… the world links have all but killed my WvW guild anyway.

morrolan.9608:

Ithilwen.1529:

Sounds as if we’re looking to send Mesmer to the bottom of the list, again. I don’t understand what seems to be an institutional dislike for Mesmer.

Given that its possible to get minutes of quickness and protection across a whole squad primarily due to boon share mesmers interaction with revenants some change was needed. My reading is that it doesn’t impact non boonshare builds.

Good luck getting into a raid squad or high level fractals without being a boon bot.

“I’m a DPS shatter memser!”

{kicking intensifies}

Walhalla.5473:

Nukkuu.6591:

Zelulose.8695:

It isn’t all bad. They are increasing mesmer damage

But we’re a support class and always have been. Our damage is irrelevant, if people want to do damage they should role another class. 90% of classes do damage. Let us keeps our unique active support role.

At least I see the Chrono as pure Support. Mesmer should get Damage with a new Elite Spec but it seems that Chronos will now get DPS thats not kitten anymore, just Bad ( because buffing Damage is what a pure Support Class needs ) and mediocre supporting capabilities.

Mesmers get DPS? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! We’ll get a buff to Staff or Pistol. That won’t help.

Crossplay.2067:

Personally, I see the solution being simple. Whenever someone strips a boon from their opponent, that boon can’t be reapplied for 8 seconds. If that boon is corrupted, it can’t be reapplied for 4 seconds. The numbers can be tuned up or down as needed. This would allow more diversity as those whom rely heavily on boons have a counter and people will make builds with the sole purpose of denying others. It would even work well in PVE against bosses that constantly gain boons no matter how much they are stripped. The karka vets and champs immediately come to mind.

This so much! The boonspam is so large in part because you strip a Hearlad boon and it just COMES RIGHT BACK unless you KILL THE HEARLD!

Pt 2 because 5000 limit —

Crossplay.2067:

I also have a concern about Signet of Inspiration. If you’re going to nerf the active effect, redesign the passive to be as desirable as the active. There’s no point in having random boons because there’s no way to guarantee you’ll have the boon you want when you want it. Perhaps it could simply pulse vigor and swiftness. Both would be very beneficial to mesmers.

This I actually like, essentially perma switftness and vigor, which both enhance the Mesmer playstyle (try and avoid damage) but don’t really buff DPS classes.

I’d rather it give the same perma or near perma boons and actually INSPIRE me rather than the current SIGNET OF ADHD it currently is.

finkle.9513:

Revenant – didnt you buff it as it was under powered?
– Up and down like a dam yo yo, you wonder why people get annoyed… make things work correctly in the first place without rushing them. Revenant will be useless for raids, weak in PVE,
– when you announce a change, cant you add a rationale?

Under powered and broken to the point where only 3 of the 5 legends are viable. There is a reason I gave up, moved all my Rev’s Ascended to other characters, put her in exotic karma armor and guild weapons, and stuck her on perm daily Teq duty.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

KyreneZA.8617:

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the Skills Team:

Way to throw poor Gaile in front of the bus there “Skills Team”! At least they don’t call themselves the “Balance Team” anymore…

It’s her job to jump in front of the proverbial bus.

However your post made me lol

So, she is ANet’s version of Luke Cage?

For every person that continues to say that we have no context for the rest of the changes and we should stop making a fuss. Heres the reality, the changes they chose to display to us are BAD changes, and unfortunately part of the development process is to interpret feedback. So what kind of feedback are we giving…. you guessed it… Negative.

Do Necromancer’s need to have epidemic nerfed so that other things in the class can be buffed to shine. Yes, absolutely. Will A-net actually buff the other stuff after gutting Epidemic? Doubtful.

The unfortunate reality is if we only get negative information we can only account for negative outcomes. There was no ‘These changes were slated for PvE and these are for WvW’ because as much as we continue to pressure there has not been a serious endeavor to split the balance between the three game modes. Only minor changes.

Not splitting the game mode balance can only potentially drive players away, theres no positive effect to not splitting the game modes. Developer time or not it needs to be done. This is VERY frustrating and its not like this is the first time we have brought this up.

After reviewing this thread I agree with many that it is time to separate WvW from PvE. Its no secret that I’m a WvW fan. That is “my game mode”. However what I see being purposed makes me happy but it is going to have a negative impact on the PvE community. I don’t want that. This game has had too many shake-ups and the recovery from the last one has been slow (check the numbers do the math). The formula between pvp,wvw,pve,raids creates too many variables to balance without having a negative impact on game mode, diversity, and classes.

Its time to take a serious look at this proposal that players from all platforms have asked for. Please.
Respectfully.
Kamara

Kylden Ar.3724:

Dzjudz.9142:

If you want Druids to use healing power, could you add an offensive stat combo for condition power Druids that has healing power?

Currently the only options are:
- Shaman (Major Vitality, Minor Condition Damage & Healing Power): defensive stat combo, vitality isn’t very useful, only offensive part is minor condi dmg.
- Settler (Major Toughness, Minor Condition Damage & Healing Power): because of major toughness very bad for messing with tanking in raids. Only one minor offensive stat again.
- Apothecary (Major Healing Power, Minor Condition Damage & Toughness): still toughness to mess with tanking in raids, and only minor offensive stat.

So no option comparable to for example Zealot (Major Power, Minor Precision & Healing Power) that power builds can use.

Example of something that could be used:

Major Condition Damage & Power, Minor Expertise & Healing Power (similar to Viper)

I know that Clerics (Major Healing, minor Power/Toughness) is so unpopular as to not exist, but it does. It’s better than Apothecary in youre scenarios, anyway.

I listed options for healing power in CONDITION builds. I’m perfectly aware of Cleric, but I sincerely hope you are not suggesting running Cleric gear for a condition build.