Guild Wars 2

I think a lot of players are “doing it wrong”.

This game isn’t a life replacement. It isn’t a WoW replacement. It’s offering something else: a game that is like a SP game in that it has no gear treadmill carrot on a stick, and wants to be played for its own sake.

The game has flaws (needs many, many bugs fixed in higher level zones, needs retuning of storyline quests, needs more competition supporting aspects in sPvP, etc), but the “fix” is to simply tweak and refine and remain true to the game’s vision, which is NOT to be WoW. It’s not designed to a be a Skinner box game (the vanity chase is there, but that’s just for people who are into it … it gives no “stat advantage”, which is the primary established Skinner Box dopamine hit offered by most MMOs these days). It’s designed more like a game like Skyrim, where you play because you enjoy the gameplay, and you play as often or as little as it entertains you, as you are inclined to do — not because “I need to login for X hours every day to do my dailies/dungeon/tokens so I can advance my character”. It’s designed for the fun of it.

I love this design. It “fixes” MMOs for me. I do understand that many people are addicted to, or have had their expectations conditioned by, the Skinner box model of game design in MMOs. These people won’t like GW2, because it doesn’t fit what their expectations are and what they have been conditioned to want/expect in an MMO, even one without a subscription. It’s sad to me to see how rampant that is, it truly is, after having played MMOs now for over ten years, but it is what it is. For those people like me who don’t like the Skinner box design, the game is a wonderful breath of fresh air (and yes, my main is 80 and I have exotic gear and I am still finding stuff to do when I want to play).

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

The issue is that simply that the game is advertised as an MMO and an MMO is deeply associated with having a carrot. Really, though, I personally associate subscription fees with carrots more closely than MMOs. Because this game doesn’t have sub fees, I have lower expectations because they aren’t extorting money out of me monthly.

They are going to make new content, it just isn’t evident because the game just launched and there’s much to fix before content can be heavily focused on.

Hieronumous.3541:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

I guess he missed the part immediately after where I said “The game has problems,” and then the posts below that where I agreed with some other posters on what, specifically, those problems were.

Just a troll here, best to move along.

knightblaster.8027:

I think a lot of players are “doing it wrong”.

This game isn’t a life replacement. It isn’t a WoW replacement. It’s offering something else: a game that is like a SP game in that it has no gear treadmill carrot on a stick, and wants to be played for its own sake.

The game has flaws (needs many, many bugs fixed in higher level zones, needs retuning of storyline quests, needs more competition supporting aspects in sPvP, etc), but the “fix” is to simply tweak and refine and remain true to the game’s vision, which is NOT to be WoW. It’s not designed to a be a Skinner box game (the vanity chase is there, but that’s just for people who are into it … it gives no “stat advantage”, which is the primary established Skinner Box dopamine hit offered by most MMOs these days). It’s designed more like a game like Skyrim, where you play because you enjoy the gameplay, and you play as often or as little as it entertains you, as you are inclined to do — not because “I need to login for X hours every day to do my dailies/dungeon/tokens so I can advance my character”. It’s designed for the fun of it.

I love this design. It “fixes” MMOs for me. I do understand that many people are addicted to, or have had their expectations conditioned by, the Skinner box model of game design in MMOs. These people won’t like GW2, because it doesn’t fit what their expectations are and what they have been conditioned to want/expect in an MMO, even one without a subscription. It’s sad to me to see how rampant that is, it truly is, after having played MMOs now for over ten years, but it is what it is. For those people like me who don’t like the Skinner box design, the game is a wonderful breath of fresh air (and yes, my main is 80 and I have exotic gear and I am still finding stuff to do when I want to play).

Thank you for the contribution.

It’s nice to see that there are hardcore players who play the game knowing full well they will run into content limitations and still enjoy it for the experience up to the end anyway.

I’d liken the mindset of many modern MMO players to, “I’ve gorged myself on all the food in the fridge, and now there is nothing left. Bring more, or else!”

It honestly just kind of scares me, and is indicative of some deep seated addictions that people really need to deal with.

Bluebird.1890:

Hieronumous.3541:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

I guess he missed the part immediately after where I said “The game has problems,” and then the posts below that where I agreed with some other posters on what, specifically, those problems were.

Just a troll here, best to move along.

Trolling is a harsh word and it certainly isn’t my intention. It was meant to show you that how your tl;dr (not your entire post and the follow ups) reads exactly like what a fanboy would say. I would suggest you either don’t make a troll/flame bait tl;dr, or at least make them accurate to reflect the entire post.

Anyway, I’m just trying to clear up confusion about the deleted post of mine. Thankfully it’s preserved in quotes and I do hope you would agree with me, that this forum doesn’t need more fanboys complain about complainers in an inflammatory fashion.

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird.1890:

Hieronumous.3541:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

I guess he missed the part immediately after where I said “The game has problems,” and then the posts below that where I agreed with some other posters on what, specifically, those problems were.

Just a troll here, best to move along.

Trolling is a harsh word and it certainly isn’t my intention. It was meant to show you that how your tl;dr (not your entire post and the follow ups) reads exactly like what a fanboy would say. I would suggest you either don’t make a troll/flame bait tl;dr, or at least make them accurate to reflect the entire post.

Anyway, I’m just trying to clear up confusion about the deleted post of mine. Thankfully it’s preserved in quotes and I do hope you would agree with me, that this forum doesn’t need more fanboys complain about complainers in an inflammatory fashion.

But what it DOES need is anti-fanboy straw men crafters to complain about fanboys complaining about complainers in an inflammatory fashion?

Do people even think before they post any more?

Bluebird.1890:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird.1890:

Hieronumous.3541:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

I guess he missed the part immediately after where I said “The game has problems,” and then the posts below that where I agreed with some other posters on what, specifically, those problems were.

Just a troll here, best to move along.

Trolling is a harsh word and it certainly isn’t my intention. It was meant to show you that how your tl;dr (not your entire post and the follow ups) reads exactly like what a fanboy would say. I would suggest you either don’t make a troll/flame bait tl;dr, or at least make them accurate to reflect the entire post.

Anyway, I’m just trying to clear up confusion about the deleted post of mine. Thankfully it’s preserved in quotes and I do hope you would agree with me, that this forum doesn’t need more fanboys complain about complainers in an inflammatory fashion.

But what it DOES need is anti-fanboy straw men crafters to complain about fanboys complaining about complainers in an inflammatory fashion?

Do people even think before they post any more?

Did you? When creating this post, did you honestly think it was constructive, or just a way to get back at the anti-fanboys and people voicing their concerns – or, to you, whining?

Your TL;DR and the title of this thread seem to suggest highly that it’s the latter, and nothing else.

Gave.9408:

Bluebird.1890:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird.1890:

Hieronumous.3541:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

I guess he missed the part immediately after where I said “The game has problems,” and then the posts below that where I agreed with some other posters on what, specifically, those problems were.

Just a troll here, best to move along.

Trolling is a harsh word and it certainly isn’t my intention. It was meant to show you that how your tl;dr (not your entire post and the follow ups) reads exactly like what a fanboy would say. I would suggest you either don’t make a troll/flame bait tl;dr, or at least make them accurate to reflect the entire post.

Anyway, I’m just trying to clear up confusion about the deleted post of mine. Thankfully it’s preserved in quotes and I do hope you would agree with me, that this forum doesn’t need more fanboys complain about complainers in an inflammatory fashion.

But what it DOES need is anti-fanboy straw men crafters to complain about fanboys complaining about complainers in an inflammatory fashion?

Do people even think before they post any more?

Did you? When creating this post, did you honestly think it was constructive, or just a way to get back at the anti-fanboys and people voicing their concerns – or, to you, whining?

Your TL;DR seems to suggest highly that it’s the latter, and nothing else.

My post was intended to highlight a common theme among recent complaints in the general discussion boards, so that we could try and discern how to stop the developers from listening to them and avoid having the game turn into something that people who agree with me do not want it becoming.

Your reply seems to suggest highly that you either skipped most of the thread, or just have a distinct lack of ability to process what you read and decided to post anyway just because hey, why not?

Bluebird.1890:

Gave.9408:

Bluebird.1890:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird.1890:

Hieronumous.3541:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

I guess he missed the part immediately after where I said “The game has problems,” and then the posts below that where I agreed with some other posters on what, specifically, those problems were.

Just a troll here, best to move along.

Trolling is a harsh word and it certainly isn’t my intention. It was meant to show you that how your tl;dr (not your entire post and the follow ups) reads exactly like what a fanboy would say. I would suggest you either don’t make a troll/flame bait tl;dr, or at least make them accurate to reflect the entire post.

Anyway, I’m just trying to clear up confusion about the deleted post of mine. Thankfully it’s preserved in quotes and I do hope you would agree with me, that this forum doesn’t need more fanboys complain about complainers in an inflammatory fashion.

But what it DOES need is anti-fanboy straw men crafters to complain about fanboys complaining about complainers in an inflammatory fashion?

Do people even think before they post any more?

Did you? When creating this post, did you honestly think it was constructive, or just a way to get back at the anti-fanboys and people voicing their concerns – or, to you, whining?

Your TL;DR seems to suggest highly that it’s the latter, and nothing else.

My post was intended to highlight a common theme among recent complaints in the general discussion boards, so that we could try and discern how to stop the developers from listening to them and avoid having the game turn into something that people who agree with me do not want it becoming.

Your reply seems to suggest highly that you either skipped most of the thread, or just have a distinct lack of ability to process what you read and decided to post anyway just because hey, why not?

Wouldn’t a ‘common theme’ suggest that there are quite a few that are not happy with the current system?

Azzras.8041:

Bluebird.1890:

Gave.9408:

Bluebird.1890:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird.1890:

Hieronumous.3541:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

I guess he missed the part immediately after where I said “The game has problems,” and then the posts below that where I agreed with some other posters on what, specifically, those problems were.

Just a troll here, best to move along.

Trolling is a harsh word and it certainly isn’t my intention. It was meant to show you that how your tl;dr (not your entire post and the follow ups) reads exactly like what a fanboy would say. I would suggest you either don’t make a troll/flame bait tl;dr, or at least make them accurate to reflect the entire post.

Anyway, I’m just trying to clear up confusion about the deleted post of mine. Thankfully it’s preserved in quotes and I do hope you would agree with me, that this forum doesn’t need more fanboys complain about complainers in an inflammatory fashion.

But what it DOES need is anti-fanboy straw men crafters to complain about fanboys complaining about complainers in an inflammatory fashion?

Do people even think before they post any more?

Did you? When creating this post, did you honestly think it was constructive, or just a way to get back at the anti-fanboys and people voicing their concerns – or, to you, whining?

Your TL;DR seems to suggest highly that it’s the latter, and nothing else.

My post was intended to highlight a common theme among recent complaints in the general discussion boards, so that we could try and discern how to stop the developers from listening to them and avoid having the game turn into something that people who agree with me do not want it becoming.

Your reply seems to suggest highly that you either skipped most of the thread, or just have a distinct lack of ability to process what you read and decided to post anyway just because hey, why not?

Wouldn’t a ‘common theme’ suggest that there are quite a few that are not happy with the current system?

It actually seems to be the same people, over and over.
The term would be ‘vocal minority.’

Bluebird.1890:

Gave.9408:

Bluebird.1890:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird.1890:

Hieronumous.3541:

kgptzac.8419:

Bluebird

TL;DR Version:

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Don’t try to change the reward structure for the rest of us who do like the game. We were it’s intended recipients, as such has been clearly stated by Arenanet many, many times.

Let me rephrase it for you:

“This game is perfect and free of any bugs or design flaws. There can be no suggestion to improve the game, and all suggestions ever made will make this game less perfect. ArenaNet said that this game is perfect, so the only people who can play this perfect game are myself and people who think like myself. If you don’t think this game is perfect like I do, gtfo.”

Now, let’s see…

Bluebird

Anyway, I’m not a fanboy.

I can see why you believe that, lol.

Yep. Anyone who likes the game is a fanboy.

I guess he missed the part immediately after where I said “The game has problems,” and then the posts below that where I agreed with some other posters on what, specifically, those problems were.

Just a troll here, best to move along.

Trolling is a harsh word and it certainly isn’t my intention. It was meant to show you that how your tl;dr (not your entire post and the follow ups) reads exactly like what a fanboy would say. I would suggest you either don’t make a troll/flame bait tl;dr, or at least make them accurate to reflect the entire post.

Anyway, I’m just trying to clear up confusion about the deleted post of mine. Thankfully it’s preserved in quotes and I do hope you would agree with me, that this forum doesn’t need more fanboys complain about complainers in an inflammatory fashion.

But what it DOES need is anti-fanboy straw men crafters to complain about fanboys complaining about complainers in an inflammatory fashion?

Do people even think before they post any more?

Did you? When creating this post, did you honestly think it was constructive, or just a way to get back at the anti-fanboys and people voicing their concerns – or, to you, whining?

Your TL;DR seems to suggest highly that it’s the latter, and nothing else.

My post was intended to highlight a common theme among recent complaints in the general discussion boards, so that we could try and discern how to stop the developers from listening to them and avoid having the game turn into something that people who agree with me do not want it becoming.

Your reply seems to suggest highly that you either skipped most of the thread, or just have a distinct lack of ability to process what you read and decided to post anyway just because hey, why not?

This coming from the person whose overall message is literally generated and relayed in the exact same passive-aggressive, overly-entitled manner in which one might compose an argument for the exact opposite.

Whatever your intention, this isn’t constructive by any means. It’s just anti-fanboy bashing, from an apparent fan-boy. And this is coming from a guy who legitimately likes this game, carrot on a stick or not.

Tongue-in-cheek posts like this don’t help anyone. You’re only exacerbating things by being so snide and providing fuel for the proverbial fire.

Completely agree with the OP.

I have been having an absolute blast in WvW. It’s unrivaled fun that, really, no other game since DAOC has provided. (the original Alterac Valley was about it)

Every once in awhile I see someone ask in-game or on the forums: “I don’t understand WvW. What is the point of it? The rewards are horrible.”

That simple statement makes me realize there are two types of MMO players:

1. Those who have been conditioned over years of carrot-on-a-stick MMOs into thinking materialistic reward = fun.

2. Those who come from classic MMOs and DAOC who play for the competition and fun, not for the materialism.

Classic MMOs were always about adventure and discovery to me. Modern MMOs seem to be less about this and more about reward. Thank you ArenaNet for being the former and not the latter.

Gilgamesh.2561:

Completely agree with the OP.

I have been having an absolute blast in WvW. It’s unrivaled fun that, really, no other game since DAOC has provided. (the original Alterac Valley was about it)

Every once in awhile I see someone ask in-game or on the forums: “I don’t understand WvW. What is the point of it? The rewards are horrible.”

That simple statement makes me realize there are two types of MMO players:

1. Those who have been conditioned over years of carrot-on-a-stick MMOs into thinking materialistic reward = fun.

2. Those who come from classic MMOs and DAOC who play for the competition and fun, not for the materialism.

Classic MMOs were always about adventure and discovery to me. Modern MMOs seem to be less about this and more about reward. Thank you ArenaNet for being the former and not the latter.

There was a chap in the beta forums who once admitted: “Yeah, I don’t play MMOs for fun. If I wanted to play a game for fun, I would play BF3 or TF2 or something like that.”

This is unfortunately a deep mindset issue for many people — for them, MMOs are for “working” in a virtual environment towards virtual achievements, whereas other games are for “fun”. GW2 works against the grain there, but it rankles people who want a virtual workplace from an MMO (i.e., content that is endured, rather than played for fun, because of the reward for enduring the play), while looking to other games for fun in the gameplay itself.

I don’t play MMOs for carrots, I play for the fun.

I’m having an aweful lot of fun so far in this game, more fun than i have had in an MMO in some time. Its really nice that someone has gone back and realized that MMOs don’t have to be about chasing the next epic piece of armor, so that i can chase the next piece of epic armor…. ad nauseum.

Than can be other carrots than the ones that have been drilled into our brains the last 8 years, if thats what you wish, and they are in this game. Hopefully Anet can expand on them in the future.

Its nice to step outside the box occasionally, thank you Anet.

knightblaster beat me to it, but ultimately there will be people who treated this game as a traditional WoW clone and played it as such. However where this game moves away from that model they are left wanting, which they feel entitled to because they bought the box. Same issue with D3, many people complained about it when it was released but a lot of the the complaints were about stuff they should have known better about going in (I personally didn’t like D3 but because of what it is not what I expected it to be).

We will have to wait until people adapt or leave, and they will. ANet probably won’t cave to them (and I will be happy about that) because they don’t have to. The box has been sold and the old 80/20 rule of cash shops kick in.

Personally I like where ANet is taking this game, if feels different and to be frank I was burned out on the WoW formula. I am glad to be doing something different which is focused more on fun and exploring (I am loving the jump puzzles).

the point of mario was to save the princess. then you wanted to beat it faster. i even beat it while only playing the game with my feet on the standard NES controller

it was fun to beat it

MMORPGs aren’t supposed to be something you can BEAT, they’re SUPPOSED to be a never ending story.

Grammarye.3064:

I applaud the theme behind the post. I genuinely do not grasp the logic behind players desiring more Pavlovian conditioning to get one more carrot. I think what appalls me the most is when people don’t even see it occurring to them.

Gear treadmills are a common MMO staple for ongoing character progression. Unfortunately, they have a LOT of downsides, which considerably outweigh their advantages. Since I made that claim, here are a few:

• Gear treadmills require grinding as an intrinsic mechanic. This means they involve repeating content over and over, generally seeking a rare drop, or farming some sort of tokens used to trade for gear. Grinding is not inherently enjoyable; that’s why we call it “grinding” in fact. If I want to put my nose to the grindstone, metaphorically speaking, I do so at work, not at play.

• Gear treadmills inevitably create a barrier to entry for newer players. This barrier rises continually, making it harder and harder for new players to join in. On the same topic, games with gear treadmills are designed such that optimal play involves a large group of people willing to schedule their time regularly; this presents another barrier to entry.

• Gear treadmills are strictly about numerical progression; you’re seeking a weapon or piece of armor or jewelry with better numbers on it than the one you have. Generally speaking, there’s no narrative to pursue, no new game mechanics to unlock, and nothing “new” to the gear progression; merely bigger numbers. This can be dreadfully boring.

All of which is to say, as carrots go, gear treadmills are highly overrated.

Now, if people want to have a conversation about how to make the game provide more of the ‘wow we did it’ self-reward (yes, ok, it could be classed as a carrot, but it is at least a healthy carrot), or the ‘cool, I really had to engage my brain & think about my skills there’, ideally promoting self-worth rather than comparison-worth, then I’m up for that.

The word you seek is “fiero”; that’s Italian for “pride derived from an achievement”. And yeah, I think there are a lot of ways to provide that without needing a gear treadmill. Since I posted a bulleted list above, I suppose I ought to here as well. Sigh. I’m becoming a creature of habit.

• The best way to achieve fiero is arguably to defeat some very challenging content. If we do something that we didn’t know for certain we could do, if we overcome a meaningful obstacle, that feels good. The difficulty here is that MMOs, in general, are designed to be pretty easy, and so significant challenges are honestly pretty rare. Some games allow players to control the difficulty of encounters; this isn’t a bad idea in general since it allows a greater opportunity to find challenge. It’s worth mentioning that shared fiero seems to be stronger than individual fiero in many cases; if you do something challenging with a group and succeed, it can really be a great feeling.

• Rewards do also provide fiero, so you can e.g. spread random loot around. In GW2 item appearances are also valuable to players, as are fripperies like dyes and mini pets. Chasing loot doesn’t need to mean chasing slightly higher numbers on otherwise identical items.

• One of the best kinds of rewards isn’t an object your character uses, but rather an opportunity; which is to say that unlocking content can be a type of reward, and this can provide fiero. It can be a great feeling to finally be able to access something different and interesting… provided the reward is different and interesting of course!

I think constant hero development and goals are an integral part to keeping an mmo fun and interesting. However, these do not need to come as stat increases (and I really like that the developers are not including a loot treadmill type dungeon tier system).

New unique armor models, novelty items, challenge events, timed dungeons, rare recipes, jumping puzzles, or non-stat bonuses (like special items that give you +2-3 crafting levels upon consumption) and crazy random items for rare non-formulaic crafting discoveries are all ways to promote uniqueness without just increasing stats by +10 through sequential dungeons.

These achievements would stand as trophies and vanity items, displaying your expertise and time investment in the game.

It’s been incredibly pleasant for me to see all the people file out of the woodwork to support the lack of a power-gap creating gear treadmill on this thread.

Thanks guys! You made me feel a bit better about the GW2 community here