Guild Wars 2

One of the main draws to Guild Wars 2 for me has been the mechanic that adjusts your character’s effective level downward to one more suitable for the area you’re in. It essentially makes the entire world “end game content”. It also removes the fear of out-leveling content simply by playing the game normally (which leads to ridiculously easy combat, and eventually boredom), a problem I’ve experienced and come to loathe in several MMOs lately (I’m looking mostly at you, SWTOR and TERA).

Needless to say, I’m a big fan of this system. The problem I’m having is that it doesn’t seem to be working very well. And while I know there are players who dislike this entire system, when it comes down to it this is one of the core mechanics of GW2, it’s not going anywhere, and since it’s going to be around it should at least be working.

If you compare two characters in the same area, both stripped naked of equipment, one at (example) level 5 and the other at level 20 (but with an adjusted effective level of 5), the latter has much higher stats despite the adjustment. This is mainly due to traits the other character doesn’t have access to. Add on to that superior equipment with multiple stat modifiers, access to higher level skills, etc, and it just makes the problem worse. Even naked the down-leveled character is much more powerful than his counterpart, never mind when fully equipped.

There’s just a huge difference in terms of challenge (and thus, in my opinion, fun) between playing a character that is at the proper level for an area and a character who is down-leveled to the proper level for an area. We’re supposed to be (for example) excited when we see more players arriving to help with an event, but instead I’m discouraged because when I recognize that many of them (even myself) are higher level characters that have been artificially down-leveled, I know they’ll still be wiping the floor with monsters in said event with very little effort, thus turning what could have been an epic battle into a circus-style cakewalk. It just completely spoils the fun.

The developers have always said that even with the level scaling, higher level characters would be a “tiny” bit more powerful than normal, but in my opinion this is far from a little difference in power. And while I appreciate the effort, I think there’s definitely room for tweaking to bring this mechanic closer in line with its intended purpose.

Lowbie mobs can still kill me. I like it exactly the way it is.

TwistedWarrior.8613:

Lowbie mobs can still kill me. I like it exactly the way it is.

That’s because your health pool is small and this is not the type of game where you can just sit there and soak up multiple sources of damage. And that has nothing to do with being able to two-shot a mob as a higher-level-but-scaled-down character while someone at the correct level and same class is struggling through a 20+ second fight because the former character has way superior stats despite the scaling.

Low level mobs can still kill me too, especially during events when I foolishly stick myself out in front of everyone and then take a dozen+ hits in the span of two seconds from the next wave of mobs that came streaming in. That has less to do with level scaling and more to do with playing foolishly.

The main issues with downleveling isn’t scaling. Here are my problems:

1) I have no incentive to actually go to a lower level area. The “world” is definitely not the end-game. It’s very obviously the 70-80 zones just due to the nature of rewards.

2) The opportunity cost of actually waypointing to a lower level zone and hoping to find something that’s fit for my higher level character is quite frankly depressing. After full completion, I have little reason to ever go back just because the waypoint cost discourages it. Heck, it even discourages me from quickly lending a hand to a friend. 10 silver round trip to help him with a DE… hmmm no TY.

3) Hearts are not repeatable. This issue came up when I was conceptualizing playing with a friend that was just starting. I see no reason why this isn’t already true. They can easily implement a diminished return on repeating a heart (that then goes away when you do other things). This will help curb botting of DE’s. Again, no idea why this system isn’t already in place.

I have no problem with being more powerfull when downscaled.

What would be the point of lvling and gear then? Might aswell as remove levels and gear, and have people match the zones upon entering.

No.

I like to come back and feel slighty more powerful. The difference isnt that big, nor game breaking.

Also, the cost of waypoints doesnt bother me. Theyre a luxury, not forced upon you. If you dont want to spend 10s to play with your friend, either your lazy to travel or he aint that much of a friend to begin with :p ( yah, i know, thats harsh. Still… Traveling is simple and cheap when you want to).

Think the system is fine, even if sometimes it downscales me too much( makes me lvl6 against lvl 9/10 mobs. Oh joy :p).

I love the level scaling because it makes all of the content still fun and challenging. I have been enjoying going to other low level areas to experience the content without breezing through it with the ability to one shot everything I come across. Honestly, it’s one of my favorite features of this game. I think that the way the scaling is done still gives a sense of progression to higher level characters (by not reducing or locking access to earned skills, gear, weapons, etc) while still showing a marked challenge, for me at least.

I think it works better here than I’ve seen it in other games (EQ2 and Rift). That you scale automatically is excellent.

Remember too that level 5 mobs, even when you are level 5, die a lot easier than a level 20 mob. Mob’s start to even out later in the game, at level 63 there have definitely been some level 55 mobs that have beaten me up pretty bad.

I am not saying the system is perfect, but comparing mobs of such vastly different levels, and mobs intended for newbs, is not a good comparison, just re-roll a new character and see how quickly you mow through mobs of equal level compared to your higher level fighting mobs of his/her level.

Lctl.6198:

I have no problem with being more powerfull when downscaled.

What would be the point of lvling and gear then? Might aswell as remove levels and gear, and have people match the zones upon entering.

Part of the point of leveling is to gain access to more areas and thus more variety of adventures. You can play in more areas of the world without being instantly killed. Experience more of the story. Advance your crafting professions by more easily accessing advanced crafting resources. Expand your wealth. Etc.

If you’re looking a system where you can completely decimate anything that’s lower level than you in combat, then GW2 probably isn’t the game for you. This game was always supposed to be more about personal skill than gear. But if the gear/stats are allowing you to cut through lower level mobs like butter, than how does personal skill ever get the opportunity to matter? Every fight in this game is supposed to be a challenge, not just the ones that vastly out-class your character’s true level. Every fight, even the level 10 ones.

Lctl.6198:

I like to come back and feel slighty more powerful. The difference isnt that big, nor game breaking.

The problem is the difference is that big. While you are far from being immortal and unstoppable, you are also far from being just “slightly” more powerful. And I would argue that it can be game breaking. When difficult zone-events (that are supposed to be epic) are made trivial by the presence of higher level players who aren’t being scaled down nearly enough, that is game breaking from the perspective of the appropriate level player.

Lctl.6198:

Think the system is fine, even if sometimes it downscales me too much( makes me lvl6 against lvl 9/10 mobs. Oh joy :p).

That only happens when there are so many players present in an event that the difficulty of the event scales upwards. Even then, while you’re running around on a scaled down level 6 superhuman, imagine how the true level 6 players are faring against those same opponents.

Low level mobs can still kill me too, especially during events when I foolishly stick myself out in front of everyone and then take a dozen+ hits in the span of two seconds from the next wave of mobs that came streaming in. That has less to do with level scaling and more to do with playing foolishly.

It has EVERYHTING to do with scaling. What he was trying to say, is that when you scale down, the area is a still a threat to you. Whereas in other online games, if you are level 70 and go into a level 5 area, there is no danger.

Edge.4180:

Lctl.6198:

I have no problem with being more powerfull when downscaled.

What would be the point of lvling and gear then? Might aswell as remove levels and gear, and have people match the zones upon entering.

Part of the point of leveling is to gain access to more areas and thus more variety of adventures. You can play in more areas of the world without being instantly killed. Experience more of the story. Advance your crafting professions by more easily accessing advanced crafting resources. Expand your wealth. Etc.

If you’re looking a system where you can completely decimate anything that’s lower level than you in combat, then GW2 probably isn’t the game for you. This game was always supposed to be more about personal skill than gear. But if the gear/stats are allowing you to cut through lower level mobs like butter, than how does personal skill ever get the opportunity to matter? Every fight in this game is supposed to be a challenge, not just the ones that vastly out-class your character’s true level. Every fight, even the level 10 ones.

Lctl.6198:

I like to come back and feel slighty more powerful. The difference isnt that big, nor game breaking.

The problem is the difference is that big. While you are far from being immortal and unstoppable, you are also far from being just “slightly” more powerful. And I would argue that it can be game breaking. When difficult zone-events (that are supposed to be epic) are made trivial by the presence of higher level players who aren’t being scaled down nearly enough, that is game breaking from the perspective of the appropriate level player.

Lctl.6198:

Think the system is fine, even if sometimes it downscales me too much( makes me lvl6 against lvl 9/10 mobs. Oh joy :p).

That only happens when there are so many players present in an event that the difficulty of the event scales upwards. Even then, while you’re running around on a scaled down level 6 superhuman, imagine how the true level 6 players are faring against those same opponents.

I honestly think your overreacting on this . Sorry :/

Like i stated, i do feel slightly morr powerful, things die easier, but its not nearly a rotflolstomp. Far from it. I merely gave an example.

It was said above, later lvls mobs even out , making them harder, the first zones are just that, introductory zones.

Make no mistake, i love downscaling, i just believe the downscaling youre seeking makes no sense, even on a game like GW2. As it would remove the sense of lvling , gear( already downscaled to the top stats of the lvl youre downscaled to) and traits.

Traits. This is where your allowed to beef yourself up when downscaled, as you retain the traits ( at least the passives).

Note, this system is to help and attenuate playing with others without ruining THEIR experience. Its a bonus for higer lvls, and a blessing for lower lvls.

My lvl 80 character can go to low level zones and decimate everything around her. It works when your gear is not perfect and your only a few lvls above a zone. Once you max out though and are wearing all masterful or higher gear.. You make a mess of those mobs.

Jnaathra.6549:

My lvl 80 character can go to low level zones and decimate everything around her. It works when your gear is not perfect and your only a few lvls above a zone. Once you max out though and are wearing all masterful or higher gear.. You make a mess of those mobs.

^ This is pretty much my point. If anyone thinks I’m overstating the disparity, you haven’t tested extreme level differences yet.

For everyone else, now imagine you’re playing your level 80 character and your level 15 friend asks you to come spend the evening adventuring as part of his group. You’re counting on the scaling to adjust your level 80 character appropriately, but it fails to, and you’re almost single-handedly steamrolling everything. How is that working as intended? How is that not ruining the experience for your friend? While that is the norm in most any other MMO, I would call it game breaking in this game because the scaling was specifically put in place to prevent problems like this from happening.

If it’s not.. wouldn’t that be a broken mechanic in need of further tuning?

Jnaathra.6549:

My lvl 80 character can go to low level zones and decimate everything around her. It works when your gear is not perfect and your only a few lvls above a zone. Once you max out though and are wearing all masterful or higher gear.. You make a mess of those mobs.

Doesnt matter the gear.

Its the traits that remain.

Again, I strongly believe its fine as it is..

Lctl.6198:

Jnaathra.6549:

My lvl 80 character can go to low level zones and decimate everything around her. It works when your gear is not perfect and your only a few lvls above a zone. Once you max out though and are wearing all masterful or higher gear.. You make a mess of those mobs.

Doesnt matter the gear.

Its the traits that remain.

Again, I strongly believe its fine as it is..

Are you level 80? Are you decked out in decent gear?

I like the system as is. I haven’t noticed that I’m OP once I’m down-leveled with the exception that I think my crits hit much harder.

Jnaathra.6549:

Lctl.6198:

Jnaathra.6549:

My lvl 80 character can go to low level zones and decimate everything around her. It works when your gear is not perfect and your only a few lvls above a zone. Once you max out though and are wearing all masterful or higher gear.. You make a mess of those mobs.

Doesnt matter the gear.

Its the traits that remain.

Again, I strongly believe its fine as it is..

Are you level 80? Are you decked out in decent gear?

The gear stats is adjusted to lvl. That much works.

Read again what i posted.

Scaling needs to be made harsher. Its still too faceroll when down levelled, its not a challenge.