Guild Wars 2

darkace.8925:

I’ll say this again, because it seems to have gone over your head: if you’re not doing enough to tag a mob during Dynamic Events, that’s entirely -as in 100%- YOUR fault.

No, sorry, it may be your fault since you seem fanatically intent on supporting a flawed mechanic, but it most certainly is not mine. My build should be sufficient, I have enough damage to solo a vet mob, yet because of numbers beyond my control, put in place by a designer, I can’t even get kill credit if I’m playing alongside anyone else. I can’t count how many hundreds of times I have hit a mob with earth spike, and not received kill credit. Yet if I log in as my power warrior, one hit guarantees me kill credit and that hit is up and available more frequently. Not equal, not balanced.

darkace.8925:

Bleed-Thief A, “Hey guys. I noticed we have another thief in this party. Mind if I ask what kind of build you have?”
Bleed-Thief B, “I’m built to stack bleed.”
Bleed-Thief A, “So am I. There’s probably a bit too much overlap here. I’ll drop and look for another group so we’re not wasting a slot. Good luck.”
Bleed-Thief B, “You too.”

See how incredibly easy that is?

Good for you. Though I don’t see how tip-toeing around flaws rather than fixing them, just to salvage a wounded ego, is anything to be proud of. Though I will admit, it is easy, but I feel, if anything, sorry for people who take what’s easy over what’s correct.

darkace.8925:

Okay, what about all the other direct damage mitigation? Does blocking also block condition damage? Does dodging also evade condition damage? Can you stun a stack of Bleed? Can you knock down Burn? Can you outrun Poison? Can you blind Confusion?

Yes, you cannot apply more conditions during a block, the existing ones keep ticking. Dodging works the same as blocking. Yes and yes, you can remove them, far better than any temporary stun or knock down, they’re gone and your opponents damaging abilities are on there full CD rather than the partial interrupt CD. Yes, you can outrun any projectile or exceed the range of any spell which applies conditions. Yes actually, any projectile or spell which causes a condition will miss when blinded. To tell the truth, I’m not surprised in the slightest that you didn’t know any of that.

darkace.8925:

Do you really want me to answer that?

Rhetorical question Ace, I already know the answer is yes, you are.

Rennoko.5731:

And the problem is, while there is a stigma with certain classes (like necro/ranger/engineer),.

Err no this is a common misconception for engineers. Power Grenadier/Rifle (even Pistol) Engis are viable sustained damage since a lot of hard hitting skills have relatively short CD and you have access to like 6-8 of time and can be rotated at will. You even get a lot of healing support and access to loads of great CC, blinds and chill when built properly.

here’s a post I wrote on reddit to explain why the bleed cap is AWFUL

here’s some simple maths, say you hit for 1000, and there is a DoT that ticks for 100 damage per second for 10 seconds

these are applied to two identical bosses with 25k hp instantaneously by 25 warriors and 25 necros

after a single tick the total damage on the warrior boss is 25000, the total damage on the necromancer boss is 2500.

the warrior boss is instantly killed in one tick, the necromancer’s will die in another 9 seconds.

both are doing the exact same damage, but the DD boss will die instantly, but the condition boss will die later

think guillotine vs immolation, you end up dead, one just takes longer

HOWEVER, let’s scale this up a bit, now the bosses are 10 times stronger, so we add 10 times the number of players to the fight, we now have 2 bosses with 250k hp, 250 warriors doing 1k dps, and 250 necros doing 1k dps

you’d expect the result to be the same right? WRONG!

the warriors would do their 250k damage in a second like before, but the necros are limited by the cap, so they still only do 25k damage warrior boss dies instantly, necro boss takes 100 seconds (10 seconds for each stack of bleeds, 10 applications of 25 stacks would be required)

in that example, only 10% of the necros are doing ANY damage at all but all of the warriors are.

that is the reason bleed stacks are a fundamentally flawed idea

the problem is then compounded when we add other classes to the mix, if they are applying bleeds that hit for less than 100 dps, and they are the most recent bleed to hit the boss, that takes up a slot where a necro’s bleed could potentially go, actively LOWERING the dps of the condition boss

now think how many bleeds are applied unintentionally by classes that don’t stack cond damage, and you can see why it’s such a problem, that warrior hits for 900 and leaves a DoT for 100, giving 1k total, the necro hits for 100 but the DoT hits for 900 also giving 1k total, if the warrior hits first, the total damage is 1900 (900 necro DoT, 100 necro direct, 900 warrior direct, warrior DoT is overwritten by newer necro DoT) , if the necro hits first the total damage is 1100 (100 warrior DoT, 900 warrior direct, 100 necro direct, necro DoT is overwritten by warrior DoT)

THAT is where the problem comes in, stronger DoTs are being overwritten by weaker DoTs and pushing the whole groups total DPS down by a significant amount, and that’s on top of the limit that the cap itself applies

Calcifire.1864:

er, no…

where did you get that from?

The fact that if warriors can add bleeds cheaply it makes condition builds less useful.

I DESPISE that trait because it overwrites my beautiful 30 second bleeds. if there was no cap I’d love it because hey, more bleeds on the enemy.

that trait not only does hardly anything for the warrior, but it actually LOWERS my dps, remember how lupi used to attack minions summoned via our reanimator trait and cause wipes? that’s how necros feel about “bleed on crit” things used by classes that don’t stack CD

They shouldn’t, it should only add to it. If it’s true that’s a bug I can agree with you on but again, infinite stacks isn’t the answer. I lean much more heavily towards per-person stacks or some kind of dd, cd seesaw.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Rennoko.5731:

And the problem is, while there is a stigma with certain classes (like necro/ranger/engineer),.

Err no this is a common misconception for engineers. Power Grenadier/Rifle (even Pistol) Engis are viable sustained damage since a lot of hard hitting skills have relatively short CD and you have access to like 6-8 of time and can be rotated at will. You even get a lot of healing support and access to loads of great CC, blinds and chill when built properly.

there is still a stigma on engis in that they can do just about anything as well as any other class, but unless you play EXTREMELY well, you’ll be just scraping average. their skill cap is massively high and the sheer number of players that are competent at playing one is much greater than the amount that excel

Khal Drogo.9631:

Rennoko.5731:

And the problem is, while there is a stigma with certain classes (like necro/ranger/engineer),.

Err no this is a common misconception for engineers. Power Grenadier/Rifle (even Pistol) Engis are viable sustained damage since a lot of hard hitting skills have relatively short CD and you have access to like 6-8 of time and can be rotated at will. You even get a lot of healing support and access to loads of great CC, blinds and chill when built properly.

The point was the stigma is wrong, but in the case of bleed stacking versions of those classes, the stigma is correct. Not talking about support/heals/additional effects. This is in reference to damage dealt when partied with another condition based damaging hero. Not going into an UP/OP discussion on classes, as that is a dead horse… not that this isn’t becoming that.

What about Confusion? Are you guys aware how bad it is compared to power builds in pve? You increased damage since betas but this is far from being enough because if you’re running full Rabid set with confusion as your main damage you’re much more useless than a power based Mez.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

Look again at the imbalance please. In a dungeon party people clamor for multiple Warriors/Guardians and such. Why because Direct Damage is an easy method over Condition Damage. This means that if you are a Direct Damage person there is no reason to not pick you over a Condition Damage person.

I would say that’s a combination of high the soldier’s high survivability and poor dungeon design. Had explorable-mode dungeons been better designed, they’d have elements to encourage more thought than “zerg it with a warrior/guardian”.

Rennoko.5731:

So you create a scenario where hybrid builds are better than zerker builds? How is that a bad thing? Why is it okay now for zerker builds to be the best damage, while taking power/condition/precision is sub par? They are both FULLY offensive builds… with no defensives stats, why should one be better than the other?

“Fully offensive”? So a condition-based character with a few snares can’t apply conditions and defensively kite while his conditions whittle down his target?

Calcifire.1864:

ah, ahah, AHAHAHAHAH

do you know how much direct damage my scepter hits do?

Name one, just ONE, open world Dynamic Event in which participation credit is impossible with a condition-spec’d, scepter-wielding character.

DarksunG.9537:

Calcifire.1864:

er, no…

where did you get that from?

The fact that if warriors can add bleeds cheaply it makes condition builds less useful.

I DESPISE that trait because it overwrites my beautiful 30 second bleeds. if there was no cap I’d love it because hey, more bleeds on the enemy.

that trait not only does hardly anything for the warrior, but it actually LOWERS my dps, remember how lupi used to attack minions summoned via our reanimator trait and cause wipes? that’s how necros feel about “bleed on crit” things used by classes that don’t stack CD

They shouldn’t, it should only add to it. If it’s true that’s a bug I can agree with you on but again, infinite stacks isn’t the answer. I lean much more heavily towards per-person stacks or some kind of dd, cd seesaw.

If the way the game mechanics work in all cases and across all classes is a “bug”, then I am more than happy to be the first to bow down to the powers that be. The mechanic for bleeds is first in first out, like all conditions. There is no priority system. Crap bleeds, awesome bleeds, whatever; it is all about which was applied last, and how full the stack is or how long the last duration is.

DarksunG.9537:

Calcifire.1864:

er, no…

where did you get that from?

The fact that if warriors can add bleeds cheaply it makes condition builds less useful.

I DESPISE that trait because it overwrites my beautiful 30 second bleeds. if there was no cap I’d love it because hey, more bleeds on the enemy.

that trait not only does hardly anything for the warrior, but it actually LOWERS my dps, remember how lupi used to attack minions summoned via our reanimator trait and cause wipes? that’s how necros feel about “bleed on crit” things used by classes that don’t stack CD

They shouldn’t, it should only add to it. If it’s true that’s a bug I can agree with you on but again, infinite stacks isn’t the answer. I lean much more heavily towards per-person stacks or some kind of dd, cd seesaw.

and that’s where the problem with bleeds come in, they work by reaching the cap, and any new bleeds will overwrite the oldest ones regardless of duration and power of either the old and the new one.

you’re thinking of things like burning, poison, and regen, where the oldest one and its owners CDmg is used until it’s duration runs out, then the next oldest starts ticking with ITS owners CDmg and so on, with newer ones just added to the end with a label saying “use this person’s CDmg for this amount of time”

at the moment, a tiny bleed will knock off a huge one, and that’s why this has become such a big issue

infinite stacks, personal stacks, I don’t think any condition user would care as long as they stop conflicting with each other (honestly, it’s rare that a single cond user would hit 25 bleeds and sustain it for long on their own, so personal stacks would work fine).

Sokar Rostau.7316:

Could another solution lie in the idea of a haemorrage, without changing everything? Once the subject has 25 stacks, the 26th then removes all current stacks and replaces them with a haemorrage debuff which itself can stack up to 25 times. Each haemorrage makes the target 1-2% weaker to Bleeds. Since the haemorrage isn’t actually applying direct damage nobody gets penalised by missing out on applying their damage to the stack. Come to think of it the opposite would happen because everyone would be doing slightly more damage and even those piddly little double digit one second Bleeds would be welcomed. The same idea could be applied to Burning and Poison.

Yes! Now this I like!

Basically, the “hemorrhage” effect is an upgrade of a previous condition, turning a burn effect into a burn 2.0, if you will. I really like this idea, it would really promote condition players to work together, rather than having players compete for the top conditions and thus making other conditioners obsolete.

I will say, however, that I feel that one players shouldn’t be able to reach said hemorrhage effect. Two players, if they’re really on top of their condition build, maybe. Three and more, sure. This effect should be sole for group lay, and I think it will be a brilliant way for groups of players to really push the boundaries of what conditions can achieve.

darkace.8925:

Rennoko.5731:

So you create a scenario where hybrid builds are better than zerker builds? How is that a bad thing? Why is it okay now for zerker builds to be the best damage, while taking power/condition/precision is sub par? They are both FULLY offensive builds… with no defensives stats, why should one be better than the other?

“Fully offensive”? So a condition-based character with a few snares can’t apply conditions and defensively kite while his conditions whittle down his target?

Fully offensive is in reference to the stats. POWER/PREC/CONDITION (no defensive stats), POWER/PREC/CRIT (no defensive stats).

I can run zerker gear with 30 points in the toughness tree, that isn’t my point. My point is you can run the same “glassyness” with condition damage and not come anywhere close the same reward for your risk.

JonPeters.5630:

Actually this is not true and is something we are actively looking at. We have a number of solutions that we are talking about and when we are able to figure out which one will have the least impact on balance, performance, and testing we will put that solution in place as soon as possible.

Jon

If I might make a suggestion, what if bleeding was a single-stack condition like burning and poison, but bleeding grows progressively stronger every second a target suffers from it? Theoretically speaking, wouldn’t that be similar to the current bleed mechanics and allow multiple bleeders to be less redundant? Bleeding seems to be the only problem condition, as Confusion very rarely hits 25 stacks and Vulnerability benefits everyone’s direct damage.

If you have the technology to program it, you could even give everyone their own individual stack of this new bleeding, completely removing redundancy between bleeders.

My apologies if this isn’t a viable option. Just trying to help. I appreciate what the developers are doing and understand that there is a lot of community pressure right now.

darkace.8925:

Calcifire.1864:

ah, ahah, AHAHAHAHAH

do you know how much direct damage my scepter hits do?

Name one, just ONE, open world Dynamic Event in which participation credit is impossible with a condition-spec’d, scepter-wielding character.

very few, but it’s easy to get on the participation credit table, I can get gold on plinx’s champ abom without doing enough dmg to even apply for xp credit

and I’m not saying we’re completely useless at the bleed cap, but our dps will suffer massively, any more than 2 bleed users and any more bleeders will not contribute to DPS other than their pitiful DD

ooh, I have an idea, in the south of brisban wildlands in a lake near the sylvari area there is an event called “The Unseen Hunter” where you fight a largos that is literally immune to all conditions, fight it as a DD warrior, then fight it as a condition necro (hell, fight it as a DD necro if you want)

it is soloable as a DD user (I’ve done it on my mesmer), but nearly impossible as a scepter wielding necro, I’d reccomend anyone who has doubts as to how important this is for a condition class to try it, and you’ll see just how bad it can be for a class that relies on bleeds but can’t apply any

Conncept.7638:

Yes, you cannot apply more conditions during a block, the existing ones keep ticking. Dodging works the same as blocking. Yes and yes, you can remove them, far better than any temporary stun or knock down, they’re gone and your opponents damaging abilities are on there full CD rather than the partial interrupt CD. Yes, you can outrun any projectile or exceed the range of any spell which applies conditions. Yes actually, any projectile or spell which causes a condition will miss when blinded. To tell the truth, I’m not surprised in the slightest that you didn’t know any of that.

You know full well we’re talking about conditions that have already been applied, and yet you feign obtuseness by pointing out the obvious that blocking blocks, dodging dodges, and attacks can be outrun. And then you follow it up with this…

Conncept.7638:

Rhetorical question Ace, I already know the answer is yes, you are acting childish.

And with that, I’m going to wash my hands clean of you. Adieu.

darkace.8925:

Conncept.7638:

Yes, you cannot apply more conditions during a block, the existing ones keep ticking. Dodging works the same as blocking. Yes and yes, you can remove them, far better than any temporary stun or knock down, they’re gone and your opponents damaging abilities are on there full CD rather than the partial interrupt CD. Yes, you can outrun any projectile or exceed the range of any spell which applies conditions. Yes actually, any projectile or spell which causes a condition will miss when blinded. To tell the truth, I’m not surprised in the slightest that you didn’t know any of that.

You know full well we’re talking about conditions that have already been applied, and yet you feign obtuseness by pointing out the obvious that blocking blocks, dodging dodges, and attacks can be outrun. And then you follow it up with this…

Conncept.7638:

Rhetorical question Ace, I already know the answer is yes, you are acting childish.

And with that, I’m going to wash my hands clean of you. Adieu.

if you don’t avoid the attack that applies the condition you have no right to complain about the condition, just as you have no right to complain when you die after standing in a warrior’s 100 blades. there is no condition applying attack that is unavoidable and unlike with DD, you can remove the condition damage with cond removals and heals (unlike DD which can only be removed by heals). the condition isn’t an effect of the attack, it IS the attack, think of it as a very slow sword swing

Rennoko.5731:

Theplayboy.6417:

Rennoko.5731:

wintermute.4096:

Theplayboy.6417:

The issue is big because of PvP. Condition Necro’s and Trap Rangers are a huge part of the meta at the moment. If conditions get buffed and are tracked independently the name of the game will have to change to Condition Wars instead of Guild Wars. All of the sPvP and WvWvW Fights will come down to who can apply the most conditions the fastest.

The best way to handle conditions and it’s effects in MMO was already in place in Guild Wars 1. Why fix something that isn’t broken? I understand they wanted to “innovate” but they literally went backwards in this area.

Uhm… no? How often do you see people in pvp with 25 stacks of bleed? Granted, the attackers know that it would be pointless to stack them higher, but it wouldn’t actually change that much in pvp, while greatly improving the pve part of the game.

Yeah this made me laugh a little too. If the meta shifts to people stacking condition builds, then people will just start to carry around more condition clears, pushing the meta back the other way. You have ways of dealing with condition spam builds in sPVP, just like you have ways of dealing with zerker builds.

The issue is PVE, not PVP.

Ahhh PvE’rs. I forgot who i was dealing with, forgive me. It’s apparent that neither of you spend much time in Tournament matches in sPvP (if any). The point isn’t to stack 25 bleeds on someone. Setting a single condition on them isn’t going to do anything because unlike PvE the enemy can actually think and react. Thus, you put one condition on them and they’ll use a skill to remove it or send it back to you. It’s very easy to deal with one condition. The point of a condition build and what is currently being run by Trap Rangers and Condition Necro’s is to literally dump as many conditions as you can on the enemy can keep them coming on. It’s a high pressure build in which you apply as many as you can on the enemy and keep applying them until the enemy is overwhelmed. Since there is no official Healer class the only person in charge of removing conditions from you is you. Nobody cares that you’re blind, chilled, poisoned, bleeding, vulnerable, weakened, crippled, and/or confused. It’s up to you to remove all of those conditions.

I understand that from your PvE experience you think it may be as simple as just using a skill to get rid of a condition when it’s placed on you but it’s not. However, in your defense most of the people playing tournament sPvP are already running at least 1 condition removal utility and bunkers are usually running 2. However, we have only 3 utility slots and these skills have longer cool downs then skills that the enemy is using to apply the conditions. On top of that the game is based on the Capture Point method. Thus, you have to be on the point in order to capture it or keep it from getting captured. So Anet is forcing people to fight over 3 tiny pieces of geography. So if you want to win it’s not as if you can just back up away from the red circles all the time. Often times you have to fight through it all and the only Capture Point big enough to kite around on is the Graveyard.

I am okay with a separate PvE vs PvP split for Conditions and how they’re applied but I think it would confuse newer players and frustrate PvE’rs as they attempt to tackle more challenging enemies than can found in the PvE world.

I feel so type-casted as a PVE’er… but I actually mainly play WvW, which I guess you could consider PVEish…

Not sure what you are arguing? The post and subsequent discussion was about the problem that arises with condition based heros when there are MULTIPLE sources of longer lasting poison/burn skills, and over 25 stacks of bleeding.

Fixing the max stack bleeding problem has nothing to do with sPVP and arguably nothing to with WvW (extreme cases of Epidemic aside). How many times do you find yourself with 25 stacks of bleed in spvp? This discussion was about the DPS loss at at that point.

What does changing the 25 stack limit to 50 have anything to do with Spvp? Or changing the priority system of the stack?

Okay I’m board with you. Do anything you want in PvE and make it so everyone contributes their fair no matter whether they are direct damage or condy damage. Just please don’t make it too powerful in sPvP. It will completely take over (it’s already starting to actually).

I see this as begging for mechanical depth in a vapid combat system. It wouldnt be a problem if roles were more defined. No one took a necro in a GW1 pvp group for poison. They took a ranger. The simple fact is that ArenaNet homogenized the classes, skills, and mechanics so there is very little depth in role specialization. If this wasnt the case, then we’d see more use for the condition system as well as actually grouping with people. As i see it now, people are just asking for more depth to mechanics that will just never exist. The game is inherently casual, watered down and simplified by design. It’s working as intended. All the different skill effects and concrete specialization offered in the skill system in GW1 was why roles mattered, here it just doesnt because anyone can do anything…some just do it worse.

Theplayboy.6417:

Rennoko.5731:

Theplayboy.6417:

Rennoko.5731:

wintermute.4096:

Uhm… no? How often do you see people in pvp with 25 stacks of bleed? Granted, the attackers know that it would be pointless to stack them higher, but it wouldn’t actually change that much in pvp, while greatly improving the pve part of the game.

Yeah this made me laugh a little too. If the meta shifts to people stacking condition builds, then people will just start to carry around more condition clears, pushing the meta back the other way. You have ways of dealing with condition spam builds in sPVP, just like you have ways of dealing with zerker builds.

The issue is PVE, not PVP.

Ahhh PvE’rs. I forgot who i was dealing with, forgive me. It’s apparent that neither of you spend much time in Tournament matches in sPvP (if any). The point isn’t to stack 25 bleeds on someone. Setting a single condition on them isn’t going to do anything because unlike PvE the enemy can actually think and react. Thus, you put one condition on them and they’ll use a skill to remove it or send it back to you. It’s very easy to deal with one condition. The point of a condition build and what is currently being run by Trap Rangers and Condition Necro’s is to literally dump as many conditions as you can on the enemy can keep them coming on. It’s a high pressure build in which you apply as many as you can on the enemy and keep applying them until the enemy is overwhelmed. Since there is no official Healer class the only person in charge of removing conditions from you is you. Nobody cares that you’re blind, chilled, poisoned, bleeding, vulnerable, weakened, crippled, and/or confused. It’s up to you to remove all of those conditions.

I understand that from your PvE experience you think it may be as simple as just using a skill to get rid of a condition when it’s placed on you but it’s not. However, in your defense most of the people playing tournament sPvP are already running at least 1 condition removal utility and bunkers are usually running 2. However, we have only 3 utility slots and these skills have longer cool downs then skills that the enemy is using to apply the conditions. On top of that the game is based on the Capture Point method. Thus, you have to be on the point in order to capture it or keep it from getting captured. So Anet is forcing people to fight over 3 tiny pieces of geography. So if you want to win it’s not as if you can just back up away from the red circles all the time. Often times you have to fight through it all and the only Capture Point big enough to kite around on is the Graveyard.

I am okay with a separate PvE vs PvP split for Conditions and how they’re applied but I think it would confuse newer players and frustrate PvE’rs as they attempt to tackle more challenging enemies than can found in the PvE world.

I feel so type-casted as a PVE’er… but I actually mainly play WvW, which I guess you could consider PVEish…

Not sure what you are arguing? The post and subsequent discussion was about the problem that arises with condition based heros when there are MULTIPLE sources of longer lasting poison/burn skills, and over 25 stacks of bleeding.

Fixing the max stack bleeding problem has nothing to do with sPVP and arguably nothing to with WvW (extreme cases of Epidemic aside). How many times do you find yourself with 25 stacks of bleed in spvp? This discussion was about the DPS loss at at that point.

What does changing the 25 stack limit to 50 have anything to do with Spvp? Or changing the priority system of the stack?

Okay I’m board with you. Do anything you want in PvE and make it so everyone contributes their fair no matter whether they are direct damage or condy damage. Just please don’t make it too powerful in sPvP. It will completely take over (it’s already starting to actually).

if you have 25 stacks of bleed with no condition removal, you’re probably already dead anyway, no class could keep up more than 25 on their own anyway, so it’s not like a necro will unload all the bleeds in tyria on you (hell, bursting I have trouble keeping up 15…)

think of it this way, if it was a warrior doing the same damage, you’d be instadead, at least the conditions give you a stay of execution to cleanse or enact your revenge :P

darkace.8925:

Conncept.7638:

Yes, you cannot apply more conditions during a block, the existing ones keep ticking. Dodging works the same as blocking. Yes and yes, you can remove them, far better than any temporary stun or knock down, they’re gone and your opponents damaging abilities are on there full CD rather than the partial interrupt CD. Yes, you can outrun any projectile or exceed the range of any spell which applies conditions. Yes actually, any projectile or spell which causes a condition will miss when blinded. To tell the truth, I’m not surprised in the slightest that you didn’t know any of that.

You know full well we’re talking about conditions that have already been applied, and yet you feign obtuseness by pointing out the obvious that blocking blocks, dodging dodges, and attacks can be outrun. And then you follow it up with this…

Conncept.7638:

Rhetorical question Ace, I already know the answer is yes, you are acting childish.

And with that, I’m going to wash my hands clean of you. Adieu.

Conditions need time to build up the damage while Direct Damage hits like a ton of bricks. Yes 1 hit may be blocked or dodged or outrun but the next will hit hard. The condition that is on the target meanwhile can dodge future applications, can block future ones which again reduces the same amount of damage as it needs to apply to do it’s damage. The ones on it are still catching up in damage on the potential of each Direct Damage hit. Blocking has the same effect on both in the long run, so does dodging, so does outrunning. It has to hit in order to put it’s long duration smaller damage on you.

Hence the reason you dodge it, block it and out run it. Or do you stand in fires, condition wells, and other effects?

That thread doesn’t want to be closed? Naughty thread! ^^

:O

the sheer amount of necros in this thread has brought it back to life!

IT IS A SIGN!