Guild Wars 2

hybrid.5027:

The best warrior and engineer condition damage builds with the same party buffs will produce about 8-9k DPS once they have reached their maximum average condition output. Simply put, they don’t compare favorably in terms of DPS.

You’re right if you mean pure condition builds. But you should consider that some hybrid builds like this one can deal more damage than everything else:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqSXHxSeF17ICoH1HghXiK8Yfe8WsFEC-ToAg1CqIKSBjDGTRSfs+MqYGA
(don’t look at pvp gear, i was too lazy to set every piece of pve gear, just use rampager’s)
This build has very high raw dmg output and at the same time you can nearly always keep burning, poison, and 20-25 bleed stacks.

(10)-f3-p4-7-9-g2-g5-g4-g1, then f3>g2>g4>g1 and use p4 and g5 to keep burning and poison ticking, use 7 only with 9 if you don’t have anyone who stacks fury.
If you’re the one who made tests – check this build, you will be surprised. Of course with might-fury-etc. stacking friend so you will have exactly the same amount of might and fury to compare it with with other builds.

I also request proofs of measures.

The best way to buff condition would still be raising the caps based on NPC rank.

Everything suggested above will screw pvp and turn decent pvp condition builds into stupid op crap.

well they buffed confusion damage , so i’d suggest the same for the other condi stats but not 33% , increase the base per tick per bleed/poison/fear ect.

each condi boosted by a different amount , 100+ bleed damage per stack (this is based on 2000 points into condi damage) that is Poor 2000 points and it only increases the base bleed by 100 points (then you factor in duration the average duration is 20% + 45%runes(e.g krait) in pvp= 70% total) so that 100 damage is improved to 165ish with a 70% longer duration to deal that damage , its short term damage Is extremely poor so increasing the Base per bleed damage will improve its short term damage, but then it will effect its longer term scaling.

in active fights or bosses with -33% durations ect the condis never reach the time or duration limit to get that extra damage, so it only deals 50% of its damage if lucky where direct has no restrictions (and putting a psyhical damage resistance on a boss won’t solve a thing)

they need to improve the base damage on other condis just like they did with confusion of course keeping it reasonable so the Max duration end is not too overpowering (if not cleansed) though most condis are Cleansed when they reach higher stacks in the first place preventing the longer term damage.

in the end the Short term damage is poor compaired to Direct dps , boosting the base condi damage per condi type on a individual basis will improve condi damage for those types of fights (for those players that have kitted Full condis) though i guess the reason they added -33% durations ect is because power(charaters) + full condi Charaters could burn down a target so fast it needed some form of resistance.

but for the choice back to the basics power has more base stat than condi giving power a advantage in the short term but condi has only near equal power for the longer term.

on the other end of the scale i think condis could be stronger than power If left unattented , but the short term damage of condis is currently too weak since they ether end there durations too quickly due to -33% (reducing there damage massively) or they are cleansed promptly avoiding the damage entirely.

really ennoying but thats how it is atm might or no might power will always have a short duration stat boost of 800-900 base leaving condi in the dirt for short term use.
so the base short term condis need to be boosted but not too much that it breaks there Max scaled damage , though the max scaled damage need to be stronger than power stat attacks because thats the investment you should get for not cleansing a 22sec bleed stacks or confusions.

for spvp if this method dont work they can just make condi clears more effective or allow more condi clears on regualr use or even move some Condi clears to Master traits talking about you empathic bond! .

so hard to balance compaired to power where you can just up or lower the damage .

Let’s hope we get some of these changes in HoT. Especially the “flat damage increase affects conditions” and “vulnerability affects condition damage”.

Bernie.8674:

Faux.1937:

A dungeon taking 5 minute compare to 6 minute your completely right. I do Speed clears but I dont do the crazy portal tactics and I still want to goof around with my friends. But I dont want to spend 15-20min in one that I know I can do in 7min.

This unreasonable expectation is the reason there is even a meta for this game. Faux’s attitude isn’t even extreme by this game’s standards, but as a long-time WoW player I’m amazed that it’s so prevalent. In WoW a 5 minute queue just to get into an instance was amazing. After that, with a decent group you could expect a quick 20 minute run. 45 minutes to an hour wasn’t entirely unexpected. When Cataclysm first dropped, completing a dungeon at all without swapping out members every fight was considered an accomplishment. Under the LFR system, a 45 minute run is considered pretty efficient. I remember spending 4 hours at a time in LFR trying to grind out gear when new raids dropped.

The fact that players still find a situation in which non-optimal pugs can complete runs in about 20 minutes to be unacceptable is astounding. Back in the day, I remember a MMO fan who facetiously created a browser-based game in which your character was granted gear for simply repeatedly clicking a single button as fast as possible. I’m beginning to think that even this wouldn’t satisfy some players.

This is honestly why I think that vertical gear progression is so bad for the game. In GW1 we ascended through the storyline and were instantly awarded our ultimate end-game gear. After that we could enjoy new skins and/or achievements to our hearts’ content. I spent many an hour in the Underworld and/or the deeps just happy to participate in content that required serious coordination and/or know-how simply to complete. I don’t remember anyone ever complaining that class X simply wasn’t putting out enough damage to take down boss Y in 30 seconds. We were just glad to get the horsemen down without a full wipe. On the other hand, those who were simply in it for the phat lootz had the option to spec smite monk and repeatedly solo the first portion of underworld for their ludicrous greens. They could live in their elite world of loot while the rest of us enjoyed our slow-paced albeit challenging content without being ostracized for failing to kill all bosses in under a minute. The game felt like an adventure rather than like a box to tick off the to-do list before the night’s end.

I was saying, Even if Condi was meta I’d do condi, Im the type of person that ALWAYS does BIS. When I played WoW I did.. BIS always. I went on forums I saw other rotations, I learned how to do more damage (I was always DPS I cant stand Healing/tanking).

Doesnt matter what is viable I will do Best In Slot.

My attitude isnt mean/elite etc.. Its how I play ALL games, Its how I have fun, I dont yell at other to go zerk for there Fun, Do Nomads for all I care…

But thats why I joined a Zerk dungeon guild, so I can be with pl I like to play with, Others can join w.e guild they want and play how they want.

In short: PvP

There is one thing that in HoT plans can also hurt viablity of condition dmg (in PvE). Dev suggested there will be mastery that allow to lower armor of husk (striping down bark of enemy), so even in these rare occasions where condi are required/ preferred (SW Husk, Triple Troubles) direct dmg will also be better option…

not all classes can spam conditions , not all classes have all conditions available (guardians have burning only, warriors work with bleeds and maybe some confusion…engineer tho has bleed,burning,poison and confusion )

That being said i found my self using not sinister but rampager (same stat combo, but this one mains on precision more)
Its a cheaper and faster solution and some classes such as warriors or guardians benefit more from crit hits rather than pure condi damage.

When you are alone or when you are with a small group your rampager youll do both good damage via normal hits (as you often crit hit) and your condition deals a great amount of damage as well.

Another thing that i noticed is that my rampager condi build was more efficient on stronger monsters such as veterans and champions as i was able to stack and maintain a larger amount of bleeds on the target making my bleed deal over 1500dmg per tick.

compared to the usual 700-900 (1200 with burst skills) per tick on normal mobs it does look lacking.

however when it comes to stronger monsters and champions there is usually a large group of players overlaping your own conditions….

I have to wonder if their system could handle having another DoT status type. They managed to add Torment and filter it into several weapon sets, so that could be an option versus raising condition caps for stuff like bleeding.

Of course, a solution like that would have WvW/PvP implications with condi cleansing and condition builds already being suitably powerful there.

Spvp and WvW are much higher priority than dungeons balance. Stuff like making more stacks but reducing its durations would be a huge buff to condi roamers and builds like a fearmancer. Bleeding bursting faster equals less time for people to clear them before they do serious dmg.

Buffing condition coefficient is madness. I would reroll back to a fearmancer in spvp if that happens. P/d thieves and other perplexity builds would become god mode in roaming. Again the problem is not condis is the direct dmg. Maybe putting a cap at the maximung bouns you can get to direct dmg would help it. Make like a cap at 25-30. Or rework those flat %dmg traits into something more useful for spvp/wvw.

Instead of buffing condis we just need a nerf to direct dmg or make bosses more resistant to it. And less randon condi application on crit/hit from minor traits.

xDudisx.5914:

Spvp and WvW are much higher priority than dungeons balance. Stuff like making more stacks but reducing its durations would be a huge buff to condi roamers and builds like a fearmancer. Bleeding bursting faster equals less time for people to clear them before they do serious dmg.

Buffing condition coefficient is madness. I would reroll back to a fearmancer in spvp if that happens. P/d thieves and other perplexity builds would become god mode in roaming. Again the problem is not condis is the direct dmg. Maybe putting a cap at the maximung bouns you can get to direct dmg would help it. Make like a cap at 25-30. Or rework those flat %dmg traits into something more useful for spvp/wvw.

Instead of buffing condis we just need a nerf to direct dmg or make bosses more resistant to it. And less randon condi application on crit/hit from minor traits.

While I’d like to see a general armor/toughness buff on monsters across the board (with proportionally less HP), that still doesn’t solve the condition stacking issue. It’d certainly be a step in the right direction, though.

Traits like:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precise_Strikes

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barbed_Precision

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharper_Images

Shouldn’t be minor traits and so easily obtained. This is giving even direct dmg builds a lot of bleeding. We need something more generic as minor trait and maybe merge this condition on crit with other condi build traits.

Some skills that have multiple hits also shouldn’t apply bleed. Like ice bow #4. Maybe change that for vulnerability.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ice_Storm

The problem is largely due to the encounter design in dungeons. No other game with healthy pve allows such a sad state of combat where you can just skip 80% if not 100% of boss mechanics by just outdamaging the scripts and skipping phases.

Boss hp should be increased across the board so that they don’t die in 20 seconds if the encounter is supposed to take 3 or 5 minutes or something.

This is not primarily a condition problem, of course, but the pressure to bring max dps in order to skip as much of the actual content like boss mechanics is overwhelming and opposed to condition builds as a whole.

Cuddy.6247:

DemonforLife.8546:

i’m gonna explain it to you real easely, this game’s balance is based around PvP, where condition damage is on a very good spot

Yeah, condition damage is good in this game. I think the OP is just way off the mark. It’s not about condition damage, it’s about the enemies that we fight in PvE that makes condition damage bad. Change the enemy mechanics, and you’ll improve the functionality of condition damage – because it’s good enough, there’s no need to buff condition damage on the sole needs of PvE when a more ideal solution is improving encounters.

I agree. All that is needed is that these bosses need more tactics that make condition a viable option. Simply making builds personal rather than situational.

Aniltiger.9186:

Cuddy.6247:

DemonforLife.8546:

i’m gonna explain it to you real easely, this game’s balance is based around PvP, where condition damage is on a very good spot

Yeah, condition damage is good in this game. I think the OP is just way off the mark. It’s not about condition damage, it’s about the enemies that we fight in PvE that makes condition damage bad. Change the enemy mechanics, and you’ll improve the functionality of condition damage – because it’s good enough, there’s no need to buff condition damage on the sole needs of PvE when a more ideal solution is improving encounters.

I agree. All that is needed is that these bosses need more tactics that make condition a viable option. Simply making builds personal rather than situational.

Hi Lich King, Nice necro.

But to react:
HOT Increased Bleeding Stacks…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Increased-Bleeding-Stacks/page/3#post4942022

Stacks have been seen up to 70+ and were reported overflowing at 100…
This combined with a full condi dmg rework might make 4-5 condition users in 1 part work. Now we only need actual dmg to be better then DPS…. this could be achieved in minimally speaking 2 ways:

1 non damaging overflowing dmg shouldn’t exist, any tick made should proc something.
2 toughness should be adjusted for dps encounters,