Guild Wars 2

Ok so you have a lawn to be cut, you figure the jobs worth about $20 in labour, so you hire the local lawn cutting kid who agrees on the price.

You look out your window and notice the kid has brought a few of his buddies to help him. What a smart little bugger you say to yourself as you watch them do your lawn in no time. Then.

They all come up to your door, each one demanding to paid $20. Wait what? Just because you brought help doesnt mean I should have to pay everyone. The job was worth $20, if you wanted help then its up to you to pay your help, not me.

So why, does this game pay everyone the same? Why does everyone get the same amount of loot? And why do guys who dont need people cant make more than people who need help? seems unnatural…

Because this is a game, not a job.

Why doesn’t tiger woods get a handicap when playing golf?
Why doesn’t Kasparov play with 7 queens?
Why doesn’t Usain Bolt get a Segway?
Why doesn’t Tom Boonen get a motorcycle?
Why doesn’t Michael Jordan get a larger basket?
Why doesn’t Real Madrid have 20 people on the field?
Why doesn’t Idra start at Lair tech?
Why doesn’t SK Gaming start with AWP?

These are all people and teams who spent the most time of everyone in their respective games. They all play by the same rules as me.

bigtime.7410:

Why do guys who dont need people cant make more than people who need help?

If you ask me, this is the real motivation behind the thread. You want more for not needing help. I suggest looking at it from the perspective of your example, if a bunch of kids shared a $20 job and EACH got $20, then the person offering the job must have been a pretty generous person! Right? Everyone gets equal pay, nothing got divided up.

If you do a $20 job on your own, you still get paid $20.

Because the way other MMOs are structured sucks. Because in most MMOs when you see someone in the area you’re playing, you’re immediately thinking, great, they’re going to tag my mob, or steal my kill, and then I’ll have to wait for the boss to respawn. Or they’re going to steal my node.

Guild Wars 2 solved that problem. I never look around and think, man there’s another guy, I hope he goes away. And you know, that’s not a bad thing for an MMO.

Silver.8023:

bigtime.7410:

Why do guys who dont need people cant make more than people who need help?

If you ask me, this is the real motivation behind the thread. You want more for not needing help. I suggest looking at it from the perspective of your example, if a bunch of kids shared a $20 job and EACH got $20, then the person offering the job must have been a pretty generous person! Right? Everyone gets equal pay, nothing got divided up.

If you do a $20 job on your own, you still get paid $20.

Your not making any sense to me, what are you saying?

And that is exactly the motivation behind this thread, people who need help shouldnt be paid as much as people who dont. Its only natural as my example shows.

This game doesn’t pay everyone the same. It pays people using a random number generator. You and your friends can all run Fractals 10 and only one person get an ascended ring (instead of everyone on the team, you all did the same amount of work after all).

You and I can each shove 40 greatswords into the mystic toilet, and one of us might get a legendary precursor. It’s not guaranteed, and the rewards for both us two would not be the same.

You and I can go farm loadstone drops and there’s no guarantee we’ll both get the same number of stones.

There is no “everyone paid the same”. I think you’re sour grapes about something — because if you thought about your post for more than 5 minutes you’d see how nonsensical it is.

If I could generate money out of thin air, just as the loot in this game in generated, I would gladly give all those kids $20.

bigtime.7410:

Your not making any sense to me, what are you saying?

Exactly!

As usual.

It might be natural, but this is a game. It’s supposed to make fun.
Is it fun to get less when you ask your friends/ guild to help you?
If you want to do everything solo, why do you play an MMORPG?
Play a single-player game if you want to, don’t try to ruin the fun for everyone else.

peterpat.8196:

It might be natural, but this is a game. It’s supposed to make fun.
Is it fun to get less when you ask your friends/ guild to help you?
If you want to do everything solo, why do you play an MMORPG?
Play a single-player game if you want to, don’t try to ruin the fun for everyone else.

Its not fun. You dont know what fun is, you think if everyone gets everything itll all be fun, its not. The fun comes from having more than someone else. Wether you know it or not, thats whats going on if you were honest about it. Obviously you dont know whats going on if you think everyone having everything is going to be fun for everyone.

bigtime.7410:

peterpat.8196:

It might be natural, but this is a game. It’s supposed to make fun.
Is it fun to get less when you ask your friends/ guild to help you?
If you want to do everything solo, why do you play an MMORPG?
Play a single-player game if you want to, don’t try to ruin the fun for everyone else.

Its not fun. You dont know what fun is, you think if everyone gets everything itll all be fun, its not. The fun comes from having more than someone else. Wether you know it or not, thats whats going on if you were honest about it. Obviously you dont know whats going on if you think everyone having everything is going to be fun for everyone.

Holy elitist Bat man!

Besides, what do you really care what other people have in this game? Does it really affect your game play?

you know you get better loot when you are in a party right? – at least I do.
And you get more influence if you play with other guildies?
This game is about co-operation, it is part of the basic design of the game.

You seem to want to be a special snowflake because you solo some stuff-
Just so you know not everyone gets their kicks from having more than other people- in fact I don’t actually know what to say to that because the whole concept kinda blows my mind.

So OP are you saying because I can’t solo an event in Orr and need several other people to help, like one of the temples, then I should get less loot because I needed help?

bigtime.7410:

peterpat.8196:

It might be natural, but this is a game. It’s supposed to make fun.
Is it fun to get less when you ask your friends/ guild to help you?
If you want to do everything solo, why do you play an MMORPG?
Play a single-player game if you want to, don’t try to ruin the fun for everyone else.

Its not fun. You dont know what fun is, you think if everyone gets everything itll all be fun, its not. The fun comes from having more than someone else. Wether you know it or not, thats whats going on if you were honest about it. Obviously you dont know whats going on if you think everyone having everything is going to be fun for everyone.

So you don’t mind this game not having monster-tagging as long as one person gets more loot than someone else? And how would you justify that? Who gets the better loot?

Also, if you ARE wanting there to be monster tagging so that you’ll be the only one “mowing the lawn” then I can’t agree with that. That’s what made WoW such a pain in the flippin’ anus to level up in.

Equal rewards means more incentive for others to help in a dynamic event.

Arenanet don’t want you to feel bad when people turn up, killstealing is an archaic feature that I hope is never added to games after gw2.

And people that turn up at the end usually just get bronze, you do have to do stuff to get gold.

bigtime.7410:

peterpat.8196:

It might be natural, but this is a game. It’s supposed to make fun.
Is it fun to get less when you ask your friends/ guild to help you?
If you want to do everything solo, why do you play an MMORPG?
Play a single-player game if you want to, don’t try to ruin the fun for everyone else.

Its not fun. You dont know what fun is, you think if everyone gets everything itll all be fun, its not. The fun comes from having more than someone else. Wether you know it or not, thats whats going on if you were honest about it. Obviously you dont know whats going on if you think everyone having everything is going to be fun for everyone.

False. Your definition is not about fun. It’s about envy, pride and greed.

While I’m not much of a christian, I still try to avoid these deadly sins. To me it’s impossible to have fun if at the expense of others. Jealousy and greed don’t lead to a fun gaming experience.

Why do you care what someone else gets in the first place? And what do you mean by “needs help”? I can do some events alone but if someone comes along it gets faster.
Killing mobs is faster if you do it together, so why should I care what someone else gets or be even jealous about it?
In fact it’s a win win situation to do things together.

marnick.4305:

Because this is a game, not a job.

Why doesn’t tiger woods get a handicap when playing golf?
Why doesn’t Kasparov play with 7 queens?
Why doesn’t Usain Bolt get a Segway?
Why doesn’t Tom Boonen get a motorcycle?
Why doesn’t Michael Jordan get a larger basket?
Why doesn’t Real Madrid have 20 people on the field?
Why doesn’t Idra start at Lair tech?
Why doesn’t SK Gaming start with AWP?

These are all people and teams who spent the most time of everyone in their respective games. They all play by the same rules as me.

Tom Boonen should get motorcycle to be able to climb next to Damiano Cunego. =)

bigtime.7410:

And that is exactly the motivation behind this thread, people who need help shouldnt be paid as much as people who dont. Its only natural as my example shows.

Care to explain who are people that need help and with what?

Forgive me, but I am completely clueless as to what the OP’s issue here is. Do you want people who join a party to actually get less loot than someone who plays solo?

If so, this probably isn’t the game for you, as Arenanet is trying their hardest to encourage working together with other people by removing as many of the possible detriments as they can.

bigtime.7410:

peterpat.8196:

It might be natural, but this is a game. It’s supposed to make fun.
Is it fun to get less when you ask your friends/ guild to help you?
If you want to do everything solo, why do you play an MMORPG?
Play a single-player game if you want to, don’t try to ruin the fun for everyone else.

Its not fun. You dont know what fun is, you think if everyone gets everything itll all be fun, its not. The fun comes from having more than someone else. Wether you know it or not, thats whats going on if you were honest about it. Obviously you dont know whats going on if you think everyone having everything is going to be fun for everyone.

you cannot tell others what is and is not fun for them.

if fun for you is being scrooge. then have fun with it. just don’t expect everyone else find fun in that.

So I pay all the kids $20 each. The original kid comes up to me and says, WTF? this job was worth $80 now? I would have done it myself then! No I say, if you do it yourself it worth $20, if you do it with others its worth more.

Does this make any sense?

bigtime.7410:

So I pay all the kids $20 each. The original kid comes up to me and says, WTF? this job was worth $80? I would have done it myself then! No I say, if you do it yourself it worth $20, if you do it with others its worth more.

Does this make any sense?

Please stop whining. the alternative is bad for the game.

So, I see bigtime.7410 soloing some event boss and I decide I want some reward as well (or get my daily/monthly number of events done), so I start nuking the boss and he goes down fast. Then bigtime gets angry, because he didn’t need help and wanted a higher reward for doing the event alone. Next he reports me for griefing… Right? I can see how a system like that escalates quickly. If you’re so egocentric, go play some single player game.

Basically you’re telling people that their extra effort, hard work wont be rewarded. Thats not right.

bigtime.7410:

So I pay all the kids $20 each. The original kid comes up to me and says, WTF? this job was worth $80 now? I would have done it myself then! No I say, if you do it yourself it worth $20, if you do it with others its worth more.

Does this make any sense?

It makes sense, and I too would be a bit mad at the original kid, but how does this correlate at all to GW2?

It’s Bigtime people…he’s just trolling. Let him be.

MasterGeese.4756:

bigtime.7410:

So I pay all the kids $20 each. The original kid comes up to me and says, WTF? this job was worth $80 now? I would have done it myself then! No I say, if you do it yourself it worth $20, if you do it with others its worth more.

Does this make any sense?

It makes sense, and I too would be a bit mad at the original kid, but how does this correlate at all to GW2?

Well in GW2 if you have the skill, determination, and put in the extra work it requires to do the job of 4 people, you wont get rewarded for it. Thats just wrong.

Because it’s a game.

No kid (player) in your situation complained. The only one who should complain would be the person paying (Anet).

In your situation, it’s more like the person says “I’ll give everybody $20 bucks who cuts these two yards”. So you being stubborn cuts a whole yard by himeslf for $20. The other 5 kids share equllay because you probably gear checked their lawnmower and said they weren’t as elite of a lawncutter as you were. So they all cut one yard much easier together. Everybody gets $20 and you get upset because you did more work.

bigtime.7410:

So I pay all the kids $20 each. The original kid comes up to me and says, WTF? this job was worth $80 now? I would have done it myself then! No I say, if you do it yourself it worth $20, if you do it with others its worth more.
Does this make any sense?

Resources in real live are finite, a game can have infinite resources. So if you had alot of money and wanted you lawn job to be done fast and effective you would hire more kids and pay them equally instead of giving your single kid like 20 hours time to do it. In this MMO tasks are designed so they can be usually done alone or in a group. What would you say if there was a theoretical reward for doing something alone but you could never get it done in the required time?

There are some things wrong in the OP’s analogy.
First of all, we are the kids, not the guy that pay the money.
Second, somehow we are to feel angry because the man has to pay twice as much. But loot doesn’t work that way. Nobody looses anything, in the analogy that man would loose suddenly more than $20.

bigtime.7410:

MasterGeese.4756:

bigtime.7410:

So I pay all the kids $20 each. The original kid comes up to me and says, WTF? this job was worth $80 now? I would have done it myself then! No I say, if you do it yourself it worth $20, if you do it with others its worth more.

Does this make any sense?

It makes sense, and I too would be a bit mad at the original kid, but how does this correlate at all to GW2?

Well in GW2 if you have the skill, determination, and put in the extra work it requires to do the job of 4 people, you wont get rewarded for it. Thats just wrong.

If it takes 4 people to finish something for reward and you completed ti solo then you get rewarded for it without needing 3 more. There you go. I just feed troll, i know.

The reward for doing events solo is that they’re easier.
A lawn doesn’t accumulate more grass to mow the more people mowing it.

You’re looking at it from a real world perspective, the real world is unfair. Guild Wars 2 is not the real world and is being 100% fair in giving all participants in an event a relatively equal reward based on participation.

To ask for the sum of the rewards of all the players that it would normally take to finish said event is simply greedy and just doesn’t make sense anyway considering that the events scale in difficulty.

This isnt about solo vs group, it could be a team of 2 or 3 vs a mindless team of 8, if you can do it with less you should get more.

I’m still trying to understand how you got real world payment to equal RNG drops.

I also just love this part “Its not fun. You dont know what fun is, you think if everyone gets everything itll all be fun, its not. The fun comes from having more than someone else. Wether you know it or not, thats whats going on if you were honest about it. Obviously you dont know whats going on if you think everyone having everything is going to be fun for everyone – bigtime.7410”

Bigtime, you also forget that events and such scale up, but the grass on your lawn doesnt magically grown taller and the lawn doesnt get bigger just because the kid brought friends.

But I’m still not seeing which part of the game makes you feel like its paying everyone equally for doing less.

The reason people can do events with less people is because they scale in difficulty to the amount of players. Not because your little elite team of players are the most hardcore lawn mowing kids on the block and therefor require more pay.

No, actually I think he’s right you guys.

And actually, mobs dropping random loot is not right either. If it’s 30 seconds work to kill one mob then every mob which takes 30 seconds should drop that exact same amount of loot.

This is not right. My effort should be rewarded by the same amount each time. If I kill a Skelk, it gives me 1 totem and 13 copper. I want eaxctly 1 totem and 13 copper every time I kill a Skelk.

I want Guild Wars 2 to basically be exactly like turning up for work in the real world. I clock in, start grinding, take a short break for lunch and then carry on grinding until my shift is over.

At the end of my shift, the game should count up how many mobs I killed and pay me the exact amount of gold I earned for today, then I come back on the next day and do it all again.

just feeding:
You get more, if you can solo things. Kill Lupicus solo, and upload a video, people will see it, maybe a mod will congratulate. You’ll know you’re better than an average group. Is that fun enough for you? You are better than many others! (if you are )

kRiza krimos.1637:

marnick.4305:

Because this is a game, not a job.

Why doesn’t tiger woods get a handicap when playing golf?
Why doesn’t Kasparov play with 7 queens?
Why doesn’t Usain Bolt get a Segway?
Why doesn’t Tom Boonen get a motorcycle?
Why doesn’t Michael Jordan get a larger basket?
Why doesn’t Real Madrid have 20 people on the field?
Why doesn’t Idra start at Lair tech?
Why doesn’t SK Gaming start with AWP?

These are all people and teams who spent the most time of everyone in their respective games. They all play by the same rules as me.

Tom Boonen should get motorcycle to be able to climb next to Damiano Cunego. =)

Paris Roubaix ×4
Green jersey
World championship

Tom Boonen would beat Damiano while sprinting on a Pennyfarther. But hey … that’s my point! Better players should get worse gear. That evens the playing field.

Nice troll.

In fact you get everything for free in this game. The more you play the more free things you get. That’s your chance. Simply play more and get more free stuff. Show ’em!

There is no “guy” who offers you “money” so that you do “the work” for him – this is a game. If you think this is a job, try some real work…

I think what some people are failing to realise is that Guild Wars 2 is not a job! Despite how much people choose to grind. Yes, I said choose.
First of all, Skelk don’t drop totems (I know, I know) Secondly, I don’t think the OP was really referring to random drops, it seems more likely they were referring to dynamic events.
If I were to liken it to real life, if I were to go hunting and kill a wolf or something (I don’t actually hunt) and then found a $500 engagement ring in its belly, it would be unreasonable to expect every other wolf I kill to have swallowed expensive jewellery.

marnick.4305:

kRiza krimos.1637:

marnick.4305:

Because this is a game, not a job.

Why doesn’t tiger woods get a handicap when playing golf?
Why doesn’t Kasparov play with 7 queens?
Why doesn’t Usain Bolt get a Segway?
Why doesn’t Tom Boonen get a motorcycle?
Why doesn’t Michael Jordan get a larger basket?
Why doesn’t Real Madrid have 20 people on the field?
Why doesn’t Idra start at Lair tech?
Why doesn’t SK Gaming start with AWP?

These are all people and teams who spent the most time of everyone in their respective games. They all play by the same rules as me.

Tom Boonen should get motorcycle to be able to climb next to Damiano Cunego. =)

Paris Roubaix ×4
Green jersey
World championship

Tom Boonen would beat Damiano while sprinting on a Pennyfarther. But hey … that’s my point! Better players should get worse gear. That evens the playing field.

Yes Tom would sprint-off Damiano at Hell of the North but thats sprinters race, while on those climbs at Vuelta Tom is calling for his mother while Cunego is making attacks =D Its far off-topic but im old cycler and fan!

So now i got a zerg on my lawn, 100’s of people cramming on my lawn each one cutting one blade of grass and then running to me for $20. Thankfully I got a money tree in the back yard. I pay everyone. Now everyone want to buy everything, so to compensate the local government started taxing everything, breathing, sleeping, waking up, using the toilet. All costs you something because we jsut cant get rid of all that money fast enough… there you go. Enjoy the gold sinks.

Here’s where the OP is screwing things up. With his example, he tells one kids it’s $20 for the lawn. Then the kid has friends help. What he fails to add is that when those other kids showed up the lawn got much bigger so each kid had to do his share of the work.

Real life examples fail in game.

You are funny. Now this is your lawn? And you have to worry about your money? Make your own game, make your own rules. Show ’em again.

You got a lot things wrong, and I am not only talking about the perspective.

bigtime.7410:

And that is exactly the motivation behind this thread, people who need help shouldnt be paid as much as people who dont. Its only natural as my example shows.

because then you would be motivated to tackle everything on your own and not team up with people.
Your comparison is quite bad as well:
Imagine you’re in school and the teacher gave everyone a group project to do. You didn’t want to work with other people, so you tried your best and made the best project possible. You got an A. John’s group made out of 5 people invested a lot of time and effort and did a great project too. They all got an A.
You will not get an AAA just because you decided to tackle a group event on your own, however you might have just proved to yourself that you can do it. That’s the only point of tackling group events (projects) on your own.

kRiza krimos.1637:

marnick.4305:

kRiza krimos.1637:

marnick.4305:

Because this is a game, not a job.

Why doesn’t tiger woods get a handicap when playing golf?
Why doesn’t Kasparov play with 7 queens?
Why doesn’t Usain Bolt get a Segway?
Why doesn’t Tom Boonen get a motorcycle?
Why doesn’t Michael Jordan get a larger basket?
Why doesn’t Real Madrid have 20 people on the field?
Why doesn’t Idra start at Lair tech?
Why doesn’t SK Gaming start with AWP?

These are all people and teams who spent the most time of everyone in their respective games. They all play by the same rules as me.

Tom Boonen should get motorcycle to be able to climb next to Damiano Cunego. =)

Paris Roubaix ×4
Green jersey
World championship

Tom Boonen would beat Damiano while sprinting on a Pennyfarther. But hey … that’s my point! Better players should get worse gear. That evens the playing field.

Yes Tom would sprint-off Damiano at Hell of the North but thats sprinters race, while on those climbs at Vuelta Tom is calling for his mother while Cunego is making attacks =D Its far off-topic but im old cycler and fan!

And that’s why the Vuelta has 3 jerseys, just like GW2 has three ways to get ascended.

And so we’re back on topic.

marnick.4305:

kRiza krimos.1637:

marnick.4305:

kRiza krimos.1637:

marnick.4305:

Because this is a game, not a job.

Why doesn’t tiger woods get a handicap when playing golf?
Why doesn’t Kasparov play with 7 queens?
Why doesn’t Usain Bolt get a Segway?
Why doesn’t Tom Boonen get a motorcycle?
Why doesn’t Michael Jordan get a larger basket?
Why doesn’t Real Madrid have 20 people on the field?
Why doesn’t Idra start at Lair tech?
Why doesn’t SK Gaming start with AWP?

These are all people and teams who spent the most time of everyone in their respective games. They all play by the same rules as me.

Tom Boonen should get motorcycle to be able to climb next to Damiano Cunego. =)

Paris Roubaix ×4
Green jersey
World championship

Tom Boonen would beat Damiano while sprinting on a Pennyfarther. But hey … that’s my point! Better players should get worse gear. That evens the playing field.

Yes Tom would sprint-off Damiano at Hell of the North but thats sprinters race, while on those climbs at Vuelta Tom is calling for his mother while Cunego is making attacks =D Its far off-topic but im old cycler and fan!

And that’s why the Vuelta has 3 jerseys, just like GW2 has three ways to get ascended.

And so we’re back on topic.

I like your style, neat way to dodge infraction hehe!

Not rocket science, you pay the $20 and they share it out between them, because it only took them a fraction of the time to cut the lawn compared to one kiddie doing it.

So many words about a very simple problem !