Guild Wars 2

If they ever offer it as an upgrade i would more then gladly pay the same price as i did for the game at launch….even if it’s an optional upgrade….and not a full game.

I am not scared to pay for quality stuff. In fact i encourage it…because i atleast hope that money goes towards quality.

XP is no longer supported, not by banks, not by microsoft, not by software manufacturers… unless they are A Net.

Win 2000 is not yet obsolete, not is windows 7 and 8 due to the fact they are NT versions. even though XP 64 was reasonable… I am glad I avoided XP entirely.

Windows 7 and 8 will get free upgrades to windows 10. so at the release of windows 10 there is no actual reason NOT to upgrade. Other platforms will get this upgrade as well… Only they require a full reinstall. This could be very nice, though I expect compatibility issues will arise,

Even if this game stays direct x 9 for computation , maybe the direct x 12 will unlock multithreaded rendering. using the hardware available… I cannot foresee this, but I imagine it being possible.

Rebound.3409:

If they ever offer it as an upgrade i would more then gladly pay the same price as i did for the game at launch….even if it’s an optional upgrade….and not a full game.

Wow .. i think you are in a very small minority with that, and most of the people,
at least at the forums would cry out loud how bad that is and what a greedy
company ANet is to want to have money for something that should have been
in the game already 3 years before it has been released

So i also don’t really speculate about that, since i think it makes no sense .. they either
have to release it for free .. or not at all.

thats why we gotta wait for GW3

Rezzet.3614:

thats why we gotta wait for GW3

But GW3 will have maybe DX12 .. while actually DX20 is close before release

@Beldin yea that’s because i actually love this game…if i didn’t i wouldn’t put in so much effort into flaming it as dumb as it might sound. I want to see it reach it’s true potential. Now in my eyes it’s like a dormant beast with no signs of waking up.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Windows 7 and 8 will get free upgrades to windows 10. so at the release of windows 10 there is no actual reason NOT to upgrade. Other platforms will get this upgrade as well… Only they require a full reinstall. This could be very nice, though I expect compatibility issues will arise

I can see plenty of reasons to not upgrade.
Compatibility is a rather large one.
The whole focus on touch-screens is another one (I seem to recall it being similar to 8 in that regard).
All the issues that usually comes with new OS releases. Keep in mind that it will only be free for a year after the actual launch.

Windows 7 works without too much issues, so why bother upgrading, even if it is free?

Windows 8.1 (apart from the actual start menu) is an upgraded W7. Also absolutely 0 incompatibility issues in W8.1 with anything so far.

Windows 10 almost completely removes the tabs thing. From everyone that actively tested it i only heard good things..not 1 bad thing worth noting..and this is a technical preview not the final product. Windows 10 will be a beast when it comes out.

Also W7 doesn’t know how to fully profit from the new generation of CPUs, memory usage and so on. The jump in speed/performance i noticed when jumping from W7 to W8.1 was pretty big …..performance that is also noticeble in games.

When W10 comes out people still rooting W7 will look exactly like ppl who rooted XP when W7 came out.

Rebound.3409:

Windows 8.1 (apart from the actual start menu) is an upgraded W7. Also absolutely 0 incompatibility issues in W8.1 with anything so far.

Windows 10 almost completely removes the tabs thing. From everyone that actively tested it i only heard good things..not 1 bad thing. Windows 10 will be a beast when it comes out.

Also W7 doesn’t know how to fully profit from the new generation of CPUs, memory usage and so on. The jump in speed/performance i noticed when jumping from W7 to W8.1 was pretty big …..performance that is also noticeble in games.

When W10 comes out people still rooting W7 will look exactly like ppl who rooted XP when W7 came out.

Let him repeat the same troll posts over and over that the internet dummies have been repeating. I absolutely love my Win 8.1. Its fast, its sleek, the mouse control is not shoehorned. They just moan for the sake of moaning. Don’t even bother answering such people, it is obvious he has only seen Win8 on a screenshot.

About the money I would pay, is the same money for any other Dx 12 game out there. In the case of Gw2 though, I see myself going for collectors edition pricing. Because I love the game.

P.S: I only bought Battlefield 4 and Thief because of the Mantle API support. Deluxe editions at that. Love how smooth those games are.

I was exactly like him before trying out W8.1 so i kinda understand him. It’s better to take the time to explain to someone rather then shut up and expect someone to know..even tho there’s the chance of that person not getting it IMO.

I actually HAVE used Windows 8.1 quite a bit. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

I prefer to have my desktop and startmeny as it have been for the last 20 years, I have no need for smart-phoneish interfaces. Windows 7 is stable, and until there is actual issues using it, I have no reason whatsoever to upgrade.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Hell, my R9 290X is maybe going to get full Dx 12 support. It is still unknown. Even though it has the latest iteration of GCN. At least until 3xx series launch later this year.

Based on the quote from the second article “Like NVIDIA, AMD has preemptively announced DirectX 12 API support on all its GPUs based on the Graphics CoreNext architecture (Radeon HD 7000 series and above).”, I sincerely hope that Rx’s will have full support. Hell I am still sitting on my HD7950 (very little reason to upgrade), and hoping to benefit from it.

With regards to Win10, I will refrain from upgrading to it until either 1st service pack or expiration of the free upgrade period (year since release?), whichever comes first. So far waiting for first service pack has payed off – original products by MS are usually too raw.

lordkrall.7241:

I prefer to have my desktop and startmeny as it have been for the last 20 years, I have no need for smart-phoneish interfaces.

“Classic Shell,” mate. Check it out.

I’ve been using 8.1 at work for months, and I almost wish my desktop at home had it. But on the topic of DX12, unless OP has a couple milli in the bank, I really don’t think it’s happening.

Why people think that a renderer is a game o.O Why would I need few million in the bank? There are countless games running OpenGL/DirectX and lately DirectX/Mantle or hell … multiple iterations of DirectX.

For instance, Warframe, a F2P Co-Op shooter has Dx 9, Dx 10 and Dx 11 support. It has ports for Playstation 4, which to the uninitiated should sound like something other than DirectX (It’s OpenGL). You do the maths and tell me again what is possible and what isn’t.

Plus from what ANet has shown so far in the game updates, their engine seems very well engineered. So I doubt they decided to cut corners with the renderer.

P.S: World of Warcraft has Dx9 and Dx11 renderer btw…

You are ignoring the fact that it is completely different to have a game built with multiple versions in mind and one that is not.

Guild Wars 2 was built from the ground and up for DirectX 9. The whole engine is built around specifically having DirectX 9.

In order to get Guild Wars 2 Direct X 12 compatible, they will have to rebuild the engine, since it is not built to handle Direct X 12 (or 10 or 11) at this time. That will take money and resources.

lordkrall.7241:

You are ignoring the fact that it is completely different to have a game built with multiple versions in mind and one that is not.

Guild Wars 2 was built from the ground and up for DirectX 9. The whole engine is built around specifically having DirectX 9.

In order to get Guild Wars 2 Direct X 12 compatible, they will have to rebuild the engine, since it is not built to handle Direct X 12 (or 10 or 11) at this time. That will take money and resources.

You – don’t – know this for a fact.

I don’t know why people think dx12 would solve fps issues.
Dx12 only aims to redistribute graphic rendering in cpu to all cores, but doesn’t change how the cpu processes the game engine.
And as gw2 is a mmo, all the npc, players, skill mechanic… Is purely done by game engine. Graphics in this game are not a big deal, with a gtx 760 or r9 280 you can max at 60fps without problems

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

XP is no longer supported, not by banks, not by microsoft, not by software manufacturers… unless they are A Net.

Win 2000 is not yet obsolete, not is windows 7 and 8 due to the fact they are NT versions. even though XP 64 was reasonable… I am glad I avoided XP entirely.

Windows 7 and 8 will get free upgrades to windows 10. so at the release of windows 10 there is no actual reason NOT to upgrade. Other platforms will get this upgrade as well… Only they require a full reinstall. This could be very nice, though I expect compatibility issues will arise,

Even if this game stays direct x 9 for computation , maybe the direct x 12 will unlock multithreaded rendering. using the hardware available… I cannot foresee this, but I imagine it being possible.

do remember that not only your operating system, but your hardware has to be compatible too. Some of my guildies are playing on the absolute lowest settings… But that’s the thing about MMOs. People with all sorts of hardware want to play it, so developers try to cater to all.

Ansau.7326:

I don’t know why people think dx12 would solve fps issues.
Dx12 only aims to redistribute graphic rendering in cpu to all cores, but doesn’t change how the cpu processes the game engine.
And as gw2 is a mmo, all the npc, players, skill mechanic… Is purely done by game engine. Graphics in this game are not a big deal, with a gtx 760 or r9 280 you can max at 60fps without problems

Because more intense scenes drop the framerate, even when you are alone.
And as a person who has played around with Mantle in Battlefield 4, its safe to say that im pushing 120 fps constantly. The same does not happen over at the Dx renderer.

P.S: @lordkrall, I don’t think WoW has ever been designed for Dx 11 when it was made 10 years ago. Yet, they already upped the render tech. And are upgrading character models now (or did already, i dont follow it so closely) because the new tech allows for more draw calls per frame without killing your FPS.

@Mirta – That’s why I wouldn’t mind a dropdown menu setting. Pick the renderer you want for best experience. I’ve dropped $1000 on my PC. Pardon for wanting to get all-around 60 fps, lol. All my other games pump up to 120 at ultra graphics but im fine with Gw2 going at 60 really. It’s just how love works. But that doesn’t mean I can’t ask for a little bit more. And I am.

Ravenmoon.5318:

lordkrall.7241:

You are ignoring the fact that it is completely different to have a game built with multiple versions in mind and one that is not.

Guild Wars 2 was built from the ground and up for DirectX 9. The whole engine is built around specifically having DirectX 9.

In order to get Guild Wars 2 Direct X 12 compatible, they will have to rebuild the engine, since it is not built to handle Direct X 12 (or 10 or 11) at this time. That will take money and resources.

You – don’t – know this for a fact.

We don’t know how much it will cost but it will obviously cost time and money; if all it took was a simple switch of the DirectX libraries that required no new development at all then the QA costs alone would still be significant.

Personally, as someone who’s going to upgrade to Windows 10, from what I’ve read I think it would be well worth taking the time to at least investigate the amount of development cost this upgrade could cost and indeed what you could expect to get from it. Whether or not any individual thinks it’s worth it or not is up to that individual.

I want to run this game at 60 fps with maxed setting out at wvw/zerg events and at this point i dont care if its dx9 or dx12. Its obvious they cant provide better fps on dx9 so they have to upgrade their engine at this point simple as that. Do you guys really think they going to survive in the future market with their current slideshow on high end pc? I dont. All new upcoming mmos coming with dx11 and im sure many of them will upgrade to dx 12 once its get released. Why anyone should bother with outdated dx9 that has trouble keeping 30 fps at this point?

The most funny thing is we dont even have 64bit client version…in 2015..

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Windows 7 and 8 will get free upgrades to windows 10. so at the release of windows 10 there is no actual reason NOT to upgrade. Other platforms will get this upgrade as well… Only they require a full reinstall.

Other OS’s apart from Win 7 / 8 won’t get any form of a free Win 10 Version. Most of those User don’t even want anything Windows on there machines, not even a second gaming partition …

Ravenmoon.5318:

P.S: @lordkrall, I don’t think WoW has ever been designed for Dx 11 when it was made 10 years ago. Yet, they already upped the render tech. And are upgrading character models now (or did already, i dont follow it so closely) because the new tech allows for more draw calls per frame without killing your FPS.

WoW was build with DX9 and oGL2.x (i think) in mind and released on Win and OS X simultaneously. There was no need to rewrite the whole engine to support different rendering apis.

Dx12 will only be available in Win 10. Yes Win 10 will be “free” to Win 7-8.1 owners. While reduction in the CPU setup would improve performance some, the big gain is found in multi-threaded renderers which this game, with the non-thread safe Dx9, doesn’t have.

However creating a multi-threaded renderer would allow Dx11 to be used as well and that will make a difference for players running quad cores and higher and will support Windows 7 and up without the need of an OS upgrade.

But coding the renderer to support a single thread for Dx9 and multithreaded for Dx11/12 is a bit of work, ignoring the API shift. This is why fewer and fewer game developers roll their own engine anymore as the UR, Unity, Source, etc engines have all been designed and upgraded over time so their renderers take full advantage of the newest trends. Nobody sells just the renderer.

this game would be insanely good if it were on dx11 or 12… or anything but what ever it’s on now

Just a reminder. Windows 10 will be free even to the pirates, however updates will be disabled and won’t be coming from Microsoft.

So really, they are just throwing this OS out. I see no reason not to pick it up. And if the upgrade is as smooth as Win 8 to 8.1, I’d be all in without second guessing.

Ah, but after that first year of “free” (nothing is really ever free) upgrades, we will then have to pay a monthly service charge to run Windows 10 (I believe) on new installations. For this reason, if no other, I plan to avoid Windows 10 like the plague. Even for the systems that I could upgrade it on for free during the first year I plan to pass.

Mirta.5029:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

XP is no longer supported, not by banks, not by microsoft, not by software manufacturers… unless they are A Net.

Win 2000 is not yet obsolete, not is windows 7 and 8 due to the fact they are NT versions. even though XP 64 was reasonable… I am glad I avoided XP entirely.

Windows 7 and 8 will get free upgrades to windows 10. so at the release of windows 10 there is no actual reason NOT to upgrade. Other platforms will get this upgrade as well… Only they require a full reinstall. This could be very nice, though I expect compatibility issues will arise,

Even if this game stays direct x 9 for computation , maybe the direct x 12 will unlock multithreaded rendering. using the hardware available… I cannot foresee this, but I imagine it being possible.

do remember that not only your operating system, but your hardware has to be compatible too. Some of my guildies are playing on the absolute lowest settings… But that’s the thing about MMOs. People with all sorts of hardware want to play it, so developers try to cater to all.

From what I heard this update wasn’t directed so much at the GPU but at the multithreading of the present single direct x thread, So it will be a big thing for all quad(and more) core users and the dual cores will remain in the positions where they are now…

If this is true I wouldn’t mind And even though I have a very powerfull PC I still have direct x 11 cards.

They might allow for directx 9+ to be allowed for the calculations, but still only refer to the instructions available in the direct-x 9 instruction set? so you could optimize use for GPU’s above direct x 9? not all possibilities have to be usefull…. most draw functions are probably still the same in direct x 12 as they are in direct x 9… Only the usage of the threads could be improved… whcih could be a VERY big thing.

Especially on a CPU bound game…

bob.5680:

Ah, but after that first year of “free” (nothing is really ever free) upgrades, we will then have to pay a monthly service charge to run Windows 10 (I believe) on new installations. For this reason, if no other, I plan to avoid Windows 10 like the plague. Even for the systems that I could upgrade it on for free during the first year I plan to pass.

Actually a very good point. It looks like the subscription model will be similar to Office 365.
Right now Office 2013 is ~$140 one time purchase
Office 365 is $70 per year.
50% license cost per year. Considering that office stays reasonably current for a fairly large time (2003 vs 2013 have differences, but basic functionality is the same, which is what most people use office for), so over a decade you will pay 400% more using subscription model than using one time purchase (reminds you of GW2 and subscription MMOs, yes?)

Likely Win10 will run under similar model, which (I hope) will create a large push in open source OS development.

Zania.8461:

bob.5680:

Ah, but after that first year of “free” (nothing is really ever free) upgrades, we will then have to pay a monthly service charge to run Windows 10 (I believe) on new installations. For this reason, if no other, I plan to avoid Windows 10 like the plague. Even for the systems that I could upgrade it on for free during the first year I plan to pass.

Actually a very good point. It looks like the subscription model will be similar to Office 365.
Right now Office 2013 is ~$140 one time purchase
Office 365 is $70 per year.
50% license cost per year. Considering that office stays reasonably current for a fairly large time (2003 vs 2013 have differences, but basic functionality is the same, which is what most people use office for), so over a decade you will pay 400% more using subscription model than using one time purchase (reminds you of GW2 and subscription MMOs, yes?)

Likely Win10 will run under similar model, which (I hope) will create a large push in open source OS development.

Windows 10 is not going to be a subscription model, they have stated this.
The thing that is free is the upgrade and your first license, basically if you want to reinstall, you’ll need a new license. That’s the catch to the free bit.

As much as i would love DX12 to be supported by GW2, it likely won’t happen. They’ll stick to their own definition of “fun” as usual.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Just a reminder. Windows 10 will be free even to the pirates, however updates will be disabled and won’t be coming from Microsoft.

So really, they are just throwing this OS out. I see no reason not to pick it up. And if the upgrade is as smooth as Win 8 to 8.1, I’d be all in without second guessing.

No, you still get updates from microsoft, the important ones anyway. And if they are smart they will make the cost of activation small like they did back on Windows 8, so maybe $10 for the upgrade license

A very simple google search will reveal that Bob is incorrect.
http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-windows-10-will-not-be-sold-as-a-subscription/

I want 64bit(for memory) & multi-thread/core support from gw2 before anything else, USE ALL MY SYSTEM PLEASE, what’s the point in having a gaming computer if the game doesn’t even use what a console has? I would expect that they are working on or hopefully have it in the pipeline some directX update as well.

Maybe it’s wishful thinking that a company that prides itself on doing things differently would actually update their engine on a regular basis to keep current with technological improvements, but maybe that’s just me. Guess this is the disadvantage of creating your own engine, it gets outdated before launch.

What Microsoft is trying to do with Windows 10 being “free” for legit and pirated users of windows 7, 8 and 8,1 is to get the most people possible on the same step, so that things like Guild Wars 2 being single threaded and DX9 for maximum compatibility across 4 Windows versions does not happen anymore. They will most likely find a way to monetize via their app store. Keep in mind that Microsoft makes more money selling MS office than selling MS Windows.

@Scoobaneic If newer mmo eat gw2 it will be cause of content, not performance. Gw2 needs raw power, and as time passes, newer hardware will come out with better IPC. With the upcoming of Skylake and Zen, it even make it harder to move to a newer api, which would take really long time.
Just to know, they started modifying gw1 engine in 2007 and it took 5 years till it became gw2 engine, and that’s modifying an existing game engine…

@Ravenmoon BF4 multiplayer is limited to 64 players, and there are fewer external things to process. In gw2, where it gets really messy is when +50vs+50 people engage.
There is a lot of stuff calculated by the cpu there (IA, players location, projectiles, range attack, AoE targeting, condition ticking, dps calculation, hard CC movements, pathing of transportation skills, dodges…). That’s easily several times the amount of data the cpu has to manage compared to bf4.
Things where the gpu does no job, and as a result, it doesn’t matter which api you use.
Just look at this video of how a gtx 660 can max the game with minimum of 45fps while recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1zWbnnjzOk

Also, the photos show how dx12 will work compared to dx11. Violet is game engine, and red/blue is graphic rendering. We can see that dx12 is really important when the game is very graphic demanding, which gw2 isn’t.
You cannot compare a AAA fps game, like BF4, performance with a mmo performance. BF4 has way more complex graphics than gw2, and that’s why mantle/dx12 improves so much the framerate.

lordkrall.7241:

You are ignoring the fact that it is completely different to have a game built with multiple versions in mind and one that is not.

Guild Wars 2 was built from the ground and up for DirectX 9. The whole engine is built around specifically having DirectX 9.

In order to get Guild Wars 2 Direct X 12 compatible, they will have to rebuild the engine, since it is not built to handle Direct X 12 (or 10 or 11) at this time. That will take money and resources.

If Anet is competent, the game engine should be abstracted which anet is able to add multiple renders without a complete rewrite.

Pointless thread is pointless. This is not needed. Game is fine.

I would love to see move towards opengl myself with a look towards enabling better cross platform performance.

On the topic of how “expensive” and “time consuming” a change to DX12 might be… May I remind everyone on this thread that there are game mods, yes mods, made for absolutely free by simple community people, not game companies, that created custom renderers for various games to utilize features and improvements of later DX versions?

May I also remind everyone that there are mods (once again free things) that completely transform video games, and allow super old engines to compete with recent games? High Definition textures, high quality post processing filters, more DX features and capabilities etc

Ansau.7326:

@Ravenmoon BF4 multiplayer is limited to 64 players, and there are fewer external things to process. In gw2, where it gets really messy is when +50vs+50 people engage.
There is a lot of stuff calculated by the cpu there (IA, players location, projectiles, range attack, AoE targeting, condition ticking, dps calculation, hard CC movements, pathing of transportation skills, dodges…). That’s easily several times the amount of data the cpu has to manage compared to bf4.
Things where the gpu does no job, and as a result, it doesn’t matter which api you use.
Just look at this video of how a gtx 660 can max the game with minimum of 45fps while recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1zWbnnjzOk

Also, the photos show how dx12 will work compared to dx11. Violet is game engine, and red/blue is graphic rendering. We can see that dx12 is really important when the game is very graphic demanding, which gw2 isn’t.
You cannot compare a AAA fps game, like BF4, performance with a mmo performance. BF4 has way more complex graphics than gw2, and that’s why mantle/dx12 improves so much the framerate.

Gw2’s framerate dips when you open your inventory …. it dips even more so when you have 20 people around, not 64. Bf4 can get pretty intense with structures falling down all around tanks shooting and firing choppers jets infantries and the list goes on and on. Especially on a major teamfights. And the game dips to 80 fps at worst. Which is still fine in my book.

I didn’t quite catch why you posted this vid. The guy in it is just wandering around on an empty map in an okay scene (not too many objects).

Its one of the reasons I started playing sPvP instead of WvW. It just hurts in massive fights. I have no clue whats going on and sometimes the particle effects fill up my whole screen so I can’t even see myself. That and the weird skillag WvW has been getting lately. But that’s not a renderer issue so I’ll stop there.

lordkrall.7241:

I actually HAVE used Windows 8.1 quite a bit. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

I prefer to have my desktop and startmeny as it have been for the last 20 years, I have no need for smart-phoneish interfaces. Windows 7 is stable, and until there is actual issues using it, I have no reason whatsoever to upgrade.

W7 is stable but it limits what u can get out of your system…because it’s just old…what is it..10yo by now? won’t even bother googling it.

Anyway W10 gets the startmenu back and all that jazz….but i think u already were curious enough to youtube some vids of it.

As for upgrading..ofc each upgrades when he feels like it.

Cazamar.7148:

Pointless thread is pointless. This is not needed. Game is fine.

That’s the exact mentality that makes evolving stop. By your standards we would have stone wheels because “they are fine…they roll”. No..no it’s not if it can be heavily improved…specially because more and more of their playerbase can handle 10x what this game limits us to.

If the game is fine for you good..then just go play it nobody has anything against you…but don’t come here and claim it’s pointless to upgrade because it doesn’t need too because that just puts you in the “very special category” of this forum…..specially because u had no arguments to back up your own statement. You basically just said “no”

Guys you also need to realize that DirectX 9.0c is one of the things that make this game so heavily CPU bound. The optimizations are obvious. Many things in the game are asynchronous. Those things are evident and I appreciate it. But see it from this perspective.

DirectX 9.0c launched on August 2004, while the 9.0 spec was released in 2002. That makes it a more than 10 years old rendering tech. What they have done with it is marvelous. But its just not good enough

Back in 2004 AMD was king of performance with its AMD Athlon 64. The then 400$ GPU was GeForce 6800 GT. Intel’s best offer was the Pentium 4. ATi was a standalone company.

We have gone leaps and bounds since then in terms of performance and instruction sets. This API was tailored for this particular hardware. It can’t take full advantage of today’s hardware. GPU computation (GPGPU) was probably a myth. But its a reality today.

Not to mention that Dx11 has technology that wasn’t even discussed back then. Dx12 even moreso.

P.S: Funny, in 2004 I didn’t have my own PC. Was visiting “Internet Caffe’s” for my gaming fix hehe I was alive when the internet caffee business started and died xD Much like the compact-disc. kitten I feel old now.

Did you read and understand what I said, or just watched the video and say a few things about bf4?

All you’ve said proves my point. A new api wouldn’t solve the problem of massive framerate drop in high populated combat situations. Game engine needs a deep revise to be able to manage properly all that insane amount of data, and take advantage of new api features.

but devs won’t do that, not only cause the time and effort to do it (we are talking about years and millions and millions), but also cause all the small improvements they’ve done since the game was launched would be thrown to rubish.

Btw, Ravenmoon, which cpu do you have?

i5-2500k OCed to 4.5Ghz why?

Plus are you implying that bf4 doesn’t process kittenload of data? YOU are not getting what im saying. Im telling you that even alone you can have framerate drop in Gw2 because of scene intensity. You lose roughly 10 fps when you open your inventory (and its actually full). I’ve seen it, there’s videos about it.

But since you like vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTofdajvMoo

Keep in mind I have a 120Hz screen, the framerate dips can be felt with or without VSync.

Ansau.7326:

but devs won’t do that, not only cause the time and effort to do it (we are talking about years and millions and millions), but also cause all the small improvements they’ve done since the game was launched would be thrown to rubish.

Care to explain why moders upgraded many old games like Morrowind and Gothic to dx11 and it dindt cost them milions? In fact they did that for free as thats their hobby..

Sure it is time consuming but today standart gaming is 60fps, not 20. They already had to create new textures at wyvern fight otherwise it would be laggy as f. Look how much extra effort they have to put in to keep this game somewhat playable. Dx12 would not olny make live easier to us, but also for them.

bob.5680:

Ah, but after that first year of “free” (nothing is really ever free) upgrades, we will then have to pay a monthly service charge to run Windows 10 (I believe) on new installations. For this reason, if no other, I plan to avoid Windows 10 like the plague. Even for the systems that I could upgrade it on for free during the first year I plan to pass.

nope.
if you upgrade within the first year to win 10 your license will turn into a win 10 license. you wont have to pay a monthly service charge and you wont have to pay for win 10 even if you reinstall after the first year.

if you dont upgrade within the first year you will need to buy win 10.

Ravenmoon.5318:

lordkrall.7241:

You are ignoring the fact that it is completely different to have a game built with multiple versions in mind and one that is not.

Guild Wars 2 was built from the ground and up for DirectX 9. The whole engine is built around specifically having DirectX 9.

In order to get Guild Wars 2 Direct X 12 compatible, they will have to rebuild the engine, since it is not built to handle Direct X 12 (or 10 or 11) at this time. That will take money and resources.

You – don’t – know this for a fact.

Yes, we do. The GW2 engine is the original Guild Wars engine heavily modified.

DirectX12 is NOT going to happen and SHOULD not happen as its a MASSIVE project that would sink a lot of resources for a purely theoretically performance improvement.

If money and time falls out of the sky then, sure then it should happen.

@ravenmoon That was a UI bug fixed in a very recent patch, it’s not a valid point to argue about performance issues, as the problem has only existed for a few days in the whole game history, and it was a bug.
About the cpu, there’re 2 things why 2500k struggles a little bit. First is single core performance, haswell has ~13% more power, and second is pcie speed, which gw2 really takes advantage of it (z77 is limited to 2.0 x16).

And why people keep mixing things? This goes for you Scoobaneic.
Just because a frog is an amphibious doesn’t mean a horse is able to breath in the water.
The same happens to game engines. Just because a single player non-online game has acces to it’s code (so people can make mods, adapt it to newer apis…), doesn’t mean a mmo game, like gw2, can.
If you want to make a point, tell me which mmo have open code,so people can play with it…

I’d love to see DX12.

Ansau.7326:

@ravenmoon That was a UI bug fixed in a very recent patch, it’s not a valid point to argue about performance issues, as the problem has only existed for a few days in the whole game history, and it was a bug.
About the cpu, there’re 2 things why 2500k struggles a little bit. First is single core performance, haswell has ~13% more power, and second is pcie speed, which gw2 really takes advantage of it (z77 is limited to 2.0 x16).

And why people keep mixing things? This goes for you Scoobaneic.
Just because a frog is an amphibious doesn’t mean a horse is able to breath in the water.
The same happens to game engines. Just because a single player non-online game has acces to it’s code (so people can make mods, adapt it to newer apis…), doesn’t mean a mmo game, like gw2, can.
If you want to make a point, tell me which mmo have open code,so people can play with it…

We are not talking about open code. You can already use a DirectX injector in Guild Wars 2, to either add better Anti Aliasing options that are non-existent in the game. Currently Guild Wars 2 uses FXAA, but you can use injectors to add SMAA which is way better (and faster). Or add a large variety of post-processing filters (like SweetFX / GemFX)

An example of adding new DirectX renderer for a very old engine:
http://kentie.net/article/d3d10drv/
The above renderer is a DirectX 10 renderer for the Unreal Engine 1 which was mostly DirectX 6 (4 generations back)

@Maddoctor And SweetFX/GemFX can only add shaders and post-procssing effects, but are you able to change weapon skins, can you add different fire models, are you able to change lighting intense…? To do that you need more than simple injectors.

Please, stop comparing third party, licenced game engines to gw2 engine. The rules applied in those don’t work in gw2. That’s the point.

Riku.4821:

I’d love to see DX12.

me too, I hope that zergs will not dip so much

oxide games talk is pretty interesting. No more driver heuristics. hmmmm.

Ansau.7326:

@ravenmoon That was a UI bug fixed in a very recent patch, it’s not a valid point to argue about performance issues, as the problem has only existed for a few days in the whole game history, and it was a bug.
About the cpu, there’re 2 things why 2500k struggles a little bit. First is single core performance, haswell has ~13% more power, and second is pcie speed, which gw2 really takes advantage of it (z77 is limited to 2.0 x16).

And why people keep mixing things? This goes for you Scoobaneic.
Just because a frog is an amphibious doesn’t mean a horse is able to breath in the water.
The same happens to game engines. Just because a single player non-online game has acces to it’s code (so people can make mods, adapt it to newer apis…), doesn’t mean a mmo game, like gw2, can.
If you want to make a point, tell me which mmo have open code,so people can play with it…

Its still active. Just popup full inventory and let me know if you get any FPS hits.
Also, I’m playing every other MMO on ultra graphics with my machine at 60+ fps
Battlefield and Dragon Age: Inquisition go with more than 120 fps.

Don’t compare my CPU to stock clock Haswell please. With turbo boost it goes even further than 4.5GHz. The liquid cooling keeps the thermals low.

Also, there is no consumer GPU available today that can max out PCIe 2.0 x16, even though they make them PCIe 3.0. I made the research before sinking $500 for R9 290X. It is not being bottlenecked by my chipset. There’s no difference in 290X running on 3.0 or 2.0.

Again, WoW is using proprietary engine. They’ve updated their renderer. It didn’t const them an arm and a leg.

Either way, in long term, old renderer is only going to cost them more. You know, taking their time to optimize stuff, it adds up to cost. I can’t begin to fathom how many iterations of HoT maps they’ve done before they had something that gives decent FPS. And that costs time, and time is money.

Regardless, adding another rendering pipeline would greatly benefit the game IMO. Many people agree with me. If they write abstract code, it should be easy for them to at least get Dx 11 running. Which does have multi-threaded renderer setting. Which would greatly benefit the more powerful machines.

If people get only 15 fps improvement, it will be wort it. The difference from 25 to 40 fps is HUGE and quite noticeable.

P.S: There is a time in programming where you just have to bite the bullet and upgrade your tech. Because maintaining old tech, more often than not, gets more expensive as the time goes.