Guild Wars 2

feel as shallow and redundant to anyone else as it does me?

No roles, no healer class, no challenge from the AI, no mechanical depth or risk / reward to the skill system. The progression cuts out for the most part at lv 30-40, the story is absolutely awful, everything except sPvP is a raging zergfest with no mental engagement whatsoever. I don’t find myself playing WITH others so much as i play ALONGSIDE a zerg, especially in WvW. The PvE is a shallow, redundant grind with horrible bosses designed with 1 mechanic and a hugely-artificial health bar. WvW is awful and directionless. All i can gather about it from the 50 hours ive spent playing it is that it’s very open ended and you just do whatever. Nothing really ever happens or matters in the end. You just cap with a small group until you get zerged down then you rinse / repeat. Then there’s Thieves. The only class that can DPS you down to nothing while being completely invisible. They own the map. The gameplay and the combat is just so dumb and one dimensional in this game. What happened to " We take what you love about GW1 and put it into a persistent world?" There is literally nothing engaging in this game outside of grinding for gear. The combat is awful and so brain-dead like an arcade game. No active damage mitigation and no real roles. Everyone plays a bit of damage support and control at all times making the skill builds and metas extremely linear, boring, and one-dimensional. Why did they think removing the healer class was a good idea? Why is sPvP segregated from PvE? Why can’t i wear my PvE armor in sPvP? Why is WvW the only substantial guild content in this game (which sucks anyway)? Why is combat so bland and boring?

lothefallen.7081:

Why is sPvP segregated from PvE?

You mean, why isn’t PvP open world in this game?

Simple. Cuz as a girl gamer, I don’t want to be working on my latest heart quest and get “hit on” by some bozo with a big…er, sword.

It’s almost like you haven’t read the transcripts from recent interviews.

There are roles. Support, Damage, Control

The only thing that I feel is wrong is the lack of satisfying encounters, which brings me back to: you haven’t read the transcripts from recent interviews, have you?

Celtic Lady.3729:

lothefallen.7081:

Why is sPvP segregated from PvE?

You mean, why isn’t PvP open world in this game?

Simple. Cuz as a girl gamer, I don’t want to be working on my latest heart quest and get “hit on” by some bozo with a big…er, sword.

That’s not what i mean at all… i mean, why can’t i bring my PvE gear into PvP? Why do i have a separate treadmill? It wasn’t like this in GW1 and i think because people could bring their cool items in RA / TA…well it made for more of a competitive, prestigious environment which i liked. It just feels artificial and mechanical to separate the gear because they didn’t want to account for balancing all the different trinket spreads and account for Ascended stuff. It’s just a lazy copout to design…that’s what im talking about, not world pvp.

Look, people get it already, you’ve posted what? twenty some opinions on wanting the trinity and how the combat sucks and on and on and on and on. Instead of making yet another post about this, why not just revive one of the older threads?

TheDaiBish.9735:

It’s almost like you haven’t read the transcripts from recent interviews.

There are roles. Support, Damage, Control

The only thing that I feel is wrong is the lack of satisfying encounters, which brings me back to: you haven’t read the transcripts from recent interviews, have you?

Those aren’t roles though. They are more like aspects of combat passed off as roles, but no one class does solely that, this leads to class homogenization. Which is what the topic is about. I don’t understand why it’s such a hard concept for people to grasp. A healer role heals, but also has other skills that do different things like in GW1 for example…a Monk with Word Of Healing as well as Reversal of Fortune and Guardian. That is a support role. What we have in this game is dumbed down and homogenized from that. A damage role is a warrior in a full damage spec, no heal skill, just Primal Rage and Axe Skills….A control role is a Visions Of Regret Mesmer (pre-nerf). There is nothing of that sort of depth in this game and when you gather the classes up in this game, it’s all a homogeneous zerg of buffs and blind DPS. No Mesmer controlling the melees to keep damage off monk, no warrior backlining the melees, no Elementalists blinding the rangers to prevent rupts…this game is completely homogenized and dumbed down from the roles of the trinity and GW1. No, it does not have roles, it has combat aspects passed off as roles, but everyone can do them and they become indistinct and superfluous at such a point.

There are no roles in GW2 and if you think otherwise, you are a casual, come from console gaming, or you are just not very observant.

lothefallen.7081:

Those aren’t roles though. They are more like aspects of combat passed off as roles, but no one class does solely that, this leads to class homogenization.
Which is what the topic is about. I don’t understand why it’s such a hard concept for people to grasp. A healer role heals, but also has other skills that do different things like in GW1 for example…a Monk with Word Of Healing as well as Reversal of Fortune and Guardian. That is a support role.

If you’re creative enough, they can have Specialized Roles i.e. Control Warrior

Hammer + Mace/Mace or Mace/Shield

30 in Defence, 30 in Power for Physical Training, and 10 in Tactics for Leg Specialist.

Throw Bola, Kick and Shrapnel Mine.

I don’t do much damage, but I do a lot of Control. That’s my role in my team. To control mobs so the others can blast them down. Just as my friend Guardian’s role is to provide Support and Buffs, our other Warrior is about Bleeds, and our Ele and Engi is about AoE damage.

lothefallen.7081:

What we have in this game is dumbed down and homogenized from that. A damage role is a warrior in a full damage spec, no heal skill, just Primal Rage and Axe Skills….A control role is a Visions Of Regret Mesmer (pre-nerf). There is nothing of that sort of depth in this game and when you gather the classes up in this game, it’s all a homogeneous zerg of buffs and blind DPS. No Mesmer controlling the melees to keep damage off monk, no warrior backlining the melees, no Elementalists blinding the rangers to prevent rupts…this game is completely homogenized and dumbed down from the roles of the trinity and GW1. No, it does not have roles, it has combat aspects passed off as roles, but everyone can do them and they become indistinct and superfluous at such a point.

Yes, everyone can do them, but Joe over there who’s specced for Damage can’t do Control it as well as Fred who’s specced for Control.

Everyone does Damage. That’s a given. Even in your example, Visions of Regret does Damage even though you mentioned it in a Control role.

Sure, my Earthshaker does damage, but it’s primary use is to stun. Same with Hammer Shock. I use it to Mass Immobilise and Cripple.

In GW1 as well, a lot of the professions could do multiple things if built for it. Ritualists could Control, Heal or Damage. Same with Monks, and Paragons. The difference was encounter mechanics dictated that a certain build was favorable, and so roles were needed.

Encounter mechanics are all that separate the two games. A healer role isn’t suddenly going to add depth to the game, but harder encounter mechanics can.

lothefallen.7081:

There are no roles in GW2 and if you think otherwise, you are a casual, come from console gaming, or you are just not very observant.

Yes, I am a casual. But at the same time I don’t need the game to hold my hand and say ’here’s a profession, this is the role it specialises in’.

I agree the roles are blurred in this game, almost to non-existence in my opinion, i don’t think we need tank, healer and support in general, but i do think we need the classes to have more active roles in the game..

The Versatile roles should be dropped they aren’t working, Average at all Master of none effectively means your crap at everything, which isn’t fun (Engineer)..

(An Example of how the Roles/Classes aren’t working? Many parties are allowing for only Warriors and Guardians and excluding every other class, if we had more dedicated roles on all classes, we would get less of this..)

I do not support Open World PvP in any game, its not fun and it promotes griefers..

Dante.1508:

I agree the roles are blurred in this game, almost to non-existence in my opinion, i don’t think we need tank, healer and support in general, but i do think we need the classes to have more active roles in the game..

The Versatile roles should be dropped they aren’t working, Average at all Master of none effectively means your crap at everything, which isn’t fun (Engineer)..

I do not support Open World PvP in any game, its not fun and it promotes griefers..

How are they “not working” exactly? People routinely farm fractals, run dungeons every day, complete pve events, participate in spvp. They seem to be working just fine. So any specific areas or examples where they “aren’t working” ? Or did you mean they just aren’t working for you, perhaps? If I don’t like chocolate chip cookies, I don’t picket the chocolate chip cookie factory, I’d just buy a different cookie.

Hay lothefallen how many time’s are you going to post on this same subject. its well known by any one who come’s to the forums regularly that you dont like GW2 style of combat.

And I have a Role I may be a combat healer but my main focus is still a HEALER I specked out for it if i didn’t i wouldn’t do much healing at all ((if any actually))

I would argue you just dont have any imagination. rainbow hand sines

If you think the story is awful I wonder what you think of all the other MMOs.

But yes, the one role combat is pretty uninteresting.

Yes, what you ask can be enabled in the game options.
Refer to the image for the how-to.

GW2 PVE was inspired by this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xsqXo8pW2c
Get better stats or more people to win.

lothefallen.7081:

That’s not what i mean at all… i mean, why can’t i bring my PvE gear into PvP? Why do i have a separate treadmill? It wasn’t like this in GW1 and i think because people could bring their cool items in RA / TA…

In GW1, there was a very flat curve with regard to gear. Max gear was easily obtainable and no one had an advantage (at least once you’d unlocked runes and such). While GW2’s gear curve is flatter than some games, it is more pronounced than the one in GW1. Thus, the goal is to level the playing field by keeping PvE gear out of sPvP. If people just wore their PvE gear in sPvP you’d have some folks in exotics, others in greens, maybe even someone in blues. And imagine the outcry if people who want to only sPvP found out they had to grind fractals to get Ascended rings and backpiece to have BiS.

Real question is, why are you still playing then? Seems like you’re better off playing a game you like instead of complaining about one you don’t. A lot of us like it the way it is.

IndigoSundown.5419:

In GW1, there was a very flat curve with regard to gear. Max gear was easily obtainable and no one had an advantage (at least once you’d unlocked runes and such). While GW2’s gear curve is flatter than some games, it is more pronounced than the one in GW1. Thus, the goal is to level the playing field by keeping PvE gear out of sPvP. If people just wore their PvE gear in sPvP you’d have some folks in exotics, others in greens, maybe even someone in blues. And imagine the outcry if people who want to only sPvP found out they had to grind fractals to get Ascended rings and backpiece to have BiS.

Yet GW1 required a lot more time than GW2 to build a character that is 100% effective.

Capping a ton of elites, farming grindy titles, buying all skills, unlock all secondary professions… this was required to be fully functional in all sectors and situations.
A title giving damage reduction and damage buff against enemies is no different than a gear upgrade.
While in GW2 all you have to do is get this is get max gear (which is pretty quick and easy in comparison).

The gimmick is that most people see gear and think of grind (and we thank traditional MMO for creating this bias), but if you disguise stat grinds inside titles or whatnot people won’t say a word, proof being that there is still people around who will say GW1 had horizontal progression even though it isn’t true.
Then again horizontal, vertical, grind, farm are all words people misuse or decontextualize just to make drama – no games lasts long without a sort of progression.

That being said, it’s still to see what methods to aquire gear Anet will introduce.
The cards they will play these months might be great indicators of what the future policy of Anet in regards of progression will be.

Yeahh lets have my ranger longbow pushback a bunch of mobs 1 by 1 into 1 place so my team can aoe them better. Ele can do that too with blowout.

Or you could have a guardian do that with gs then seal them in with a hammer.
Or a mesmer vacuum the lot with focus and immobilize with sword.

Damage, support and control. You complain about how simple the game is and yet you’ve conveniently categorized everything in combat to these 3.

Damage? Ranged, melee, direct damage, condition damage, mixed damage, type of condition, single target, aoe?

Support? offensive/defensive boons, fields, supports that work almost exclusively for melee (symbols) heals

Control? projectile reflection/absorbtion, knockdowns, debuffs, condition control, boon removal, damage mitigation, heal reduction, slows?

Each class can excel at certain things if they choose to and no 2 classes have the exact same type of damage/support/control.

I honestly love the combat in this game. I find it much more involved than most MMOs. Of course, I find the “healer” role insufferable, I like the fact that I don’t need 500 keybinds just to wipe my butt, and I love being rewarded for having good reflexes.

I hope more MMOs incorporate this action-oriented design where things like dodging and blocking are player-controlled rather than being stat numbers. And as far as the zergs go… that’s kind of how combat works. I have no problem whatsoever with the fact that most events end up looking like a scene from Braveheart.

He’s a bad and bitter player who can’t adapt new to a more active system. How he can claim damage mitigation isn’t active is beyond me. Other then stacking toughness all forms of damage mitigation are active uses of abilities.

The trinity was crap, and created a limited scope that pigeonholed classes. There is still some ‘role’ bias among the classes but no where near the level of trinity based mmos. Everyone can specialize into a different style and flavor of subrole. It’s upon those sub-roles that team synergy and strategy combination is created. Of course if he spent more then 10 minutes in the game and less time on the forums with his repetitive rants he might learn a few things.

Such as spvp is meant to be a seperate pvp for the sake of balance. There is no gear grind everyone is given equal level of gear so skill and not time spent grinding pve wins the game.