Guild Wars 2

TheWarKeeper.5374:

brilliant, i hope they will increase level 100 in the first expansion pack, thats good for us players, especially the ones who like to grind for more gear again since obviously u will not keep ur level 80 gear in a level 100 char, i do hope this game also gets mounts while they are at it and also bring healer back, make warrior more of a tanker so it finally can be like all other mmorpgs out there

PS im forced to talk like this… for some reason.

Funny thing is some people wont realize this is sarcasm.

SiNoS.2147:

camoflaugz.5031:

SiNoS.2147:

camoflaugz.5031:

SiNoS.2147:

camoflaugz.5031:

Anet really though don’t cave in to this whole anti gear thing. These people want to be so different to a point that it will hold you guys back. You don’t want to have a slogan like this..

(GUILDWARS 2 THE MMO THAT HATES GEAR AND PROGRESSION WE MAKE SURE YOUR CHARACTERS ARE STUCK AND WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO LOOK FORWARD TO GEAR THE WAY MILLIONS OF MMO PLAYERS WANT IT. BECAUSE WE ARE DIFFERENT. TRY OUR REVOLUTIONARY MMO TODAY FOR 30 DAYS)

LOL You can’t possibly think that sounds right.. this is what some of the people are asking you to do. Its totally backwards

You clearly dident do any research on this game as the BIGGEST selling point was the fact there was no gear grind. Most people do not infact enjoy gear grind. Thats obvious by the overwhelming outcry about this.

Also you can infact have a very successful and fun game without gear grind. It was called GW1. The game that this ones designed around.

Actually, it wasn’t the biggest selling point for me. The selling point for me was no class roles. No its not obvious that people don’t want the new patch. why dont you come meet me on my server and say that… People are pumped up for it. Jade Quarry come meet me anytime.

Ok ill rephrase that. ONE of the BIGGEST selling points was no gear grind. Most people dont realize just what this update actually is. And infact i’ve personally seen and talked to way more people upset over this than that are happy. Most when i point out what the gear actually is tend to get upset over it.

Most people are not upset about the fact were getting a new mechanic. Most are upset that they are going back on there word and increasing the stats.

Ok that sounds better, however honestly when I talk to people in orr on my server they are pretty excited. You gonna meet me to see because I’m not making this up.. There are some hardcores on my server that probably havent slept:) And no they are not bots they actually talk:)

Honestly jade is know as being hardcore central. Very few servers agree with them. Most servers dont have the same mind set.

Now that being said ofcourse those people would be excited by it. No offence but the locust you hear us talking about. That would be them. And they are truly a small group in the total population. Granted a very loud group. As such they tend to screw up the numbers people get because in general they are not looking at the total of people setting at that point but instead are looking at the fact people are at that point. Thats obvious when they stated that the very most dedicated have smashed threw there content already. They dident say most have got threw it.

So I take it your not coming to Jade Quarry? I can’t speak for other servers all I know is that on mine either people dont mind the new patch or their excited, some disagree but it doesn’t seem to outweigh the rest. It doesn’t matter this little change should not be breaking the game at all. I doubt its gonna be hardcore like wow.

camoflaugz.5031:

SiNoS.2147:

camoflaugz.5031:

SiNoS.2147:

camoflaugz.5031:

SiNoS.2147:

camoflaugz.5031:

Anet really though don’t cave in to this whole anti gear thing. These people want to be so different to a point that it will hold you guys back. You don’t want to have a slogan like this..

(GUILDWARS 2 THE MMO THAT HATES GEAR AND PROGRESSION WE MAKE SURE YOUR CHARACTERS ARE STUCK AND WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO LOOK FORWARD TO GEAR THE WAY MILLIONS OF MMO PLAYERS WANT IT. BECAUSE WE ARE DIFFERENT. TRY OUR REVOLUTIONARY MMO TODAY FOR 30 DAYS)

LOL You can’t possibly think that sounds right.. this is what some of the people are asking you to do. Its totally backwards

You clearly dident do any research on this game as the BIGGEST selling point was the fact there was no gear grind. Most people do not infact enjoy gear grind. Thats obvious by the overwhelming outcry about this.

Also you can infact have a very successful and fun game without gear grind. It was called GW1. The game that this ones designed around.

Actually, it wasn’t the biggest selling point for me. The selling point for me was no class roles. No its not obvious that people don’t want the new patch. why dont you come meet me on my server and say that… People are pumped up for it. Jade Quarry come meet me anytime.

Ok ill rephrase that. ONE of the BIGGEST selling points was no gear grind. Most people dont realize just what this update actually is. And infact i’ve personally seen and talked to way more people upset over this than that are happy. Most when i point out what the gear actually is tend to get upset over it.

Most people are not upset about the fact were getting a new mechanic. Most are upset that they are going back on there word and increasing the stats.

Ok that sounds better, however honestly when I talk to people in orr on my server they are pretty excited. You gonna meet me to see because I’m not making this up.. There are some hardcores on my server that probably havent slept:) And no they are not bots they actually talk:)

Honestly jade is know as being hardcore central. Very few servers agree with them. Most servers dont have the same mind set.

Now that being said ofcourse those people would be excited by it. No offence but the locust you hear us talking about. That would be them. And they are truly a small group in the total population. Granted a very loud group. As such they tend to screw up the numbers people get because in general they are not looking at the total of people setting at that point but instead are looking at the fact people are at that point. Thats obvious when they stated that the very most dedicated have smashed threw there content already. They dident say most have got threw it.

So I take it your not coming to Jade Quarry? I can’t speak for other servers all I know is that on mine either people dont mind the new patch or their excited, some disagree but it doesn’t seem to outweigh the rest. It doesn’t matter this little change should not be breaking the game at all. I doubt its gonna be hardcore like wow.

Once the full set hits the difference will be 1000+ hp, 5%+ crit chance, 30%+ crit damage. You get the idea. While piece for piece it might not seem huge it infact just smashed every existing piece of gear out there. And not just by a little.

May i know what is the vocal majority if aproximately 8 in 10 disagrees with this change?

Camouflagz, I’m on Jade Quarry—have been since launch—and I intend to quit the game if this horrendous ascended armor carrot-on-a-stick approach to progression is implemented. I’m sure there are many more on JQ who, like me, see this update as a contradiction of the core principles anet outlined in their highly publicized manifesto. I will miss all the wonderful friends I’ve made on the server, but a tedious never ending gear grind and gating of content is just too intolerable to put up with.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

BBilbo.9641:

This really isn’t about who’s the “vocal minority.” And it’s not about weather or not the new gear is legitimately more powerful or only slightly.

That’s really not the big picture, here.

This is about the basic gameplay standards and promises made by Anet, in the Guild Wars 2 Manifesto, AMAs, and press releases during development.

Arenanet. Don’t after-the-fact change the product that we already paid for.

I think the bigger picture here is the success of the business. Revenue drives these companies, it’s not a not-for-profit effort. Casual players…sad to say do not generate as much revenue has hardcore player/competitive players. Whether you consider there move smart business-wise is up to you, but I can see why they would do this. But only time will tell how it pans out.

I fond this very puzzling.

Most of the player type you are referring to will not spend a dime in the cash store nor will they stick around. they will place the game on the back burner until Anet announces the next new tier of gear.

Then they will praise the dev team spend a weekend getting the new stuff and be off back to Panda land

To everyone parroting the poor PR line of “Ascended gear is to fill in the gap between Exotics and Legendaries”, do you people not know about the numerous Mystic Forge recipes or anything?

I’ve recently finished the Whisperblade and Ilya, and working towards Volcanus. A legendary is a very the long term goal, but I have more shorter, but still substantial goals I have been working on… in addition to working on multiple armour sets for slightly different builds.

As of now I have completely stopped my progression on different builds (what is the point when gear treadmills will invalidate everything I do?). The coming gear treadmill also makes me a little worried about making more of these sub-legendary weapons, as their stats will eventually be outclassed.

Also, to everyone saying this is three months after release… it is closer to two months after release that Anet’s lies about “no gear treadmill” have become apparent. Saying it took them three months to crack is being generous, they didn’t even last two months before they decided to change their core philosophy that many of us loved.

Pic is my awesome weapon skins (that are much, much harder to acquire than normal exotics, but much much easier to acquire than Legendaries) that will have their stats turned to garbage, and then demand even more gems/transmutation stones to catch up to the gear treadmill (if I even bother play the game once the treadmill really starts getting underway).

Zoolad.9748:

There is currently a massive gap (progression-wise) between standard exotics and legendaries, and the “Gift” exotics don’t help much.

The “Gift” exotics can reach as high as 500g or more to create. How does that “not help” progression-wise, but Ascended equipment will? Is the “gap” the space between 500g and a legendary – are Ascended pieces meant to be so rare and hard to obtain that they cost 600g each? 700g? Because unless that’s the assumption everybody is operating under, the idea that there’s a “gap” to be filled is total and absolute nonsense.

camoflaugz.5031:

Yep keep it coming. Real MMO players play MMO’s for character progression and for the social aspect, that doesn’t mean your hardcore that means your playing the genre for what it is. Dont hold back because some of these people want a single player game MMO’s dont handicap players, it keeps going and going. As long as you implement progression in a fun way of doing things there should never be a problem.

The issue is this game was sold as NOT HAVING GEAR GRIND TREADMILL. ANET was oringially founded by WoW developers WHO HATED THE IDEA OF GEAR GRIND PROGRESSION!

It seems that these days the vocal group are always the minority (just like how everyone who has an opinion different from your own is now a troll).

At launch and the weeks afterwards, the groups who were complaining about a lack of gear treadmill or nothing to do once they had their exotics, those groups were considered the vocal minority. How about we stop trying to devalue the concerns of others by labelling them as the minority (thus their views matter less, because there are less of them) and we start respecting the concerns of other people in the community?

Surbrus.6942:

To everyone parroting the poor PR line of “Ascended gear is to fill in the gap between Exotics and Legendaries”, do you people not know about the numerous Mystic Forge recipes or anything?

I’ve recently finished the Whisperblade and Ilya, and working towards Volcanus. A legendary is a very the long term goal, but I have more shorter, but still substantial goals I have been working on… in addition to working on multiple armour sets for slightly different builds.

As of now I have completely stopped my progression on different builds (what is the point when gear treadmills will invalidate everything I do?). The coming gear treadmill also makes me a little worried about making more of these sub-legendary weapons, as their stats will eventually be outclassed.

Also, to everyone saying this is three months after release… it is closer to two months after release that Anet’s lies about “no gear treadmill” have become apparent. Saying it took them three months to crack is being generous, they didn’t even last two months before they decided to change their core philosophy that many of us loved.

Pic is my awesome weapon skins (that are much, much harder to acquire than normal exotics, but much much easier to acquire than Legendaries) that will have their stats turned to garbage, and then demand even more gems/transmutation stones to catch up to the gear treadmill (if I even bother play the game once the treadmill really starts getting underway).

I would love to see ArenaNet write a clarification post to your concerns because that sums up so much of how I feel about this issue. There was progressions in the multiple forms you presented it, you not only say it but you are actively doing it. This new change removes your incentive for progression because it devalues all the work and effort you are putting in and making it redundant. A game which I believed (and was told) was supposed to promote the exact play style you are talking about, I would really love to have a detailed response to the exact issues and concerns in your post.

Thread title: don’t cave for vocal minority
Thread content: please cave for vocal minority

Casuals are the absolute majority of players. If you don’t believe me, simply check unemployment figures. 92% is a huge majority, and when economy picks up, this number only gets bigger.

Alot of you people seem to think this is something of a “knee-jerk” reaction from Anet, i see it differently though.

From my mmo collective (we are present in most of todays mmorpg’s) we had about 30 people trying out gw2, out of those 30 there is not a single one left playing and the only reason behind that is the lack of endgame content, you can only do so many alt’s before it get’s old, and as there is no endgame apart from wvwvw (if you are in any half decent guild getting your chosen pve set takes about 3-7 days at the outmost) people started trickling off (especially those that disliked the pvp).

Here’s the thing though, ALL of us loved the game, its just the lack of endgame content that made us go do something else (while waiting for thing’s to pick up in GW2)

But i think that’s the beauty of gw2 actually, there’s no subscription fee so gw2 can (and most likely will) be the “other” mmorpg that you play on the side while waiting for content in your “main” mmorpg.

That’s how it turned out for us at least.

Rampage.9412:

Alot of you people seem to think this is something of a “knee-jerk” reaction from Anet, i see it differently though.

From my mmo collective (we are present in most of todays mmorpg’s) we had about 30 people trying out gw2, out of those 30 there is not a single one left playing and the only reason behind that is the lack of endgame content, you can only do so many alt’s before it get’s old, and as there is no endgame apart from wvwvw (if you are in any half decent guild getting your chosen pve set takes about 3-7 days at the outmost) people started trickling off (especially those that disliked the pvp).

Here’s the thing though, ALL of us loved the game, its just the lack of endgame content that made us go do something else (while waiting for thing’s to pick up in GW2)

But i think that’s the beauty of gw2 actually, there’s no subscription fee so gw2 can (and most likely will) be the “other” mmorpg that you play on the side while waiting for content in your “main” mmorpg.

That’s how it turned out for us at least.

In your case you can enjoy more with “your other mmorpgs” while stop provoking “lack of end-game content” with whiney and fanatical GW2 forum community.

Well, for some of us we have a real life, GW2 promises we can have “our life” while having our own way of playing the MMO.

I have invested more than 100hrs into the game (5 toons) and yet to have a level 80 character – My playstyle is just different from you, I like to explore, play WvW and SPvP now and then, I don’t believe in end-game, I believe in the Journey to the end.

Rampage.9412:

Alot of you people seem to think this is something of a “knee-jerk” reaction from Anet, i see it differently though.

From my mmo collective (we are present in most of todays mmorpg’s) we had about 30 people trying out gw2, out of those 30 there is not a single one left playing and the only reason behind that is the lack of endgame content, you can only do so many alt’s before it get’s old, and as there is no endgame apart from wvwvw (if you are in any half decent guild getting your chosen pve set takes about 3-7 days at the outmost) people started trickling off (especially those that disliked the pvp).

Here’s the thing though, ALL of us loved the game, its just the lack of endgame content that made us go do something else (while waiting for thing’s to pick up in GW2)

But i think that’s the beauty of gw2 actually, there’s no subscription fee so gw2 can (and most likely will) be the “other” mmorpg that you play on the side while waiting for content in your “main” mmorpg.

That’s how it turned out for us at least.

I don’t know in what kind of a collective you are but honestly… I barely have time to play GW2 in a consistent manner (although I enjoy it when I play). I don’t even have a full dungeon set yet. How you guys manage to find time to play more than 1 mmo… I have no idea.

Who is the vocal minority, then? I’d still like to see numbers on how many people prefer item progression and how many don’t

Frotee.2634:

Who is the vocal minority, then? I’d still like to see numbers on how many people prefer item progression and how many don’t

There was a poll on this. Out of over 1000 samples less than 20% wanted this. Over 50% would outright leave.

Edit: Heres that poll.

http://poll.pollcode.com/zryv2e

camoflaugz.5031:

Yep keep it coming. Real MMO players play MMO’s for character progression and for the social aspect, that doesn’t mean your hardcore that means your playing the genre for what it is. Dont hold back because some of these people want a single player game MMO’s dont handicap players, it keeps going and going. As long as you implement progression in a fun way of doing things there should never be a problem.

what i find bizarre is this kind of post didn’t exist in the lead-up to the release of gw2. it was the opposite. it was praising the idea of a more lateral levelling experience as opposed to the carrot and the stick gear grind. everyone was singing our amusement at raiders. we were relieved to think we could play a game which didn’t force us into massive cutthroat raider guilds.

how fast that utopian gaming ideal was ditched to appeal to the raider-centric gaming community rather than the gamers so absorbed in the promises gw2 was dropping in those wonderful videos pre-launch.

my mind is still boggling, to tell the truth. gw2 was going to be the game which made all levels of content inclusive and friendly. not exclusive and gearscored.

it’s like the game was released and all that passion and enthusiasm for creating something unique and genuinely socially positive was thrown out of the window to imitate the worst elements of other mmos. those other mmos were the ones a lot of us were running away from. we were running from gearscore. from the powercreep. we were genuinely looking for the joy of a more dynamic world. all those buzzwords. all those dreams.

no matter what colour ribbons get put on this, it’s wow all over again, with dungeon-gear you MUST have to complete x dungeon or be included in x guild’s dungeon run. where before the rewards were cosmetic and therefore inspiring a more relaxed attitude to running dungeons, now it’s heading back into the familiar ground of being so gear-focussed to the point of negativity and noob-calling.

right now i honestly feel like the victim of a cynical marketing campaign.

SiNoS.2147:

Frotee.2634:

Who is the vocal minority, then? I’d still like to see numbers on how many people prefer item progression and how many don’t

There was a poll on this. Out of over 1000 samples less than 20% wanted this. Over 50% would outright leave.

Edit: Heres that poll.

http://poll.pollcode.com/zryv2e

lol, obviously theres a lot of people that dont want it, thats not a secret or a surprise (although i really think the people screaming that they’re gonna quit are just overreacting and a lot of them probably wont..) but honestly this is a biased poll and just stupidly exaggerates the difference between how many people would be okay and how many wont.
I dont view #3 as a negative thing, imo it should be in the same category as #1, because the way i view it is, feeling like you can ignore it if you dont want to do it is how a system like this -should- be. Those people that said they wont participate are more or less showing that it doesn’t concern them and they’ll continue playing the parts of the game they do like even with the addition of something they have no interest in.
2 could also be categorized with #1, doing something even though you dont like it? it means you’re okay with it and its not that big of a deal, which is closer to liking it than hating it. that leaves #4 as the only very negative option, which is stupid

a poll thats simply – #1 like character progression #2 dislike character progression – or something to that degree, would be more interesting

Malediktus.9250:

Please go ahead and keep adding more item and character progression. Its a very good way to keep pve interesting for a long time. New skins are good, but what if you dont like the new skins or like the one you have more? After all visuals are personal preference.

No, don’t.

ArenaNet’s MMO Manifesto and design philosophy was a major selling point for many of their current customers. Going back on that undermines ArenaNet’s reputation and integrity.

Furthermore, the reason this mess happened is because they did the thing you’re telling them not to do now. They should’ve stuck to their principles and not given in to anything else.

TheWarKeeper.5374:

May i know what is the vocal majority if aproximately 8 in 10 disagrees with this change?

Another person who has managed to ask every single person who plays the game their opinion on the comings changes and doesn’t base their numbers just on people who are post on the forums.

Agreed with OP – the game is perfect as is (asides from a few expected bugs here and there). Just keep doing what you are doing Anet as this game is already a tonne better than most of the shovel-ware on the shelves these days.

Asides, I think we need to constantly remind some of the more vocal community members that we DONT PAY MONTHLY SUBS for all the new content that keeps being added!!!

Therefore, instead of whining shouldnt we all just be happy about this?

The forum community is the minority, and often a selfish minority at that…

To be honest, I’d like to hope that these Ascended items are the only tier of gear progression that they add in the near future

cgnius.8539:

To be honest, I’d like to hope that these Ascended items are the only tier of gear progression that they add in the near future

They may or may not be depending if this 2011 information still holds true or not:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/19873-level-cap-increase-in-expansions/

greyblue.4962:

It’s rather the opposite.

I think people expect this to work out well for ANet, as they’ll pick up a few thousand WoW players. If they lost 50,000 current players and get 10,000 WoW players, it’s still a net win for them because all of the current players have already paid.

This makes no sense. How will they attract WoW players with this? You think WoW players who haven’t already bought this game have been closely following it and just waiting for Anet to add a gear grind? WoW players who didn’t buy GW2 couldn’t care less about GW2 and won’t care about this new armor, either.

Gear progression is good. So too would be an eventual level creep with new skills and abilities.

I don’t care about the QQ. I really don’t.

So have we determined who the vocal minority is yet?

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Gear progression is good. So too would be an eventual level creep with new skills and abilities.

I don’t care about the QQ. I really don’t.

Your argument is so compelling. I can tell you are really concerned about the longevity of this game.

Snow.5269:

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Gear progression is good. So too would be an eventual level creep with new skills and abilities.

I don’t care about the QQ. I really don’t.

Your argument is so compelling. I can tell you are really concerned about the longevity of this game.

Not as compelling as your response.

I don’t see how a game has longevity when it promises to offer nothing new from what one could achieve in the first few months.

Edge.4180:

Satans Chosen.1024:

The title of this thread is faulty unless you have data to back up your claim of “vocal minority.”

I agree. What an odd claim by the original poster. Regardless of how one personally feels about the announced changes, the idea of how gear and progression would work was sold to the masses very early on. ArenaNet was not shy about their philosophy and their disdain for gear chases.

My point is, everyone who purchased this game knew what they were getting in this area ahead of time. To purchase a product hoping one day the developers would do a 180 on their philosophy is silly. Thus, it stands to reason that everyone who gravitated towards Guild Wars 2 did so because they agreed with the original philosophy.

To now suggest all the players are now a “vocal minority” is just ridiculous. That would be like suggesting all the players opposed to flying mounts are a minority. Or that all the players opposed to 40 man dungeon raids are a minority. Or that players who are in favor of the absence of quest-hub theme-park style adventuring are a minority. These are all principles the game was built upon, and if you (for some insane reason) purchased GW2 despite apparently hating all the design choices the developers originally made, then you have nobody to blame for your disappointments but yourself. Don’t pretend you’re standing on the side of the majority for a second.

Very well said.

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Snow.5269:

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Gear progression is good. So too would be an eventual level creep with new skills and abilities.

I don’t care about the QQ. I really don’t.

Your argument is so compelling. I can tell you are really concerned about the longevity of this game.

Not as compelling as your response.

I don’t see how a game has longevity when it promises to offer nothing new from what one could achieve in the first few months.

GW1 has done fine for 7 years without adding stats increases. Progression was made by completing new challenges, acquiring rare skins, exploring dungeons & experiencing the story. Playing the game the way we want to play, for fun. This is what was marketed to players coming to GW2.

Not another progressive gear based WoW knockoff. “Defying existing conventions” does not mean, cave in first content update & rehash the same failed principles that have been dictating MMO’s for a decade.

The title should be don’t cave in to the Content Locust. These parasites rush through everything new that comes out as fast as possible, and then complain in the Forums of how everything is super easy. They are the most vocalist of them all. And they are ruining the game for dedicated players.

drifter.8453:

The title should be don’t cave in to the Content Locust. These parasites rush through everything new that comes out as fast as possible, and then complain in the Forums of how everything is super easy. They are the most vocalist of them all. And they are ruining the game for dedicated players.

I have played since early release. I don’t own a single legendary. I have one 80. I have done exactly 2 dungeons… once.

I still want more progression and more opportunities. That is my opinion and I dont particularly care how a game released 7 years ago did it.

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Snow.5269:

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Gear progression is good. So too would be an eventual level creep with new skills and abilities.

I don’t care about the QQ. I really don’t.

Your argument is so compelling. I can tell you are really concerned about the longevity of this game.

Not as compelling as your response.

I don’t see how a game has longevity when it promises to offer nothing new from what one could achieve in the first few months.

The Dirty Old Goat hit the nail on the head.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Hmm 2.5 million people bought the game….

~7000 posts complaining about the new system.

~3000 are people defending the new system

~2 posts per user in the thread

= ~2000 people actually complaining about the new system

= ~0.1% of the players

Yeah i’m gunna go ahead and say that is a minority. When you get 500,000 posts from individual users that this is a bad system then you might have something credible. Most people just don’t care enough to come to the forums because it isn’t a big deal to them, they are having fun in the game or they already left.

You need to take a statistics class.

Colin Johanson:
“The level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game, and we absolutely would increase it further into the game, probably through expansions is the most likely place we would do that.”
awsome. I hope they will double the level cap each expansion.

Edge.4180:

Reaver.9256:

They’ve already lost a lot from not having enough to do. How many posts have been on these forums of people complaining about lack of players? I know a lot of my friends/guildies quit because they already accomplished everything to do. Most people don’t care if there weapon has a pretty unicorn on it or not. Most people I know want better/cooler items to work for.

You’re downplaying aesthetics while at the same time suggesting escalating stat changes is somehow “cooler”. Unfortunately, this is a game where:

1) stats scale down depending on your location making an increase in stats fairly meaningless for most of the world (and the entire world map is largely considered to be all end-game content under this design).

2) as players are given equipment with increased stats they are ultimately countered by NPC opponents with increased stats, making the entire thing a pointless wash.

Take a level 10 character, for example, and pit him against a level 10 monster. Now take that same character, give him equipment that has three times the stats, but raise the stats of the monster by a factor of three to maintain the balance. There is going to be no difference in the feel of that fight beyond seeing bigger numbers everywhere. What actually makes higher level content more exciting is the introduction of new abilities, mechanics and tactics on both the player, the environment, and the NPC opponents. You don’t have to throw in stat changes on top of that to accomplish the goal.

The only thing character stats are really good for in GW2 is to slowly unfold the world around the player. A level 10 player can not survive a level 80 zone until his stats have improved. That gives them a location and a goal to strive for over time. It becomes the point of leveling up – to be able to survive in more areas of the world. But once you reach max level, increasing stats just for the sake of increasing stats does little beyond making your current gear obsolete (which I doubt anyone is fond of). It’s also mechanic that can also be used to gate content by forcing a player to get tier 1 equipment in order to raid a tier 2 dungeon, to then obtain tier 2 equipment to raid a tier 3 dungeon, and so on.. but that’s the treadmill this game was supposed to be avoiding like the plague, and even now the developers are insisting they’re opposed to this design.

You know, it’s like players want to believe that there’s always a dungeon out there that is unconquerable until they have invested both time and effort into coming up with a way to survive in it and ultimately conquer it. WoW has taught us that the solution to this dilemma must always come in the form of gear with better stats. But it doesn’t have to be that way. We shouldn’t have to make our current gear obsolete every time we do that. There are plenty of other ways to gate content and make players feel like they are progressing through challenge after challenge. WoW rarely bothers trying this because they already have a mechanic: the illusion of gear “progression”. GW2 could continue its brave trend of being different and use a different way if they really believed in their original philosophy.

This guy is somebody who gets it. I’ve tried to explain this to my friends who I used to play wow with.

Its all an illusion, you aren’t getting more powerful, except relative to old content you’ve already done anyways. When developers introduce new content into games that utilize a gear treadmill, they do it with the understanding and expectation that you have a certain level of gear.

Every time they introduce new content, you are in fact weaker, and working your way back up to simply being on par (read: being able to actually complete content).

All it really succeeds in doing is two things:
1) Trivializes old content. In a game that doesn’t utilize a gear treadmill, if you want to go back and run older dungeons, they can still be mostly as challenging as they were they day you did it. The big thing that changes here is player skill, not you curb stomping it because you have another +200 stats.
2) Forces people who like to play multiple characters to grind endlessly. I’m a complete altaholic. I now have two level 80s, and am working on 1 of every other class. When you play a game with a gear treadmill, when a new expansion comes out you have to gear up EVERY CHARACTER YOU HAVE. This gets tiring very quick. I love the idea of being able to go back to a character I leveled up and actually roll into new content if I so desire, instead of grinding for x many dozen hours before I’m allowed to do the things I actually want to do.

At the end of the day its been said to death here and people don’t seem to get it. Almost every other MMO on the market has gear treadmills. There is no reason that GW2 needs them.