Guild Wars 2

In this post I am referring to “downscaled” content which I have experienced as a level 80 character. Simply put, I find it trivial. While fighting in an area with level 14 – 16 creatures I timed how long it took me to kill things and I found that it was consistently <2 seconds. To me that meets the description of trivial.

I was very excited to see some developer comments during past patches along the lines of downscaled content being rebalanced. I am unsure what the goals of this rebalance were if the content is still so easy. This is not an experience isolated to one area or one zone, I find most content below 60-70 similarly easy.

I love the concept of downscaling but, for my part, going to a lower level zone doesn’t play out all that differently in GW2 to most other MMOs . Consequently, my interest in participating in downscaled content is lowered. Personally, I want downscaled content to be within 10-15% difficulty of the hardest zones, curshed shore, orr etc. I like a challenge.

How do other people feel and what do you think the design goals behind downscaled content are? Do other people also find downscaled content this easy?

I found that armor/HP downscales too much but dmg not enough. In low lvl zones I kill much faster than in high level zones, to the point that I can oneshot things constantly with at least 4 different skills, but the mobs also kill me faster than high level ones do.

Yeah, I’d like the challenge to be consistent across the board too. I’d like the game to be just as difficult in Queensdale as it is for the same character in Orr. Maybe a little advantage, but nowhere near the face-roll it is now.

Killing a level 14-16 creatures on a level 14-16 toon does not take any longer.

Mungrul.9358:

I’d like the game to be just as difficult in Queensdale as it is for the same character in Orr.

You mean, a content designed for players that do not have all their skills yet unlocked, nor their traits (and probably newcomers), should have the same difficulty as Orr? What?

Funset.7893:

Killing a level 14-16 creatures on a level 14-16 toon does not take any longer.

Mungrul.9358:

I’d like the game to be just as difficult in Queensdale as it is for the same character in Orr.

You mean, a content designed for players that do not have all their skills yet unlocked, nor their traits (and probably newcomers), should have the same difficulty as Orr? What?

No- If I understand the Op correctly he wants an 80 with full unlocks to be down scaled more, he never says anything about level appropriate characters and since they are not downscaled it does not apply to them.

I agree to an extent OP, some time ago downscaling was made more strict and while that was an improvement, I do think you should downscale more, especially in starter zones.
I made a suggestion months back that we actually scale to a couple of levels below the zone

I regularly hang out in low level zones with my max characters and I enjoy it because I am usually solo and pursuing my own goals but yesterday I was introducing a RL friend to the game and I was doing hearts with him in Queensdale on a lvl68- man, I felt bad attacking at all because I would accidently auto attack and poof!
I was on a mesmer so it wasn’t even a high damage class.

I switched to my lvl 48 ranger and same story.

I shudder to think what it is like for new characters running around the map with a bunch of 80’s stomping their events.

Funset.7893:

Killing a level 14-16 creatures on a level 14-16 toon does not take any longer.

Mungrul.9358:

I’d like the game to be just as difficult in Queensdale as it is for the same character in Orr.

You mean, a content designed for players that do not have all their skills yet unlocked, nor their traits (and probably newcomers), should have the same difficulty as Orr? What?

Couple of issues here.

1) Players at the Zone’s Level
Yes, speaking for myself, I would like the game to be at least within 10-15% (sometimes harder!) of the challenge in areas like orr at ALL stages and at ALL levels (except perhaps the starter zone). Anything less is boring, just dull.

This is, of course, relative. So, the content should be appropriately scaled to feel as hard as that depending on the skills/traits/items available to the player.

2) Downscaled Players
When I am downscaled as an 80, or any level in between, in a lower level zone I want to be put in the shoes of those players in terms of challenge.

I want the challenge to be the same, or very close to, the level of challenge I have described above. This shouldn’t affect players AT the zone’s level. It just requires adjustment to my downscaled stats.

I had a post earlier which was deleted, apparently due to something objectionable in the quote, so I’ll just restate without the quote:

Mencius.7180

There are two things here:
Downscaled Content at 80
I find this far too easy as described above and I think it’s a real problem. I’m interested in hearing about other people’s experiences of this. Also,what people think the design philosophy behind this is.

This has nothing to do with level-appropriate difficulty for players at the zone’s level. It is all about how lvl 80 players are adjusted to lower levels and should not effect level-appropriate players.

Overall Game Difficulty
With the exception of endgame areas I find most zones a bit easy and would love to see them be a bit harder – but this is not a huge deal and not really what this thread is about. What I’m really concerned about is the downscaling.

Funset.7893:

Killing a level 14-16 creatures on a level 14-16 toon does not take any longer.

I just tested this on my lvl 14 mesmer and fights took 7 – 12 seconds. I still found it pretty easy but nowhere near as trivial as the same zone on my 80.

That’s odd. I am often owned by low level mobs and I am level 80 and in full exotics. One of my main gripes with this game is that I do not feel powerful in low level areas. It’s a terrible feeling being level 80 and dying to 3 level 15 mobs…..mobs I should be able to 1-shot.

Mencius.7180:

In this post I am referring to “downscaled” content which I have experienced as a level 80 character. Simply put, I find it trivial. While fighting in an area with level 14 – 16 creatures I timed how long it took me to kill things and I found that it was consistently <2 seconds. To me that meets the description of trivial.

If you equip a level 14 character with full exo&ascendend gear and unlock all traits/skill, you will probably kill at comparable speed. Even in greens/blues and without all traits, a player at level 14 kills mobs at same level quite quick. So maybe just unequip your gear, reset traits and remove utilities and maybe you’ll feel like those players in starting zones in terms of challenge

Morrigan.2809:

No- If I understand the Op correctly he wants an 80 with full unlocks to be down scaled more, he never says anything about level appropriate characters and since they are not downscaled it does not apply to them.

This.
I often think I’m helping lowbies by tanking events with them, yet whenever I play from the other side, I get annoyed when some high level character comes and “helps” me by completing the event I’m doing in seconds. Challenge is good and is why I play games.

So you would like the starter area to be harder for level 80 characters than it is for low level characters if I understand correctly? I don’t think many people are going to agree (myself included).

At level 3, you just about one-shot most mobs too. I understand that this is overall game difficulty, and that you do not want to address that in this topic. However, I feel that the difficulty is quite consistent when I bring a level 80 character to a low level map compared to playing on a level appropriate character. So if you want it to be more difficult for lvl 80 characters in low level map, then you will touch on the overall game difficulty.

Not harder; of equal challenge. Where did I say harder?
Stop putting words in my mouth please.

Esya.3427:

So you would like the starter area to be harder for level 80 characters than it is for low level characters if I understand correctly? I don’t think many people are going to agree (myself included).

At level 3, you just about one-shot most mobs too. I understand that this is overall game difficulty, and that you do not want to address that in this topic. However, I feel that the difficulty is quite consistent when I bring a level 80 character to a low level map compared to playing on a level appropriate character. So if you want it to be more difficult for lvl 80 characters in low level map, then you will touch on the overall game difficulty.

I think starter areas should be a special case. I recognise that new players need to learn game mechanics.

Once we get in to discussing level 14+ areas though I think a real gap starts to emerge between level-appropriate players and downscaled level 80 players. So, I don’t agree with you that the difficulty is consistent when I bring my 80 back to those 14+ areas.

I established that just now by testing my level 14 vs my level 80. It was <2 seconds for a kill for the 80 and 7 – 12 seconds for the 14.

Mencius.7180:

I think starter areas should be a special case. I recognise that new players need to learn game mechanics.

Once we get in to discussing level 14+ areas though I think a real gap starts to emerge between level-appropriate players and downscaled level 80 players. So, I don’t agree with you that the difficulty is consistent when I bring my 80 back to those 14+ areas.

I established that just now by testing my level 14 vs my level 80. It was <2 seconds for a kill for the 80 and 7 – 12 seconds for the 14.

I would have to retest that myself to see how consistent it will be from that level onwards. But would it not depend heavily on your build? I play mainly support builds as I have an interest in those, and then it does not feel that much faster on my lvl 80 character. Are you running a high DPS/beserker build mainly?

Actually that has annoyed me on my twinks, when downscaled jump to each mob in an event and I can be happy to kill a few myself. But I have that on my 80s chars to, that there’s always a race for the mobs in events or for Dolyaks in W3. People often just don’t care about the others. But I’m drifting off topic.

Downscaled player’s should have a harder life in lower areas, though still having an advantage. People including myself often just rush through the maps to complete eventhough there is alot to see.

The lower Worldevents are finished way too fast also, I guess just because of the downscaled. Jormag can takes 15~30 Minutes and Behemoth only 5.

A content made too easy and hardly rewarding just leads to fairly empty areas. Anet wanted all areas to stay populated afaik. So making it harder for downscaled and a low % for T6 mats could be nice solution. (But I have heard of people who are toplevel and actually enjoy running in low-level areas and one-hitting mobs)

Why don’t you solo a group event or champion if you find it easy?

Or aggro about 20+ enemies and see if its easy then…

I would be very, very careful of what you wish for, because when Anet make it harder, you will end up being 1 shotted by low level foes…then you will be moaning about how insanely difficult it is…

When Anet choose to make something harder/more testing they either x the damge by a 100 or give it skills such as mass stun/knockdown, basically anything that stops you using any of your skills…

Mike.5091:

Actually that has annoyed me on my twinks, when downscaled jump to each mob in an event and I can be happy to kill a few myself. But I have that on my 80s chars to, that there’s always a race for the mobs in events or for Dolyaks in W3. People often just don’t care about the others. But I’m drifting off topic.

Downscaled player’s should have a harder life in lower areas, though still having an advantage. People including myself often just rush through the maps to complete eventhough there is alot to see.

The lower Worldevents are finished way too fast also, I guess just because of the downscaled. Jormag can takes 15~30 Minutes and Behemoth only 5.

A content made too easy and hardly rewarding just leads to fairly empty areas. Anet wanted all areas to stay populated afaik. So making it harder for downscaled and a low % for T6 mats could be nice solution. (But I have heard of people who are toplevel and actually enjoy running in low-level areas and one-hitting mobs)

Gods it would be amazing if Shadow Behemoth actually lasted 5 min!
The problem with those bosses is that they are in starter zones and cannot be made too difficult for those zones- I remember fondly when I was a level 10 or so and it was a hard fight.
The world bosses in starter zones give the best max level rewards in the game and this causes several problems, not least of which is 80’s hanging out in Queensdale etc.

In some ways this is good since keeps the maps and events very alive but the downscaling needs to be tweaked so that everyone has a similar experience and content is not trivialised for either extreme in levels.
This needs to be across the whole game and we will truly have a living world where everyone can go and have fun, be challenged and get appropriate rewards for their level.

Meglobob.8620:

Why don’t you solo a group event or champion if you find it easy?

Or aggro about 20+ enemies and see if its easy then…

Sadly I have and yes, mostly it is and while I find it somewhat fun on my 48 Ranger in Gendarren because I can do that, if I switched to my 80’s, I’d just feel like a bully ;P

Well, if you really do want a challenge in the low level areas, you could get some basic white armor from the npc and use that instead.

There’s just the problem with storage space…

Morrigan.2809:

Meglobob.8620:

Why don’t you solo a group event or champion if you find it easy?

Or aggro about 20+ enemies and see if its easy then…

Sadly I have and yes, mostly it is and while I find it somewhat fun on my 48 Ranger in Gendarren because I can do that, if I switched to my 80’s, I’d just feel like a bully ;P

Okay go naked except for your weapon!

Meglobob.8620:

Why don’t you solo a group event or champion if you find it easy?

Or aggro about 20+ enemies and see if its easy then…

I do.
Regularly.

Mencius.7180:

Funset.7893:

Killing a level 14-16 creatures on a level 14-16 toon does not take any longer.

Mungrul.9358:

I’d like the game to be just as difficult in Queensdale as it is for the same character in Orr.

You mean, a content designed for players that do not have all their skills yet unlocked, nor their traits (and probably newcomers), should have the same difficulty as Orr? What?

Couple of issues here.

1) Players at the Zone’s Level
Yes, speaking for myself, I would like the game to be at least within 10-15% (sometimes harder!) of the challenge in areas like orr at ALL stages and at ALL levels (except perhaps the starter zone). Anything less is boring, just dull.

This is, of course, relative. So, the content should be appropriately scaled to feel as hard as that depending on the skills/traits/items available to the player.

2) Downscaled Players
When I am downscaled as an 80, or any level in between, in a lower level zone I want to be put in the shoes of those players in terms of challenge.

I want the challenge to be the same, or very close to, the level of challenge I have described above. This shouldn’t affect players AT the zone’s level. It just requires adjustment to my downscaled stats.

Funset.7893:

Killing a level 14-16 creatures on a level 14-16 toon does not take any longer.

I just tested this on my lvl 14 mesmer and fights took 7 – 12 seconds. I still found it pretty easy but nowhere near as trivial as the same zone on my 80.

I am sorry to say it, but this is just…like your opinion and personal demands, man. I like to feel more powerful in the low level zones. It is fun, in my opinion.
I want to kill within 3 seconds the mobs in 50-79 level zones, should ArenaNet cater to my needs and demands?

So if they change the way you downscale what happens when you want to run a low level dungeon? People already complain about the difficulty of AC and now you want to make it even harder?

Be careful what you ask for, they might make queensdale like Orr and get 1shot by crap. No thanks… but definitely damage is off the charts when you’re 80 and in full exotics being downscaled. Steam rolling everything with my shortbow AoE I can do any event in queensdale with my eyes closed. It is a low level area though and there is not much they can do without ruining a low levels experience, all you can do is go to higher area’s for a challenge. Sorry did I say challenge? I meant 1 shot mechanics.

Mencius.7180:

2) Downscaled Players
When I am downscaled as an 80, or any level in between, in a lower level zone I want to be put in the shoes of those players in terms of challenge.

I want the challenge to be the same, or very close to, the level of challenge I have described above. This shouldn’t affect players AT the zone’s level. It just requires adjustment to my downscaled stats.

Yes but those players don’t have the same amount of skills, they don’t have traits, they don’t have elite skills. There is no way to make this work properly, if anything, try a level 30 zone instead of the level 1 zone, it might do the trick.

Esya.3427:

I would have to retest that myself to see how consistent it will be from that level onwards. But would it not depend heavily on your build? I play mainly support builds as I have an interest in those, and then it does not feel that much faster on my lvl 80 character. Are you running a high DPS/beserker build mainly?

I agree this needs more testing. I am not running a very high dps build on the 80, a guardian in knight’s gear with a high toughness/precision level. It’s tanky with moderate dps. It would be great to test thoroughly but my consistent subjective experience is that the content is farm more trivial when downscaled than at-level as I’ve described above.

Mencius.7180:

This has nothing to do with level-appropriate difficulty for players at the zone’s level. It is all about how lvl 80 players are adjusted to lower levels and should not effect level-appropriate players.

You mean you want when you are downscaled to lose your utility and elite skills and also your traits? I don’t get it and don’t want it either.

maddoctor.2738:

Mencius.7180:

This has nothing to do with level-appropriate difficulty for players at the zone’s level. It is all about how lvl 80 players are adjusted to lower levels and should not effect level-appropriate players.

You mean you want when you are downscaled to lose your utility and elite skills and also your traits? I don’t get it and don’t want it either.

I really don’t think the utilities and elites have much to do with it. I have a fair inkling that it is the stat boosts from exotic gear, weapons, runes, and full amulets/trinkets.

When downscaled I almost never need to use my extra utilities, let alone my elite, so I think the problem could be substantially addressed through stat tweaks to cancel out all the extra gear.

I’m not sure how much traits factor in to it but I think the +stats from traits could be addressed by tweaks. The actual trait utility skills, I’m not sure those would be a big deal, I don’ t know.

Mencius.7180:

maddoctor.2738:

Mencius.7180:

This has nothing to do with level-appropriate difficulty for players at the zone’s level. It is all about how lvl 80 players are adjusted to lower levels and should not effect level-appropriate players.

You mean you want when you are downscaled to lose your utility and elite skills and also your traits? I don’t get it and don’t want it either.

I really don’t think the utilities and elites have much to do with it. I have a fair inkling that it is the stat boosts from exotic gear, weapons, runes, and full amulets/trinkets.

When downscaled I almost never need to use my extra utilities, let alone my elite, so I think the problem could be substantially addressed through stat tweaks to cancel out all the extra gear.

Also, while you are not using your extra utilities or elite, you are still using your traits, things like cooldown reduction, extra damage at certain percentages, extra boon duration, might buffs or condition application exist in traits for all profession and give an extra edge, why would anyone want to tone these down and how much should a 25% cd reduction trait be reduced in a level 1 zone? Too much of a hassle.

About the gear difference, if the downscaling was more severe, then a level 80 with full White gear will have serious issues in a level 1 zone… might even be harder for one than a true level 1 character. Maybe I’ll try it, go in a level 1 zone with white gear…

maddoctor.2738:

About the gear difference, if the downscaling was more severe, then a level 80 with full White gear will have serious issues in a level 1 zone… might even be harder for one than a true level 1 character. Maybe I’ll try it, go in a level 1 zone with white gear…

This is something you notice when you just outlevel something, say AC level 30 dungeon on a level 40 character in level 30 gear. What happens is that the level 30 items on the level 30 character are not down-scaled. On the level 40 character your level 30 items are downscaled and you are actually weaker than the level 30 character while wearing the same equipment. It isn’t always a comfortable experience.

Voodoo.1709:

So if they change the way you downscale what happens when you want to run a low level dungeon? People already complain about the difficulty of AC and now you want to make it even harder?

This is interesting because I actually think the downscaled dungeons seem to have a pretty good, or at least some, level of difficulty. Why don’t the zones?

Funset.7893:

I am sorry to say it, but this is just…like your opinion and personal demands, man. I like to feel more powerful in the low level zones. It is fun, in my opinion.
I want to kill within 3 seconds the mobs in 50-79 level zones, should ArenaNet cater to my needs and demands?

This is also very interesting because your comment, along with the contrary replies by players discussing the negative impact they feel they have on low level players when downscaled, and the negative impact they see 80’s inflicting when they play at-level, highlights the design tension which is at issue here. We haven’t really gotten into the whys and whatfors of game design yet.

Why Does Guild Wars 2 Have Downscaling?
Well, without digging up a lot of past blog posts I can only go by memory but I think these are the two reasons:
1) To allow us to play with our friends:
It doesn’t matter what level your friends are, you can bring them to the game and enjoy playing with them. You should both have fun and experience some challenges.
1) To allow us to experience lower level zones at 80
This goal opens up the world map and is intended to keep the game vibrant across all areas. Play should be rewarding for lvl 80 players going back to old zones they never played or going back to an old zone to see what changes have happened since they were last there.

I think these are both laudable goals personally and I think aggressive downscaling needs to be implemented to support them.

Why Shouldn’t Guild Wars 2 Have Downscaling?
Funsets reply, along with others like it, highlights the problem. Players consistently feel that they want to be more powerful in lower level zones. Otherwise, what is the point of levelling? If we have nothing to measure our progress by, i.e. power in lower zones, then why on earth should we bother levelling at all?

I think this is a legitimate question and a genuine issue.

The Design Tension
I think there is a massive tension between the two points of view which I’ve described above. Maybe the devs are already aware of this.
Certainly, to me, I feel the balance has shifted, or was always skewed, too far towards allowing us to feel powerful in lower level zones. Clearly plenty of other players feel differently.

How Could This be Addressed?
Simple, with other indicators/measures of power. Some of these measures we already have, such as aesthetic measures of progress, or access to high level areas which lower level players do not have.

But maybe these alternative measures of power are not enough? Clearly, there are at least some players who are frustrated by downscaling because it makes them feel less powerful.

Can anyone think of some other “non-power in lower level zones” indicators/measures of progress which could be used to reward levelling?

I am not sure if it is a matter of gear or traits or a combination.

Certainly my 80 Engi is running around in a mottley of yellow gear between lvl 45-60, she has only 2 exo pieces on her because I am too cheap for fine trans-stones. But she still one shots

My main Mesmer is in full carrion exo..
I never get to use most utilities let alone elites at low level maps.

I am curious what the effect of an 80 in white gear will be- brb- I have to try it out

Mencius.7180:

Voodoo.1709:

So if they change the way you downscale what happens when you want to run a low level dungeon? People already complain about the difficulty of AC and now you want to make it even harder?

This is interesting because I actually think the downscaled dungeons seem to have a pretty good, or at least some, level of difficulty. Why don’t the zones?

That’s easy to explain. Dungeon mobs have some abilities that actually make them strong, too much ranged damage in CM, lots of knockdowns in AC, lots of conditions in TA, it’s strange that as the level of the dungeon raises, the mobs become more and more damage/health with less and less interesting abilities (talking about trash mobs only), for example in CoF/CoE/HotW the mobs don’t have lots of knockdowns, nor condition spam, nor heavy ranged damage, the very features that made the early dungeons challenging. I believe if the early dungeons didn’t have the over-use of certain abilities they would be far far easier than the later dungeons, because they DO die more easily than the higher level mobs.

I don’t think such a change would be doable in the open world because it would hurt those that are leveling there.

I have to disagree with the OP, I WANT downscaled content to be easier. That’s the whole point of being more experienced at my profession. If I’m in a starter area, I avoid true to level players (unless they are downed or dead or want to party up) so as not to interfere with their progression.

I deliberately go to lower levels when doing my dailies. Because I want them done quickly. If I want a challenge, then I stick to the higher level content.

For the lvl80’s that find starter areas to easy and want it more difficult;
It’s NOT a lvl80 area.
Strip your armor and only use weapon skill 1
Its easier to make somthing easy more difficult than to make something difficult more easy.

I on the other hand like to feel overpowered and 1-shot evryting in starter areas.

This game really needs a Normal Mode and Hard Mode, like in GW1
I nevr liked the extra challenge of HM in GW1, i preferred steamrolling NM

dagrdagaz.4913:

For the lvl80’s that find starter areas to easy and want it more difficult;
It’s NOT a lvl80 area.
Strip your armor and only use weapon skill 1
Its easier to make somthing easy more difficult than to make something difficult more easy.

I on the other hand like to feel overpowered and 1-shot evryting in starter areas.

This game really needs a Normal Mode and Hard Mode, like in GW1
I nevr liked the extra challenge of HM in GW1, i preferred steamrolling NM

Well, as I said earlier the starter areas are something of a special case.

The suggestion on my part is for all areas of the game to be as hard, or very close to as hard, for downscaled 80 players as they are for players at the zone’s level. This has nothing to do with players at the zone’s level.

As your reply demonstrates there is a division between players who are supportive of this idea and those who feel the way you do.

Remember, real downscaling was/is apparently the design intention if developer statements and pre-release ideals are taken into account.

I think it’s a fantastic design goal. It makes the whole world “endgame” and helps ensure a well-populated world.

Morrigan.2809:

I am not sure if it is a matter of gear or traits or a combination.

Certainly my 80 Engi is running around in a mottley of yellow gear between lvl 45-60, she has only 2 exo pieces on her because I am too cheap for fine trans-stones. But she still one shots

My main Mesmer is in full carrion exo..
I never get to use most utilities let alone elites at low level maps.

I am curious what the effect of an 80 in white gear will be- brb- I have to try it out

I will have to try this too. I am also interested in researching the mechanics of level adjustment to try and nut out just why I am finding it so easy.

Compared to GW1, the AI seems pretty appallingly bad in this game, my friend couldn’t get past level 10 saying it was faceroll boring. He’s right… why is the AI so bad in this game?

Mencius.7180:

Morrigan.2809:

I am not sure if it is a matter of gear or traits or a combination.

Certainly my 80 Engi is running around in a mottley of yellow gear between lvl 45-60, she has only 2 exo pieces on her because I am too cheap for fine trans-stones. But she still one shots

My main Mesmer is in full carrion exo..
I never get to use most utilities let alone elites at low level maps.

I am curious what the effect of an 80 in white gear will be- brb- I have to try it out

I will have to try this too. I am also interested in researching the mechanics of level adjustment to try and nut out just why I am finding it so easy.

So I geared my Engi all in white armour and weapons with no runes/sigils.
I went to Salma’s Heath in Queensdale with the eternal spawning centaurs and got to killing.
Sure I do less damage and if they get a hit in it hurts a bit more but after my brief experiment it seems to me that the power of an 80 comes more from traits.
Use of F-skills and utils more that made up the lack of damage out-put from my main weapons.
So they still basically die really quick.
I also hit up Troll to see how she would do against a champ.
There were others there but it seemed about the same- including me going down because he stomped on me :P

I still have to try it on my Mesmer but being a Mesmer, she can pretty much survive anything until whatever drops from exhaustion.

I realise it was a fairly short experiment but I just wanted to tell you what I found so far. Will try some other maps at some point

All of these zones should be buffed to compensate for level 80s. Anyone below level 80 should die in one hit, otherwise, it’s too easy!

Veldan.4637:

I found that armor/HP downscales too much but dmg not enough. In low lvl zones I kill much faster than in high level zones, to the point that I can oneshot things constantly with at least 4 different skills, but the mobs also kill me faster than high level ones do.

This is my experience as well. Going around one-two shotting mobs in <1.5 seconds is exactly what the downscaling was supposed to prevent. It is really really boring for me. It removes all nuances of the combat. It’s not about making it “hard” but making it feel like a game with some depth.

Damage output needs to scale down A LOT more. Survivability needs to come up a bit.

danbuter.2314:

All of these zones should be buffed to compensate for level 80s. Anyone below level 80 should die in one hit, otherwise, it’s too easy!

no one suggested this at all :P

The main problem is at 80 you have armor that gives you three stats, at 14-16 you only had armor that gave you one stat. Because of this downscaled content is easier. I personally like it, when working on 100% completion it is nice to be able to roll through an area rather than having to spend more time than necessary.

Like someone above said, the downscaling seems lopsided – your defense and health take a much bigger hit than your damage does, and while it should be a bit easier, it’s arguably too easy to kill mobs when downscaled. I’m curious whether or not it’s intended.

Maybe downscaling should flat out remove the third / second stats on exotics.

We definitely don’t want it to be harder for lowbies. And taking the gear off isn’t good, inventory space isn’t exactly free :p

Or maybe there’s nothing wrong with the current situation. You guys might want to consider adventuring in Orr or other level 80 areas. Oh wait, that would be too hard!

Veldan.4637:

I found that armor/HP downscales too much but dmg not enough. In low lvl zones I kill much faster than in high level zones, to the point that I can oneshot things constantly with at least 4 different skills, but the mobs also kill me faster than high level ones do.

You have to take into consideration gears vs content too.

You are working with pieces that have 3 stats where as at this level gear have 1 stat. So your stats get reduced, yes , but you still have gear that give you power, precision , toughness (for exemple). The level 16 will have only some power on his gear.

Second you have more traits then the lvl 16. Meaning you get more benefit from it, stat wise and effect wise. For i lose conditions easy, i can dodge roll and heal , i can shout more often, meaning the content is much more easier.

Third, you have acces to more utilities. At this level you have 1 or 2 utility slot and not all of them are unlocked yet and often , you were still learning your class, you did mistakes. Like when i was on my ranger i was doing Sic’em + jaguar stealth which broke my sic’em without me knowing. Again there costing me time.

Fourth , you have upgrades and consumables. At level 14, my pistols were unsocketed, my armor dont have runes in it nor upgrades. I got some trash food for the +xp buff that i paid like 5 coppers a piece. I dont have maintenance oil on, i dont have the best food and i dont have exotic ruby in my armors and jewelry, i think you dont even have an amulet before 20 and a backpiece until 30?.

Put a level 40 or around, in full yellow of his level ,with seals and food and you wont see a difference at this point ,because his gear is on par with the content.

Where does Arena net draw the line? They should put fixed stats but at the same time, youll still run food and stuff, should you be more nerfed to the point where your food doenst give you any boost anymore?

danbuter.2314:

Or maybe there’s nothing wrong with the current situation. You guys might want to consider adventuring in Orr or other level 80 areas. Oh wait, that would be too hard!

I have been playing this game for a long time and yes I have been to the level 80 areas- in fact I still play there.

Down leveling is one of the most awesome mechanics in this game and it essentially opens the entire game to you once you hit 80- it goes perfectly with the idea that the whole game is end game.
This is why I believe we are addressing the issue that it doesn’t seem to be quite working

darkchicken.8692:

Veldan.4637:

I found that armor/HP downscales too much but dmg not enough. In low lvl zones I kill much faster than in high level zones, to the point that I can oneshot things constantly with at least 4 different skills, but the mobs also kill me faster than high level ones do.

You have to take into consideration gears vs content too.

You are working with pieces that have 3 stats where as at this level gear have 1 stat. So your stats get reduced, yes , but you still have gear that give you power, precision , toughness (for exemple). The level 16 will have only some power on his gear.

Second you have more traits then the lvl 16. Meaning you get more benefit from it, stat wise and effect wise. For i lose conditions easy, i can dodge roll and heal , i can shout more often, meaning the content is much more easier.

Third, you have acces to more utilities. At this level you have 1 or 2 utility slot and not all of them are unlocked yet and often , you were still learning your class, you did mistakes. Like when i was on my ranger i was doing Sic’em + jaguar stealth which broke my sic’em without me knowing. Again there costing me time.

Fourth , you have upgrades and consumables. At level 14, my pistols were unsocketed, my armor dont have runes in it nor upgrades. I got some trash food for the +xp buff that i paid like 5 coppers a piece. I dont have maintenance oil on, i dont have the best food and i dont have exotic ruby in my armors and jewelry, i think you dont even have an amulet before 20 and a backpiece until 30?.

Put a level 40 or around, in full yellow of his level ,with seals and food and you wont see a difference at this point ,because his gear is on par with the content.

Where does Arena net draw the line? They should put fixed stats but at the same time, youll still run food and stuff, should you be more nerfed to the point where your food doenst give you any boost anymore?

You make very good points and I didn’t even consider consumables in my experiment since I don’t use any on my 80’s

The 3 stats are also something I didn’t think about and I just bought white 80’s, I will have to try again with white basic level gear

I already know that the traits and utils make a huge difference and I believe that that is where most of the power comes from for an 80

Another thing that occured to me is simply player skill and familiarity with the content. I remember when I just started how I had to learn literally everything I don’t think about much anymore.

I really realised this when I was playing with my friend this weekend.
He had never touched the game and he was having trouble just panning his camera, moving, fighting and dodging and trying to figure out what his skills do. All at the same time.

So yes, it is a very difficult thing to balance, that does not change the fact that it needs it if the game will truly be open at 80

I suspect I am not as good a player as some of those posting. I don’t want the lower levels as hard on my downscaled character as the higher levels, or almost as hard, I go back to the lower levels when I need a break from the difficulty of the higher levels

Mungrul.9358:

Yeah, I’d like the challenge to be consistent across the board too. I’d like the game to be just as difficult in Queensdale as it is for the same character in Orr. Maybe a little advantage, but nowhere near the face-roll it is now.

This removes all need for a levelling system…

…I like it.