Guild Wars 2

Just gonna pop in to say that i agree with op, this change does not seem good. Yeah it was annoying when my leap skill was shorter because chill/cripple but stopping someone from running away was so much more satisfying.

Linnael.1069:

Julie Yann.5379:

eyestrain.3056:

Sometimes I keep both flesh wurm and spec walk on my bar as well as offhand warhorn when I know i’m going to be dodging zergs. This change isn’t so much about my necro being able to run away- its about my necro having 0 chance to get any class outside of mesmer or another necro in combat and keep them from just peacing out into the sunset since I have no real way to catch up to them without chill/cripple/immob. It really makes the hyped up 100% chill time for new spec seem kind of pointless. Yeah, it makes footspeed slower and increases cooldown but my days as a wvw solo roamer that’s able to kill anything before it runs away seem numbered.

I believe this the what brought on this change. 100% chill uptime would be crazy OP vs melee classes that don’t have access to teleports.

You are so misinformed its incredible. First of all I haven’t seen a single necro roaming without flesh wurm, spectral walk, or warhorn on their bar. Claiming that this somehow results in them being “mobile” is laughable.

100% chill uptime is easily maintainable on a huge range of builds as is. Around launch there was a load of hype around chillmaxing eles/rangers and whatnot. Then we all figured out how badly it sucks, and so few people run it that you’re now talking about it like some sort of hypothetical.

Don’t ever use the term “melee classes” again. Thats godkitten embarrassing.

Even with every juke available to necro, no it is not mobile. Someone above claimed could be mobile and I responded. With wurm, spec walk and warhorn (which i don’t always run- i often drop wurm and/or warhorn) I can juke zergs as long as they aren’t thirsty af and pull myself out of skirmishes that have gone pear shaped. It’s more limited than any other class (maybe not guardian or mesmer if they arent running leap/JI) but it does offer a limited, long cd teleport up cliffs/out of the center of combat.

Also melee class

Where can I read about these changes

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Basandra Skye.4031:

Galeskyring.9617:

Hopefully arenanet will listen to its community and not go through this this specific change, all else in what the discussed there is fine, nice refreshing changes but this bit towards cripple and chill I hope they do not go forward with.

You mean NOT listen to the highly vocal tiny minority on the forums?

FYI, immobilization was the counterplay to gap closer skills. Cant use those skills when you’re locked from moving at all.

Let me guess, Thief or Warrior main.

Necro mains are almost universally against this change. Mesmers and Eles are probably ambivalent, Engineers, Guardians, and Rangers likely find it fair, and Thieves and Warrior mains seem to think it’s a fantastic idea.

Unsurprisingly, this lines up with how good or bad this change is to the particular profession. Warriors have no chills and few cripples, but tons of dashes/leaps. Of course they want this change to go through! Necros, meanwhile, rely on cripples and chill to have any hope of keeping someone in combat with them and have no dashes or leaps themselves. This change is harsh, harsh nerf to the profession.

My 3 mains are guardian, ranger, engineer. From the different perspectives: guardian I won’t be affected much. Ranger = crips. Engi = chill. All three have leaps that could be advantaged by the changes… But I still loathe the concept of them. Logically it just makes NO sense to me.

Aside from: mistform, rocket boots, rifle jump, and things involving wings. (“Winged” skills should be helped by swiftness).

Purely from a logic standpoint, I consider leaps in 3 categories:
leg leaps = crippled, chilled, swift should affect distance.
Tech leaps & ‘other’ = unaffected by all
‘Winged’ leaps = swiftness only

mrauls.6519:

Where can I read about these changes

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-changes-dotsanddashes/

To be fair, the engineer is probably one of the few classes totally unaffected by this change. I mean, they even have a movement skill that cures chill, immobilization, AND cripple all at once. No other class has that sort of “kitten you and the dead horse you rode on” skill afaik.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Linnael.1069:

Most ele players hate it too. effectively yet another RTL nerf compared to all the other skills, and eles are pretty limited on soft cc outside of chill.

I haven’t seen a single person in game with an attitude towards this change better than “i don’t care i play war lol.” You can’t just bring out the vocal minority argument when the people in favor are an even smaller minority with worse arguments

Isn’t RTL already functioning this way, though?

They threw a bunch of heavy penalties on RTL back in the day because it had this functionality. Now everything else is getting it and there’s been no indication that anything else will be getting nerfed or RTL will be getting buffed back, so RTL is just going to be weaker than every other mobility skill for no reason.

It would be lovely to get a dev post but lets be real, how often do they ever seem to post on topics? its like tripping over a diamond on the beach if this topic isn’t about account trouble or some weird in game or site bug.

But still it would be nice if they listen, I’m seeing far more ‘please don’t!’ posts on the forums then ‘yay gimme gimme this has so been needed’ posts.

Trust between a game community and the game’s Devs in any online game is essential.

Anet needs to trust its community because we’ve often trusted them and lets face it lately they’ve started making more then ‘questionable’ choices.

A great many of use in gw2 are not first timers, this isn’t our first game, thus we have the wisdom and experiance of past online/mmos we have played and know if such an act is unwise.

examples

A: game is sold as a race game with cool mods you must skillfully use to get the edge later devs of said race game nerf/remove said mods used for skillful play and didn’t listen to their community that it was a bad idea then the game dies cause what it was loved for and sold for was taken back.

B: same race game sold for the same reason but when said devs try to remove the mods used for skillful racing they listened to their community backed off and found some other appropriate way to change the mods instead of out right peeling it essentially out of the game in turn gaining community trust and ensuring more lifespan of the game.

This is fact of any and all online based gameplay, if game developers lose the trust of their respective community why would said community stay? we’ve all seen it in the past, some bad idea update/expac or such is installed against the wisdom of its community then the game loses players and in some case so many that the game dies.

I am totally sure cripple/chill can be edited without straight up flat lining its potential into nothing, any skill that’s more or less over powered can simple A: remove the condi or B: alter the condi’s duration/intensity so it’s brought in line.

Not to be anti-rev or anything (cause i do like it and want to play it.) but lets be brutaly honest please, banish enchantment is a legend skill for the condi legend, 1 of those said skills is beyond broken and is about to get worse if not balanced by release why is this you ask? because its a huge heavy confusion spam skill. In the last beta i stood at a mob and maxed confu stacks by just spamming this ability cause it has no cooldown and low energy cost. Confusion is about to get an over time ping for damage like torment, so why is cripple and chill being nerfed int he grand scheme of things? Am I asking this skill not do confusion? NO! am I asking for them not to change confusion to a dot? NO! I am asking they wisely balance problem skills directly instead of simply nerfing something at its source where it ends up going bad.

If anet feels some leaps are not doing what they should don’t nueter their counters to death, maybe give them a purge to 1 of 2? stop nerfing before thinking please, even ask the community outright for ideas if you must, we can figure a better balance skill out instead of just killing off something that for YEARS has been perfectly fine as is and don’t say it wasn’t intended actions or results that could have been fixed at any time in any update!

Fermi.2409:

MrWubzy.3587:

I stand by my point. Learn to adapt, and don’t complain until you’ve actually seen/played the changes in action.

And again, you don’t need to play with the changes to know that they’ll result in a net reduction of skill required to play the game at its higher levels.

Regardless. Play around with the new changes and adapt accordingly. We’ve done this several times already, and people got used to it. It’s how the game works: the meta flows and changes come, regardless if we want them or not.

Fermi.2409:

MrWubzy.3587:

I stand by my point. Learn to adapt, and don’t complain until you’ve actually seen/played the changes in action.

And again, you don’t need to play with the changes to know that they’ll result in a net reduction of skill required to play the game at its higher levels.

If it is making it harder for you to catch and lock down somebody isn’t it increasing the amount of skill needed?

Julie Yann.5379:

Fermi.2409:

MrWubzy.3587:

I stand by my point. Learn to adapt, and don’t complain until you’ve actually seen/played the changes in action.

And again, you don’t need to play with the changes to know that they’ll result in a net reduction of skill required to play the game at its higher levels.

If it is making it harder for you to catch and lock down somebody isn’t it increasing the amount of skill needed?

Not even remotely, professions that already are a nightmare to catch now will be impossible to catch then, professions that have a hard time escaping now will never escape then.

Currently you can try repeat TRY to hold people down using cripple/chill but with this change that becomes 100% impossible, it nullifies the purpose of cripple and halves the function of chill.

but after this change there won’t be any trying anymore it just will not happen, and all the fun moments the layers of combat has because of how it currently works will be gone in favor of a more slated dumbed down (lazy) way of fighting that reduces skill and increases gaps between certain professions.

Necro players easily see the red light here cause they have serious mobility issues thus have to rely on either of these condi to control enemy’s and try to kill them. Not to mention their HOT spec aka the reaper is getting its teeth pulled with this change. and the reaper was made clearly dependent on chill to catch people.

I was contemplating a few descent chill builds with varying decrees of condi, power etc. Now I think I will be sticking with either my current death shroud build in WvW or in PvE, a reaper shroud build based upon clearing mobs quickly.

Either way If these changes go live I will avoid chill as I do now. And some have said it will be no big deal, but if I am having problems with enemies resetting now what hope do I have when they can just leap away and heal every fight? Attrition is a two sided coin requiring someone to fight and will not work when your opponent can escape at any time.

I agree! There is absolutely no need for this change!

I am not going to comment on the merits of the changes, but I would like to point out to those suggesting that players wait to express their concerns that waiting until development of a game element is complete before commenting can mean that we are stuck with broken, poorly conceived, or unpopular implementation for years.

It would be foolhardy to not speak up as early in the process as possible.

Here’s hoping todays livestream gives a reason to sigh in relief.

its my impression or the class that gains mostly with this is the warriors that use weapon skill to run away?

If most skills required a target to be casted well, that would be nice.

easy fix that would make necromancers welcome in groups-
and that is to change the REAPER CHILL to GREATER CHILL.

This would allow the the REAPERS CHILL to be the ONLY chill htat is unaffected by the incoming snare nerf.

thank you all for agreeing.
My candidacy for Necro team lead and developer are awaiting your votes!

punahou.3986:

easy fix that would make necromancers welcome in groups-
and that is to change the REAPER CHILL to GREATER CHILL.

This would allow the the REAPERS CHILL to be the ONLY chill htat is unaffected by the incoming snare nerf.

thank you all for agreeing.
My candidacy for Necro team lead and developer are awaiting your votes!

Ha, that’d go over like a lead balloon. They said torment was inspired by the necromancer too, supposed to be sort of a punishment for people running away, now its gone to mesmer/…..actually now that I think of it, mesmers have been getting a lot of things that were supposed to help or seemed based off of necromancer. The new time rift thing seems based off of what the first death shroud was going to be, there is torment I just mentioned, they are now getting wells that seem to put ours to shame…ANET!!!!!’

I’ll assume you mean neuter.

I for one am definitely concerned about these changes. This is going to be a massive indirect buff to classes like warrior and elementalist in PvP

Basandra Skye.4031:

To be fair, the engineer is probably one of the few classes totally unaffected by this change. I mean, they even have a movement skill that cures chill, immobilization, AND cripple all at once. No other class has that sort of “kitten you and the dead horse you rode on” skill afaik.

Engineers are affected by the other half of the change, where swiftness and Slick Shoes’ super speed no longer increases the range of these skills as well. No longer will they be able to make leaps that are the envy of all with Super Speed Rocket Boots.

“Spectral Walk: This skill can no longer be activated while in mid-air.”
rip roaming necro